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12/28/10 9:57:53 PM#141
Originally posted by mrbbman Very true. I tend to think of MMO's in two eras. Era 1 was EQ-WOW and everything was like EQ. For the most part, games based themselves on the EQ model while some games tried new things. Even WOW, in its early form, was an EQ-clone. Era 2 is newer-WOW to the present. As WOW diverged from the EQ model, the casual MMO gamer was brought into the fold and games went more casual and new player friendly. Since, all games have been like WOW to capitalize on this new market. Games from here on out will either be like WOW or have a dev/investor/design team that is content on not having WOW numbers. I am sorry but a hardcore/FFA/sandbox will not have WOW's success in the modern market. To capture WOW's success you either will have to out-WOW WOW (hard to do) or create a totally new MMO experience (which we have yet to see). With that said, Rift is like WOW which is to be expected. This does not make it a good or bad game, it is what it is. Rift has taken systems from other games and tweaked them, changed them or improved on them. It is a solid game. If you want it to be anything other than a WOW-like game, then move along. Its design its like it is for a reason and that is not changing. I think its a great game and has enough there for me to play it. Have I done it before? Sure but the same could be said for every RTS, FPS, MMO, etc... that I have ever played. Age of Empires 3 was more of the same from AOE 1 and 2 but that didn't make it a bad game. I personally accept games for what they are and decide to enjoy them for what they are and not what I want them to be. |
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12/29/10 8:44:18 AM#142
Originally posted by Elidien Excellent points. The only thing I would disagree with is the "first phase" of MMOs. Ultima Online, the Realm and Meridian had no quests (they had a few in Meridian but they were not as obvious). The first generation was more of a virtual world sandbox type of thing. When designers made those games they thought wouldn't it be fun to play in these game worlds together?! Today they think. . lets make a cool game that people can play alone if they want, while seeing other people run by - and group if they want to. That was a major shift. . but you are right these games were not going to grab the casual crowd and they are still unlikely to. Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is! |
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12/29/10 10:43:41 PM#143
Originally posted by nomss
Sad. All you've read is reviews and you make a post like this. I just poured 2 full, long days into the current beta, and I don't think the game is even close to a wow clone, or whatever-the-hell-people-are-saying. It's completely different than wow, plays totally differently, and so on. It has tons of dynamic events, NONE of which I've ever seen in wow (or pretty much any other game). The graphics look nothing like wow's cartoony style either. They are quite amazing actually. Some of the best effects and graphics I've ever seen in a game - especially the graphics of the different rifts. The multiclassing is awesome - making for completely different types of characters. There's very little grinding, and if anything, the game is too easy. The pvp is even fun, and challenging, and I don't even like pvp, for many, many reasons (and I'm not going into them here). I've played countless mmos for 10+ years, and not only is this game extremely solid, it's actually fun to play. I'm sure it will be a very solid release. This beta (beta 3?) is *very* solid. |
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Originally posted by HappyFunBall Um... I've played WoW about a year. This game PLAYS like WoW. Graphics are good. But it PLAYS like WoW. And no, I have not just read reviews of Guild Wars 2 to make a post like this. I've seen the 50 minutes Guild Wars 2 gameplay. This game is good for someone looking for WoW + 1 like a guy who put it that way. It's fighting mechanic = WoW fighting mechanics. When rifts open up, they're hardly dynamic. Here's what GW2 has to say about their dynamic events: "Because the world is constantly changing through our event system, we've created a living, breathing environment that is especially rewarding for altoholics. The event system will help ensure that every new character you create has a truly unique experience when playing through the game world, making playing new characters more fun and rewarding than in traditional MMOs." But in Rift, this is not true. But as for the rifts, they open and we close them. I think 90% of the time we'll be able to close the rift. But as for GW2 each dynamic event will be different. You win the dynamic event, it'll lead to different consequences. You loose the dynamic event, it'll lead to different consequences. But for rift, if we loose, maybe one town gets taken over. I don't see dynamic here. Anyways, I don't really like WoW, neither do I want to play a game that plays like WoW. Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video: |
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12/30/10 5:25:33 AM#145
I'm sorry, I have to point this out because it's one of my biggest pet peeves. It's lose NOT loose. Loose is what my ex-wife was. Lose is what happens when you do not win.
Personally, I find the combat system to be similar to WoW, but with subtle differences that put it above WoW in many aspects. However, that is like comparing apples to oranges. Blizzard didn't come up with anything groundbreaking in WoW, from beta through the current game. The interface and other aspects are similar in nearly every MMO out there, regardless of genre. The only thing that has happened with WoW over the last few years is that they've dumbed the game down more and more to the point where a three year old can play it on the first day, and within a few weeks be high enough level to start raiding.
