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Originally posted by maskedweasel

Out of everything I've posted this is your major gripe.

In the end none of it matters because you don't utilize them for anything of purpose in CO,  you run around and PvE,  or PvP with your other heroes who mainly make premade builds and change them with every patch because you can respec whatever you want whenever you want with no consequence.
 
The game mechanics are much deeper then many people seem to be giving them credit for.   Its just not the boring auto attack combat CO decided to implement.    The combat isn't for everyone,  but just because people can't understand it or aren't good at it, doesn't mean it isn't deep.    
 
Combat doesn't have to be very "deep" either when its skill based.

---

It matters if someone is into themes, which most players are. They spend loads of time in the character creation making a particular toon to play. Travel powers lend to that feel of environment and developers know this. Otherwise, you'd have just one form of travel for everyone and they'd focus on gameplay. Speaking of which...

Deep is one person's opinion as you showed. You're even asking what "deep" really means. Rest assured and semantics aside, I think most people in general know what deep means in regards to gamplay.

You are correct about one thing though, games with gimmicks like this UI aren't for eveyone.

The gaming graveyard is chock full of neato games that a small percentage of people thought "Gee, this is SUPER cool UI and aiming feature and requires a lot of skill to play. I don't understand why our game is failing.. if people just weren't so stupid they'd see it's really a great game but not for everyone. But people just want to have skills labeled on the hotbar or they quit... morons!"

We will know in a year's time how this one with it's cool feature of "hide and go click" works out.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Out of everything I've posted this is your major gripe.

In the end none of it matters because you don't utilize them for anything of purpose in CO,  you run around and PvE,  or PvP with your other heroes who mainly make premade builds and change them with every patch because you can respec whatever you want whenever you want with no consequence.
 
The game mechanics are much deeper then many people seem to be giving them credit for.   Its just not the boring auto attack combat CO decided to implement.    The combat isn't for everyone,  but just because people can't understand it or aren't good at it, doesn't mean it isn't deep.    
 
Combat doesn't have to be very "deep" either when its skill based.

---

 

It matters if someone is into themes, which most players are. They spend loads of time in the character creation making a particular toon to play. Travel powers lend to that feel of environment and developers know this. Otherwise, you'd have just one form of travel for everyone and they'd focus on gameplay. Speaking of which...

 

Deep is one person's opinion as you showed. You're even asking what "deep" really means. Rest assured and semantics aside, I think most people in general know what deep means in regards to gamplay.

 

 

You are correct about one thing though, games with gimmicks like this UI aren't for eveyone.

 

The gaming graveyard is chock full of neato games that a small percentage of people thought "Gee, this is SUPER cool UI and aiming feature and requires a lot of skill to play. I don't understand why our game is failing.. if people just weren't so stupid they'd see it's really a great game but not for everyone. But people just want to have skills labeled on the hotbar or they quit... morons!"

 

 

We will know in a year's time how this one with it's cool feature of "hide and go click" works out.

I suppose we will.  I can already tell you though,  this game will do much better than CO.  It may not stand up to a powerhouse like SWTOR,  but this will become the dominant game in the super hero subgenre.  We can revisit this 6 months after release and see.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Out of everything I've posted this is your major gripe.

In the end none of it matters because you don't utilize them for anything of purpose in CO,  you run around and PvE,  or PvP with your other heroes who mainly make premade builds and change them with every patch because you can respec whatever you want whenever you want with no consequence.
 
The game mechanics are much deeper then many people seem to be giving them credit for.   Its just not the boring auto attack combat CO decided to implement.    The combat isn't for everyone,  but just because people can't understand it or aren't good at it, doesn't mean it isn't deep.    
 
Combat doesn't have to be very "deep" either when its skill based.

---

 

It matters if someone is into themes, which most players are. They spend loads of time in the character creation making a particular toon to play. Travel powers lend to that feel of environment and developers know this. Otherwise, you'd have just one form of travel for everyone and they'd focus on gameplay. Speaking of which...

 

Deep is one person's opinion as you showed. You're even asking what "deep" really means. Rest assured and semantics aside, I think most people in general know what deep means in regards to gamplay.

 

 

You are correct about one thing though, games with gimmicks like this UI aren't for eveyone.

 

The gaming graveyard is chock full of neato games that a small percentage of people thought "Gee, this is SUPER cool UI and aiming feature and requires a lot of skill to play. I don't understand why our game is failing.. if people just weren't so stupid they'd see it's really a great game but not for everyone. But people just want to have skills labeled on the hotbar or they quit... morons!"

 

 

We will know in a year's time how this one with it's cool feature of "hide and go click" works out.

I suppose we will.  I can already tell you though,  this game will do much better than CO.  It may not stand up to a powerhouse like SWTOR,  but this will become the dominant game in the super hero subgenre.  We can revisit this 6 months after release and see.

 Doing better than CO is damning with faint praise.   

I also don't care for the DCOA UI.  Didn't like the clickety click mouse manipulation aspect of so many of the powers.   Though that is a personal call.  Still, the interface is enough to make me pretty much write off playing the game. 

Also not so enthused with the supposed humor combined with the over the top Mwaaahaaaha of the villains.  I mean, The Flash making a 'Back in a Flash' joke?  C'mon. 

Perhaps we have different ideas about what we expect from a Supers MMO? This may answer the difference of opinion in the dumbed down / casual debate. I come from a CoX background, I expect a Supers MMO to have a depth at least as good as that MMO. If I came from a CO background my standards would not be as high, as CO is a more casual game.

