Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by AndyPreston
Am I misunderstanding this, Im not getting why this discounts EvE?

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Valid objection could be technical reasons. Direct control over your avatar and having your ship following predictable trajectory are two very different things and have significatnt impact on performance.

 Its true that in EVE you don't control your ship via ASWD buttons, but you can directly change flight paths, adjust orbits and manage your flight path. It is the ability to that kind of manuevering that separates the elite players from the regular players. In battles where it is thousands of players in combat the ability to deftly fly in the combat zone that can make or break fights. I've seen video where a skillfully superior force can overwhelm a force the outnumbers them 4 or even 5 to 1.

Originally posted by Axehilt

I like when combat is an interesting match of wits and skill with my opponent.  Completely different from what you find in DF/EVE.

I have been, at times, completely awestruck by the skill of some opponents and friends in PVP in EVE.  The knowledge of the game, quick thinking, actions under pressure, and sheer superiority against oppenents in ships that should have won has convinced me EVE takes an incredible amount of skill to be good at the PVP.

Saying that EVE takes no skill or wits in pvp combat is a redicilous opinion showing a marked unfamiliarity with that side of the game, or the game in general.

I've been in several even numbered fights, be it one versus one, or similar small fleets and above.  I have never thought to myself that the other player won due to them grinding more isk.  I have also never felt that the fight was pre-determined.  I have felt that it was determined by my or my opponents mistakes during the battle.

Also, fleets can and have often killed other fleets larger in number, within reason.  And before you come back and say "But what if they have hundereds more than you?!" I will simply say that were it WoW, Aion, or any other fantasy game where your group was outnumbered by hundereds, you too would lose.

You also forgot that the thread title is not "Best large-scale PVP" but is, in part, "Largest scale PvP".  It is barely debatable.  EVE has battles larger than other games have on their entire shard.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Best large-scale PVP: Planetside

Best PVP: I find the best PVP in LOL currently (and in the past from FPSes, fighting games, and RTSes.)

Personally I feel it's sort of a joke to call it "PVP" when fights are completely pre-determined like they are in DF or EVE, where there's no interesting decisions to be made during the fight.  All of the important decisions are made before the fight, and tend to be so abstract or bland that they're not very interesting (basically (a) mass more friends, and/or (b) accumulate more wealth/progression.)

But some people like the zerg and grind.

I like when combat is an interesting match of wits and skill with my opponent.  Completely different from what you find in DF/EVE.

 Planetside was pretty good. I hope they make a sequel soon.

Originally posted by Styij

 Planetside was pretty good. I hope they make a sequel soon.

I think they are - some screenshots have popped up here and there.  Hopefully it's fun, I'd probably give it a shot.

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Originally posted by dragonbrand

 Its true that in EVE you don't control your ship via ASWD buttons, but you can directly change flight paths, adjust orbits and manage your flight path. It is the ability to that kind of manuevering that separates the elite players from the regular players. In battles where it is thousands of players in combat the ability to deftly fly in the combat zone that can make or break fights. I've seen video where a skillfully superior force can overwhelm a force the outnumbers them 4 or even 5 to 1.

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I am not talking about game play but technical differences...

Is it still worth to start playing darkfall?

Originally posted by kadepsyson

I have been, at times, completely awestruck by the skill of some opponents and friends in PVP in EVE.  The knowledge of the game, quick thinking, actions under pressure, and sheer superiority against oppenents in ships that should have won has convinced me EVE takes an incredible amount of skill to be good at the PVP.

 

Saying that EVE takes no skill or wits in pvp combat is a redicilous opinion showing a marked unfamiliarity with that side of the game, or the game in general.

 

 this.   

However, the large scale battles in Eve, (and in Aion, while we're mentioning it) were/are so terribly laggy that it doesn't matter how much skill or knowledge the player has as much as the importance of good bandwidth and system specs.

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by Axehilt

I like when combat is an interesting match of wits and skill with my opponent.  Completely different from what you find in DF/EVE.

I have been, at times, completely awestruck by the skill of some opponents and friends in PVP in EVE.  The knowledge of the game, quick thinking, actions under pressure, and sheer superiority against oppenents in ships that should have won has convinced me EVE takes an incredible amount of skill to be good at the PVP.

 

Saying that EVE takes no skill or wits in pvp combat is a redicilous opinion showing a marked unfamiliarity with that side of the game, or the game in general.

 

I've been in several even numbered fights, be it one versus one, or similar small fleets and above.  I have never thought to myself that the other player won due to them grinding more isk.  I have also never felt that the fight was pre-determined.  I have felt that it was determined by my or my opponents mistakes during the battle.

