Originally posted by rainwolf

Originally posted by Kenaoshi

.. and yet couldnt create a char that i liked, even in CO something could be done, put there lag, "same ol" stuff u have nothing interesting to play :(

You only start with a few basic pieces of gear and such, you unlock most of it through playing the game.... much deeper than CO. : )

no, because even then there are less choices than CO and it mean you are grinding for each character to get a look that you want. Not to mention the lack of facial, hair, color, size, powersets, UI only has 6 slots for powers, there is no sort of crafting or other sidelines other than combat, chat is horrid and the list just keeps going on and on.  Shallow is being kind.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Listen to what people say is good about the game:

• Combat
• DCU characters/world

Beyond that there isn't a lot that people are raving about.  It almost always reverts back to those two things and even then it is sort of abstract what has any depth or longevity to it.

 

Go beyond the positives of the game and you are bound to find something that is either limited in design or small in quantity.  

 

The game is trying to be a pc mmo and a console action game at the same time, but does neither completely and is rather limited as a result of that direction. 

Well, it IS an action game that was designed around the limitations of a console controller. See FFXIV for a game where that design limitation was thoughtlessly ignored.

It IS a online game with a persistent world with hundreds of players. That fullfills the definition of MMO.

The shortcomings you're seeing would be a problem for a game that tries to be a traditional MMORPG with a Superhero paint job. That's not what it is. Most of the negative reviews you see are expecting DCU to be a game it never wanted nor pretended to be.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Listen to what people say is good about the game:

• Combat
• DCU characters/world

Beyond that there isn't a lot that people are raving about.  It almost always reverts back to those two things and even then it is sort of abstract what has any depth or longevity to it.

 

Go beyond the positives of the game and you are bound to find something that is either limited in design or small in quantity.  

 

The game is trying to be a pc mmo and a console action game at the same time, but does neither completely and is rather limited as a result of that direction. 

Again, you are limited by your enjoyment of these features not because the game lacks anything.  I've played the game 2 months already in beta, and have paid to play the game a third month.  The combat is very fun,  and as the servers are packed right now, it makes for some very packed and entertaining battles.

At almost any point and time at the science police headquarters,  I've seen anywhere from 5 vs 5  to a 10 vs 15 battle.  Its a lot of fun, and when you take the PvP missions you complete them in a few short minutes in a battle like that.   

Playing for the sake of fun.  Why is that somehow a crime?  Is fun not a good enough reason to stay subbed? Do I have to have a mindless timesink in order for me to have a reason to resub?  Can't I have something fun to do, that requires a challenge like the feat system instead of a crafting or housing system that caters to the amount of time spent rather then my ability to play the game without people trying to dismiss it as being "shallow"?   

Different does not equal shallow.  More things to do does not equal complex.  Having 50 pre determined skills on your skill bar doesn't automatically make the game tougher.  So many misconceptions its staggering.

Originally posted by Silacoid

I don't understand what people think is shallow about this game?  There are so many weapon/powerset/movement combos that you can find a ton of variety and the cities seem pretty extensive to me so far.

 Well as many reviews stated, that isn't really the type of death alot of mmorpg gamers seek some like myself seek activities outside of the constant "combo executing" that you look at as variety. 

I don't dislike the game but the fact remains that for many of us the sense is that you aren't going to log into this game unless you feel like running around killing hundreds of bad guys to the exclusion of anything else.

My feeling is that DCUO is a different type of mmorpg that follows in the mold of games like COH,CO,STO and such and I just don't feel like any of those games are worth a sub fee regardless of if they are fun to play or not.