Originally posted by Arglebargle

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Out of everything I've posted this is your major gripe.

In the end none of it matters because you don't utilize them for anything of purpose in CO,  you run around and PvE,  or PvP with your other heroes who mainly make premade builds and change them with every patch because you can respec whatever you want whenever you want with no consequence.
 
The game mechanics are much deeper then many people seem to be giving them credit for.   Its just not the boring auto attack combat CO decided to implement.    The combat isn't for everyone,  but just because people can't understand it or aren't good at it, doesn't mean it isn't deep.    
 
Combat doesn't have to be very "deep" either when its skill based.

---

 

It matters if someone is into themes, which most players are. They spend loads of time in the character creation making a particular toon to play. Travel powers lend to that feel of environment and developers know this. Otherwise, you'd have just one form of travel for everyone and they'd focus on gameplay. Speaking of which...

 

Deep is one person's opinion as you showed. You're even asking what "deep" really means. Rest assured and semantics aside, I think most people in general know what deep means in regards to gamplay.

 

 

You are correct about one thing though, games with gimmicks like this UI aren't for eveyone.

 

The gaming graveyard is chock full of neato games that a small percentage of people thought "Gee, this is SUPER cool UI and aiming feature and requires a lot of skill to play. I don't understand why our game is failing.. if people just weren't so stupid they'd see it's really a great game but not for everyone. But people just want to have skills labeled on the hotbar or they quit... morons!"

 

 

We will know in a year's time how this one with it's cool feature of "hide and go click" works out.

I suppose we will.  I can already tell you though,  this game will do much better than CO.  It may not stand up to a powerhouse like SWTOR,  but this will become the dominant game in the super hero subgenre.  We can revisit this 6 months after release and see.

 Doing better than CO is damning with faint praise.   

 

I also don't care for the DCOA UI.  Didn't like the clickety click mouse manipulation aspect of so many of the powers.   Though that is a personal call.  Still, the interface is enough to make me pretty much write off playing the game. 

 

Also not so enthused with the supposed humor combined with the over the top Mwaaahaaaha of the villains.  I mean, The Flash making a 'Back in a Flash' joke?  C'mon. 

 I guess you missed the part where the game was based of a comic book property.  It is going to have its over the top and stupid jokes.  I mean the Flash makes stupid jokes all the time some funny some not so much it is what the character does.  Over the top is comic books.  I mean how more over the top can you get than Superman?

I played in the beta a bit, not a bad game but by level 9 or so I was so bored that I logged out and never went back, They got a good concept but the combat is far to overly repetive, and the missions got boring really quick since its essentally the same stuff over and over. Mainly it was the bland combat system that turned me off to the game.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by maskedweasel
 
3 Travel powers?  Acrobatics has 2 different modes of travel built in,  super speed has speed force to increase the speed by double and so does flight.  You can run up walls with super speed,  can't do that in CO or CoX.  You can cling to walls, use zip lines, double jump,  the system is more robust mechanically then CoX or CO could dream of ever making.
 

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This is so disengenious, it's not even funny.

 

You're really trying to defend the travel powers in DCUO vs Champions?

Champions Travel Powers:

?Flight - The standard for comparison.
?Superspeed - Fastest travel power; restricted to ground movement.
?Teleportation - Only inertia-free travel power; requires constant reactivation.
?Swinging - Least precise, most engaging; requires constant reactivation.
?Jet Boots - Fastest flight; slowest acceleration, no jetpack option.
?Fire Flight - Flight, but with colored flame aura.
?Earth Flight - Flight, but with a chunk of whatever you were standing on.
?Super Jump - Slow walking, fast and high jumping; can't reach all rooftops.
?Acrobatics - Run fast, jump high; not as fast or as high as Super Speed or Super Jump.
?Ice Slide - Faster and harder to corner than flight; sinks downwards.
?Tunneling - Avoid enemies - and lofty places.
?Rocket Jump - Superjump, now with more science.
?Hover Disk - Fast, flying, color options; no shape options, worst cornering.

 

 

And they had all those travel powers at launch as far as I remember.

 

 

The game mechanics in this game aren't that deep. They aren't bad but seriuosly friend.. you know they aren't deep at all as a MMO player.

Out of everything I've posted this is your major gripe.

Earth flight is almost the exact same as ice slide, which is the same as fire flight, which is the same as flight which is the same as hover disk.  The nuances don't even matter, its pretty much all the same mode of travel,  you just have to decide if you want to gimp your character or not.   Aside from the fact that all they are are travel powers, and the only one that actually has any sort of functionality is teleportation because you can get away when you're in the middle of battle, everything else is pretty much just flash with nothing to show for it.

 

In the end none of it matters because you don't utilize them for anything of purpose in CO,  you run around and PvE,  or PvP with your other heroes who mainly make premade builds and change them with every patch because you can respec whatever you want whenever you want with no consequence.

 

The game mechanics are much deeper then many people seem to be giving them credit for.   Its just not the boring auto attack combat CO decided to implement.    The combat isn't for everyone,  but just because people can't understand it or aren't good at it, doesn't mean it isn't deep.    

 

Combat doesn't have to be very "deep" either when its skill based.  If by "deep" as an MMO player you mean getting 20 skills on a bunch of bars and sitting there hitting one key after another, being stuck in a particular role, and having gear and predetermined abilities mean more than player skill,  then this non-deep kind of combat is quite a breath of fresh air.