Also, fleets can and have often killed other fleets larger in number, within reason.  And before you come back and say "But what if they have hundereds more than you?!" I will simply say that were it WoW, Aion, or any other fantasy game where your group was outnumbered by hundereds, you too would lose.

You also forgot that the thread title is not "Best large-scale PVP" but is, in part, "Largest scale PvP".  It is barely debatable.  EVE has battles larger than other games have on their entire shard.

 I have lost ships in Eve to people I had a large advantage over because I either hesitated or selected the wrong course of action. Of all these games Eve is more a kin to flying a fighter plane. You have to be able absorb large amounts of info flowing from multiple sources at once. Process that data based on experience and intuition and commit immediately to a course of action. This applies to both fighting on the grid as a gang mate and coordinating a fleet as an FC across multiple star systems. It is not a game for the faint of heart or the slow to act.

The Zerg as he calls it is easily defeated the same way malitias are. With fast moving calvery that hits quick and hard then fades away...rinse and repeat. In Eve the Zerg is NOT an I win button. Example, Bruce alliance pitch fork zergs vs Pandemic Leagion nanoHACs. The pitch fork zerg lost...badly...over and over.

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by Axehilt

I like when combat is an interesting match of wits and skill with my opponent.  Completely different from what you find in DF/EVE.

I have been, at times, completely awestruck by the skill of some opponents and friends in PVP in EVE.  The knowledge of the game, quick thinking, actions under pressure, and sheer superiority against oppenents in ships that should have won has convinced me EVE takes an incredible amount of skill to be good at the PVP.

 

Saying that EVE takes no skill or wits in pvp combat is a redicilous opinion showing a marked unfamiliarity with that side of the game, or the game in general.

 

I've been in several even numbered fights, be it one versus one, or similar small fleets and above.  I have never thought to myself that the other player won due to them grinding more isk.  I have also never felt that the fight was pre-determined.  I have felt that it was determined by my or my opponents mistakes during the battle.

Also, fleets can and have often killed other fleets larger in number, within reason.  And before you come back and say "But what if they have hundereds more than you?!" I will simply say that were it WoW, Aion, or any other fantasy game where your group was outnumbered by hundereds, you too would lose.

You also forgot that the thread title is not "Best large-scale PVP" but is, in part, "Largest scale PvP".  It is barely debatable.  EVE has battles larger than other games have on their entire shard.

I was about to add something similar, thanks for the post.

When I read comments like "...personally I feel it's sort of a joke to call it "PVP" when fights are completely pre-determined like they are in DF or EVE...", it's crystal clear that that person has only grazed the surface of these games or not even played them in the first place.

If you're looking for large-scale quality PVP, EVE and Darkfall are your best choices for the time being.

Originally posted by Cecropia

When I read comments like "...personally I feel it's sort of a joke to call it "PVP" when fights are completely pre-determined like they are in DF or EVE...", it's crystal clear that that person has only grazed the surface of these games or not even played them in the first place.

If you're looking for large-scale quality PVP, EVE and Darkfall are your best choices for the time being.

 This too.

But yeah, if you really are wondering what the largest scale PvP is (active MMO's) , the answer is simply EVE and Darkfall.

If you are only wondering what the "best" pvp is, I think you'll have to describe what would be 'best'.    I assume you mean, most fun, best performing (low lag), and most accessible...    You're pretty much left with some low par choices if that's the case, because the more accessible pvp is in a game, the less it's going to 'matter' whether you win or lose, and it means there will be more people over-exploiting the flavor of the month tactics and class builds.      

The accessible, smooth running and consistent pvp games imo:

Warhammer - Aion - World of Warcraft - CoH/CoV - Age of Conan

Originally posted by kadepsyson

You also forgot that the thread title is not "Best large-scale PVP" but is, in part, "Largest scale PvP".  It is barely debatable.  EVE has battles larger than other games have on their entire shard.

That part isn't debatable at all.  EVE wins hands-down.

But you also forgot that the title of the thread is "Largest scale PVP/Best PVP". 

Another factor worth considering is how frequently PVP actually happens.  In EVE you PVP a mere fraction of the time that you spend PVPing in a real PVP game.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by kadepsyson

You also forgot that the thread title is not "Best large-scale PVP" but is, in part, "Largest scale PvP".  It is barely debatable.  EVE has battles larger than other games have on their entire shard.

That part isn't debatable at all.  EVE wins hands-down.

But you also forgot that the title of the thread is "Largest scale PVP/Best PVP". 

Another factor worth considering is how frequently PVP actually happens.  In EVE you PVP a mere fraction of the time that you spend PVPing in a real PVP game.

wait... what??   Where did you get this idea?

