I'm not sure what the higher levels will bring but after 14 levels Rift's talent system is starting to show it's flaw. Yeah cherry picking the best talents from each class is great but the result is just a culmination of blandness and most it doesn't make a lick of sense. For example you can be a Paladin Reaver Warlord...WTF?

How can one be both a Paladin, a high fantasy idol for a "good" fighter and a Reaver which is basically a death knight. The worst thing is how nobody looks the part. Pallies don't look like pallies and Reavers don't look like Reavers. Everyone is running around like a generic "fighter guy" pressing hotkeys from the pallie and reaver tree. LAME.

I think what I am finding is that each soul has a few abilities in it which are themed to the role of the soul. However those are far up the tree and force you to heavily invest in the soul if you want it's "class" abilities. otherwise you get a peppering of minor perks and generic attacks.

I tried a paragon/riftblade combo and found I either found my hotbar with a ton of generic "do dmg and earn an action point" moves with a few finishers which did the same dmg, or focused into one soul and got some flavor but had little to no use for the other souls. 

You're either a bland multiclass without the key abilities of the soul (found near the upper branches of the souls tallent tree) or you focus on the soul and might as well not multispec at all.

Maybe by level 50 I have enough spill over points to get 100% into 1 soul and 25% into a 2nd soul, but I hardly see it viable to distribute points into the lower branches of 3 souls and never get the class defining abilities.

It's also hard to ask for a DPS and get a rogue only to later find he's mostly a bard which is a support role. Without identifying a persons "souls", the group leader has to go by their base archetype which can be decieving. My marksman/ranger was doing crazy good dmg compared to my ranger/bard. I mean like 2:1 dmg, but both were 'rogues'. How could a group know?

I dont normally respond to threads on these forums because people can be so short sighted, but this takes the biscuit.

How can you really determine the out come based on playing up to lvl 14 and seeing max characters at only lvl 20.

The idea of the class system is to find the right match for how you want to play and find what works well.

For instance the paly and warlord dont work well, your right. I found this out myself. The pally works very well using a sheild with his skills, where as the WL does not, so alot of skills are wasted. But atleast we have been given the chance to try it. Because surely the gripe would be that we could not if we could not try it.

There are different loooking armours, you have to earn the medals from rifts to exchange for them. And what else can you really exspect at lvl 20, cmon.

Originally posted by coxyroxy

I dont normally respond to threads on these forums because people can be so short sighted, but this takes the biscuit.

How can you really determine the out come based on playing up to lvl 14 and seeing max characters at only lvl 20.

The idea of the class system is to find the right match for how you want to play and find what works well.

For instance the paly and warlord dont work well, your right. I found this out myself. The pally works very well using a sheild with his skills, where as the WL does not, so alot of skills are wasted. But atleast we have been given the chance to try it. Because surely the gripe would be that we could not if we could not try it.

There are different loooking armours, you have to earn the medals from rifts to exchange for them. And what else can you really exspect at lvl 20, cmon.

While this does seem good, when you look at the long run, eventually you have very few elite builds. If what you say is true, then people WILL eventaully fall under a few simple combos.

Originally posted by BlahTeeb

Originally posted by coxyroxy

I dont normally respond to threads on these forums because people can be so short sighted, but this takes the biscuit.

How can you really determine the out come based on playing up to lvl 14 and seeing max characters at only lvl 20.

The idea of the class system is to find the right match for how you want to play and find what works well.

For instance the paly and warlord dont work well, your right. I found this out myself. The pally works very well using a sheild with his skills, where as the WL does not, so alot of skills are wasted. But atleast we have been given the chance to try it. Because surely the gripe would be that we could not if we could not try it.

There are different loooking armours, you have to earn the medals from rifts to exchange for them. And what else can you really exspect at lvl 20, cmon.

While this does seem good, when you look at the long run, eventually you have very few elite builds. If what you say is true, then people WILL eventaully fall under a few simple combos.

That would mean the game isnt balanced, and it happens in all mmorpgs.

If too many people are using specific combos then hopefully devs are tracking it and will realize 'wow a huge amount of players are specing these three skills together' and make the correct modifications to balance the game.

Originally posted by BlahTeeb

While this does seem good, when you look at the long run, eventually you have very few elite builds. If what you say is true, then people WILL eventaully fall under a few simple combos.

While I agree that will be the case, it will still be much wider array then with a normal MMO. I personally have used both wierd and very generic builds in MMOs, and know that generic builds are there not because the game is flawed, but because not everyone enjoys trying to min-max something on their own, or is plain lazy. 