 

While SOE has plenty of bugs to take care of before launch,  they've nailed the basic framework.  Costume pieces and content is quite literally a trivial matter as these grow over time and are merely aesthetic.  The underlying gameplay is what will keep much of the population and they've hit that out of the park.

Sorry to say, but saying that ice slide and earth flight are the same pretty much shown that either you have not use them or you are simplifying things a lot. Ice slide works with high inertia just like sort kind of skating that make them difficult to control a bit but more fun depending on the theme of your character.

While travel powers in DCUO has a tree of skills, they are actually powers that counts to the 6 power limits in the hotbar. So saying that in DCUO you can use your travel power to hit somebody is partially true but what it is not said is that you need to have the skill mapped into your hotbar like any other power. If we take them like that we could count lunges and some repels from CO and CoX are travel power skills, the main difference is that you can take them independent from your travel power. 

About the CO autoattack, again I am not sure if you actually understand CO mechanics, energy builder as its name shown is for getting energy for the other powers. However, they are not the only source of energy in the game, depending on your build it can even be possible to neglect the energy builder in most combats.  So the main difference is that I use energy builder in worst cases about 40%(low levels), most cases at high level 10-15% of the time. While in DCUO you have to use weapons about 70% of the time. 

I think you said that weapons are the bread and butter of DCUO, which I agree but the problem is that they are mostly better than powers and are required to generate energy. So Weapons >>> Powers which in imho is kind of weird for a superhero mmo. I have said many times that I like the idea of powers and weapons separated but they are still indeed linked but not complementary since weapons don't cost energy, produce energy so powers are dependant on them and they are pretty powerful.

DCUO has great qualities but it is not really superior to either CO or CoX, since they went for a completely different crowd.

I have tried a bit ice and concentrating on fire at this point, which set do you think is the deepest one? and which weapon would be good for it. I am all for trying it, so I might change my current perception on DCUO.

It is a fun game but The PC version is so delayed, laggy, glitch, world down glitch-fun and occasional random crash here n there but other then that i like it a lot

Originally posted by Edd213

It is a fun game but The PC version is so delayed, laggy, glitch, world down glitch-fun and occasional random crash here n there but other then that i like it a lot

 I don't believe the PC version was anymore delayed than the PS3 version.  I also don't know about "so delayed".  They have only delayed it once.  They only set one date and then delayed that date.

There is no lack of content .. jeez, im no fan of current DCO (yes im in beta)  but holy crap, who says there is lack of content is likely attact by servere blindness. 

I got my char up to lvl 20 (currect server cap)  and have done over 130 mission in the past 3 days :P 

you start whit one contact..you do missions , you turn them in.  (your lvl 8-+ now) hey look..in the journal more mission..however next missions of Lex are lvl 12..hmm im level 8..lets go do a few for circle..those are lvl 5-8 and lets do the other contact also..

there done..all level 5-8 missions done, crap! im level 14 now!  let do lex again.. or shall i do the instances ? (allerts/pvp) 

perhaps a little sightseeing tour mission..theya re silly but give easy xp..or perhaps one of the many race tracks , those have great xp.

serious guys. the game has some mayor flaws in my few but content is not one of them at all.   and when was the last game you ever worked for a single contact/quest giver?

the idea is you do them all, so your renown whit those fractions goos up. that will enable you later in the game to buy all ionic armor sets and mix match those to your own likening whit the more regulair sets and pieces.

its a great MMOAG  (massive multi online action game) they jsut gota work on the UI (but its clear its a work in progress) and a few other things but its a beta.. the bank action house, tailor ..  they all aint even in game yet. there are bugs random wierdness.

my main iseu  is it being a MMOAG  and not a MMORPG  sofar, no social gameplay at all , nearly everyting is soloable (expect openworld bosses)  once I played the game a day I made a new toon and since then have not died a single time in any of the instanced missions till now (lvl20) and got the "hard" feats - means you do use any special "charge or ionic powers" during the mission to defeat it. - on all but one mission..darn misclick :P

People will be suprided how much fun this game really is. Infact it is so much fun I'm hoping Guild Wars 2 will be delayed so I  can play more DCUO. I know it is odd for me to say that but the game is just way too much fun and that is a good thing. The game has its flaws(minor ones) but there is nothing that they can't fix.

Originally posted by Eladi

There is no lack of content .. jeez, im no fan of current DCO (yes im in beta)  but holy crap, who says there is lack of content is likely attact by servere blindness. 

I agree this games problem is not content. There is plenty of things to do. They just need to make UI more smooth and fix that horrible chat box. Some more customization for body, face and hair would be nice too. This is where game is lacking not in content part. COH and CO character customization is far superior to DCUO. And i just can't get over it.

Sorry to interrupt the discussion, but I have a question: If I pre-order, do I get the beta access instantly?

Thanks!!!

Originally posted by gandales

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by maskedweasel
 
3 Travel powers?  Acrobatics has 2 different modes of travel built in,  super speed has speed force to increase the speed by double and so does flight.  You can run up walls with super speed,  can't do that in CO or CoX.  You can cling to walls, use zip lines, double jump,  the system is more robust mechanically then CoX or CO could dream of ever making.
 

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This is so disengenious, it's not even funny.

 

You're really trying to defend the travel powers in DCUO vs Champions?