For the record I think DCUO stands a cut above COH and I don't like either of Cryptics two games but they still haven't done enough for me to play this one yet, possibly a year or so down the line when it has alot more content so that I maybe could get six months out of it but for now I just can't see this game as being worth about $100 over a 2 month period.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Lack of content. I can finish the game in less than 2 months and all there will be left  to do is grind for gear. I like the game but sadly not worthy of a 50-60 doall box price, monthly fees and cash shop. I'll wait to see how long it takes them to add content such as an expansion or DLC before I even consider buying it.

actually i can hit max level in 2-3 days without making those 12 hour days.  from there the only things to do are duo's, raids, JLA quests, which all in turn are just rep grinds.

really you can do everything in the game in just a month, if you really enjoy the combat/pvp thats where the game will actually hold you.  

it is a very messed up game, they could of done a lot better and would of dominated the super hero genre if they didnt limit the powers, number of abilities.

Because it is...

Enough people have already stated why.

This game needs (& will) to go B2P, thats all there is to it really.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Daffid011

Listen to what people say is good about the game:

• Combat
• DCU characters/world

Beyond that there isn't a lot that people are raving about.  It almost always reverts back to those two things and even then it is sort of abstract what has any depth or longevity to it.

 

Go beyond the positives of the game and you are bound to find something that is either limited in design or small in quantity.  

 

The game is trying to be a pc mmo and a console action game at the same time, but does neither completely and is rather limited as a result of that direction. 

Again, you are limited by your enjoyment of these features not because the game lacks anything.  I've played the game 2 months already in beta, and have paid to play the game a third month.  The combat is very fun,  and as the servers are packed right now, it makes for some very packed and entertaining battles.

 

At almost any point and time at the science police headquarters,  I've seen anywhere from 5 vs 5  to a 10 vs 15 battle.  Its a lot of fun, and when you take the PvP missions you complete them in a few short minutes in a battle like that.   

 

Playing for the sake of fun.  Why is that somehow a crime?  Is fun not a good enough reason to stay subbed? Do I have to have a mindless timesink in order for me to have a reason to resub?  Can't I have something fun to do, that requires a challenge like the feat system instead of a crafting or housing system that caters to the amount of time spent rather then my ability to play the game without people trying to dismiss it as being "shallow"?   

 

Different does not equal shallow.  More things to do does not equal complex.  Having 50 pre determined skills on your skill bar doesn't automatically make the game tougher.  So many misconceptions its staggering.

You keep saying how fun combat is as if you are trying to convince me or yourself of something.  I didn't say the combat wasn't fun, but I think you just did what I said people do. 

As for the servers being packed, why would that be a surprise during the games release?   Lets see how those numbers are 3-6-12 months out.  That is what the question of this thread is hinting at anyhow.

Speaking of misconceptions, DCU is not an "action" game.  It has console style action combat wrapped around a few elements of trimmed down mmo features.  You will be doing the exact same things as people in a typical mainstream mmo, but just lacking as many options/features as those other players have.  Feats, collections, missions and yeah thats it.  Same stuff, just less of it. 

Not to say you can't enjoy it.  Have a blast if you like, but don't try to represent it as something so different from other mmos and that it isn't lacking, shallow, scaled-down or whatever term you fancy. 

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Daffid011

Listen to what people say is good about the game:

• Combat
• DCU characters/world

Beyond that there isn't a lot that people are raving about.  It almost always reverts back to those two things and even then it is sort of abstract what has any depth or longevity to it.

 

Go beyond the positives of the game and you are bound to find something that is either limited in design or small in quantity.  

 

The game is trying to be a pc mmo and a console action game at the same time, but does neither completely and is rather limited as a result of that direction. 

Again, you are limited by your enjoyment of these features not because the game lacks anything.  I've played the game 2 months already in beta, and have paid to play the game a third month.  The combat is very fun,  and as the servers are packed right now, it makes for some very packed and entertaining battles.

 

At almost any point and time at the science police headquarters,  I've seen anywhere from 5 vs 5  to a 10 vs 15 battle.  Its a lot of fun, and when you take the PvP missions you complete them in a few short minutes in a battle like that.   

 

Playing for the sake of fun.  Why is that somehow a crime?  Is fun not a good enough reason to stay subbed? Do I have to have a mindless timesink in order for me to have a reason to resub?  Can't I have something fun to do, that requires a challenge like the feat system instead of a crafting or housing system that caters to the amount of time spent rather then my ability to play the game without people trying to dismiss it as being "shallow"?   

