Originally posted by travamars

Originally posted by Nekrataal

Good for you!

Now, if only the hoards of non-mmorpg player would realize the same thing & move on with their gaming, & go back to what they like instead of trying to change a genre to what its not, everyone would be happier.

The list is as follow:

 - People that are constantly whinning about "grinding".

 - People that thinks that the game start at end game. ( jeez.... just saying it makes no sense & feel wierd to me)

 - People that are more interessted in scoreboards than lore

 - People that likes this souless quest grinding we are getting today

 - People that can't be bothered to group & think that even epics should be soloable

WAKE UP & realize that you aren't in the right genre. You know its the truth!

Happy gaming! :)

EDIT:

 - People that don't want to share a world & be part of a community, but have their own personnal content. ( instance, phasing, etc... )

 LMAO!!!!

first he complains about people complaining about grinding. Then he complains about grinding.

The OP has a point so maybe you guys should just call him a troll, since thats how its done around here when someone makes a good point and you dont like it.

 There's a differance between level grinding, as in seeing a game as nothing more than a race to the top, & quests grinding mechanic... I guess I have to point that out for some people. Look at old school MMO if you want to understand what i'm talking about.

Edit: Souless Quests treadmill might have been a better choice of words.

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by Nekrataal

Good for you!

Now, if only the hoards of non-mmorpg player would realize the same thing & move on with their gaming, & go back to what they like instead of trying to change a genre to what its not, everyone would be happier.

The list is as follow:

 - People that are constantly whinning about "grinding".

 - People that thinks that the game start at end game. ( jeez.... just saying it makes no sense & feel wierd to me)

 - People that are more interessted in scoreboards than lore

 - People that likes this souless quest grinding we are getting today

 - People that can't be bothered to group & think that even epics should be soloable

WAKE UP & realize that you aren't in the right genre. You know its the truth!

Happy gaming! :)

EDIT:

 - People that don't want to share a world & be part of a community, but have their own personnal content. ( instance, phasing, etc... )

i find myself agreeing so much with this post, then alluvasudden right in the middle of it is this huge, glaring irony.

Most MMO's HAVE this "souless quest grinding".

Hear I am, ready to say "here, here!" to this post, thinking it's someone that achieved the ultimate wisdom, which is that MMO's are what they are, and if you have nothing but bad to say about them, maybe MMO's aren't your thing...

But then you drop a line in bitching about one of the biggest MMO staples there is.

 Correction, its a staple of the new, I'll say it, WoW clone MMO, which, many agree, are straying farther & farther away from what a real MMO ( see oldshcool ) is or should be by precedent.

Sorry for the double posts

Originally posted by Nekrataal

Originally posted by travamars

Originally posted by Nekrataal

Good for you!

Now, if only the hoards of non-mmorpg player would realize the same thing & move on with their gaming, & go back to what they like instead of trying to change a genre to what its not, everyone would be happier.

The list is as follow:

 - People that are constantly whinning about "grinding".

 - People that thinks that the game start at end game. ( jeez.... just saying it makes no sense & feel wierd to me)

 - People that are more interessted in scoreboards than lore

 - People that likes this souless quest grinding we are getting today

 - People that can't be bothered to group & think that even epics should be soloable

WAKE UP & realize that you aren't in the right genre. You know its the truth!

Happy gaming! :)

EDIT:

 - People that don't want to share a world & be part of a community, but have their own personnal content. ( instance, phasing, etc... )

 LMAO!!!!

first he complains about people complaining about grinding. Then he complains about grinding.

The OP has a point so maybe you guys should just call him a troll, since thats how its done around here when someone makes a good point and you dont like it.

 There's a differance between level grinding, as in seeing a game as nothing more than a race to the top, & quests grinding mechanic... I guess I have to point that out for some people. Look at old school MMO if you want to understand what i'm talking about.

Old School MMOs were just as much about level/skill grinding as New School ones are about quests.

