i just have one comment how much did you get paid for this write up?

i have been with swg for over two years  i have two accounts and 3 characters a doc/dancer which i have cancelled through no more use for her, and a second account with a tkm and jedi soon to be cancelled too. the tkm as supposedly a tank couldnt kick the skin off a rice pudding and as for the jedi she may as well stay indoors crafting. all the game needed was to look at certain areas and most of all the bugs that we have played with for almost the life of the game. instead of that they changed the whole game . well all i hope is that as thier pockets get emptier of loose change they think back and say we should have listened to the people that played the game and paid our wages .

BOTTOM LINE!

i used to have fun when i played SWG, A LOT OF FUN!

NOW, i DON'T HAVE FUN! i have tried the CU for 2 weeks and i simply hate it. it is slow, boring, it has a stupid EQ2 look to it, the armor is horrendous, no soloing, jedi is nerfed and it is NOT THE GAME I PAID FOR! not to mention the horrendous attitude of SOE through this whole mess. i gave it a try and it fell flat on its face! so BOTTOM LINE: for us veteran players, IT'S JUST NOT FUN ANYMORE!

SOE paid me ten million dollars to write this article.

Thought I would answer that question since it seems to be a popular one.

I think that this article is right on the money. I like the CU way better than the old combat system.

I'm a huge Star Wars fan, and for along time I have cursed SOE for botching up SWGs. I started posts and tried to gather people together to get a new Star Wars MMO made by any other company besides SOE.

After the CU... I am actually happy. I quit playing WoW to go back to SWG, something I said I would NEVER do.

There have been alot of close minded people, neophobes who are scared of change. I urge everyone that has ever played SWG and quit because of the Hologrind or the AFK macroing to come back and try it again.

I've had more fun playing SWG lately then I have ever.

Granted, there are some issues that need to be addressed. I think that they are finally headed in the right direction to breath life into SWG.

My only gripe is one that I have about EVERY MMO that SOE makes... Insanely Steep grinds and timesinks are a slap in players' (read paying customers') faces.

It's a message that says, "We know you want to see this end game content, but you're going to have pay us alittle more and endure some mind numbing monotony".

Interesting article.

I'll be honest and say that I'm having more fun now than I did before the CU. I always thought the combat system pre CU was just dull and boring. Lay down states and spam your best attack. Find new target, rinse and repeat. Create a macro and you're all done. Just let it play itself. Now I have to pay attention. No more going off to fix dinner while my character fights.

Before, combat was decided by who had what. Who had the best armor, buffs and weapons. Now, while that still plays a factor, its more dependent on what you do at the keyboard.

All the people that spent all that time and credits to get the most uber stuff really got screwed. Of course, now the system shows who really has the chops to actually use their stuff the best.

Oh, and one other thing. PVP battles rock!

Now, I'm not going to defend SOE because quite frankly I am none to pleased about some of the decisions they've made in the past. On the other hand I don't really think they had a choice here and they've taken the game in the right direction. As someone before me said, they've taken it more mainstream. Which is good, IMHO.

Now, a couple of things that really make me go "WHAT?" are some of the comments made on the official boards though. Quite funny. Such as "This isn't the game I paid for!!!" Uhm, hate to break it to you, but you bought an Online Game in the Star Wars Universe. Its got the name, characters, worlds, etc. I do feel sorry and feel your pain if one of the game mechanics doesn't make you happy. Honestly.

Another thing I don't understand is this. Why do so many veterans (myself included) make the statement that SOE didn't listen to the player base?

I hit the forums everyday. There were thousands of voices all addressing each of their personal concerns. Different view points and different objectives and different goals. There was NO UNITY. No common objective. NONE. The player base offered SOE not one suggestion for the CU, but thousands (not counting duplicate ideas). There is just NO WAY SOE could have satisfied everyone.

Now, with that said, there are good things and bad things about the CU. For now it holds my interest and I'm happy its here. Are there problems? Yep. I hate the level system. HATE IT. Is there forced grouping? No, but you will do better in a group, but you can solo. Easily.

So, if you're interested give it a try, I recommend it. If not, well best of luck and I hope you find something that meets your needs.

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Originally posted by legacyguy

I also suggest you work on your "reporting" in the future and dig a little deeper instead of being satisfied with the surface.

