Recently, the community manager of a well-known online franchise blasted game fans as "stifling the creativity of game developers" with their constant barrage of complaints. In this week's column, MMORPG.com Lead Writer Bill Murphy analyzes the charges leveled by the community manager and offers a few thoughts along the way. Check it out and then add your reactions to the mix in the comments below.

I suppose the argument could be made that developers feel pressured to cater to these loud and often obnoxious vocal minority, and to be honest if that’s the case than those developers deserve to feel creatively held back. True creativity in any medium takes brass balls, and if you’re too busy worrying about what forum member “L33tHaxx0r” has to say about one of your design choices than you probably don’t deserve to be making games in the first place.

Read more of Bill Murphy's column, Are Cranky Players the Problem?.

If the Devs listended to forum whiners, many of their games would be better. We forum whiners are the subscribers who actually care about the game enough to help it get better. When the forum quiets down then you know you are doing something right as people are too busy having fun to go complain on the forums. its the silent majority of sheeple that are the real problem here accepting whatever kill 10 rats quests the devs give them.

Originally posted by mCalvert

If the Devs listended to forum whiners, many of their games would be better. We forum whiners are the subscribers who actually care about the game enough to help it get better. When the forum quiets down then you know you are doing something right as people are too busy having fun to go complain on the forums. its the silent majority of sheeple that are the real problem here accepting whatever kill 10 rats quests the devs give them.

Don't flatter yourself.

The vocal majority should never be listened to.  All you end up with is crap.

forums like this are the perfect example.  The majority of people here simply shit on anything that comes out that doesn't perfectly cater to their specific wants in a game.  And anyone who says anything nice is either a fanboy or being paid.

Originally posted by mCalvert

If the Devs listended to forum whiners, many of their games would be better. We forum whiners are the subscribers who actually care about the game enough to help it get better. When the forum quiets down then you know you are doing something right as people are too busy having fun to go complain on the forums. its the silent majority of sheeple that are the real problem here accepting whatever kill 10 rats quests the devs give them.

 Some people just want to feel important, I guess. *shrug*

Just like with everything else, there are no absolutes. Sometimes devs should listen to the whine, sometimes they should just ignore it; it all depends on context.

However; blaming whiny players for the lack of creativity in games is flat-out retarded. The lack of creativity comes from developers wanting to capitalize on existing success through the Magic Of Cloning, or from investors being unwilling to take a risk.

Originally posted by mCalvert

If the Devs listended to forum whiners, many of their games would be better. We forum whiners are the subscribers who actually care about the game enough to help it get better. When the forum quiets down then you know you are doing something right as people are too busy having fun to go complain on the forums. its the silent majority of sheeple that are the real problem here accepting whatever kill 10 rats quests the devs give them.

I think the problem is that most forum whiners assume that they are always right and represent the majority of players which is actually a rare thing. Some of them act like gamer divas which has to be pleased or else...

One of the success of Wow is the ability based on its subscription numbers to middle finger forum whiners and actually take decisions based on a less noisy players feedback.

I have seen forumnites going into rampages and crusades to destroy the main evil of this universe aka, the developer company that pissed them off. Many of them are actually jumpers that see the unrealeased game as the mesiah and the recently released game as the biggest disappointment.

So I agree with Bill, feedback is useful but without diva postures and blackmails of quitting and other manipulations usually perform by the heavy forum whiners.

Originally posted by PyreSpirit

Originally posted by mCalvert

If the Devs listended to forum whiners, many of their games would be better. We forum whiners are the subscribers who actually care about the game enough to help it get better. When the forum quiets down then you know you are doing something right as people are too busy having fun to go complain on the forums. its the silent majority of sheeple that are the real problem here accepting whatever kill 10 rats quests the devs give them.

 Some people just want to feel important, I guess. *shrug*

Just like with everything else, there are no absolutes. Sometimes devs should listen to the whine, sometimes they should just ignore it; it all depends on context.

 

However; blaming whiny players for the lack of creativity in games is flat-out retarded. The lack of creativity comes from developers wanting to capitalize on existing success through the Magic Of Cloning, or from investors being unwilling to take a risk.

When you have so many whiny ass bitches, and no matter what new creative idea comes out there's always a group screaming and crying and shitting all over it... how exactly does that promote creativity?

Originally posted by mmogawd

Originally posted by PyreSpirit

Originally posted by mCalvert

If the Devs listended to forum whiners, many of their games would be better. We forum whiners are the subscribers who actually care about the game enough to help it get better. When the forum quiets down then you know you are doing something right as people are too busy having fun to go complain on the forums. its the silent majority of sheeple that are the real problem here accepting whatever kill 10 rats quests the devs give them.