Originally posted by Nekrataal

Originally posted by travamars

Originally posted by Nekrataal

Good for you!

Now, if only the hoards of non-mmorpg player would realize the same thing & move on with their gaming, & go back to what they like instead of trying to change a genre to what its not, everyone would be happier.

The list is as follow:

 - People that are constantly whinning about "grinding".

 - People that thinks that the game start at end game. ( jeez.... just saying it makes no sense & feel wierd to me)

 - People that are more interessted in scoreboards than lore

 - People that likes this souless quest grinding we are getting today

 - People that can't be bothered to group & think that even epics should be soloable

WAKE UP & realize that you aren't in the right genre. You know its the truth!

Happy gaming! :)

EDIT:

 - People that don't want to share a world & be part of a community, but have their own personnal content. ( instance, phasing, etc... )

 LMAO!!!!

first he complains about people complaining about grinding. Then he complains about grinding.

The OP has a point so maybe you guys should just call him a troll, since thats how its done around here when someone makes a good point and you dont like it.

 There's a differance between level grinding, as in seeing a game as nothing more than a race to the top, & quests grinding mechanic... I guess I have to point that out for some people. Look at old school MMO if you want to understand what i'm talking about.

Edit: Souless Quests treadmill might have been a better choice of words.

 So what you are saying is that people that complain about mmo's are non-mmo players, unless their complaining about things you dont like. You must think very highly of your opinion.

Originally posted by Nekrataal

 

 Correction, its a staple of the new, I'll say it, WoW clone MMO, which, many agree, are straying farther & farther away from what a real MMO ( see oldshcool ) is or should be by precedent.

Sorry for the double posts

ah, so you get to say what a "real MMO" is.  I assume you refer to UO, since I recall EQ having questing.

Yes, UO is the only "real MMO" in exactly the same way the Model A is the only real car.

Kudos to you mate.  I find that I game in order to play with my buddies and therefore single player RPG's don't meet that criteria, but I agree that they do tell a better story.  Instead of you I find I usually just read a good book to get my story immersion and use MMO's as a medium for hanging out with friends, especially those that don't live close to me anymore (and therefore can't just come over to hang out).  

Originally posted by paperbard

I have finally figured it out. After spending nearly five years playing various mmos, subbing and unsubbing, etc. I have come to a very important conclusion.

I don't like mmorpgs. I play single player rpgs and have so much fun playing them, getting into the story, feeling the characters, etc. I play an mmo and I feel like its a job, like I'm just speed leveling and am not really interested in what's going on.

Therefore I admit, to this entire community, that I am ignoring mmos from here on out. Goodbye, so long, Blizzard you will no longer get my money, peace I'm out.

Other people are great, but sometimes you just get a level of satisfaction from playing with yourself that just can't be reached in a group environment.

Wait that didn't sound right.

Originally posted by travamars

Originally posted by Nekrataal
...

 So what you are saying is that people that complain about mmo's are non-mmo players, unless their complaining about things you dont like. You must think very highly of your opinion.

Yup, I do. There's nothing wrong with that.

I'm not feeling like taking all the BS that we are getting today & just shut up.

Like it or dislike it, I don't care. I absolutly think that MMO's would be much better off right now if the kind of poeple I listed never had set foot in the genre.

Originally posted by paperbard

I play single player rpgs to experience a story and have fun with a video game. If I want human interaction I go out and do something with people.

 I get all the human interraction I can handle at work, plus a little extra. 

Originally posted by Nekrataal

Originally posted by travamars

Originally posted by Nekrataal
...

 So what you are saying is that people that complain about mmo's are non-mmo players, unless their complaining about things you dont like. You must think very highly of your opinion.

Yup, I do. There's nothing wrong with that.

I'm not feeling like taking all the BS that we are getting today & just shut up.

Like it or dislike it, I don't care. I absolutly think that MMO's would be much better off right now if the kind of poeple I listed never had set foot in the genre.