Champions Travel Powers:

?Flight - The standard for comparison.
?Superspeed - Fastest travel power; restricted to ground movement.
?Teleportation - Only inertia-free travel power; requires constant reactivation.
?Swinging - Least precise, most engaging; requires constant reactivation.
?Jet Boots - Fastest flight; slowest acceleration, no jetpack option.
?Fire Flight - Flight, but with colored flame aura.
?Earth Flight - Flight, but with a chunk of whatever you were standing on.
?Super Jump - Slow walking, fast and high jumping; can't reach all rooftops.
?Acrobatics - Run fast, jump high; not as fast or as high as Super Speed or Super Jump.
?Ice Slide - Faster and harder to corner than flight; sinks downwards.
?Tunneling - Avoid enemies - and lofty places.
?Rocket Jump - Superjump, now with more science.
?Hover Disk - Fast, flying, color options; no shape options, worst cornering.

 

 

And they had all those travel powers at launch as far as I remember.

 

 

The game mechanics in this game aren't that deep. They aren't bad but seriuosly friend.. you know they aren't deep at all as a MMO player.

Out of everything I've posted this is your major gripe.

Earth flight is almost the exact same as ice slide, which is the same as fire flight, which is the same as flight which is the same as hover disk.  The nuances don't even matter, its pretty much all the same mode of travel,  you just have to decide if you want to gimp your character or not.   Aside from the fact that all they are are travel powers, and the only one that actually has any sort of functionality is teleportation because you can get away when you're in the middle of battle, everything else is pretty much just flash with nothing to show for it.

 

In the end none of it matters because you don't utilize them for anything of purpose in CO,  you run around and PvE,  or PvP with your other heroes who mainly make premade builds and change them with every patch because you can respec whatever you want whenever you want with no consequence.

 

The game mechanics are much deeper then many people seem to be giving them credit for.   Its just not the boring auto attack combat CO decided to implement.    The combat isn't for everyone,  but just because people can't understand it or aren't good at it, doesn't mean it isn't deep.    

 

Combat doesn't have to be very "deep" either when its skill based.  If by "deep" as an MMO player you mean getting 20 skills on a bunch of bars and sitting there hitting one key after another, being stuck in a particular role, and having gear and predetermined abilities mean more than player skill,  then this non-deep kind of combat is quite a breath of fresh air.

 

While SOE has plenty of bugs to take care of before launch,  they've nailed the basic framework.  Costume pieces and content is quite literally a trivial matter as these grow over time and are merely aesthetic.  The underlying gameplay is what will keep much of the population and they've hit that out of the park.

Sorry to say, but saying that ice slide and earth flight are the same pretty much shown that either you have not use them or you are simplifying things a lot. Ice slide works with high inertia just like sort kind of skating that make them difficult to control a bit but more fun depending on the theme of your character.

 

They are just different animations to do the same basic stuff.  Like the difference between using a jetpack or wings, on DCUO.  The problem with CO is,  they aren't functional in any kind of true combat situation, even with the stupid little buffs they try to give to defense or the added attack when landing, or jumping.  These are just additional animations to do the same stuff, and then they add some wonky control scheme and somehow it makes it better?  More options are great,  purposefully decreasing functionality in favor of those options -- thats a judgement call,  and one I care very little to make in a game with actual functional PvP.

 

While travel powers in DCUO has a tree of skills, they are actually powers that counts to the 6 power limits in the hotbar. So saying that in DCUO you can use your travel power to hit somebody is partially true but what it is not said is that you need to have the skill mapped into your hotbar like any other power. If we take them like that we could count lunges and some repels from CO and CoX are travel power skills, the main difference is that you can take them independent from your travel power. 

 

Though, you have all of your basic attacks that don't count as part of the 6 on your skill bar.  Secondly,  you can make an entire character based around super speed movements, or just flying attacks,  you can't do that on CO or CoX.  

 

About the CO autoattack, again I am not sure if you actually understand CO mechanics, energy builder as its name shown is for getting energy for the other powers. However, they are not the only source of energy in the game, depending on your build it can even be possible to neglect the energy builder in most combats.  So the main difference is that I use energy builder in worst cases about 40%(low levels), most cases at high level 10-15% of the time. While in DCUO you have to use weapons about 70% of the time. 

 

Please read my initial report on CO when it came out of beta,  I know all about their "broken" (my words not yours) energy builder, and was against it when I was testing CO.  Yes you can remove the energy builder later on,  but you mostly are stuck within a particular build to do that.  You have a particular innate that you choose that allows for it.    As for using weapons in DCUO 70% of the time,  again thats dependent on your build.  In my controller role I can kill other players using nothing but my gadget powers.   I can use my powers literally 100% of the time in most battles, which decreases on large bosses.    Separately though, you gain energy outside of combat,  no ridiculous amount of spec'ing,  you can start every battle with your best powers available (minus the supercharge of course).    As for attack skills,  you have a number of options on how to attack. You can choose a combo attack plan, or plan a defensive strategy that revolves around your skills and adapting to the situation.  Its not just relying on the powers you choose, but how you play your character which can turn a battle. 

 

I think you said that weapons are the bread and butter of DCUO, which I agree but the problem is that they are mostly better than powers and are required to generate energy. So Weapons >>> Powers which in imho is kind of weird for a superhero mmo. I have said many times that I like the idea of powers and weapons separated but they are still indeed linked but not complementary since weapons don't cost energy, produce energy so powers are dependant on them and they are pretty powerful.

