Originally posted by Nikkita

Originally posted by Zeroxin

Originally posted by Nikkita

Originally posted by Zeroxin

Originally posted by Paradoxy

Originally posted by Zeroxin

Originally posted by Paradoxy

Its really an achievement to have so many ships in one place with beautiful wallpapers in background. ;p. take everything out in the surroundings in any fanatsy MMO, make the background bland and empty and i am sure you can have that many players in one place..

It's still 6x greater than what Rift claims to be "next gen".

Yeah because it is such a  fair comparison isn't it? comparing an empty space sci-fi MMO to fantasy genre which not only renders players and monsters but also other millions of objects in background?  people are really grasping at straws here to make a point. its like comparing apple to oranges.

Ok change the other 1500 players into NPCs and trees and what have you and you still basically have 1610 players battling it out with little to no lag.... apples and oranges... I think not

No its not seriously... it is like comparing apple to oranges. You think it takes same power to render ships as the buildings, rocks, grass, the entire forest and every little detail that goes with it? why are you even comapring EVE here? yes it is amazing for what it can do for a space sim but you can't use it to show how fantasy genre is incapable of holding that many players at one place.

Do you know how many different ships were in that battle?
 

3110 ships including capitals, dreadnaughts, Battleships, ships all freaking shapes and sizes and ships that can cover the whole map of Rift and you're telling me its not comparable? What kind of BS are you spouting? All those ships are firing at the same time, sending commands to the server on top of the fact that there are other battles going on elsewhere and everyone else is doing their own thing in other systems (Jita, basically the economic capital of Eve was still running without lag with about 1k people int he system at the time) WITHOUT LAG and you tell me its not comparable? Seriously, apples and oranges my arse..

I am not spouting BS i am just being sensible here and know that there is no comparison between the two. What EVE can do is great for space sim so should compare it to other sci-fi MMOS not to fanatsy genre. i seriously can't believe you are comparing thousand of ships to millions of objects which are rendered in fantasy mmos. Character models with armors,weapons, pets, mounts etc alone takes more power then what you can use to render those 3000+ ships.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/12/16/world-of-warcrafts-mad-cow-against-the-naked-orcs/

if WoW can hold that many people in one place without lag, then the amount of people Rift can hold isn't really special.

300 compared to 600 in Rift.. moreover Rift can generate those numbers without sacrfising graphical quality. unless you believe that WOW and Rift look the same?

Originally posted by Paradoxy

300 compared to 600 in Rift.. moreover Rift can generate those numbers without sacrfising graphical quality. unless you believe that WOW and Rift look the same?

300 is just an estimation. http://www.gamebreaker.tv/blog/legendary-theme-music/2010/12 if you watch this they mention that there is most likely far more than 300 people, and thats only counting the ones that were participating and not the people that just happened to be there.

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by Paradoxy

300 compared to 600 in Rift.. moreover Rift can generate those numbers without sacrfising graphical quality. unless you believe that WOW and Rift look the same?

300 is just an estimation. http://www.gamebreaker.tv/blog/legendary-theme-music/2010/12 if you watch this they mention that there is most likely far more than 300 people, and thats only counting the ones that were participating and not the people that just happened to be there.

Well first of all was there lag?  B/c the last time i played WoW and numbers like that were on the screen i was having 4-5 second lag minimum.  Its hard to tell how much lag is going on there b/c the guy taking the video literally just runs around and doesnt do anything

I remember Wintegrasps that had so much lag you would press and instant cast ability, run around for about 3 minutes, then the instant would go off.   The only way they were able to fix this is by creating a seperate WG instance that was limited to a certain number of players.

Edit:

But if this is real and there is no lag issues at all then grats to blizzard.  B/c WoW certianly never preformed that well when i played, and it was/is always better at large scale combat then most of the other mmos out there.

Originally posted by Azzkicka

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by Paradoxy

300 compared to 600 in Rift.. moreover Rift can generate those numbers without sacrfising graphical quality. unless you believe that WOW and Rift look the same?