 

Different does not equal shallow.  More things to do does not equal complex.  Having 50 pre determined skills on your skill bar doesn't automatically make the game tougher.  So many misconceptions its staggering.

You keep saying how fun combat is as if you are trying to convince me or yourself of something.  I didn't say the combat wasn't fun, but I think you just did what I said people do. 

As for the servers being packed, why would that be a surprise during the games release?   Lets see how those numbers are 3-6-12 months out.  That is what the question of this thread is hinting at anyhow.

 

Speaking of misconceptions, DCU is not an "action" game.  It has console style action combat wrapped around a few elements of trimmed down mmo features.  You will be doing the exact same things as people in a typical mainstream mmo, but just lacking as many options/features as those other players have.  Feats, collections, missions and yeah thats it.  Same stuff, just less of it. 

Not to say you can't enjoy it.  Have a blast if you like, but don't try to represent it as something so different from other mmos and that it isn't lacking, shallow, scaled-down or whatever term you fancy. 

How is this NOT an action game?  It plays exactly like Prototype with multiplayer,  raids, etcetera.  That is an action game,  why isn't this an action game?  Because it has an MMO prefix?  Because the quests have to be turned in afterwards?  

Is this scaled down based on what,  WoW standards?  MMO standards?  Your own personal standards?   Less of it in comparison to what?  Other MMOs?  How many character creation options does WoW have? LOTRO?  Maybe less options then other superhero MMOs?  How many Raids does CO have?  How many different PvP arenas?  Is it because its missing crafting?   The entire idea that there are these hard lines on what a game is or isn't is antiquated.  This is a clear hybridization of the action RPG genre in an MMO setting.  I don't see how that is even debateable. 

How can this not be what it claims to be, if those are what they say they are?  If Prototype is an Action Game and it plays extremely similar to DCUO, why is DCUO not an action game?  I just don't understand this way of thinking.

Originally posted by JeroKane

 LMAO! Seriously! Can you get any more wrong than that?

You know how many people RAID in WoW or EQ2?  Only about 5 to 10% of the entire game population!  So please!

The sole reason why people stick to EQ2 for example is exactly crafting, auction house, collections, housing, the AA system and all the quest content that is available in the game!

Those number are bogus.  Far more than 5-10% of the long-term players raid.  I'd say it's closer to 60-70%. Nobody stays in a game simply for crafting, or running around to look for collections.  People don't max out their characters to sit around for hours fake tailoring. They max them out to play end game stuff and upgrade their equipment. That is the kind of thing you do when you can't find a group or raid to go on, or you don't have the time.  In other words it's fluff that keeps some people interested, but bores other people to tears.  People do not stay in EQ2 because of crafting and housing. I enjoyed the housing setup in EQ2, but I never once thought about paying a monthly fee to decorate my house. It is there for something to do on an off night. In EQ2 there are raids going constantly. When people get to the higher levels they spend most of their time running dungeons, missions, and farming loot/gold.

Yes, games like WoW attract a wider range of people so some can do that stuff if they want, while others can avoid it by farming gold.  But guess what, not every game has to try to cater to the exact same audience.  It amazes me that certain people that like things like crafting don't seem to understand or care that there are as many, or more that don't like it. It's fine if that is something that you absolutely have to have.  If that is what is important to you, there are plenty of places to find it.  I personally hate crafting.  I hate having it forced on me by those that claim that all MMO's have to have it (for some reason). The game is designed to be more action oriented. Crafting is not action.

Your links to negative comments are useless. Anyone can find posts that say what they want to convey.  However, most of those comments were still positive. The one even starts out saying  "The game is very cool...".  No one is claiming the game is perfect.  Many still find it fun despite its flaws. There are a lot of games I can't say that about. Clearly, being fun is not enough for you, so by all means, skip it. 