 

This depends on what you mean as "better".  In a controller role, you can sufficiently stun someone to death.  At level 10 I've taken out level 20s without swinging my weapon once.  Healers rely on heals quite heavily, and use them often, though they expend energy much more then a controller.  Heals are vital for big groups,  and they're even more vital to keep a player alive if they're doing 1v1 because they don't have the luxury of attack powers. Fire and ice abilities are very strong against multiple enemies, and fire has some great options for 1v1, and even 2v1.  Being able to use specific tactics and capitalize your power usage is key in staying alive as a pure damage dealer (even in a tank role).

 

DCUO has great qualities but it is not really superior to either CO or CoX, since they went for a completely different crowd.

I have tried a bit ice and concentrating on fire at this point, which set do you think is the deepest one? and which weapon would be good for it. I am all for trying it, so I might change my current perception on DCUO.

 

 

Between the two, for survivability sake, I'd say fire is better. For one,  the tank role actually works, you can take much more damage as you have a larger health bar.  If you decide to go that route, and play more of a tank style, I'd say capitalize on the extra health by choosing a power with strong innates that are pro defense.  Brawling has some health increases to it,  staff has defense.  I believe dual wield also has defense.  Eventually you'll be dual, triple or quadruple spec'ing your weapon skills to maximize your innates anyways, so the initial one is trivial.   Even 2H has some health buffs in it, and it seems pretty popular.  The smaller, quicker weapons are more my style though, like one handed, dual pistols, dual wield,  and martial arts, (when they fix it,  don't try it now).  

 

What I'm saying here is that more options can always be added,  but the basic mechanics of the game will always be the same.  They can add a rock flight animation if they wanted to,  or have some sort of green lantern ring aura flight,  or maybe some form of teleportation.  They have their basics down which to me, is more important.

"When I sit down to my desk and would prefer to log into a fleeting beta experience over anything that’s actually in a live state, that’s a pretty good tell that a game has me."

Thats exactly how ive felt. Ive played tons of games in the last few months and i was subscribed to WoW (6 years) until i played this beta. I was still playing with the idea of cancelling my WoW sub and after i played about an hour of this game i cancelled WoW.

This games a blast.

Originally posted by vboydjr

Originally posted by Edd213

It is a fun game but The PC version is so delayed, laggy, glitch, world down glitch-fun and occasional random crash here n there but other then that i like it a lot

 I don't believe the PC version was anymore delayed than the PS3 version.  I also don't know about "so delayed".  They have only delayed it once.  They only set one date and then delayed that date.

by Delayed i mean the content for your character occasionally doesn't load up at the appropriate time 

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by gandales

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by maskedweasel
 
3 Travel powers?  Acrobatics has 2 different modes of travel built in,  super speed has speed force to increase the speed by double and so does flight.  You can run up walls with super speed,  can't do that in CO or CoX.  You can cling to walls, use zip lines, double jump,  the system is more robust mechanically then CoX or CO could dream of ever making.
 

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This is so disengenious, it's not even funny.

 

You're really trying to defend the travel powers in DCUO vs Champions?

Champions Travel Powers:

?Flight - The standard for comparison.
?Superspeed - Fastest travel power; restricted to ground movement.
?Teleportation - Only inertia-free travel power; requires constant reactivation.
?Swinging - Least precise, most engaging; requires constant reactivation.
?Jet Boots - Fastest flight; slowest acceleration, no jetpack option.
?Fire Flight - Flight, but with colored flame aura.
?Earth Flight - Flight, but with a chunk of whatever you were standing on.
?Super Jump - Slow walking, fast and high jumping; can't reach all rooftops.
?Acrobatics - Run fast, jump high; not as fast or as high as Super Speed or Super Jump.
?Ice Slide - Faster and harder to corner than flight; sinks downwards.
?Tunneling - Avoid enemies - and lofty places.
?Rocket Jump - Superjump, now with more science.
?Hover Disk - Fast, flying, color options; no shape options, worst cornering.

 

 

And they had all those travel powers at launch as far as I remember.

 

 

The game mechanics in this game aren't that deep. They aren't bad but seriuosly friend.. you know they aren't deep at all as a MMO player.

Out of everything I've posted this is your major gripe.

Earth flight is almost the exact same as ice slide, which is the same as fire flight, which is the same as flight which is the same as hover disk.  The nuances don't even matter, its pretty much all the same mode of travel,  you just have to decide if you want to gimp your character or not.   Aside from the fact that all they are are travel powers, and the only one that actually has any sort of functionality is teleportation because you can get away when you're in the middle of battle, everything else is pretty much just flash with nothing to show for it.

 

In the end none of it matters because you don't utilize them for anything of purpose in CO,  you run around and PvE,  or PvP with your other heroes who mainly make premade builds and change them with every patch because you can respec whatever you want whenever you want with no consequence.

 

The game mechanics are much deeper then many people seem to be giving them credit for.   Its just not the boring auto attack combat CO decided to implement.    The combat isn't for everyone,  but just because people can't understand it or aren't good at it, doesn't mean it isn't deep.    

 

Combat doesn't have to be very "deep" either when its skill based.  If by "deep" as an MMO player you mean getting 20 skills on a bunch of bars and sitting there hitting one key after another, being stuck in a particular role, and having gear and predetermined abilities mean more than player skill,  then this non-deep kind of combat is quite a breath of fresh air.

 

While SOE has plenty of bugs to take care of before launch,  they've nailed the basic framework.  Costume pieces and content is quite literally a trivial matter as these grow over time and are merely aesthetic.  The underlying gameplay is what will keep much of the population and they've hit that out of the park.