300 is just an estimation. http://www.gamebreaker.tv/blog/legendary-theme-music/2010/12 if you watch this they mention that there is most likely far more than 300 people, and thats only counting the ones that were participating and not the people that just happened to be there.

Well first of all was there lag?  B/c the last time i played WoW and numbers like that were on the screen i was having 4-5 second lag minimum.  Its hard to tell how much lag is going on there b/c the guy taking the video literally just runs around and doesnt do anything

I remember Wintegrasps that had so much lag you would press and instant cast ability, run around for about 3 minutes, then the instant would go off.   The only way they were able to fix this is by creating a seperate WG instance that was limited to a certain number of players.

Same experience here. Blizzard even changed WG because of the lag induced by high numbers.

Originally posted by Azzkicka

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by Paradoxy

300 compared to 600 in Rift.. moreover Rift can generate those numbers without sacrfising graphical quality. unless you believe that WOW and Rift look the same?

300 is just an estimation. http://www.gamebreaker.tv/blog/legendary-theme-music/2010/12 if you watch this they mention that there is most likely far more than 300 people, and thats only counting the ones that were participating and not the people that just happened to be there.

Well first of all was there lag?  B/c the last time i played WoW and numbers like that were on the screen i was having 4-5 second lag minimum.  Its hard to tell how much lag is going on there b/c the guy taking the video literally just runs around and doesnt do anything

I remember Wintegrasps that had so much lag you would press and instant cast ability, run around for about 3 minutes, then the instant would go off.   The only way they were able to fix this is by creating a seperate WG instance that was limited to a certain number of players.

Edit:

But if this is real and there is no lag issues at all then grats to blizzard.  B/c WoW certianly never preformed that well when i played, and it was/is always better at large scale combat then most of the other mmos out there.

it is real. it took place during the after-party of the Legendary Podcast.

Great, so now MMORPG.COM columnists are actively defending MMORPGs with zero innovation and want people to stop criticise them. Really? I mean are there movie reviewers out there who honestly are bashing normal folks for not wanting to see LOTRO and Kill Bill copycats?

I know this site is dependant on paid ads from those devs but please, be a little more discrete about who's side you are on. 

And instead of being so condascending maybe you should try and understand why so many are so dissapointed about something that was obvious. Yes people should have expected yet another WoW clone but there are lots of us who are waiting for something to vitalize this decadent genre.

Originally posted by Yamota

Great, so now MMORPG.COM columnists are actively defending MMORPGs with zero innovation and want people to stop criticise them. Really? I mean are there movie reviewers out there who honestly are bashing normal folks for not wanting to see LOTRO and Kill Bill copycats?

I know this site is dependant on paid ads from those devs but please, be a little more discrete about who's side you are on. 

And instead of being so condascending maybe you should try and understand why so many are so dissapointed about something that was obvious. Yes people should have expected yet another WoW clone but there are lots of us who are waiting for something to vitalize this decadent genre.

 

 Trading viewpoints is a good thing.  I don't think anyone was suggesting constructive critisism is bad so don't do it.

People are free to defend a product for whatever reasons they feel justify it, so it's no skin off your nose, nothing to see here, move along.

Lastly, there is no such thing as a "WoW clone" given WoW isn't the wellspring of the genre.  "WoW clone" is typically bandied about by children who entered PC use around the time WoW was released. lmao.

The thing to focus on is:  Rift is in Beta, to be released in 2011.  Is it a good game worthy of a sub?  So far the consensus seems to be yes.

Given evolution is perpetual and never ending, the Smart Gamer will provide a detailed list of things they'd like to see in the game.  In other words, if you are so hot on seeing something representing the "next gen", something not "decadent", then LIST the criteria to be met by which that is measured.

That's constructive critisism.

Originally posted by Zeroxin

Originally posted by Amathe

""I agree with you. When TRION said 'next gen' they were talking about game engine and its ability to withstand huge amount of load. The last day event was most impressive. 500 players in one zone with 100's of mob spawned everywhere. the server didn't crash,"

 

If the above is true, that’s next-gen indeed."

