New contents definitely more fun, but once the only thing you do is Dailies, Weeklies, and Raids...it gets really boring really fast.

And I'm anti-raid system. I only go when I have to, like my guild is missing a ranged DPS. Other than that, I don't even sign-up for it.

Four stinking hours of raid and you get nothing for it most of the time, other a repair bill, that's not just stupidity, it's insanity.

I don't get how people can do this every week.

After getting my old main to 85 in Cata, I found I just didn't have the will to carry on raiding any more. I got my alt to 83 and there it sits. Cancelled the account today. I may be back, but there are a lot of interesting games coming out now.

The MMO mechanics are generally boring for end-game since it is repeated content.

However, it has always been the social aspect that makes people logging in time and time again.

Having the large player-base is a definitely an advantage in this regard since there is a greater chance players will find a group they can engage with.

Except Wrath, I found WoW's endgame to be very enjoyable (except broken C'thun. -.-). But that might have to do with the fact my RL also played so that's all we talked about.

The best "end game" content I ever played was the end of vanilla WoW. Because no one had anything else to do, all we did was roleplay. Our server had an enormous, robust and vital community that was merging stories and playing together and posting on a community site that let us even RP cross-factionally. It was amazing.

And the worst experience was TBC - because not only did the community disperse to go do different things, we couldn't get back together again because of the way the end game "stacked." You had to have keys and move up together - you couldn't just grab a friend who was stepping into a zone for the first time and bring them along if they didn't have their attunements. And by the time you ground your attunements, you never wanted to do that dungeon again anyway, not for friends and not for alts. It wrung all the goodwill that three years of the game had garnered and one day I just logged out in disgust and never logged in again.

In my opinion, not mentioning City of Heroes in this article (and mentioning DCUO, ugh) is a major failing.

City of Heroes has been going strong for six years with a complete lack of "endgame" style endgame. "Gear" drops and can be crafted at any level - very few enhancements require level 50, and those enhancements aren't the absolute best options for most characters anyway. There is one raid in the game, and a bunch of other "instances" (Task/Strike Forces) scattered throughout the leveling process. Sidekicking/exemplaring means you can team up with your friends at any level, so there's no need to play "catch up." And the devs consistently improve/add content at all levels of the game, instead of stacking all the shiny at the level cap.

The only exception to this is the new Incarnate content, which frankly makes me nervous that City of Heroes is finally selling out to the rest of the crappy endgame MMO styles out there.

Sorry, I didn't read it all, most were reiterating former posts, everyone has valid points, and we all agree that gaming can get so boring that we re-roll to add the randomness of a new skill set to get any charge.

But really, the actual thing that seems wrong to me is that the game developers do very little, if anything at all, to engender a sense of "community" that gives a player the incentive to come back for something other than - another level, gaining equipment, that one quest that's a bitch to complete and, endgame.

In subscription games the game makers are content to release only enough content to keep the player paying the sub. In freemium games they are content to release only enough content to keep you grinding hoping that you will finally give in and make purchases over the futility of it all.

People have historically said the ONLY reason they stay so long in a failing or bad game is because of their friends that play.

Yet there is little that the game developers do to allow the players the other side of gaming - being social.

Chat boxes are not enough. How many players pay an extra bit to get decent voice chat in games? Why isn't this a game feature?

Current Guild structure is not enough as it seems to force a rigid system that can end up feeling fascist and prejudicial.

Why do so many games not have dedicated spaces for the individual player to host small gatherings of friends?

Why isn't the entire subject of crafting better integrated into the game economies?

Why aren't private messaging systems in place and bug-free yet?

Player shops? Secure Trading? In-game Currency exchanges?

There is probably more to mention, but this is entirely off the top of my head. ;-D

Regarding content there is one thing I love that not all games have, or, it's restricted and/or made into a coin sink. Treasure finds. I hate the stupid chests and boxes. I just want to explore and find stuff "other folks left behind/lost" randomly. It can be a crap find, a mediocre/somewhat useful item, or real treasure. But, no boxes or chests that require keys to find.

I know that some games have one, maybe two of the above included, but not superbly executed.
There is far too much that is done outside of the game which breaks immersion and makes gaming feel like a real world job.