Sorry to say, but saying that ice slide and earth flight are the same pretty much shown that either you have not use them or you are simplifying things a lot. Ice slide works with high inertia just like sort kind of skating that make them difficult to control a bit but more fun depending on the theme of your character.

 

They are just different animations to do the same basic stuff.  Like the difference between using a jetpack or wings, on DCUO.  The problem with CO is,  they aren't functional in any kind of true combat situation, even with the stupid little buffs they try to give to defense or the added attack when landing, or jumping.  These are just additional animations to do the same stuff, and then they add some wonky control scheme and somehow it makes it better?  More options are great,  purposefully decreasing functionality in favor of those options -- thats a judgement call,  and one I care very little to make in a game with actual functional PvP.

 

While travel powers in DCUO has a tree of skills, they are actually powers that counts to the 6 power limits in the hotbar. So saying that in DCUO you can use your travel power to hit somebody is partially true but what it is not said is that you need to have the skill mapped into your hotbar like any other power. If we take them like that we could count lunges and some repels from CO and CoX are travel power skills, the main difference is that you can take them independent from your travel power. 

 

Though, you have all of your basic attacks that don't count as part of the 6 on your skill bar.  Secondly,  you can make an entire character based around super speed movements, or just flying attacks,  you can't do that on CO or CoX.  

 

About the CO autoattack, again I am not sure if you actually understand CO mechanics, energy builder as its name shown is for getting energy for the other powers. However, they are not the only source of energy in the game, depending on your build it can even be possible to neglect the energy builder in most combats.  So the main difference is that I use energy builder in worst cases about 40%(low levels), most cases at high level 10-15% of the time. While in DCUO you have to use weapons about 70% of the time. 

 

Please read my initial report on CO when it came out of beta,  I know all about their "broken" (my words not yours) energy builder, and was against it when I was testing CO.  Yes you can remove the energy builder later on,  but you mostly are stuck within a particular build to do that.  You have a particular innate that you choose that allows for it.    As for using weapons in DCUO 70% of the time,  again thats dependent on your build.  In my controller role I can kill other players using nothing but my gadget powers.   I can use my powers literally 100% of the time in most battles, which decreases on large bosses.    Separately though, you gain energy outside of combat,  no ridiculous amount of spec'ing,  you can start every battle with your best powers available (minus the supercharge of course).    As for attack skills,  you have a number of options on how to attack. You can choose a combo attack plan, or plan a defensive strategy that revolves around your skills and adapting to the situation.  Its not just relying on the powers you choose, but how you play your character which can turn a battle. 

 

I think you said that weapons are the bread and butter of DCUO, which I agree but the problem is that they are mostly better than powers and are required to generate energy. So Weapons >>> Powers which in imho is kind of weird for a superhero mmo. I have said many times that I like the idea of powers and weapons separated but they are still indeed linked but not complementary since weapons don't cost energy, produce energy so powers are dependant on them and they are pretty powerful.

 

This depends on what you mean as "better".  In a controller role, you can sufficiently stun someone to death.  At level 10 I've taken out level 20s without swinging my weapon once.  Healers rely on heals quite heavily, and use them often, though they expend energy much more then a controller.  Heals are vital for big groups,  and they're even more vital to keep a player alive if they're doing 1v1 because they don't have the luxury of attack powers. Fire and ice abilities are very strong against multiple enemies, and fire has some great options for 1v1, and even 2v1.  Being able to use specific tactics and capitalize your power usage is key in staying alive as a pure damage dealer (even in a tank role).

 

DCUO has great qualities but it is not really superior to either CO or CoX, since they went for a completely different crowd.

I have tried a bit ice and concentrating on fire at this point, which set do you think is the deepest one? and which weapon would be good for it. I am all for trying it, so I might change my current perception on DCUO.

 

 

Between the two, for survivability sake, I'd say fire is better. For one,  the tank role actually works, you can take much more damage as you have a larger health bar.  If you decide to go that route, and play more of a tank style, I'd say capitalize on the extra health by choosing a power with strong innates that are pro defense.  Brawling has some health increases to it,  staff has defense.  I believe dual wield also has defense.  Eventually you'll be dual, triple or quadruple spec'ing your weapon skills to maximize your innates anyways, so the initial one is trivial.   Even 2H has some health buffs in it, and it seems pretty popular.  The smaller, quicker weapons are more my style though, like one handed, dual pistols, dual wield,  and martial arts, (when they fix it,  don't try it now).  

 

 

What I'm saying here is that more options can always be added,  but the basic mechanics of the game will always be the same.  They can add a rock flight animation if they wanted to,  or have some sort of green lantern ring aura flight,  or maybe some form of teleportation.  They have their basics down which to me, is more important.

It is true that flight, fire flight, jet boots, earth and disk flight are essentially same power with different animations and speed parameters, but ice slide does not work as flight since it needs to be powered to keep it moving, if you have played it you surely know what I mean. However, this is not really the point here. 

Resummarizing travel powers:

1) Flights

2) slide

3) superspeed (there is sonic the hedgehog version from crafting)

4) acrobatics

5) Jumps

6) teleport

7) swinging

8) tunneling

Certainly DCUO travel powers are richer than CO ones but some of those travel power skills can be found in CoX powersets like storm and kinetics, so might it better to actual decouple those powers from the actual travel power in order to give more flexibility of builds. 

