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  Einherjar_LC

Tipster

Joined: 5/03/05
Posts: 1067

12/07/10 2:23:21 PM#21
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Amaranthar

I'd like to see GM participation go to the next level. GMs playing as characters with a mission.

Imagine a GM playing an evil demi-god of great power, but if he gets killed by players, he's dead for good. And he has goals, set as layers, and each goal gives him more power in the game, and also has a meaningful impact. And one of his goals is to gather players as worshippers/followers.

But of course, you need the right kind of game for this.

You just described our objective and approach when we did the Followers of Armaggedon story arc in UO a decade ago. :)

I was there. :)

Honestly, while UO was by far the closest to "the right kind of game", and could have made it work well enough, the game still lacked the social systems for justice and free flowing factions that would allow for this to really be done right. As always, just my opinion, of course.

Yep, UO and AC1 had these type of events long ago.

 

They were lag fill messes, but man were they fun as hell.

 

/puts on rose colored glasses.....

 

I miss the good ole days of gaming.

 

Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!

  DrunkWolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 1079

12/07/10 2:55:25 PM#22
Originally posted by Einherjar_LC
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Amaranthar

I'd like to see GM participation go to the next level. GMs playing as characters with a mission.

Imagine a GM playing an evil demi-god of great power, but if he gets killed by players, he's dead for good. And he has goals, set as layers, and each goal gives him more power in the game, and also has a meaningful impact. And one of his goals is to gather players as worshippers/followers.

But of course, you need the right kind of game for this.

You just described our objective and approach when we did the Followers of Armaggedon story arc in UO a decade ago. :)

I was there. :)

Honestly, while UO was by far the closest to "the right kind of game", and could have made it work well enough, the game still lacked the social systems for justice and free flowing factions that would allow for this to really be done right. As always, just my opinion, of course.

Yep, UO and AC1 had these type of events long ago.

 

They were lag fill messes, but man were they fun as hell.

 

/puts on rose colored glasses.....

 

I miss the good ole days of gaming.

 

 yeah its funny when i see post like this talking about how great it would be for this or that and most of those things were in the older games.

just goes to show how dumbed down games are today.

AC 1 GMs back in the day would take boss mobs from epic quest and roll into towns demolishing people. was tons of fun.

  Amaranthar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2171

12/07/10 3:10:54 PM#23
Originally posted by Einherjar_LC
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Amaranthar

I'd like to see GM participation go to the next level. GMs playing as characters with a mission.

Imagine a GM playing an evil demi-god of great power, but if he gets killed by players, he's dead for good. And he has goals, set as layers, and each goal gives him more power in the game, and also has a meaningful impact. And one of his goals is to gather players as worshippers/followers.

But of course, you need the right kind of game for this.

You just described our objective and approach when we did the Followers of Armaggedon story arc in UO a decade ago. :)

I was there. :)

Honestly, while UO was by far the closest to "the right kind of game", and could have made it work well enough, the game still lacked the social systems for justice and free flowing factions that would allow for this to really be done right. As always, just my opinion, of course.

Yep, UO and AC1 had these type of events long ago.

 

They were lag fill messes, but man were they fun as hell.

 

/puts on rose colored glasses.....

 

I miss the good ole days of gaming.

 

Those aren't rose colored glasses, those are glasses of true seeing.

Once upon a time....

  Sid_Vicious

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/10
Posts: 1527

12/07/10 3:37:50 PM#24

http://www.own3d.tv/video/44773/Undead_Raid

^^^ This is that same event in some good race cities ^^^

 

Every week they have been updating the lore of Agon. There have been several hints of some epic monster rising havoc in the near future. My guess is that it will be another GM-controlled PVE event vs a giagantic daemon giant thingy (sounds like that is what it is from studying the lore, look at the description of the new mobs too for one of the hints as it talks about how they are preparing the world for some epic entity to enter or something like that).

 

Dynamic quests besides the events have been talked about as well. Something that someone does in game will alter Agon's history but nobody knows about it and many probably think that it is broken but GMs did admit that there were some bugs to work out but it should be working now . ... waiting for anyone to do something specific. I am guessing that it is a treasure map looted from a certain mob, maybe from a certain area, which will lead to the first clue. This is mostly speculation as nobody has figured it out yet but they have stated that there are dynamic quests besides the dynamic events that will be unlocked by players from doing a certain chain of events. Only hint that they have given is to keep up with lore updates which I have been doing and have a pretty good idea of where to start my search (not telling that part since I want to be the one who unlocks something!!).