 

Unless you count the Ring War in the Great Divide in original Everquest.

*Ahem*

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/10/30/the-largest-battle-ever-held-in-eve-online-is-going-on-right-now/

Next-gen? Yea fantasy games must be waaay behind if thats the case.

 

 Apples and Oranges graphics environments.

Trees, grass, bugs, leaves, et. al., probably play a big role in what has to be taken into account as opposed to mostly empty space and ships.

Still an impressive fleet engagement though.  I like EvE.  Well thought out game.

Originally posted by sas110

Sunglasses $15 ..Hand bags $33 ..Crocodile 13 U.S. dollars a T s***, want to buy then please go to this site:
 ========= http://www.fashiongoods.us =========

 Awww man Ive always wanted a T s*** !

I see that a lot of people are take next gen out  of context. Dose it have next gen graphics, yes so get over it. They may not have built a great new combat system because they want you to feel at home when you play it.

Its next gen in its own way. IT has next gen graphics,  server technology, evolving world (rifts poping up with death dumoing out of it). These are new things are they not. So it is next gen to a point just not next gen the way you want it to be and maybe the CEO stated more then they put in the game so what can it still be a great game yes and its only beta who knows what they have in store only time will tell. 

Anyways ill be in beta tuesday and see for myself.  If your looking for a new change to mmo's then keep waiting for GW2 as I am but this will be a great game to play till then and a nice break from WOW.

Originally posted by bigd525

I see that a lot of people are take next gen out  of context. Dose it have next gen graphics, yes so get over it. They may not have built a great new combat system because they want you to feel at home when you play it.

Its next gen in its own way. IT has next gen graphics,  server technology, evolving world (rifts poping up with death dumoing out of it). These are new things are they not. So it is next gen to a point just not next gen the way you want it to be and maybe the CEO stated more then they put in the game so what can it still be a great game yes and its only beta who knows what they have in store only time will tell. 

Anyways ill be in beta tuesday and see for myself.  If your looking for a new change to mmo's then keep waiting for GW2 as I am but this will be a great game to play till then and a nice break from WOW.

 

dumping*

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

Originally posted by Paradoxy

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

Originally posted by Nikkita

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

And according to you, your looking for more, to expand upon a definition to presuade someone that something isnt what itt is.  Thats ok.  There will always be 2-3-4 opposing points of view, and Im ok with that.  But dont think that your point of view is "the" one either.  I dont consider non-crashing servers playing into next-gen;I consider that doing their "job" when promoting a 'massively-multiplayer' platform.

Are you sure i am the one trying to persuade people here into believing something else? if you cared to read properly i never said you are wrong infact what i am saying is that you think that only your interpretation is right one.

No, I said everyone has an opinion and there are 2,3,4 opinions on the same subject, as there should be, and I'm ok with that.  However, now I have this experience of someone over-looking that in an attempt to draw an linear line to my opinion about Rift being more of an amalgamation than next-genertaion, that Trion has the potential to enhance the current crop of mmo features into one game that is more complete than most in the past 6-years, that I dont think that because they can keep their servers up and be stable on launch, that to me that isnt synonimous with "next' generation".  Just like someone trying to convince me that when I buy a car, the wheels wont come off when I'm 10-miles down the road; that's not next generation.

 

I can continue to exagerate too, but I'd rather not.  I'd like to be more subtle about my appreciation for Rift while using softer adjectives.

In other words you only want to see 'next gen' in your own way. Fair enough. But it still doesn't give you a right to point fingers and blame Trion for baiting players when according to you the meaning of what is 'next gen' is open for interpretation. For me 'next gen' is whole package.

I can't ignore the way dynamic events are handeled, soul system and the tech that finally makes it possible to have hundereds of players online at same time taking part in massive events. For me all of this is next gen because Rift made it possible and if other companies utilize this engine the dream of having 500+ player PVP would not just be a dream anymore.

