Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by Cyrael

I've never understood the massive hangup some people seem to have with graphics like WoW and TOR. They're easier on hardware, and don't age nearly as quickly as more realistic styles do.

 

Well the issue here, as I see it, is that Star Wars already has an established visual "image recognizing" style to it. The jump to "cartoon style" graphics is alienating to many who know star wars for a completely different art style. Remember there are a lot of previous star wars games as well as the movies that come before this. 

 I Jar Jar binks didn't alienate them I 'm sure something as trivial as graphics in a game for which they aren't even the target audience won't phase them. Star Wars is the whore of the science fiction genre. It's beyond any purity arguments. Clone Wars anyone?

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by Cyrael

I've never understood the massive hangup some people seem to have with graphics like WoW and TOR. They're easier on hardware, and don't age nearly as quickly as more realistic styles do.

 

Well the issue here, as I see it, is that Star Wars already has an established visual "image recognizing" style to it. The jump to "cartoon style" graphics is alienating to many who know star wars for a completely different art style. Remember there are a lot of previous star wars games as well as the movies that come before this. 

WoW stayed consistent with the Warcraft art style, thus they can get away with it. Not so with Starwars. Its easier to go from cartoony to mature, but hard to go from mature to cartoony in terms of general visual appeal.

That said, I find Star Wars The Old Republic to be a visual eye sore.  It looks too much like the over exaggerated cartoons they try to sell young children. It doesnt even feel like Star Wars to me.

 

On a side note, I really do not think SWTOR will do well. It will get some sales, but honestly with everything they are doing with it, I'm not so sure it will meet nor even surpass their expectations. Its a hot IP, but that just means you have to be even more careful with how you design it. SWTOR is a lot like a single player game in experience, but a multiplayer game in that the experience goes along side others. It's risky ,but perhaps too casual for long term success.

THIS

Originally posted by Pigozz

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by Cyrael

I've never understood the massive hangup some people seem to have with graphics like WoW and TOR. They're easier on hardware, and don't age nearly as quickly as more realistic styles do.

 

Well the issue here, as I see it, is that Star Wars already has an established visual "image recognizing" style to it. The jump to "cartoon style" graphics is alienating to many who know star wars for a completely different art style. Remember there are a lot of previous star wars games as well as the movies that come before this. 

WoW stayed consistent with the Warcraft art style, thus they can get away with it. Not so with Starwars. Its easier to go from cartoony to mature, but hard to go from mature to cartoony in terms of general visual appeal.

That said, I find Star Wars The Old Republic to be a visual eye sore.  It looks too much like the over exaggerated cartoons they try to sell young children. It doesnt even feel like Star Wars to me.

 

On a side note, I really do not think SWTOR will do well. It will get some sales, but honestly with everything they are doing with it, I'm not so sure it will meet nor even surpass their expectations. Its a hot IP, but that just means you have to be even more careful with how you design it. SWTOR is a lot like a single player game in experience, but a multiplayer game in that the experience goes along side others. It's risky ,but perhaps too casual for long term success.

THIS

So, what did they do that everyone will hate so much?

Crafting? you mean the idea of having a crew making items based of your abilities instead of your character?

PvP? People won't like the instance (warzones) and open PvP areas,  that have a story interlinked with the PvP?

PVE where the action keeps moving because you'll never have an instance where everything is on cool down and you have to wait? The duck and cover system where a person can hide behind objects instead of standing out in the open? The enemy AI that will hide behind covers instead of just running at you and slashing you over and over again with different skills?

Quests that you can actually change the outcome of based on your decision?

Wide open seamless areas you can explore where there are no zones unless you go to another planet/space combat?

Companion characters with their own emotions and quests of their own?

Yep I can totally see the problem the graphics of the game alone will kill it. *rolls eyes*

I fail to see how this game will be bad unless you have super high expections but thats the players fault not the game.

Unless of course i missed something, what did they do to the game to make it not possible to meet peoples expectations?

They went with a more clone wars style look to the game, and with the popularity of that fanchise in all ages I would say it was a smart idea. The crafting is a smart move as well, because it makes sense, you see people in the real world repair their gear, outside of hollywood most people don't make their own gear. So far the game looks good as does the style. Do I feel it has a limited ammount of choice yes, but the game will do better than most people think. In this day and age if you don't like how it looks then your really not in the right part of the gameing industry. MMO's do not stick to one look style, and hyper realism isn't the norm.

So, what did they do that everyone will hate so much?

I don't think hate is a good word ,like the majority of posters are saying ,is it will be ok,just not a great game,perhaps not worthy of the high budget spent on it.