One of the reasons could be that an MMO about "super heroes" doesn't work well (at least to me).

Ever since I tried CoH long ago, I saw the limited attraction of such a game.

Everyone is a super hero and all you do is saving people like every other super hero.

Now you can say that a lot of fantasy MMO's is all about being the hero, but the flow of progression in a fantasy based MMO is more natural, more logical in the built up of the character.

A hunter or rogue begin in a very humble state of progress. A (comic) hero based game feels odd from the very start.

If the world only consists of super heroes, you're no longer super at all or so it feels. At the same time "flying" in these games feels unnatural, powers feel tagged on, progression is simply ... odd.

Originally posted by kiern

You know how many people RAID in WoW or EQ2?  Only about 5 to 10% of the entire game population!  So please!

The sole reason why people stick to EQ2 for example is exactly crafting, auction house, collections, housing, the AA system and all the quest content that is available in the game!

Those number are bogus.  Far more than 5-10% of the long-term players raid.  I'd say it's closer to 60-70%. Nobody stays in a game simply for crafting, or running around to look for collections.  People don't max out their characters to sit around for hours fake tailoring. They max them out to play end game stuff and upgrade their equipment. That is the kind of thing you do when you can't find a group or raid to go on, or you don't have the time.  In other words it's fluff that keeps some people interested, but bores other people to tears. 

His numbers may be bogus for you but 60-70% raiding ? Not a chance. Please do look around and talk with RL friends and you'll see there are a lot of casual players around and a LOT of players that have different playing styles than the raid or die mentality. I play PvP almost all of the time. A PvP title is much more important to me than killing X boss in a Raid 20 times over and I know a lot of guys who think the same. I have exactly 2 maxed out characters and I get the most fun out of PvP or leveling through PvP.

BTW: there is proof of this non raiding : It is enough to browse through the armory of Wow to see that many, many maxed level characters hardly do serious raiding and this was even back in the easy dungeon days of Wotlk.

So browse the armory and you'll be surprised how many people have a very short list of downed Raid bosses. Hell I know 2 guys in RL who still don't have maxed characters while playing on/off for 6 years.

Shallow means something different, depending on the context.

In this case, we are comparing DCUO to other MMORPG's.  And yes, in comparison, it is very shallow.  That doesn't mean that it's a bad game, though.  As mentioned, it compares favorably to single player action console games.

In MMORPG's, depth comes from having a lot of different and involved ways to spend your time. 

In DCUO, it's combat and more combat.  That's about it.

On the plus side, the combat in DCUO itself is more interesting than most MMORPG's because it requires more skill and understanding.

Unfortunately, superhero games rely heavily on character builds and customization to add replayability.  CoH players just reroll and reroll.  Similarly, in Champions Online, I spent a ton of time playing with different builds.  Right now, I'm not so sure that DCUO offers the same depth.

By the way, Star Wars Galaxies really is incredibly deep.  That game was revolutionary at its prime...and it's still revolutionary now.  If someone polished and graphically overhauled SWG right now (especially with the pre-CU classless system) and rereleased it, people would be talking about how incredible that game is.

---

Originally posted by fervor

In this case, we are comparing DCUO to other MMORPG's.  And yes, in comparison, it is very shallow. 

That doesn't mean that it's a bad game, though.  As mentioned, it compares favorably to single player action console games.

In MMORPG's, depth comes from having a lot of different and involved ways to spend your time. 

In DCUO, it's combat and more combat.  That's about it.

---

DCUO calls itself a "MMO". By doing that, it is comparing itself to what we consider MMOs. People who are saying "Well, anything can be a MMO" is sugarcoating and dancing around what we all know and consider MMOs as a whole.