 Some people just want to feel important, I guess. *shrug*

Just like with everything else, there are no absolutes. Sometimes devs should listen to the whine, sometimes they should just ignore it; it all depends on context.

 

However; blaming whiny players for the lack of creativity in games is flat-out retarded. The lack of creativity comes from developers wanting to capitalize on existing success through the Magic Of Cloning, or from investors being unwilling to take a risk.

When you have so many whiny ass bitches, and no matter what new creative idea comes out there's always a group screaming and crying and shitting all over it... how exactly does that promote creativity?

 It doesn't promote creativity. It doesn't stifle it either. It's completely, 100% neutral to the creative process. Anybody who knows anything about working with people should fully expect a certain base-level of whinging, and be fully ready to ignore it when necessary, and work with it when necessary.

So once again, blaming it on 'whiny players' is a retarded excuse, when the source of the problem is the developers or the investors being unable or unwilling to come up with something unique.

Originally posted by mmogawd

Originally posted by PyreSpirit

Originally posted by mCalvert

If the Devs listended to forum whiners, many of their games would be better. We forum whiners are the subscribers who actually care about the game enough to help it get better. When the forum quiets down then you know you are doing something right as people are too busy having fun to go complain on the forums. its the silent majority of sheeple that are the real problem here accepting whatever kill 10 rats quests the devs give them.

 Some people just want to feel important, I guess. *shrug*

Just like with everything else, there are no absolutes. Sometimes devs should listen to the whine, sometimes they should just ignore it; it all depends on context.

 

However; blaming whiny players for the lack of creativity in games is flat-out retarded. The lack of creativity comes from developers wanting to capitalize on existing success through the Magic Of Cloning, or from investors being unwilling to take a risk.

When you have so many whiny ass bitches, and no matter what new creative idea comes out there's always a group screaming and crying and shitting all over it... how exactly does that promote creativity?

they all want WoW clones

The thing is... You will NEVER please everyone..

Don't throw WoW subscriber numbers at me either, that doesn't make it "right" for everyone.. It is obvious that the sheeple effect had a role in that ("Well, my friend played it and it was my first time sooo..")

When these companies learn that you ONLY want the people genuinely ineterested in your product, NOT the people who play follow the leader and make decisions based on who else is playing the game..

When EvE came out, it was not seeking old eq players.. Not even AO players.. It wanted its OWN players.. It started off slow, but once they attracted all the people they wanted to attract, the sheeple naturally wide eyed it and many joined in (Yes, AFTER the launch of WoW in 04, however EvE came out slowly in 03)

Darkfall... Everyone ripped darkfall a new one on these forums when it arrived... News... It is still fighting the good fight... People (mainly PvP based guilds) enjoy the game now.. It has a stable sub base (just like EvE in its infancy) and chances are it will only grow from here..

If these companies will stop trying to make a game for EVERYONE, then EVERYONE will not have reason to argue or complain.. I know, they probably will anyway (it was soo funny at how many PvE specialists and elitist were actually COMPLAINING about Darkfall and how stupid it was, like it was made for them..), but these Devs just need to /ignore some of these idiots and just focus on making their artistic vision a reality first and foremost..

So that's his excuse of producing the worse Call of Duty experience up to date ? I suppose fact they delievered one of the most expensive, buggy shooters of the year 2010 has everything to do with fact that some people refused to buy or play that garbage...you SIR ARE DELUSIONAL.

Maybe if developers stopped releasing games early with a lack of content and missing features that have been in games for years like an auction house, player housing or a real crafting system we would not have to whine so much.

Players are not cranky!

We players are CUSTOMERS...and just like any customer doing BUSINESS we expect to recieve what was advertised, for the product to be in good working order, and of good quality.

Unfortunately, most MMORPGs are of poor quality, don't meet advertised features, and do not work properly.

Lets face it, if most MMORPGs where single player games, i.e. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, the MMORPGs would have dismal reviews. But because the games are MMOs, there is some sort od warped standard that we customers are supposed to accept and expect flawed products.

Just look at most of the MMOs advertising on this website...most are junk.

In addition, we customers purchase a product and ALSO subscribe for a monthly fee to play games that the game designers created not to be fun...but to decieve you into thinking its fun and then baiting you with carrot and the stick forever.

This is why most players only subscribe for a month at a time. It is only in rare cases such as EVE, WoW, EQ/EQ2, etc. that you see any subscription longevity.

Thus, maybe us cranky customers should whine less and vote with our dollars.