Crafting? you mean the idea of having a crew making items based of your abilities instead of your character?

Crafting as is designed,will actually be a PC done deal.IMO they should be creating game mechanics/ideas that players DO want to do,not create automated processes.That is like saying ,our crafting is boring or no good,so we are going to let your companion do it,so you won't get bored.

PvP? People won't like the instance (warzones) and open PvP areas,  that have a story interlinked with the PvP?

Cannot discuss this,because i am not interested in PVP,nor do i really understand what you are saying here.I do know that you shouldn't have a pre defined story based on PVP,because PVP is not something you can predict how it will take fold,since it has not happened yet,but the story is already in place.

PVE where the action keeps moving because you'll never have an instance where something is on cool down and you have to wait? The duck and cover system where a person can hide behind objects instead of standing out in the open? The enemy AI that will hide behind covers instead of just running at you and slashing you over and over again with different skills

Action keeps moving,well that depends what you call action.I think everyone is under the assumption that you MUST spend /waste time running from npc to npc and clicking menus for dialogue choice.That slows the game down more than keeps the action up,does it not?YES i do love the idea of better AI,and cover for combat,wide open combat is silly.

Quests that you can actually change the outcome of based on your decision

This part is way over hyped,you will get imo 3-4 choices of dialogue to click,and most likely ONLY 2 choices to swing your quest,either towards the good side or the evil side.The other thought i had was,the quest swing will be weather or not the NPC stays with you or not,or fights alongside,not really anything that will change the game world,just always an IF/THEN statement.

Wide open seamless areas you can explore where there are no zones unless you go to another planet/space combat.

This part is circumstantial,we all love exploration and zoned/seamless is a topic for debate,each has it's purpose.The exploration wil lonly be as good as the zones offer unique and cool things to explore,if all a bunch of static buildings,that won't be much,we have to wait to play the game to actually find out the answer.

Companion characters with their own emotions and quests of their own.

FFXI had companions and was done quite well,we have to actually try the game before we can comment on this being good or bad.

Yep I can totally see the problem the graphics of the game alone will kill it. *rolls eyes*

I fail to see how this game will be bad unless you have super high expections but thats the players fault not the game.

IMO i don't think graphics alone are a game breaker,but if done too cheap,it might be.As for high expectations,i think we all have high expectations from all game releases,and yes that is our fault ,if we expect too much.However as i already mentioned,the MAJORITY seem to be saying,they are not expecting much at all,just an over hyped average game.

There is little things a dev can do to spice up the graphics without lagging systems.They can keep most of the poly count down but give the weapon/firing effects more love,as that is the main focus of the action in the game.It would make sense,at least to me but judging by the poor quality laser looks/effects,they have not chosen to make the action part look better.

Originally posted by Wizardry

So, what did they do that everyone will hate so much?

I don't think hate is a good word ,like the majority of posters are saying ,is it will be ok,just not a great game,perhaps not worthy of the high budget spent on it.

Crafting? you mean the idea of having a crew making items based of your abilities instead of your character?

Crafting as is designed,will actually be a PC done deal.IMO they should be creating game mechanics/ideas that players DO want to do,not create automated processes.That is like saying ,our crafting is boring or no good,so we are going to let your companion do it,so you won't get bored.

Granted but noone knows exactly what type of crafting crafters want.  Anything too easy and complaints come in, anything too complex and people complain.  I don't know how crafting will be done. It could be the same thing as most games where you put the pieces into the schematics and let the crew do as you specify.

PvP? People won't like the instance (warzones) and open PvP areas,  that have a story interlinked with the PvP?

Cannot discuss this,because i am not interested in PVP,nor do i really understand what you are saying here.I do know that you shouldn't have a pre defined story based on PVP,because PVP is not something you can predict how it will take fold,since it has not happened yet,but the story is already in place.

In most PvP situations they tell you the reason you are fighting there and when you take over an objective they update you.  Sorta like.  "We have managed to take over the first base however the other side has brought in reinforcements to block our forward movement" instead of P1 Took the 1st flag. Type thing.

PVE where the action keeps moving because you'll never have an instance where something is on cool down and you have to wait? The duck and cover system where a person can hide behind objects instead of standing out in the open? The enemy AI that will hide behind covers instead of just running at you and slashing you over and over again with different skills

Action keeps moving,well that depends what you call action.I think everyone is under the assumption that you MUST spend /waste time running from npc to npc and clicking menus for dialogue choice.That slows the game down more than keeps the action up,does it not?YES i do love the idea of better AI,and cover for combat,wide open combat is silly.