I look back at the years that I've spent gaming, from early MUDs to The Realm, Ultima Online and Meridian 59, then on to EverQuest, EverQuest II, World of Warcraft, Earth and Beyond, Eve, and many, many others, and the one thing that I see is that there is a lot of competition in a flooded market for the attention and money of gamers. No two people are going to have the same opinion of any given game at any given time, which is good. Differences are what make it worthwhile to try new games and help the developers with their ideas and help to nurture them into a game that more people can (and hopefully will) enjoy, play and bring others in to have fun with.
I avoid reading other peoples' reviews of games for the most part, preferring to establish my own opinion by playing the game, not watching an hour long video of game play... Anyone can make an hour long video of gameplay of a game that they want others to have interest in, and spin it to view in any way they wish it to. The proof is in with the end result of the finished product and how it performs and feels to those who are willing and able to put out the funds to buy and continue to play the game. |
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Well, I'd like to point out: The fighting style is very similar to WoW. After hearing this, one should be prepared what's coming when they go off and buy the game. And one should certainly give the game a shot before calling quits without even trying the game. Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video: |
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12/30/10 1:42:04 PM#147
It is better and more refined PRE-LAUNCH then almost all MMO games released in 2010. That says alot. You have to live under a rock to not want to get this game if you enjoy the classic MMO. It's got plenty of lore, wonderful character flexability, lots of questing, unique dynamic events, scaling graphics, faction based PvP, crafting, exploration, dungeons, ring events, servers with different rulesets, an in game achievement system, incredibly fully featured and flexible GUI and much more. I do not live under a rock and will be playing this game on release. I think Trion might be the first gaming company in a while to actually live up to player expectations in having a complete, polished, feature rich game at launch and listen to it's potential player base even before release. |
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12/30/10 2:11:51 PM#148
Originally posted by arenasb
Ok, I'll play along....... I'd like to know what you and or anyone else would do different in making a next best thing MMORPG.. I've been playing MMO's ever since Ultima Online came out.. There are just two types of MMO's.. Ones that focus on PVP and ones that focus on PVE... There's really no in between.. The only MMO that you can sasy has somewhat balanced pve and pvp is Dark Age of Camelot, but that's just my opinion... In Rifts, the game is set up like any traditional sandbox MMORPG like EQ, WoW, EQ2, Vanguard, etc. However, the game features Rifts which are pretty similar to WAR's PQ's, just with a little twist.. Also, there will be PvP, the Guardians vs the Defiant.. I'm still yet to see how this system is set up even after participating in all 3 beta events.. I didn't play much this week due to work, and you can only get to level 20.. So, we really don't know how the upper levels will be like in terms of PvP and PVE gameplay.. We can make educated guesses based on the first 20 levels, and we'd probably be pretty accurate on our assessment.. Anyway, I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy or anything.. I look at Rifts and enjoy what the game has to offer from level 1-20.. It plays similar to all of my favorite MMO's I've enjoyed in the past like Everquest, EQ2, WoW, Vanguard, and DAOC "without the rvr" I purposely left off AOC and WAR simply because those two games did NOT have good PVE which I enjoy... With that said, there are features about Rifts which I think are awesome.. I love the different soul systems set up. You could literally multiclass "within the same archtype sphere up to 3 different combinations of classes.. I absolutely love this. It kind of reminds me of classic D&D, without being able to multiclass from opposite archtypes.. It's almost like choosing 3 distinctive classes and molding them into one awesome class.. What isn't cool about that?? For example, the 3 characters I created, I used the warrior tree, rogue tree, and the priest tree.. In the rogue tree I chose to play as a nightblade and ranger. I combined the bad arse melee abilities of the nightblade and mixed them with the awesome ranged abilities of the ranger to make pretty much a cross between the two.. How awesome is that? This is one feature that many will enjoy to tinker with for months and years to come.. No one person will be exactly the same, talk about insane diversity! I also enjoy the graphics of the player models and environments. I have yet to see player models and environments in any other mmorpg as awesome as Rifts. To me, this truly feels next gen.. Of course, I have a 24 inch lcd 1920-1080 monitor with a 8800 GTS graphics card.. Imagine how it would look on the latest and greatest graphics card.. Simply breathtaking.. Also, I absolutely loved the Iron Tombs dungeon. For a "BEGINNER" dungeon, it felt truly epic for me. I honestly haven't had this much fun since my days in EQ.. I remember playing EQ so many years ago and the first dungeon I ventured to was BlackBurrow,, the dungeon of the gnolls.. Now, this was like a level 10-15 dungeon, however it was the first dungeon you could go to if you started in Quenos area.. Blackburrow doesn't even compare to Iron Tombs in terms of breathtaking awesomeness.. If Iron Tombs was this cool, imagine how the other dungeons are going to be..