Of course there are games that basically force you into cookie cutter builds, but Rift is not one of them. My Warlord/Void Knight tank rocked, and i was basically immortal as long as i targetted an enemy with mana. :D

Originally posted by Arioc

I think what I am finding is that each soul has a few abilities in it which are themed to the role of the soul. However those are far up the tree and force you to heavily invest in the soul if you want it's "class" abilities. otherwise you get a peppering of minor perks and generic attacks.

I tried a paragon/riftblade combo and found I either found my hotbar with a ton of generic "do dmg and earn an action point" moves with a few finishers which did the same dmg, or focused into one soul and got some flavor but had little to no use for the other souls. 

You're either a bland multiclass without the key abilities of the soul (found near the upper branches of the souls tallent tree) or you focus on the soul and might as well not multispec at all.

Maybe by level 50 I have enough spill over points to get 100% into 1 soul and 25% into a 2nd soul, but I hardly see it viable to distribute points into the lower branches of 3 souls and never get the class defining abilities.

It's also hard to ask for a DPS and get a rogue only to later find he's mostly a bard which is a support role. Without identifying a persons "souls", the group leader has to go by their base archetype which can be decieving. My marksman/ranger was doing crazy good dmg compared to my ranger/bard. I mean like 2:1 dmg, but both were 'rogues'. How could a group know?

I held similar concerns when I tried the game in Beta 1, but luckily there was a change for Beta 3. You now get an extra point every three levels that cannot be spent in your primary class. Thus it is now possible to start reaping some fruits from other classes while still having the maximum number of points in one class. It should also let you, if you wish, make a fairly decent two-class build at level cap.

Originally posted by Kexo

I'm not sure what the higher levels will bring but after 14 levels Rift's talent system is starting to show it's flaw. Yeah cherry picking the best talents from each class is great but the result is just a culmination of blandness and most it doesn't make a lick of sense. For example you can be a Paladin Reaver Warlord...WTF?

How can one be both a Paladin, a high fantasy idol for a "good" fighter and a Reaver which is basically a death knight. The worst thing is how nobody looks the part. Pallies don't look like pallies and Reavers don't look like Reavers. Everyone is running around like a generic "fighter guy" pressing hotkeys from the pallie and reaver tree. LAME.

There are a few things we need to concider here.

1. not all souls will be good together when mixing

2. not all souls are for the same style of play.

3. you have the ability to get multiple specs and switch when you want.

Paladin is a powerful shield tanker that can do great multi-target damage a powerful heal along with bringing players backfrom the dead. Great for groups as a traditional tanker and can be paired with Beastmaster for added pet dps and Warlord for boost to overall fighting. This mix can be balanced in different ways by popping out of spec into another one with a different balance for grouping or soloing.

Reaver is a two hander type of character with strong damage over time and is very similar to the Paladin in most respects so should NOT be mixxed with Pal as you wouldn't gain much from it....but you can if you want to. There are several souls that help out the Reaver spec as well.

There are also combos that are outside the box and allow for some crazy gameplay. I will not tell you what that mix is because it is my belief it is overpowered and I want to try it out next beta to see how it works together to be sure.

As I mentioned though it all comes down to having situational soul mixes. If you mix right you will pretty much always have some serious fun solo and be needed by groups and do well in PvP.

As far as the character looks go. You start the game as a single class. You will always be that single class but as you advance in level you will find a huge assortment of armors and weapons from crafting, dungeons, Rifts, and questing that will certainly change how your guy looks. It won't be over the top cartoon style like they did in WoW but that's actually a good thing in my book.

I think that is a rather bland way of looking at things. You assume everyone will want cookie cutter builds. You have 8 souls at your disposal for each type. You cannot max more than one soul so you have a variety of permutations to play around with in your whole track to the end game giving you what basically no game except FFXI has done in terms of freedom of playing how you like. You can be a dps today as a mage and tomorrow play a buffer healer in the afternoon and go with a solo pet build at dinner. The cost merely a purchase of a new soul.

Contrary to your opinion that everyone will pick the generic combinations which I do admit might happen for raids but in eevry other situation including PvP you will see people experimenting and having fun. I think the game is far from generic in fact it is the only thing setting it apart from the stable of games currently live.

Originally posted by Kexo

I'm not sure what the higher levels will bring but after 14 levels Rift's talent system is starting to show it's flaw. Yeah cherry picking the best talents from each class is great but the result is just a culmination of blandness and most it doesn't make a lick of sense. For example you can be a Paladin Reaver Warlord...WTF?

How can one be both a Paladin, a high fantasy idol for a "good" fighter and a Reaver which is basically a death knight. The worst thing is how nobody looks the part. Pallies don't look like pallies and Reavers don't look like Reavers. Everyone is running around like a generic "fighter guy" pressing hotkeys from the pallie and reaver tree. LAME.