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Can you elaborate on what deeper issues I should have reported on? I would gladly comment on all of them to your satisfaction. I have many different opinions on various aspects of the combat upgrade, many of them unfavorable as you might have noticed in the article. I'm trying not to take any 'sides' but report it as I see it.

[quote]Originally posted by Monthigos
Generally I find community relations to be unsatisfactory. I think the devs tend to alternate between listening to those who whine the loudest and not listening at all. I can't say I blame them though. Most players unconsciously ask for an easier game and get bored when they get it. In the past when they focused on a particual profession it tended to create very tipped FOTM profession, until they 'balanced' rifleman and then chose not to touch combat for a VERY long time.
[/b][/quote]

I think the reality here is that the gamers that tend to post in online forums and such tend to represent the vocal minority of most games. A vast majority of players never come online to post to message boards, attend chats, go to conventions or fan faires, etc. so developers and management are forced to guess as to what a majority of their player base really wants.

And face it, few people like change of any kind. I left SWG as a result of there not really being anything to do other than to go on silly console missions that were essentially killing rats in the sewers. I've thought about coming back to check things out again, but since SOE won't honor their All Access station pass, I won't be investigating the upgraded SWG any time soon....

Jim

What was "edited" out of your article before you posted it? Many of us would like to see what you had to cut. It hardly came off as objective, but then any post-structualist would tell you that being "completely" objective and unbiased is "essentially" impossible.

Also, you touched VERY lightly on the crafting and non-combat professions of SWG. SWG was never 100% about combat. A huge portion of the now cancelled playerbase were entertainers and artisians. What about them when the CU became "live" and practically ruined the playablity of many of them? Not everyone likes to fight. Combat indirectly influenced all non-combat professions, but those that played just so they could "create" something instead of "destroy" somethere are now alienated.

Another thing, you quoted the favorite phrase by Thunderheart yet if you went back to many, many of the posts and discussions from the devs concerning the "goals", "objects", and "improvements" that were promised during conception of the CU you would see that a fraction of these "promises" and "ideas" that much if not the vast majority of the playerbase agreed on were ever implimented. What happened to the "revamp" and "balancing" of the original "system" that many liked but agreed needed improvement and debugging? What motived SOE to "dumb down" and "simplify" to a "level" based system that steals the mudane and time-worn aspects from the leading popular MMOs today? Why did they be rid of what made SWG so unique and less "starwasy" with the "cutsey" new icons, animations, and what not? If you can answer these questions honestly then you are on your way to digging deeper into the real motivations that are driving the decisions made by the "suits" as some would call them.

I thought the author of the article did a great job in covering both Pro and Con of the CU.

unfortunately tho, I disagree with him.

I have been with SWG since 2 years before the game launched when it was nothing more than 3 forum boards and we spent all day discussing the future of the game. I logged in on game 2 of launch and watched as my childhood dreams of Star Wars were finally open to me.

I have watched as SOE has nerfed everything in the game from Creature handlers to Artisans to Weapons, theme parks and Yes, Newbie Melons. My love for Star Wars got me through all these as the nonexistent Jedi System was finally introduced six months after launch, to the past 12 months where every question asked to a dev was responded with the "The Combat Revamp will cover it." easy-out answer.

I was one of the MANY who thought we NEEDED a Combat Revamp and welcomed it. We hoped to have armor and buffs balanced. Class speaciels that had never worked since launch finally put in game. Classes like Ranger, Squad Leader and Smuggler finally get the revamps they deserved since half their skills were never in game to begin with.

We waited and watched and hoped.

I Beta'ed the CU when it went to TC3 last month. I sent in report after report and flooded the forums with my suggestions and fixes and bug reports. I did everything SOE wanted and more.

THEN they ticked me off. They launched the CU to LIVE servers weeks ahead of the scheduled May 5th upgrade and it was still riddled with Bugs. The SAME bugs I had reported back in TC3. Dallas Dickson said in another sites interview that they pushed the CU live cause they needed extra feedback on the bugged systems. So, basically SOE has FORCED ALL their players into PAYING to BETA Test SWG?

That is BS!

That was the straw that broke my Bantha's back, plus add in the fact that 80% of everything I had worked for the last 2 years was now turned upside down and most of it made useless with the new conversions of weapons, armor and items. That is it.