I just read your review of CO beta, and it might be true in some way that energy builders, still is only a really low levels. Btw, melee energy builders build energy at range and with short cooldown lunges, melee are now kings of pve and pvp. I really think you understimate CO combat depth, it might not have combos but there are many variables involved and imho gives good action an reactive combat without being button smashing intensive. But I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

I am having fun in the DCUO beta, but I will stay in CO or CoX . It might be related to my lack of pvp spirit.

Back to DCUO build consultation, I am almost 20, and I think I got all the brawler skills I wanted, I think I should go to staff now, I got a few stun reduction from superspeed skills. My bar is immolation, flashpoint, fiery sword, backdraft, eternal flame and some other rechargeable health recover skill.

Doesnt look bad but to bad its SOE so , no no no for me. I wil NEVER ever forgive you for NGE. To all of you that play/will play i wish a lot of fun

Originally posted by gandales

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by gandales

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by maskedweasel
 
3 Travel powers?  Acrobatics has 2 different modes of travel built in,  super speed has speed force to increase the speed by double and so does flight.  You can run up walls with super speed,  can't do that in CO or CoX.  You can cling to walls, use zip lines, double jump,  the system is more robust mechanically then CoX or CO could dream of ever making.
 

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This is so disengenious, it's not even funny.

 

You're really trying to defend the travel powers in DCUO vs Champions?

Champions Travel Powers:

?Flight - The standard for comparison.
?Superspeed - Fastest travel power; restricted to ground movement.
?Teleportation - Only inertia-free travel power; requires constant reactivation.
?Swinging - Least precise, most engaging; requires constant reactivation.
?Jet Boots - Fastest flight; slowest acceleration, no jetpack option.
?Fire Flight - Flight, but with colored flame aura.
?Earth Flight - Flight, but with a chunk of whatever you were standing on.
?Super Jump - Slow walking, fast and high jumping; can't reach all rooftops.
?Acrobatics - Run fast, jump high; not as fast or as high as Super Speed or Super Jump.
?Ice Slide - Faster and harder to corner than flight; sinks downwards.
?Tunneling - Avoid enemies - and lofty places.
?Rocket Jump - Superjump, now with more science.
?Hover Disk - Fast, flying, color options; no shape options, worst cornering.

 

 

And they had all those travel powers at launch as far as I remember.

 

 

The game mechanics in this game aren't that deep. They aren't bad but seriuosly friend.. you know they aren't deep at all as a MMO player.

Out of everything I've posted this is your major gripe.

Earth flight is almost the exact same as ice slide, which is the same as fire flight, which is the same as flight which is the same as hover disk.  The nuances don't even matter, its pretty much all the same mode of travel,  you just have to decide if you want to gimp your character or not.   Aside from the fact that all they are are travel powers, and the only one that actually has any sort of functionality is teleportation because you can get away when you're in the middle of battle, everything else is pretty much just flash with nothing to show for it.

 

In the end none of it matters because you don't utilize them for anything of purpose in CO,  you run around and PvE,  or PvP with your other heroes who mainly make premade builds and change them with every patch because you can respec whatever you want whenever you want with no consequence.

 

The game mechanics are much deeper then many people seem to be giving them credit for.   Its just not the boring auto attack combat CO decided to implement.    The combat isn't for everyone,  but just because people can't understand it or aren't good at it, doesn't mean it isn't deep.    

 

Combat doesn't have to be very "deep" either when its skill based.  If by "deep" as an MMO player you mean getting 20 skills on a bunch of bars and sitting there hitting one key after another, being stuck in a particular role, and having gear and predetermined abilities mean more than player skill,  then this non-deep kind of combat is quite a breath of fresh air.

 

While SOE has plenty of bugs to take care of before launch,  they've nailed the basic framework.  Costume pieces and content is quite literally a trivial matter as these grow over time and are merely aesthetic.  The underlying gameplay is what will keep much of the population and they've hit that out of the park.

Sorry to say, but saying that ice slide and earth flight are the same pretty much shown that either you have not use them or you are simplifying things a lot. Ice slide works with high inertia just like sort kind of skating that make them difficult to control a bit but more fun depending on the theme of your character.

 

They are just different animations to do the same basic stuff.  Like the difference between using a jetpack or wings, on DCUO.  The problem with CO is,  they aren't functional in any kind of true combat situation, even with the stupid little buffs they try to give to defense or the added attack when landing, or jumping.  These are just additional animations to do the same stuff, and then they add some wonky control scheme and somehow it makes it better?  More options are great,  purposefully decreasing functionality in favor of those options -- thats a judgement call,  and one I care very little to make in a game with actual functional PvP.

 

While travel powers in DCUO has a tree of skills, they are actually powers that counts to the 6 power limits in the hotbar. So saying that in DCUO you can use your travel power to hit somebody is partially true but what it is not said is that you need to have the skill mapped into your hotbar like any other power. If we take them like that we could count lunges and some repels from CO and CoX are travel power skills, the main difference is that you can take them independent from your travel power. 

 

Though, you have all of your basic attacks that don't count as part of the 6 on your skill bar.  Secondly,  you can make an entire character based around super speed movements, or just flying attacks,  you can't do that on CO or CoX.  

 

About the CO autoattack, again I am not sure if you actually understand CO mechanics, energy builder as its name shown is for getting energy for the other powers. However, they are not the only source of energy in the game, depending on your build it can even be possible to neglect the energy builder in most combats.  So the main difference is that I use energy builder in worst cases about 40%(low levels), most cases at high level 10-15% of the time. While in DCUO you have to use weapons about 70% of the time. 