I can understand that someone would want to "shut me up" or "invalidate" my thoughts, because my interpretation doesn't match theirs; I see it every day in all aspects of life.  And that's my point; yes I can point a finger at Trion and crtiicize them by saying their definition of "next-generation" is "not" encompassing of my interpretation or is not realized yet.  But at the same time, you might imply that "next-generation" is encompassing of your interpretation and already realized; pot to kettle.

 

Rift isnt the first game to have hundreds of players on line simultaneously taking part in massive events.  As a matter of observation, I haven't seen 100's of players within the same localized area, on-line, at the same event yet in Rift.  But we have all seen massively social worlds, with many, many people doing "things" simultaneously, but that isn't innovative, but standard.  However, I will say that was my most fun in Darkfall; where with greater server capacity and technology, the fortress/city raids would have been much more awesome, though they were great fun none-the-less with 100's of players in the same location attacking and defending with cause and purpose; not against unintelligent mobs on a leash, but cooperatively and competitively along with community members in an open world.  We can mix it up at another time about whether that transcends to real game-play value, tangible rewards, or motivating purpose for a realizable risk, loss or acquisition.

 

So, I'll continue to nit-pick as others will continue to praise, and when Les Buttler says "...we're no longer talking about a standard MMORPG for example, where every quest, every event is already mapped out and known..." I cant help but cringe and think that, but what I experienced is a game where you are forced along a Rail-Way with go here "--->"  to that spot "x" and kill 10 of those, grab this, come back here "x" and then go over there "!" and do it again, while you cant accomplish a heroic character and get good character developmental rewards by just doing dynamic Rift events, which occur pretty much in the same spot anyway.  But again, I too am generalizing, and my caveat is that I've only been in 2 Beta Events, and Im overly generalizing the critique just as others are overly generalizing the accolades & praise.

 

Again, I always try to inject my appreciation for Rift or potential appreciation, but with a governor.  For those that are skeptics or cautiously optomistic, like myself, with a hint of potential appreciation, Rift might be a bit more fun, more complete and polished than that which is currently available, particularly at launch; and that is a very positive thing.  I have not personaly experience something that amounts to flowing praise of next-generation, but an "amalgamation" of basic features from other mainstream mmo's, packaged into one, potentially polished at launch, which is a very pleasing experience. 

 

But until I experince the, as you are looking forward to, this 100's of players taking part in the same local event or 500 player PVP events, and experienceing the stability of their community-centric, involved, coopertaive and competitive open-world massively-multiplayer events, I'm not accepting it on face-value.

BTW, the guys name is Lars Butler, not Les Butler.  Now I see where a lot of the confusion comes from. I wouldn't buy a Les Butler game either but Lars and his team have made a very stable highly polished game that I enjoy playing

Great article.  I agree completely.

Originally posted by Yamota

-snip-

And instead of being so condascending maybe you should try and understand why so many are so dissapointed about something that was obvious. Yes people should have expected yet another WoW clone but there are lots of us who are waiting for something to vitalize this decadent genre.

 

 That's the crux of the matter.    One Saturday afternoon, oh 11-12 years ago, installed a new game on my computer, and popped into a world unlike anything I had imagined previously.    I remember the very strong impulse of "this is something I have to power through, figure out." Dozens of other characters wandering around, chat window bursting, taking a couple steps and falling off the platform in Kelethin, thud dead.    And backing off to try a warrior in a simpler setting (I later realized my ranger trainer was on the same platform where my first character was born, LOL.)

The problems with the game were legion, but it didn't stop me because it was so new and fresh and vital.   Nowadays the polish of games gets better and better.    That's good.  I have enjoyed playing many MMOs.    But it isn't the goal I am looking for---no, it is something like that experience so many years ago.   Maybe I should call it the "holy grail" of MMOs.   Maybe, since the reaction I had was because I was experiencing an entirely new genre for the first time, it is a contradiction  in terms.   The game I am looking for, perhaps, won't be called an MMO.   I don't know what it will be.   It will be buggy because it will be new.   There have  been vast improvements in MMOs in the last 10 years.   Fine.   But it's evolution, not revolution.