Ok, if you're into PVE, then yeah, sure, PvP is a fraction of your time...  But if you play Eve FOR the pvp, and are a capable, learned pilot, who isn't affraid to communicate with the community (yes, a lot of people complain that they actually have to talk to others in EVE instead of hitting buttons to put them in queues and 'finders'), then you can be in pvp battles 100% of the time. (assuming you can afford the losses.)

When I was in lowsec pirate corporations, I would log in, "x" up for fleet invite, choose a ship, undock, fly to rally point (somewhere within a commonly used pipe, like between 0.0 and a highsec market hub), and join in on nonstop pvp-griefing for as long as I decided to be online.   That is the shady pvp, imo... so I don't pirate (much) anymore.     I also tried the pvp-only alliance Red vs Blue  (or maybe not a true alliance? maybe just a managed organization of players) and within that, you can choose to be in Red Federation or Blue Federation.  Both were corps dedicated to fighting the opposite side.  All day.   Every day.   small scale to large scale combat.     Let's not forget 0.0 alliances that fight over sovereignty an an almost constant basis.  Sheesh...  again, I get the feeling that 'someone' hasn't really looked into the game beyond the trial period.   That, or 'someone' simply can't grasp the concept of sandbox, because in this sandbox, you can fight all day, or never.  Your choice.

Rising Force online had some very fun, very large scale PvP that I have to rank up there with my PvP fights in AC, SB, DF, Dark Age of Camelot and Eve.   I can't believe some people answered WoW PvP....what?

For biggest fights that I've personally been in it's been Rising Force with a few hundred player on 3 different sides.  The most fun pvp would probably be some of the smaller 20-25 people groups in Shadowbane.

What others have said about Eve is completely true, I'm still learning it so i can't say to  much about it.  It's easy to see that just selecting a target and hitting orbit at a certain distance is not the way to win a fight.

Originally posted by mm0wiggins

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by kadepsyson

You also forgot that the thread title is not "Best large-scale PVP" but is, in part, "Largest scale PvP".  It is barely debatable.  EVE has battles larger than other games have on their entire shard.

That part isn't debatable at all.  EVE wins hands-down.

But you also forgot that the title of the thread is "Largest scale PVP/Best PVP". 

Another factor worth considering is how frequently PVP actually happens.  In EVE you PVP a mere fraction of the time that you spend PVPing in a real PVP game.

wait... what??   Where did you get this idea?

Ok, if you're into PVE, then yeah, sure, PvP is a fraction of your time...  But if you play Eve FOR the pvp, and are a capable, learned pilot, who isn't affraid to communicate with the community (yes, a lot of people complain that they actually have to talk to others in EVE instead of hitting buttons to put them in queues and 'finders'), then you can be in pvp battles 100% of the time. (assuming you can afford the losses.)

When I was in lowsec pirate corporations, I would log in, "x" up for fleet invite, choose a ship, undock, fly to rally point (somewhere within a commonly used pipe, like between 0.0 and a highsec market hub), and join in on nonstop pvp-griefing for as long as I decided to be online.   That is the shady pvp, imo... so I don't pirate (much) anymore.     I also tried the pvp-only alliance Red vs Blue  (or maybe not a true alliance? maybe just a managed organization of players) and within that, you can choose to be in Red Federation or Blue Federation.  Both were corps dedicated to fighting the opposite side.  All day.   Every day.   small scale to large scale combat.     Let's not forget 0.0 alliances that fight over sovereignty an an almost constant basis.  Sheesh...  again, I get the feeling that 'someone' hasn't really looked into the game beyond the trial period.   That, or 'someone' simply can't grasp the concept of sandbox, because in this sandbox, you can fight all day, or never.  Your choice.

I think Axehilt could have been referring to the downtime in EVE that can happen.  Waiting for fleets to get organized or travel times perhaps.  Compared to a PVP-centric game like League of Legends, yeah I can understand his sentiment.

That said, the "Best PvP" is entirely what each of us prefers and finds to be the best.  That's why we're here, to discuss our opinion on that subjective matter :)

Is darkfall seeing much improvement in terms of patches?  I haven't tried it yet, and I'm curious about how post-launch development is going.

DaoC for player focus, Eve for ships/spaceships.

GW do Arenas best.

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by mm0wiggins

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by kadepsyson

You also forgot that the thread title is not "Best large-scale PVP" but is, in part, "Largest scale PvP".  It is barely debatable.  EVE has battles larger than other games have on their entire shard.

That part isn't debatable at all.  EVE wins hands-down.