My subscription ends in June and I won't be coming back. Cancelled my ROTW pre-order and looking for a new game.

The anger most Vets of SWG feel today is that of betrayal cause SOE either didn't listen to us about the bugs or because they flagrantly took advantage of our patronage with the Beta testing on Live.

If you want to pay to beta test a game, SWG is for you.

If you want to build up a character for a year and then have the Devs come in and make all you worked for useless, then SWG is for you.

If you love Star Wars and want to live in the Star Wars universe, KOTOR is for you, not SWG.

Deal with it.

Rooks (the non-famous one)

Veteran of the Great Melon Nerf War of 03

Ranger is a lifestyle, not a Profession

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Originally posted by legacyguy
What was "edited" out of your article before you posted it? Many of us would like to see what you had to cut. It hardly came off as objective, but then any post-structualist would tell you that being "completely" objective and unbiased is "essentially" impossible.
Also, you touched VERY lightly on the crafting and non-combat professions of SWG. SWG was never 100% about combat. A huge portion of the now cancelled playerbase were entertainers and artisians. What about them when the CU became "live" and practically ruined the playablity of many of them? Not everyone likes to fight. Combat indirectly influenced all non-combat professions, but those that played just so they could "create" something instead of "destroy" somethere are now alienated.
Another thing, you quoted the favorite phrase by Thunderheart yet if you went back to many, many of the posts and discussions from the devs concerning the "goals", "objects", and "improvements" that were promised during conception of the CU you would see that a fraction of these "promises" and "ideas" that much if not the vast majority of the playerbase agreed on were ever implimented. What happened to the "revamp" and "balancing" of the original "system" that many liked but agreed needed improvement and debugging? What motived SOE to "dumb down" and "simplify" to a "level" based system that steals the mudane and time-worn aspects from the leading popular MMOs today? Why did they be rid of what made SWG so unique and less "starwasy" with the "cutsey" new icons, animations, and what not? If you can answer these questions honestly then you are on your way to digging deeper into the real motivations that are driving the decisions made by the "suits" as some would call them.

---

Perhaps you missed my earlier post, or maybe simply chose to ignore it. Either way, you need to understand that simply because you do not agree does not mean it is wrong. I once again invite you to write an educated, intelligent and well-supported response if you truly find his editorial so offensive to your senses. Provided it meets the above criteria, I will give it equal visibility.

[/quote]Lepidus wrote:

Perhaps you missed my earlier post, or maybe simply chose to ignore it. Either way, you need to understand that simply because you do not agree does not mean it is wrong. I once again invite you to write an educated, intelligent and well-supported response if you truly find his editorial so offensive to your senses. Provided it meets the above criteria, I will give it equal visibility.[/qoute]

Is my previous response above not intelligent enough for you? I have presented questions to Monthigos and every other individual that reads my post and I also displayed some view points that I felt were lacking. Monthigos does do a decently thorough job with the article but he was rarely asking any hard questions or seeking them out. He seemed to gloss over everything with an optimistic view, but need I point out that optimism isn't in many SWG player's vocabulary lately since they held onto that optimism everytime Thunderheart would say "that will be addressed in the combat revamp"?

That is my challenge to those that care to try it. Seek the harder questions and look for their answers. Too many people take things at face value rarely reading between the lines. Why do infomercials and politicians work so well in convincing people to believe them? Think about it.

Good work Monthigos, I thought that your editorial on the post-CU SWG was very well written, and your thoughts on how you now see the game were excellently presented (although I'd be curious to see what was clipped for space limitations). There will, of course, be differing opinions of players about the CU.. those in favor, those against, and the undecided. In this respect yo have indicated where you stand, and no-one can fault your opinion. It is, afterall, the right of everyone to choose their own opinions on matters.

I would hope that those who dislike the CU, and seem to have taken it upon themselves to disagree with your opinion, take the time to draft an article similar to yours expressing their opposing point of view. Perhaps if I have time over the next few days (while not preparing to be at E3 next week) I will sit down and formulate such an article of my own thoughts, opionions, and experiences within SWG, post-CU.

Again, kudos to you Monthigos. I found your editorial to be one of the better post-CU articles on MMORPG... even if I dont fully agree with everything you wrote. But that is life, is it not?