Another words, instead of clicking an enemy, clicking an ability and waiting with auto attack on for those abilities to recharage. Your always going to be doing something, Either lobing a grenade, firing a flame thrower or firing a blaster.  Your always on the move as standing still in most encounters will get you killed.

As for the npc, some quests can be turned in remotely via a comm, but the quest aspect wasn't what i was referring to when i said where the action keeps moving. That was referring to the combat. which i thought was kinda obvious in my paragraph when the entire thing was about combat. but oh well.

Quests that you can actually change the outcome of based on your decision

This part is way over hyped,you will get imo 3-4 choices of dialogue to click,and most likely ONLY 2 choices to swing your quest,either towards the good side or the evil side.The other thought i had was,the quest swing will be weather or not the NPC stays with you or not,or fights alongside,not really anything that will change the game world,just always an IF/THEN statement.

Could be, but thats just one scenario.  it's kinda like the dimension type scenario.  In one instance you have 3 paths.  In the next you have 3 more, continue that 6 times, you could end up with 729 scenarios.  Granted this is the extreme case and most are going to overlap themselves and clone each other, but its still gotta be better having some control over the quest rather then just being told to go into the cave and kill x amount of creatures.

Wide open seamless areas you can explore where there are no zones unless you go to another planet/space combat.

This part is circumstantial,we all love exploration and zoned/seamless is a topic for debate,each has it's purpose.The exploration wil lonly be as good as the zones offer unique and cool things to explore,if all a bunch of static buildings,that won't be much,we have to wait to play the game to actually find out the answer.

Many people complain that worlds are too restricting and want wide open worlds to explore, the dev have said there would be a point to exploration, so i would imagine there are things to find out there that are off the beaten path.  Most people prefer a wide open world to a tunnel.

Companion characters with their own emotions and quests of their own.

FFXI had companions and was done quite well,we have to actually try the game before we can comment on this being good or bad.

Never said it didn't i'm just trying to list the things it does to poke at why people will think the game won't do well.

Yep I can totally see the problem the graphics of the game alone will kill it. *rolls eyes*

I fail to see how this game will be bad unless you have super high expections but thats the players fault not the game.

IMO i don't think graphics alone are a game breaker,but if done too cheap,it might be.As for high expectations,i think we all have high expectations from all game releases,and yes that is our fault ,if we expect too much.However as i already mentioned,the MAJORITY seem to be saying,they are not expecting much at all,just an over hyped average game.

There is little things a dev can do to spice up the graphics without lagging systems.They can keep most of the poly count down but give the weapon/firing effects more love,as that is the main focus of the action in the game.It would make sense,at least to me but judging by the poor quality laser looks/effects,they have not chosen to make the action part look better.

My statements were more a counter to what the person was saying when they said the recent things they've done will make it so it can't reach expectations when i disagree and don't see what they've done.  I was poking at random features that people found good in an attempt to try and ferret out the real reason behind the statement.  Was it the graphics? the game play? the story? the combat? what?

This isn't to say the game will be the best ever, it won't.  But i hardly think it will be as bad at the person i was quoting will be.  It certainly gives you a lot more features then other MMOs of the market do in the PvE end of things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bBvexxCyJo&feature=related

Anyway back to the topic at hand.  That link is a youtube video from the 2010 Pax video so it's almost a year off from release, but even at that, i hardly think the graphics are bad.  Not super realistic but really well done for the style they are going for.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Quests that you can actually change the outcome of based on your decision

This part is way over hyped,you will get imo 3-4 choices of dialogue to click,and most likely ONLY 2 choices to swing your quest,either towards the good side or the evil side.The other thought i had was,the quest swing will be weather or not the NPC stays with you or not,or fights alongside,not really anything that will change the game world,just always an IF/THEN statement.

You get three choices everytime light, dark, and grey. Your answer determines which branch of the plot the questline takes. Also there may be consequences for your decisions. To what degree there will be consequences, nobody knows, but that's an aspect of the game the developers are marketing. You're right that the consequences won't change the gameworld, but it will have an impact on your character. As for the npc's leaving you, your lightside/darkside points will determine that, not individual quests, so no that won't be the consequences they are talking about.

Yep, these graphics sure do suck. If you are going blind in both eyes.

fantasy literature based novel/movie

looks like a fantasy video game

call the president

Originally posted by Bahamut231

fantasy literature based novel/movie

looks like a fantasy video game

call the president

 Uhm . . . What?  Normally I am pretty good at reading between the lines, but this is just vague beyond belief.