But despite that it is our right to be cranky because we made our bed and now we have to sleep in it. If we would all take a step back and not impulse buy games that players report suck...or better yet wait for Gamespot to review the game before buying it, we will all be better off.

Spending even 1 month on a sub, and buying the product only to find out it sucks still makes the MMO money to keep it going. Just  look at WAR as an example.

Originally posted by UnleadedRev

Players are not cranky!

We players are CUSTOMERS...and just like any customer doing BUSINESS we expect to recieve what was advertised, for the product to be in good working order, and of good quality.

Unfortunately, most MMORPGs are of poor quality, don't meet advertised features, and do not work properly.

Lets face it, if most MMORPGs where single player games, i.e. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, the MMORPGs would have dismal reviews. But because the games are MMOs, there is some sort od warped standard that we customers are supposed to accept and expect flawed products.

Just look at most of the MMOs advertising on this website...most are junk.

In addition, we customers purchase a product and ALSO subscribe for a monthly fee to play games that the game designers created not to be fun...but to decieve you into thinking its fun and then baiting you with carrot and the stick forever.

This is why most players only subscribe for a month at a time. It is only in rare cases such as EVE, WoW, EQ/EQ2, etc. that you see any subscription longevity.

Thus, maybe us cranky customers should whine less and vote with our dollars.

But despite that it is our right to be cranky because we made our bed and now we have to sleep in it. If we would all take a step back and not impulse buy games that players report suck...or better yet wait for Gamespot to review the game before buying it, we will all be better off.

Spending even 1 month on a sub, and buying the product only to find out it sucks still makes the MMO money to keep it going. Just  look at WAR as an example.

Yeah, just look at WoW, such a waste of my time and money. I want it all back....

Developers listen to much to buisness developers - that is the problem

When game sole purpose is to maximise profits - you have problem.

And than players complain, and they blame players ...

Laughable.

I'm part of the vocal minority. Devs should not listen to me for voting purposes. Instead they should poll players, in game. I might post on official forums in ways that are helpful for the detailed solutions, but better distributed polls are better.

I think the big issue is that developers, more often than not, don't really have a clear sense of what king of game they're making. Blizzard started off on the right foot when WoW released, saying that if players burned through the content and reached level cap quickly, that was their problem. The shift came, I believe, when Vivendi, having a taste of the kind of money their new cash cow could bring in, wasn't so enthusiastic about losing those subscribers. Once the focus was lost, the game transformed, gradually enough that people simply rolled with the changes.

Right now, I'm watching an upcoming game flail around trying to keep a vocal segment of the fanbase happy by shifting focus and making changes that are affecting the entire game. Unlike Turbine, who stuck to their guns and said, "this is the game we're making" with LOTRO, this developer is trying to be all things to all people and there's plenty of reason to doubt that they will end up pleasing anyone.

Odd, we've always been told Developers never pay any attention to whiny forum posters such as us, yet now one of them says we're to blame somehow?

I can assure you that if some developers had listened to some of my posts we'd have  more variety in the available pool of MMORPG's yet the endless march of WOW clones clearly shows that its not my viewpoint they're catering to.  (not saying mine's better, but you can't blame me for the current crop of games)

I agree with OP, Developers have to decide what sort of game they're going to make and go out and do it.  Sure, they should look for constructive community feedback, and try to get it in the early design (looking at Mythics initial design decision to focus combat around BG's instead of open RVR in WAR, and later trying to reverse themselves)

When Devs Don't listen to the community input, you get a game like Shadowrun ended up to be, nothing like canon, or even much fun save for the arena fighter niche. That one a lot of old shadowrun players took personally.

Originally posted by tymothymiche

When Devs Don't listen to the community input, you get a game like Shadowrun ended up to be, nothing like canon, or even much fun save for the arena fighter niche. That one a lot of old shadowrun players took personally.

 That's bollocks.

Something like that isn't a result of 'not listening to community input,' it's a result of a conscious decision to not follow the canon.

It's not like developers are monkies in a cage who  just couldn't comprehend the awesome subtlty of Shadowrun, because it's not that complicated. It's a conscious decision to not follow established canon.

(Though Shadowrun itself was only half-good. The silly magic that they had to shoe-horn in for some inexplicable reason was just ridiculous)

I totally disagree. If you're a competent developer that has a history of at least one successful game, there's no need to listen to the whiners. In fact, there's never a need to listen to the whiners. On the other hand, people who are just adding constructive criticism that bring ideas to the table, might be worth the time. But whiners are never worth the time because of the way they deliver their message.

But again, if you have a job as a lead designer, you should be able to get 90% of the way their without listening to fans.