But you also forgot that the title of the thread is "Largest scale PVP/Best PVP". 

Another factor worth considering is how frequently PVP actually happens.  In EVE you PVP a mere fraction of the time that you spend PVPing in a real PVP game.

wait... what??   Where did you get this idea?

Ok, if you're into PVE, then yeah, sure, PvP is a fraction of your time...  But if you play Eve FOR the pvp, and are a capable, learned pilot, who isn't affraid to communicate with the community (yes, a lot of people complain that they actually have to talk to others in EVE instead of hitting buttons to put them in queues and 'finders'), then you can be in pvp battles 100% of the time. (assuming you can afford the losses.)

When I was in lowsec pirate corporations, I would log in, "x" up for fleet invite, choose a ship, undock, fly to rally point (somewhere within a commonly used pipe, like between 0.0 and a highsec market hub), and join in on nonstop pvp-griefing for as long as I decided to be online.   That is the shady pvp, imo... so I don't pirate (much) anymore.     I also tried the pvp-only alliance Red vs Blue  (or maybe not a true alliance? maybe just a managed organization of players) and within that, you can choose to be in Red Federation or Blue Federation.  Both were corps dedicated to fighting the opposite side.  All day.   Every day.   small scale to large scale combat.     Let's not forget 0.0 alliances that fight over sovereignty an an almost constant basis.  Sheesh...  again, I get the feeling that 'someone' hasn't really looked into the game beyond the trial period.   That, or 'someone' simply can't grasp the concept of sandbox, because in this sandbox, you can fight all day, or never.  Your choice.

I think Axehilt could have been referring to the downtime in EVE that can happen.  Waiting for fleets to get organized or travel times perhaps.  Compared to a PVP-centric game like League of Legends, yeah I can understand his sentiment.

 

That said, the "Best PvP" is entirely what each of us prefers and finds to be the best.  That's why we're here, to discuss our opinion on that subjective matter :)

 

Is darkfall seeing much improvement in terms of patches?  I haven't tried it yet, and I'm curious about how post-launch development is going.

I certainly have a hard time believing the guy's "constant" pirate griefing was truly constant.  Travel time, searching, or waiting would be a huge chunk of playtime.

Originally posted by kadepsyson

I think Axehilt could have been referring to the downtime in EVE that can happen.  Waiting for fleets to get organized or travel times perhaps.  Compared to a PVP-centric game like League of Legends, yeah I can understand his sentiment.

 

That said, the "Best PvP" is entirely what each of us prefers and finds to be the best.  That's why we're here, to discuss our opinion on that subjective matter :)

 

Is darkfall seeing much improvement in terms of patches?  I haven't tried it yet, and I'm curious about how post-launch development is going.

 I think I can understand that, ok.     My appologies, Axehilt.   I didn't mean to sound antagonizing, but after hearing some of the FALSE statements and assessments of Eve so many times, I guess I've become a little guarded about it.      

The downtime can be a bit much if you're not already set up to log in and fight, I can't argue that.      But that's a sandbox.  Eve or not, sandboxes don't usually just teleport you into pvp matches.

To be honest, the travel time can get annoying sure.  I once did around 150 jumps in a freighter in one day.  It took a while.  I must say though, the travel time at least is important to have.  It makes the game work, especially when you do a suprise attack and defenders have to scramble from all over to get to you.

I also think the "hunt" for targets in solo/small pvp is fun!  It might not be actual combat, but it can lead to that, and it can be intense for me at least.

Again, it really comes down to preference.  These things may, in someone's mind, make EVE PvP the best, or better than another game, or it could make it far worse.

I love EVE PvP, except when I lose ;)

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by kadepsyson

You also forgot that the thread title is not "Best large-scale PVP" but is, in part, "Largest scale PvP".  It is barely debatable.  EVE has battles larger than other games have on their entire shard.

That part isn't debatable at all.  EVE wins hands-down.

But you also forgot that the title of the thread is "Largest scale PVP/Best PVP". 

Another factor worth considering is how frequently PVP actually happens.  In EVE you PVP a mere fraction of the time that you spend PVPing in a real PVP game.

 When I was in a nullsec alliance there was PVP going on every day almost all day. I was more of a carebear/PVE type player in EVE and spend most of my time doing mining and manufacturing, but I could do that because our alliance always had PVP action happening. If it wasnt large scale fleet battles there was plenty of small fleet roams, pipeline bottlenecks, station seiges. Its jsut a amtter of getting involved and finding a corp that is active in alliance politics.

Umm I like Planetside better than Darkfall, may more varied combat and faster paced. Hopefully Planetside next is even better.