There is something wrong with that when you defy your own rules, which you do on a ridiculous, undeniable scale.

If the concept of MMO's becomes blowing raspberries into Lindsey Lohan's butt, and you aren't into that, then that means you aren't into MMO's.

MMO's have indubitably become a largely quest based system.  So if you aren't into that, you're not into MMO's.

Time to do what the OP has done, which is accept that MMO's are no longer what you've been seeking and move on.  If you don't,  you have NO LEGIT PLATFORM WHATSOEVER to make any of your previous claims.

---

Originally posted by Terranah
I can't seem to ever get into single player rpgs.  I like to see people running around and have some human interraction. 

---

Ideally I'd love to have a game like Elders Scroll: Oblivion and while NPCS are going about their business you have some running in and out of the cities as if they are going on adventures themselves. Have them standing around talking to each other about their recent adventures. Sure dialogue might be recycled but I wouldn't mind that. Just the illusion that NPCs have lives would be nice.

MMOs are pretty much this now since many focus on solo content anyway. I'd just rather not pay a monthly fee if that is what I'm getting in the end. I think a single player game can replicate this.

The games that came close to this for me were the dotHack rpgs on the PlayStation 2. That was a single player RPG series where you played a character playing a MMORPG. So you had a desktop to answer emails and log into the game. Characters you encountered were people playing those characters. You ran around the hubs you could see npcs doing things but those were other "players" as well. So you saw them doing things I believe people would normally do in MMOs. It was a good game. So it can be done. That was years ago and systems (console and computers) are more powerful now to handle something on a larger scale.

Originally posted by paperbard

A single player rpg game is like playing in a novel, with an intelligent world, story, and characters thought out already. I want immersion, not to be insulted because my gearscore is too low or I'm playing a stupid build.

 

No thanks, I like the experience of single player rpgs and people are dicks.

Being told you are playing a gimped or stupid build IS really really upsetting and frustrating. Especially when it is constantly.

I remember playing a Mercenary in Dark Age of Camelot, who was a Saracen instead of a Half Ogre. I thought the Saracen and being a Dex Mercenary was the coolest thing ever. Everyone always thought I was a stealther (I dressed in black like one too, and stealthers were always saracen) so I got a major advantage in combat.

I was actually a kick-ass Mercenary, and one of the best tanks I ever grouped with. In fact... I never grouped with a tank better than me. I also was ALWAYS promoted as leader and told to lead the team, even when I was quiet. No idea why.

Anyways, I still got flak constantly for it. "You should roll a half-ogre instead." and "You're gimped." and "A saracen? LOL WTF?"

I was even told by someone I was gimped bc I was saracen, so I challenged them to a duel. I dominated them badly, with most of my health remaining. The result? I was still gimped. Somehow... I defeated Half-Ogres all the time, or at least tied with them or lost by mere luck. I hated, hated, HATED Half-Ogres.

Same problem being a Smite Cleric. One of the most fun classes, with the capacity to damage almost as high as a wizard but while HEALING allies with every strike. Unlimited possibilities as a hybrid Support DPS (mainly on the DPS end) but still told I was gimped, even when I rocked the house.

People are jerks. And they are racist too, full of stubborn stereotypes which supercede any reason or fact. It didn't matter that I was a great player. Saracen Mercenary? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Smite Cleric? LMAO!!!!!!!!!

I finally got sick of it and rolled a Hibernian Bard-- which was kindof overpowered of a role, being the two most important roles of a group (Speed & Primary Healing). I dominated so many Albions, although I played that for only a month. Fun though...and I was praised to high heavens for being a Bard, even when I sucked.

Players never blamed me as a Bard, even when it was my fault we died bc I accidentally went /stick and /afk for the entire battle. It was always the fault of the gimp-- whoever that was.

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by Nekrataal

Originally posted by travamars

Originally posted by Nekrataal
...