 

Please read my initial report on CO when it came out of beta,  I know all about their "broken" (my words not yours) energy builder, and was against it when I was testing CO.  Yes you can remove the energy builder later on,  but you mostly are stuck within a particular build to do that.  You have a particular innate that you choose that allows for it.    As for using weapons in DCUO 70% of the time,  again thats dependent on your build.  In my controller role I can kill other players using nothing but my gadget powers.   I can use my powers literally 100% of the time in most battles, which decreases on large bosses.    Separately though, you gain energy outside of combat,  no ridiculous amount of spec'ing,  you can start every battle with your best powers available (minus the supercharge of course).    As for attack skills,  you have a number of options on how to attack. You can choose a combo attack plan, or plan a defensive strategy that revolves around your skills and adapting to the situation.  Its not just relying on the powers you choose, but how you play your character which can turn a battle. 

 

I think you said that weapons are the bread and butter of DCUO, which I agree but the problem is that they are mostly better than powers and are required to generate energy. So Weapons >>> Powers which in imho is kind of weird for a superhero mmo. I have said many times that I like the idea of powers and weapons separated but they are still indeed linked but not complementary since weapons don't cost energy, produce energy so powers are dependant on them and they are pretty powerful.

 

This depends on what you mean as "better".  In a controller role, you can sufficiently stun someone to death.  At level 10 I've taken out level 20s without swinging my weapon once.  Healers rely on heals quite heavily, and use them often, though they expend energy much more then a controller.  Heals are vital for big groups,  and they're even more vital to keep a player alive if they're doing 1v1 because they don't have the luxury of attack powers. Fire and ice abilities are very strong against multiple enemies, and fire has some great options for 1v1, and even 2v1.  Being able to use specific tactics and capitalize your power usage is key in staying alive as a pure damage dealer (even in a tank role).

 

DCUO has great qualities but it is not really superior to either CO or CoX, since they went for a completely different crowd.

I have tried a bit ice and concentrating on fire at this point, which set do you think is the deepest one? and which weapon would be good for it. I am all for trying it, so I might change my current perception on DCUO.

 

 

Between the two, for survivability sake, I'd say fire is better. For one,  the tank role actually works, you can take much more damage as you have a larger health bar.  If you decide to go that route, and play more of a tank style, I'd say capitalize on the extra health by choosing a power with strong innates that are pro defense.  Brawling has some health increases to it,  staff has defense.  I believe dual wield also has defense.  Eventually you'll be dual, triple or quadruple spec'ing your weapon skills to maximize your innates anyways, so the initial one is trivial.   Even 2H has some health buffs in it, and it seems pretty popular.  The smaller, quicker weapons are more my style though, like one handed, dual pistols, dual wield,  and martial arts, (when they fix it,  don't try it now).  

 

 

What I'm saying here is that more options can always be added,  but the basic mechanics of the game will always be the same.  They can add a rock flight animation if they wanted to,  or have some sort of green lantern ring aura flight,  or maybe some form of teleportation.  They have their basics down which to me, is more important.

It is true that flight, fire flight, jet boots, earth and disk flight are essentially same power with different animations and speed parameters, but ice slide does not work as flight since it needs to be powered to keep it moving, if you have played it you surely know what I mean. However, this is not really the point here. 

Resummarizing travel powers:

1) Flights

2) slide

3) superspeed (there is sonic the hedgehog version from crafting)

4) acrobatics

5) Jumps

6) teleport

7) swinging

8) tunneling

Certainly DCUO travel powers are richer than CO ones but some of those travel power skills can be found in CoX powersets like storm and kinetics, so might it better to actual decouple those powers from the actual travel power in order to give more flexibility of builds. 

I just read your review of CO beta, and it might be true in some way that energy builders, still is only a really low levels. Btw, melee energy builders build energy at range and with short cooldown lunges, melee are now kings of pve and pvp. I really think you understimate CO combat depth, it might not have combos but there are many variables involved and imho gives good action an reactive combat without being button smashing intensive. But I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

I am having fun in the DCUO beta, but I will stay in CO or CoX . It might be related to my lack of pvp spirit.

Back to DCUO build consultation, I am almost 20, and I think I got all the brawler skills I wanted, I think I should go to staff now, I got a few stun reduction from superspeed skills. My bar is immolation, flashpoint, fiery sword, backdraft, eternal flame and some other rechargeable health recover skill.

I never thought CO was a bad game,  I just didn't like some of the mechanical decisions they made.  I didn't know it at the time, but the combat I've been looking for was DCUOs combat the whole time.  I'm not saying I don't like choices,  I wish we had more,  but choices come as the game grows.   Truth be told,  they could have created a sci fi or elves and orcs game with this combat and I would have felt the same way about it.  Skillful combat is a passion of mine, even in games that I might not be very good at it.

As for your build, theres so much going on with the new patch I've had to rebuild a few of my characters.  They've increased how many feats are needed for a skill point and therefore decreased the amount of total skill points which is tough on a few of my builds.   The ideas behind them are the same.

When choosing a set you have to decide what you're looking for,  do you want defense,  or to increase the amount of your heals?  Bow is a very balanced set,  it has both defense and precision for weapon skills,  its my most preferred set as far as a secondary.  Then again, it depends on your build,  some people prefer higher health, dominance, or healing for their survivability.   With less skill points its more important than ever to really focus your build so that you pick the right secondary or tertiary set.