Given that, if we compare DCUO to Wow, Champions Online, Eve, CoH/CoV, Darkfall, LOTRO, Rift, WAR, etc etc etc.. typical MMOs.. this game is as shallow as the baby pool at the community center. There's no crafting, there's no Auction house, you can't have housing, no minigames, the chat system stinks, no exploration of worlds (just small cities), there's no side things like fishing and such. The only thing you're doing in DCUO is PvP dueling/arenas for the most part after you breeze through missions, and that PvP has no effect on the gameworld whatsoever as far as who controls things, which is empty PvP. Heroes and Villians fight for costumes in this game, that's it. That's all there is to fight for.. new spandex.

All this talk of Raids, Alerts and Duos are the same EXACT thing: dungeons just done in different ways. Raids are 8 man dungeons, Alerts are 6 man dungeons and Duos are.. well you know.

This isn't a lot of diverse content it's the same thing dressed up in different ways. It's like saying Lex's Nightclub and the Metro Police station are two different places when they aren't. They are exactly the same buildings inside with no variation other than evil guys in one, good guys in the other one.

But when compared to what DCUO fans are saying are "mmos", games like Halo, CTD4, Arkham Asylum, and the like.. DCUO isn't a shallow game at all. By those comparisons its as deep as War and Peace. That is when this game shines vs those types of games as a 'multiplayer' game.

this game sounds like crap. what would be so wrong with designing a sandbox for this setting, where hero's helped npc's build things, and villains try to tear them down. open pvp...bam perfect super here game....

Problem is, the reality of the world is not that simple.  Even now, I can gurantee there is some one crying on the PvP server because villains outnumber the heroes like 5 to 1.  Constantly there's someone griping that ON A PVP server they are ganked.  I think that if SOE adds content, this could be a very nice sandbox (towards mid to end game).  I think the SMARTEST move would be something like... themepark quests all the way up to around 20 or so.  And then release some awesome denziens in the real world to mess crap up.  As heroes earn PvP marks or whatever, streets look cleaner and tidier, as the villains take over they get full of trash and whatnot.  I can't imagine the patching would be too difficult on the game that has mechanics for cars and people (npc's just randomly walking around) built in.

This game IS content lite, but really it's not so bad as everyone makes it sound.  Heck, just playing through the Scarecrow questline had a ZOMGWTF DID I DO THAT kinda ending that had me actually sit back and go.. whoa!

Originally posted by Silacoid

I don't understand what people think is shallow about this game?  There are so many weapon/powerset/movement combos that you can find a ton of variety and the cities seem pretty extensive to me so far.

My guess is because you were weaned on console games and just havent planned enough deep RPG PC games to know any different, its nothing to be ashamed of.  If you think lots of "weapons" "armor sets" and button combos to mash equals game depth then cool.

Originally posted by alderdale

Originally posted by Silacoid

I don't understand what people think is shallow about this game?  There are so many weapon/powerset/movement combos that you can find a ton of variety and the cities seem pretty extensive to me so far.

My guess is because you were weaned on console games and just havent planned enough deep RPG PC games to know any different, its nothing to be ashamed of.  If you think lots of "weapons" "armor sets" and button combos to mash equals game depth then cool.

And what the diferent between this depth and WoW/EQ2/FF14/AoC ? none? they are basicly the same: fight for gear and fight again for more gear.

what DCUO does better than all of them is the actual combat system

Its a button masher, but its ment to be, it was build for the PS3 so expect it to play like a PS3 game get a game pad and just have fun, if your using a mouse your not going to like it.

Originally posted by Kalmarth

Its a button masher, but its ment to be, it was build for the PS3 so expect it to play like a PS3 game get a game pad and just have fun, if your using a mouse your not going to like it.

Which pretty much answers the OP's question short and sweet.

Not bad for its intended audience, but depth is not its mainstay.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Lack of content. I can finish the game in less than 2 months and all there will be left  to do is grind for gear. I like the game but sadly not worthy of a 50-60 doall box price, monthly fees and cash shop. I'll wait to see how long it takes them to add content such as an expansion or DLC before I even consider buying it.

Actually hitting level cap of 30 days in 2 days to a week seems easily doable, then it's gear grind.  That and pvp is all to do right now.  Having said that, I'm still enjoying the game.