 So what you are saying is that people that complain about mmo's are non-mmo players, unless their complaining about things you dont like. You must think very highly of your opinion.

Yup, I do. There's nothing wrong with that.

I'm not feeling like taking all the BS that we are getting today & just shut up.

Like it or dislike it, I don't care. I absolutly think that MMO's would be much better off right now if the kind of poeple I listed never had set foot in the genre.

There is something wrong with that when you defy your own rules, which you do on a ridiculous, undeniable scale.

If the concept of MMO's becomes blowing raspberries into Lindsey Lohan's butt, and you aren't into that, then that means you aren't into MMO's.

MMO's have indubitably become a largely quest based system.  So if you aren't into that, you're not into MMO's.

Time to do what the OP has done, which is accept that MMO's are no longer what you've been seeking and move on.  If you don't,  you have NO LEGIT PLATFORM WHATSOEVER to make any of your previous claims.

How sad that to be innovative, one only needs to stop the quest based system, to focus on a more innovative, fresh, retake of a better system (even if that has quests in it).

I am just glad I am not going to be the first developer to release a non-quest based MMORPG. I will just be the first in the last decade...LOL jk. It hasn't been THAT long has it?????

Hmm.

No matter how good it is - I am unable to stay interested in a singleplayer game for more than 2 months realtime.

A really good MMO is hard to find. But if I have one, I can play it for years, happily. Sad part of course - MMOs like Vanguard are the exception, not the rule.

I'm quite pessimistic about SWTOR. It tries to get rid of the grinds. Great goal. But it lacks in many other respects. The classes dont look like much fun, right now.

There's nothing wrong with not staying interested in a game after two months. They aren't meant to. Its about quality, not quantity. 

In five hours of playing a single player rpg I get far more entertainment than even playing a 'good' mmo for 10 hours interspersed could give me. 

You don't sit there watching a movie over and over, saying to yourself "Hey, one movie should be good enough to entertain me for an indefinate time" or sit down and play socom or even a single player rpg and say 'hey, this game is going to be my sole entertainment for a year'.

You don't read and re-read the same novel, you enjoy it for what it is and move on to another one. Perhaps later on, after you've read some other novels, you might want to reread that one again, but its purpose isn't designed to keep you coming back again and again, that's what an addiction is.

Video Games are boxed experiences. All MMOs do is take the experience of a single player rpg and streatch all that entertainment out across a ridiculous timespan, diluting the fun but creating filler and using the bragging factor and addicting qualities to keep people playing regardless. Its a money making scheme.

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by Nekrataal

Originally posted by travamars

Originally posted by Nekrataal
...

 So what you are saying is that people that complain about mmo's are non-mmo players, unless their complaining about things you dont like. You must think very highly of your opinion.

Yup, I do. There's nothing wrong with that.

I'm not feeling like taking all the BS that we are getting today & just shut up.

Like it or dislike it, I don't care. I absolutly think that MMO's would be much better off right now if the kind of poeple I listed never had set foot in the genre.

There is something wrong with that when you defy your own rules, which you do on a ridiculous, undeniable scale.

If the concept of MMO's becomes blowing raspberries into Lindsey Lohan's butt, and you aren't into that, then that means you aren't into MMO's.

MMO's have indubitably become a largely quest based system.  So if you aren't into that, you're not into MMO's.

Time to do what the OP has done, which is accept that MMO's are no longer what you've been seeking and move on.  If you don't,  you have NO LEGIT PLATFORM WHATSOEVER to make any of your previous claims.

Yeah, I'll give it a couple more years & if that shitty quest treadmill race to cap crap doesn't go away, I will move on.

I'm not ready to concede that what we get today are true MMO yet & I will fight until I think all hopes of going back to the roots are gone.

edit: People that enjoy the quest treadmill should just go play Facebook games or something. They are not gamers, they are just freakin casual wanting to shut their brain off for whaterver reason & that is destroying a genre I liked very much for its group & community dependancy aspect. Is it clearer for you now?