I agree.  I went up to 20 and did a lot of pvp, however.  Even Shadowbane had more definition with various class branches.  If you think in terms of a traditional mmo, then yes the classes / art style / combat is all bland.  I think the key is treating this game like an FPS - i.e. not caring about the details and enjoying the player-vs-player combat.  It doesn't take long to get into a pvp confrontation unlike other mmo's where you have to trek very far, get setup, etc.  Im not huge on pvp in mmo's, but this game would be insanely boring without it.  And it's actually quite fun, despite the buggy tagging system.  But yes...the class roles are all a pretty bland dps or tank or support setup.  It doesn't give you the appearance that your unique, but instead makes you feel as you said 'fighter guy'. 

Anyone know the amount of skill points a character would hypothetically have at level 50 to spread among their 3 trees?

Originally posted by Paragus1

Anyone know the amount of skill points a character would hypothetically have at level 50 to spread among their 3 trees?

51

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Originally posted by Paragus1

Anyone know the amount of skill points a character would hypothetically have at level 50 to spread among their 3 trees?

51

 Theres been talk about an increase to 75 ish.

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Originally posted by Paragus1

Anyone know the amount of skill points a character would hypothetically have at level 50 to spread among their 3 trees?

51

 From my understanding it was increased to 66 total Soul points

Originally posted by Markn

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Originally posted by Paragus1

Anyone know the amount of skill points a character would hypothetically have at level 50 to spread among their 3 trees?

51

 Theres been talk about an increase to 75 ish.

As it currently is you gain an extra skill point every 3 levels.

Originally posted by Markn

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Originally posted by Paragus1

Anyone know the amount of skill points a character would hypothetically have at level 50 to spread among their 3 trees?

51

 Theres been talk about an increase to 75 ish.

That would be the sweet spot for multiclassing.  Otherwise in most situations pure breeds are still the best.

Originally posted by Averros

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Originally posted by Paragus1

Anyone know the amount of skill points a character would hypothetically have at level 50 to spread among their 3 trees?

51

 From my understanding it was increased to 66 total Soul points

This is correct. The new total is now 66 points at level 50. You get one point every level, plus an additional point every 3 levels.

Originally posted by wormywyrm

...

That would mean the game isnt balanced, and it happens in all mmorpgs.

If too many people are using specific combos then hopefully devs are tracking it and will realize 'wow a huge amount of players are specing these three skills together' and make the correct modifications to balance the game.

And heres the catch. The Amount of Souls they have makes for a impressive list of combinations.... on paper that is. In reality this is UNBALANCEABLE (did i just make up a word?^^). PvP will suffer in this game. And 50% of the highlvl playerbase does pvp! so anybody can guess what outcome this will have.

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Originally posted by mithoss

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Originally posted by wormywyrm

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...

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That would mean the game isnt balanced, and it happens in all mmorpgs.
If too many people are using specific combos then hopefully devs are tracking it and will realize 'wow a huge amount of players are specing these three skills together' and make the correct modifications to balance the game.

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And heres the catch. The Amount of Souls they have makes for a impressive list of combinations.... on paper that is. In reality this is UNBALANCEABLE (did i just make up a word?^^). PvP will suffer in this game. And 50% of the highlvl playerbase does pvp! so anybody can guess what outcome this will have.

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Also once you pick your first soul, it shows you at the bottom in green what souls work better with. One thing I can't stand though is balance. I think there shouldn't be balance in any class at all, period. Balance to me only dumbs down the gameplay and effects to many classes overall. So what if some builds are to powerful, in the end some skills will be involved. And if you want to base it off reality, no single fight has ever been balanced. Fightning and War's have always been about how to get an advantage over an opponent. When you, lets say, prepare for a UFC fight, you try to find advantages like does the person have ground game? Does the person have injuries? And what not and use that against your opponent. Why people think everything should be fair and balanced kinda shocks me. I don't need nor want to go into a fight thats going to last 6-8 hrs because we are equally balanced. I go into fights wanting to finish you instantly, if I can. I do understand that we are playing a game though so reality doesn't exist nor should it. But balance to me just sounds to equal. And if people want true balance, then your going to end up having every class have the same talents and skills, meaning generic. If you don't then you will always have imbalance. And do we all really want to be the same, or do people actually want to be different. Can't really have it both ways.

Put it this way, if you want true balance your going to end up with a game where your always fighting a clone of yourself. Does that sound even remotely fun? Me, I like suprises. If you beat me, im going to do one of two things.

A. Find a way to beat you if possible or

B. Move on to the next opponent.

What I won't do is complain why your more powerful then me, mostly because it's not a bad thing. You had something I don't and you were the better man on that given day. If anything I may congratulate you.