Originally posted by musicmann

Yep, these graphics sure do suck. If you are going blind in both eyes.

 

 

I dont find them bad...I find them just....weird... but thats just me

my 2 cents..

When people say cartoonish graphics this is what i think...so is that how SWTOR looks to others?

Originally posted by Korithian

 They seem to have taken the WoW graphics model and thought thats the way to do it. What seems to have escaped their notice is that WoW is 6 years old, its unlikely Blizzard would opt to have the same cartoonish graphics again if they brought wow out this year.

So far EA or BW or LA whoever is responsible for the decisions on this game seem to rely too heavily on the names involved and not enough on the game. Which didn't work for WAR and it seems unlikely it will work for ToR.

 LOL That's funny because that's exactly what Blizzard did. They reinvented WoW and redesigned it entirely but did not improve the graphics even though they could. You may wonder why this is so but it's very simple... they would loose millions of subs because low end computers would not be able to run it. Its about being able to allow the most number of people to play the game in order to sell it.

As for ToR's graphics..  I wish I could tell you all about it but I cannot because I'm under an NDA but I think I'm safe saying the entire premise of this thread is not true imho.

Originally posted by musicmann

Yep, these graphics sure do suck. If you are going blind in both eyes.

 

 

I think those look alright for sure,i have not seen those before,i have only seen the actual gameplay videos.I think posting actual gameplay is a better indication,i would love to see some updated gameplay that looks this good.

Originally posted by musicmann

Yep, these graphics sure do suck. If you are going blind in both eyes.

 

 

I guess you are the one that's having viewing issues :0

First pic look like barbie doll: huge breast and impossibly thin waist.

Second one diablo/wow like spiky shoulder pads.

Third one is a decent clone trooper. The name of the game is clone wars, right? But I digress this pic is nice.

The last one isn't that bad either ;)

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by musicmann

Yep, these graphics sure do suck. If you are going blind in both eyes.

 

 

I guess you are the one that's having viewing issues :0

 

First pic look like barbie doll: huge breast and impossibly thin waist.

Second one diablo/wow like spiky shoulder pads.

Third one is a decent clone trooper. The name of the game is clone wars, right? But I digress this pic is nice.

The last one isn't that bad either ;)

Don't like it don't play it, simple.

Originally posted by slpr

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by musicmann

Yep, these graphics sure do suck. If you are going blind in both eyes.

 

I guess you are the one that's having viewing issues :0

 First pic look like barbie doll: huge breast and impossibly thin waist.

Second one diablo/wow like spiky shoulder pads.

Third one is a decent clone trooper. The name of the game is clone wars, right? But I digress this pic is nice.

The last one isn't that bad either ;)

Don't like it don't play it, simple.

 I agree slpr, if he doesn't like it, he shouldn't play it.  No skin off my back.  If anything it would make things MORE enjoyable for the rest of us.

Oh and Deewe, I disagree with you as well.  The style of the character is a little on the thin side, but that is probably to keep the characters from looking grossly disproportional when you put full armor on them.  It is even understandably in many cases that these kinds of warriors would try to keep "thin and flexible, yet strong" instead of the "unmoveable brute hulk" type that can't move very fast.  The one thing that does annoy me is the monstrous weaponry I sometimes see characters in the game using which seems to be a throwback to Japanese Animation instead of relying on a more tradtional and realistic weapons look.

Originally posted by jk3592

Did anyone post how horrible the graphics look b/c it does. I mean out of all the highly anticipated games coming out soon, SWTOR looks the worst. Skill animations look also pretty lame. Comparing it  to WOW's graphics, since it's so outdated now, I don't see that much of a difference. I mean other than it being Star Wars, I don't kno why so many people are so excited about this game, other than being Star Wars. Let's pretend this game wasn't Star Wars, would you be still so hyped about it. I kno hard it would be to forget the "Star Wars" part of it all but try very hard. 

The graphics are not bad. Graphics aren't the only thing anyways. Its gameplay that makes or breaks MMOs. Don't play it if you need highest end graphics for every new game just don't expect that in too many MMOs. Developers tend to want their product to play on as many systems as possible.

I'm not hyped cause it is Star Wars. I'm hyped cause its Bioware. I did like the KOTOR games too but I like alot of Bioware games.

My take on gaming in general is that story and gameplay are very important to any game. Graphics are up there but don't have to be top of the line for me at least.

Seems to me, they are making the art similar as SW: The Clone Wars has. You know that cartoon series...

Don't get me wrong, it doesn't look bad. It just isn't to my taste, I like more of the style KOTOR has.