To my mind the reason that game companies don't include features to create a sense of community is because they don't have to. Every year there is a new "crop" of younglings getting their first job willing to pay for a stunted community solely to pound someone's head in.

Maybe I'm just dreaming, but being online since 1994 I had hopes that eventually the games would get better and fully featured for humans, not atm machines ;-D

Safra

When looking at WoW, its not really skill-based rather than time based content in terms of End Content.

When you look at Raiding, you can do a raid once a week, this stops people farming them, if the restriction was removed im sure hardcore players could get it within a week.

This is why people get frustrated, why gearscore is important, you have to spend soo much time into raiding just to get a weapon and armorset.

Pugs are generally bad for raids since you spend time checking everyone, loose ppl and have to go back to inviting and checking, hours later your ready, and someone needs to go for lunch...

Then the pug does work well, either the dps is low or people just arent pulling there weight and dying silly, or people just not sure what there doing.

Guilds, well its much better depending if you have a group of people who will sign on to a specific time every week, if your not the best raider in the guild or you have bad gear, they might not include you in guild runs.

Anyway about time, yes, time!

One of the biggest annoyances for me was that a raid could take a whole evening up, and i'd probably end up with nothing to show for it. Whereas I could of done something else thats completely boring like mass produce items or make a new alt (thought 8 lvl 80s was enough for me).

Im all up for wasting time, but in a good way, and the current gear treadmill isnt a good way.

For all those poor souls who killed the lich king 20 times, I got the same greens from the quest when cata came out and i had stop playing for 4 months lol ^^ now for good. I see the error of me ways, (p.s. this probably doesnt make much sense as im in need of a good nap!).

Originally posted by Vindicta

Hmm, couldn't edit, but it cut off my last comment. In response to your last quote, I meant to say:

That's why it's so important to play with others - so you don't burn out on grind. I'm lucky that my fiance is as big a geek as me and loves MMOs - our experiences are defined by us playing together, experiencing content both themepark and sometimes otherwise, and remembering all the silly things that happen.

Vindicta, how would it sound to you if I said "That's why it's so important to play alone - so dealing with others like you have to in raiding doesn't grind you down so fast."

What you said may be true for you, but it isn't fundamentally true, and you are wrong to state it like it is. For me, one of the biggest problems with raiding is that I am forced to play with people I don't want to play with (I'm not going to get in to the "Multiplayer" argument here). It makes it MORE of a grind, for me, not less of one.

I'm not trying to pick on you, just get you to see there are other ways to look at these things, and why it's a good idea to speak in terms of what you like and not project onto others. You are not me, and what each of us want can be quite all right for each of us, and quite different in comparison.

;)

I still remember the feeling of hitting the wall in World of Wacraft back when the game was just Vanilla.  Before the PvP system was even implemented, before there was much of anything to do outside of leveling really.  It wasn’t the first game I’d played, but it was the first I remember getting to the cap in and wanting to keep going.  I “Ding!”-ed in Guild Chat, got my congrats, and that was that.  Almost immediately, I felt the confusion of “what do I do now?” 

There's no end game in titles since 2004's WoW release because (and I don't blame you rather, I blame the advertising dept at Mythic) you along with many other people never played or were able to enjoy Dark Age of Camelot.  Titles such as Age of Conan, WoW, EQ 2, Rifts, Warhammer, are all based on 2 or zero faction grind fests.  Had you played Dark Age, along with many others, than the bar of expectation would be raised to meet her qualities.  Why make 3 faction games with 44 race class combinations when you can fool the public and pretend we can only do a handful of both and copy past them to a second faction?  Feed the players gear grinding dungeon quests until they are blue in the face (Warcraft).  Or, make a graphically updated version of the same (Rifts) and do it again.

God forbid we bring back Dark Age of Camelot.  That's like bringing honor classes and words with more than 2 syllables to the masses.

Anyway, the games nowadays have no realm pride, let alone players that spend much time reading the new fake lore of a given title.  Everyone is stuck in an A vs A pvp model (same classes/races vs each other) or A vs B model (2 faction pvp).