 

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Originally posted by Monthigos

SOE paid me ten million dollars to write this article.

Thought I would answer that question since it seems to be a popular one.

---

And this caused me to just about split my sides laughing!! Dear God, dont we just wish that was the case for the editorials we write/broadcast.

Cheers!!

Just to be clear - I was not saying anything specific about your post (save the parts about it getting a tad personal). Rather, I was hoping someone with an opposite opinion would write something up in a more publishable form (IE: .doc via email that would make sense in isolation of this thread).

Agreed mostly.

I left Galaxies because the game was absurdly out of balance, and the PVE was simply a joke in 99.9% of cases. The PVP was not all that great either, which for me is the end game and has to be good to keep me around.

Also in my mind, one should be nervous taking a hunting trip in Endor or Dath. Not be able to take a solo jaunt out there and waste rancors 2 and 3 at a time with your bars barely moving. And that was how the game WAS.

It certainly isn't anymore. lol Though for me it is no big deal, because I like grouping better anyway. No so for everyone, I understand that.

Even most of my rl friends that were still playing have left, especially the 3 Jedis that I PERSONALY knew.

I know I will get flamed, but this CU in my mind is exactly how it should be for Jedi at this point in the story line. You should have swarms of Bounty Hunters after you gain visability. It SHOULD be hard to grind. Jedi are supposed to be uber rare.

That said, what I do not hear is people sharing their experiances on how they have been SUCCESSFUL in the CU, and they are out there.

Thank you MMORPG.com for presently the other side the story.

Don't get me wrong. I completely understand that this is the biggest upgrade in mmorpg history. They cannot please everyone. And in revamping what was a terminaly broken system they had no choice but to radiacly alter weapons, armor, etc, in order to finally achieve that balance at least in my opinion.

Are there bugs? Yes.

Sucks items got nerfed so hard? Yes for those that had them, no for balance issues.

Does the level system need tweaking. HELL YES! And that tweaking can and should solve at least some of the Jedi problem grinding.

But I think that overall this will a very good system. Glad I came back, so far at least. :)

Just my 2 cents as an old vet coming back to see how the new system operated, and only been back a couple weeks at that. Please no flames. Just sharing my experiances and opinions.

the main problem with the CU is the damage multiplier system. It takes a game that was crafter based and makes it pointless. It also renders loot pointless. Case in point...

Im a lvl 50 combat player. I go attack a lvl 55 piket and die. I then go buy a ackley powerhammer thats been sliced at 35% max damage for millions of credits. I return to the lvl 55 piket and die again. I then seek out an armorsmith and have him make some ubber armor with nightsister shards and layors and yellow geo cubes. I also get the armor sliced for encumberances. Again I return to that lvl 55 piket and die. I then seek out a chef who makes the best food and drink on server. I return to the piket and die. I then spend 50 million credits on skil tapes to enhance my speed, accuracy, etc. Again I return to that lvl 55 piket and yep DIE AGAIN. Thanks to a damage multiplier system I have no chance to effect combat in any meaningful way. In essence, it doesnt matter how good or bad my armor is, I will always lose.

This is why players are upset. It makes all the effort for a player to get the best resources worthless. It makes all the effort to buy or loot 50 million worth of 12 point tapes useless.

All the loot hunters are out of a job. They have no point in hunting for loot anymore. Go see the trade forums, its quite sad. They used to be so very active, now completely dead as loot  and crafted items are pretty much pointless.

Get rid of the damage multiplier system and CL for the most part. And apologize for miselading us and perhaps we'd return. Many are upset because we were told to live with the bugs and broken professions because fixes were on the way. We never asked for a new game, just fixes to the old one. So yeah we are upset and justified in our anger.

I disagree with the author , the CU ruined the game for and many in my guild which all left for Guild Wars. I loved SWG till the CU, now I will never play a SOE game ever again. I loved craftnig so much I had a Armorsmith, Weaponsmith, and Shipwright . Now I can be one hit by a nuna its ridiculou, at least before I had the chance of survial setting a harvester or factory. Now if a mob is by my harvester I cannot go and get resources from it. I was a avid crafter spent many hours crafting , and I even had a jedi which my little brother grinded for me.

Good luck to SOE cuz I think they going to need it, and if you like the CU thats great more power to you. If you dont like it well other games are out there and take away from SOE revenue .