Topic change.... I look at many negative posts and it's pretty much the same ridiculous argument.. The negative people want MMORPG's to literally evolve into something completely different than what they really are.. Fantasy MMORPG's are just that.. Players living in a virtual reality fantasy world where they set out and go on adventures to become a legendary figure in their world by basically defeating all the evil in the land,,,, the end... If you ever read fantasy novels, it's ALL THE SAME.. Each particular story is different, but all are the same in terms of the concept.. You can't just change the concept in fantasy novels just like you can't change the concept in fantasy MMORPG's... So I ask one more time, what would you people change in MMO's to help make it a legendary awesome player experience? I would love to know the secrets hidden in your brains, since you minds must be more evolved than mine...
Rallithon Oakthornn |
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12/30/10 2:20:06 PM#149
An MMO where the world changes, say you could help the bad guys and peaceful villages turn to places that are getting set on fire by orcs, or you help good and that village now has rainbows and unicorns and Koala bears that crap rainbows into your brain as you wake up each morning. Each server would be different depending on what happens. Sure hard to implement without a lot of predictability but it would still be awesome. However, Rift is a pretty good game and the clas system is amazing. Instead of a specific class system, you are a powerful wizard, able to dip into the different disciplines of magic or a great warrior able to switch fighting styles and tactics to meet upcoming challenges. I really want to play this and Beta has only strengthened that. True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage |
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12/30/10 2:21:07 PM#150
Originally posted by oakthornn This. |
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12/30/10 2:21:54 PM#151
Originally posted by oakthornn Yes there is, EVE. CCP did it best, has as good, if not better sustained subscribership numbers than any mainstream mmo since WoW, save Lineage and Aion, and if it werent for the fact that I had to play a ship, but were more character-based sci-fi or fantasy with the same organic game-play mechanics with tiered sector pvevp, I'd be there. |
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12/30/10 2:38:34 PM#152
Well that's just it. WoW was originally an EQ clone with a few improvements. Then it evolved into new things with updates, improvements, and changes. Now it is unique, building the old model into something new. Rift could do that, it is a fun game and the few features that make it stand out are very key and add enough richness to make me like the game better than WoW. In fact, i played WoW for years, YEARS. Rift is the only new MMO to come out that could possibly cause me to play another game for YEARS. Especially if the dev team stays this responsive. We'll hopefully see lots of new content and features as the game grows. True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage |
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12/30/10 2:39:45 PM#153
Originally posted by terroni This ^. There's really nothing different about the game. The rifts and their "invasions" are distractions; they're a fun way to break up the otherwise simplistic monotony of counting to 15 goblins or whatever. It's not a terrible MMO as far as MMOs go - it's rock solid, there are great options for character progression, the world and graphics look pretty darn good, the dev team is responsive so far - but it's just another MMO. It's a MMO with wandering mob packs that can interrupt what everyone's doing.. but it's usually fun when they do. Trion will have shot themselves in the feet with their marketing. Anyone who enjoys MMOs as they are today and just wants something a little different is likely to really enjoy Rift. Those of us who very much want something different are likely to be disappointed when they try it. What I don't expect to see is the massive exodus that was witnessed with Aion. I expect there to be plenty of people who are disappointed and quit, but I would be surprised if it doesn't maintain a fair subscription base. oh hai this is not a sig |
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12/30/10 2:51:29 PM#154
Yeah that was in interesting series of events for sure. Aion got up to at least a mil subs and then lost a lot of them. This game probably won't have the mass exodus, but I think that people, like you said, that are looking for a traditional MMO with new exciting features are a sure to switch. I believe the game will survive, and that while you won't have the mass exodus, you'll have people moving and intending to stay. This is probably a better forcast for a game's survival in my book. I disagree with the statements about their marketing strategy though, they have stated that they were keeping features that are tried and true several times. If you feel duped by "completely different" expectations it isn't because of the marketing, it's because of your own hopes. This will absolutely have a fair subscription base and if the devs are as responsive to player feedback as they have been this will probably become a "next-gen" MMO as features are added and changed. You start with something a little different, and fun; then you grow the game from there. I am very interested to see what this becomes. True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage |
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12/30/10 6:53:22 PM#155
What is also suprising is that so many from WoW and War are in the Rift beta and have already expessed they will be leaving both WoW and War to come play Rift. |
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Rift no doubt is an awsome game. I don't like it, but doesn't mean others should NOT try it. Do give it a shot. Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video: |
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12/31/10 2:25:40 AM#157
WoW is an EQ clone because it has bags |
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12/31/10 2:31:27 AM#158
I didn't follow the game but i though i'd give it a try, but i have to say i found mediocre at best. Although i only played in the beta phase 2, i just havn't bothered with it since. Soul system is a nice idea though. |
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