When, as a player, you get to be a part of the driving force of your culture - and get to hold her honor in the field of battle against other like minded cultures, then - THEN  you have something to do end game.  Your castles are under siege!  Go out and defend your realm or suffer the consequences of your greatest relics being stolen from your people!

May the gods bless the memory of Dark Age of Camelot.   May a wealthy buyer come along some day and free her from her bonds: those slavers who are employed to promote Warhammer and likewise refuse. 

/my 2 cents.

Great article. I completely despise the gear grind and games which emphasize it.

Okay the problem as I see with many of these games isn't the game but the players. Hey lets rush to cap then bitch about not having anything to do... I have a suggestion step away from the damn game and enjoy some RL activities for a change. Been playing my last MMO for over 3 years, yes its a theme park game, and still love it. I attribute much of this to my willingness to enjoy the quests, because I read them - crazy I know, I take time to enjoy the world in which I am playing and not rushing through it. I may play several days in a row for 3-4 hours but I will also go days without ever logging in.

All of you guys bitching, including the article writer, all create your own misery and I have no sympathy for any of ya.

Originally posted by xBludx

After getting my old main to 85 in Cata, I found I just didn't have the will to carry on raiding any more. I got my alt to 83 and there it sits. Cancelled the account today. I may be back, but there are a lot of interesting games coming out now.

I did the same exact thing.  I had quit WoW during Wrath during that time when they introduced that Argent champion raid due to boredom.  Over Christmas break someone gave me a best buy gift card, so I said what the hey, I'll go pick up Cataclysm.  I played it for a total of two weeks, getting my main to 85 and an alt to 82.  Once I hit 85 on my main....I literally played about two days after that....and haven't gone back since.  Listening to my guild talk about how they needed to do some heroic and grind out some reputaion so they could do some raid just gave me a sickly feeling in my stomach.  I can't do this anymore!

Well said article that many of us have the same opinion on.

I liked raiding purely for the sake of progressing through content that our guild hasn't done before, gear loot was just a secondary bonus. But now that I don't have the time for it, its either continue progressing(lvling) or quit.

If the raidleader says "Ok boys, this is now on farm status" I give a sigh of regret.

There comes a time in every MMO that I've played recently (luckily Im picking up on it sooner and sooner. Rift's was in beta) where I realize I don't care about end game. And if I don't care about the supposed goal... why am I even playing? I like alts (Alot) but if a game has grindy or boring end game I lose alot of intrest in playing the rest of it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way, so having interesting end game and character progression beyond the level cap will bring in and keep alot more players I bet.

Personally the best end game to me is the game going "Good Job! Now make another character with X and Y bonuses!" It's like New game + online. New classes, new or altered races... at LEAST the ability to skip the first 10 or so levels that are designed to introduce new players to the game and would be redundant for you. (although I think the Death Knight starting out so close to max level in WoW is taking it a bit too far)

Finally with regards to the "Make a new main" endgame process, a game with varied and interesting starting areas (Not to mention plenty more quests than necessary to level as you go through the whole game) are, imo, another component of "end game". I hate that in Rift (Sorry, but its the only themepark MMO I've played lately) if I want to make a 2nd Defiant or guardian the story is EXACTLY the same with absolutely no difference. Not even class or race specific quests... or at least not many that I noticed.

Anyway, I've been playing alot of sandboxes recently because of this realization, at least!

Never could understand the concept of an end game in an MMO...

MMO = Continuous/Persistent, seamless world.  Go figure.

Originally posted by Feycat

 

City of Heroes has been going strong for six years with a complete lack of "endgame" style endgame. "Gear" drops and can be crafted at any level - very few enhancements require level 50, and those enhancements aren't the absolute best options for most characters anyway. There is one raid in the game, and a bunch of other "instances" (Task/Strike Forces) scattered throughout the leveling process. Sidekicking/exemplaring means you can team up with your friends at any level, so there's no need to play "catch up." And the devs consistently improve/add content at all levels of the game, instead of stacking all the shiny at the level cap.

The only exception to this is the new Incarnate content, which frankly makes me nervous that City of Heroes is finally selling out to the rest of the crappy endgame MMO styles out there.

You aren't the only one worried.