Hello,

I am not gonna say I agree or disagree with your opinion of the CU. That is not what I am upset about. Generally my problems have been on several levels.

1. I am colorblind. I could play this game relatively well before the CU. Now I cannot very well because of the icons. (on a side note, you forgot to mention the HAM bars being red on red, blue on blue, and green on green. Guess how hard that is for me) SOE completely ignored anything any of us had to say. I had friends quit because they discriminated against me. Now, take that and imagine them telling people that SOE discriminates against people with disabilities. I sent a very informative email, no response. Posted the email in the boards, deleted.

2. SOE violated their own ELUA and TOS. Plain and simple. If I had enough money, I'd sue the crap out of them. Here are the reasons why.

• The core game system is not the same, hence it is not an upgrade or enhancement. SOE has not even tried to denounce this point. They have come right out and said it was a new game. Therefor they have not given the customer what they paid for.
• They admittedly released a buggy system to the live servers. This violates so many laws I won't even start. It simply falls back to the first point. Yes it will have bugs, but they said the live servers were going to be testing the new system. I'm sorry but if I pay to play, I should get to play on a server I don't have to test on. They have a server for this, yet they refused to use it. And still refuse to. Live servers are now 5 publishes ahead of TC. ???????
• blatant discrimination against people with disabilities. While not a violation of ELUA or TOS, it is a liability issue that again they basically said they don't care.

3. Failure to listen to player base. This has been gone into at great length so I won't go there.

4. Not allowing at least a Refund or Change to a different SOE game. While EA did not have too, I'm sure you remember when EnB sunset, they offered a copy of either TSO or UO as compensation for the loss of EnB. While this would not have quieted all, it may have helped some people deal with it. Maybe even offered a special price for RotW to people who had SWG for a certain amount of time. But they offered nothing.

4. Lack of communication during testing. SOE said they fixed all the reported bugs. This was a lie, read the Dickinson interview. Some of the bugs still on live were reported in beta. They said it was the testing community's fault that the CU had to go live. Again another lie, a interview with someone from LA said they wanted it live now. Also keep in mind that this was not the CU that was alpha tested. Ask any alpha testers willing to talk (and there are some out there) they will tell you that much.

While the CU could be enjoyable to me, I find it too hard to play to be objective. All I can basically do is sit there and hope I don't die. As I am a Doc, I can't find a group because of the colorblind issue. They are afraid I might not see they are dying. How can I argue? They are correct, I can't tell very well. They may very well die.

So, I can't give an honest opinion about the CU itself, I can say that I don't like it because in it's current form, it breeds discrimination against people. And worst of all SOE does not care. Looks like I'll not only quit SOE games, but I won't be buying the PS3 or PSP either. I'll be giving the rest of my game budget to Microsoft. At least they don't hate people with disabilities. Just look at their company policies, one of the most liberal company policies in the world. SOE probably has one of the worst company policies in the world.

Being a subscriber to SWG for over 2 years I feel somewhat betrayed by SOE with the Combat Upgrade.  The Combat Upgrade tells the casual player or the player with limited time that its not for them.  The days of solo missions are over and SWG is now practically forcing people to be in groups to have any fun. 

The Combat Upgrade takes the fun out of being a melee classes to include Teras Kasi, Fencer, Swordsman, Pikeman, and Jedi.  The Combat Upgrade takes away what makes those skills fun. 

In the Jedi class only those who have completed their Jedi Knight Trials like this Combat Upgrade.  For new Jedi and those in process of earning skills it makes the 34 million Jedi needed nearly impossible to complete unless your playing the game 10 hours a day.  In addition, the Combat Upgrade turned Jedi abilities into a mere shadow of what Jedi should be.  A solo Master Commando should not be able to kill a Jedi Knight...

The only professions that are any fun are the ranged professions which have more skills than ever.  You will never hear them having issues because this CU is everything them wanted. 

Overall from the perspective of a SWG veteran this CU is a disaster.  It took away the little fun I was still having.  I have now cancelled my SWG account and have no remorse in it.  One less person SOE will get money from.

I know my statements are highly opinionated, but to each their own.  I've stuck with SOE through 2 years of headaches and mistakes.  I've earned my right to have opinions.

-Former Intrepid Server member-