Congratulations all you fan boys "next gen" has now become the new tech speek for this game "works".

We have become sheep. 

Stupidly happy if a product actually works on release.

The game has boring combat and leads you by the nose from one leveling spot (quest hub) to the next.

Welcome to the new "next gen" - dumbed down for mass consumption with pretty graphics.

Originally posted by zigmund

Congratulations all you fan boys "next gen" has now become the new tech speek for this game "works".

We have become sheep. 

Stupidly happy if a product actually works on release.

The game has boring combat and leads you by the nose from one leveling spot (quest hub) to the next.

Welcome to the new "next gen" - dumbed down for mass consumption with pretty graphics.

Thanks for a very intelligent and thoughtful original opinion. It doesn't look like at all that you just copy pasted it from another 100 gaming forums on this website . Thanks for changing my life.

Merry Xmas!

Originally posted by zigmund

Congratulations all you fan boys "next gen" has now become the new tech speek for this game "works".

We have become sheep. 

Stupidly happy if a product actually works on release.

The game has boring combat and leads you by the nose from one leveling spot (quest hub) to the next.

Welcome to the new "next gen" - dumbed down for mass consumption with pretty graphics.

 

 There are no "fanbois".  Just people with differing opinions, even if the opinions are the same if anybody bothered to look closely (wink).

I'm all for "nextgen", "the next level", "progression and evolution", and new stuff. The problem is I don't see much in the way of information as to WHAT that's supposed to be . . . even from rabid "non-fanbois" like you.  All I hear is whining along the lines of "Ahhh (wahhhh!) it's not next gen stuff!", with no information as to what YOU consider nextgen / evolution.

It's easy to complain isn't it? :)

I will agree with you though, there is an unhappy trend in the MMO marketplace today, which is the dumbing down of products for mass consumption, oftentimes camoflaged with pretty graphics.

It's not just "dumbing" games down though.  It's SLOPPY products on release, it's denying playerbases the consideration of paying customers while instead treating them as a testing department for the vagaries of dev experimentation, etc. 

I'm looking forward to Rift to see if it FEELS like a gaming company made a game for gamers.  If they got that right, and got the "same oh same oh" right, the game is worth a sub to see if that will fund it to "nextgen heights".  I'm not out much, because I can unsubb as soon as it's not worth the sub anymore.

That's the attitude to take, because it gives new games a CHANCE.  Which they deserve.

Quote...

I appreciate it if you’ve read this far, and I’m cool with it if you want to slam me and tell me how off base or moronic I am, because honestly… that’s why I love it here.

Unfortunately MUCH less,even half hearted fun or not even poking any intent towards another user has been met with VERY loose moderation here on MMORPG.com.So although you say you are ok with it,the mods seem to have their own personal agenda.I am in the same boat as you ,i can handle someone telling me i am wrong or discussing how they feel what i said is wrong,i don't get all huffy,but again,mods here have made making any kind of discussion here uncomfotable,they are actually ruining the very essence of a DISCUSSION website/forum.

First up,i really have no beef at all with RIFT,i think it is a sort of cool game,so what i am about to say,i hope nobody holds it against me for speaking my mind on what i read from this article.

I think others may actually agree with me on this,but the article seems to be more or less acting defensively on behalf of Rift ,alot more so than giving us people who didn't get a chance to play it,the inside scoop on the goodies.

Like i said i am interested in RIFT and i do like what little i have seen,but i was not able to play the Beta .It was bascially a rant about forum users is what i got from this,not a big deal,but i had hoped for more about RIFT.I do understand the intent here,is that TRION delivered what they said they were going to ,so people shouldn't be expecting more,i do agree with that.

Dare i to give a reasonale reply to these post???..............not unless i want to get banned...what a fucking joke this site is.