 

Has anyone else noticed how amazing the mobs AI can be now? Holy crap I haven't seen as challenging of PVE since the original EQ!! This expansion has been totally under-rated so far. I am having an absolute blast! The other day we came across some of the new mobs but they had been leveled up or something from a previous party and I died almost immediately while trying to res my friend . .. I went back myself and died again (and so did the guy who jumped me since the mobs were super powerful!). When the mobs got us they acted like real people. I have been wondering time and time again since the expansion if GMs are randomly playing as a mob to provide a bigger challenge. I had to go to bed at that point but holy hell, it felt like I needed a couple people at least to assist in retrieving our corpses! So awesome!! I am so sick of the carebear EQ-clones that followed what was once a hardcore immersive game. A buddy of mine told me that some brownie was following him around and went into a city to kill all of the cats LOL and then followed him to a wilderness bank where it jumped him when he went AFK. A few days after that I saw some streaming vid of some new guy talking to the brownie and giving it orders lol and since the GM must have been watching the stream, he could hear every word. Pretty excited to see where all of this is going!

NEWS FLASH! A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore Darkfall Online player and knew just what to do.

  NineDots

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/06/10
Posts: 26

 
OP  12/08/10 3:25:09 AM#25
Originally posted by Sid_Vicious
(...)

. A buddy of mine told me that some brownie was following him around and went into a city to kill all of the cats LOL and then followed him to a wilderness bank where it jumped him when he went AFK. A few days after that I saw some streaming vid of some new guy talking to the brownie and giving it orders lol and since the GM must have been watching the stream, he could hear every word. Pretty excited to see where all of this is going!

Right, there is a video about this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4dVB_vpZNM

This guy is just crazy, but if the Darkfall team continues in that direction, I think that Darkfall might eventually be one of best MMO ever.

  seabeast

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 766

12/08/10 3:41:29 AM#26

Riight

  NineDots

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/06/10
Posts: 26

 
OP  12/08/10 11:18:22 AM#27

By the way, is there any such events in WoW Cataclysm?

  Einherjar_LC

Tipster

Joined: 5/03/05
Posts: 1067

12/08/10 12:30:27 PM#28
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Einherjar_LC
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Amaranthar

I'd like to see GM participation go to the next level. GMs playing as characters with a mission.

Imagine a GM playing an evil demi-god of great power, but if he gets killed by players, he's dead for good. And he has goals, set as layers, and each goal gives him more power in the game, and also has a meaningful impact. And one of his goals is to gather players as worshippers/followers.

But of course, you need the right kind of game for this.

You just described our objective and approach when we did the Followers of Armaggedon story arc in UO a decade ago. :)

I was there. :)

Honestly, while UO was by far the closest to "the right kind of game", and could have made it work well enough, the game still lacked the social systems for justice and free flowing factions that would allow for this to really be done right. As always, just my opinion, of course.

Yep, UO and AC1 had these type of events long ago.

 

They were lag fill messes, but man were they fun as hell.

 

/puts on rose colored glasses.....

 

I miss the good ole days of gaming.

 

Those aren't rose colored glasses, those are glasses of true seeing.

Yeah I think so too, but you just know someone will come in here with the rose colored glasses comment so I beat them to it, lol.

 

Those days way back when are remembered fondly because they were truly good old days of gaming and not the watered down theme park stuff we have today.  Back when  you actually had to talk to the town criers and discern bits of information to figure out or find quests.  No "!" markers or quest trackers.....bah, don't get me started....and get off my lawn, you damn kids!

Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!

  Amaranthar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2171

12/08/10 1:07:35 PM#29
Originally posted by Einherjar_LC
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Einherjar_LC
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Amaranthar

I'd like to see GM participation go to the next level. GMs playing as characters with a mission.

Imagine a GM playing an evil demi-god of great power, but if he gets killed by players, he's dead for good. And he has goals, set as layers, and each goal gives him more power in the game, and also has a meaningful impact. And one of his goals is to gather players as worshippers/followers.

But of course, you need the right kind of game for this.

You just described our objective and approach when we did the Followers of Armaggedon story arc in UO a decade ago. :)

I was there. :)

Honestly, while UO was by far the closest to "the right kind of game", and could have made it work well enough, the game still lacked the social systems for justice and free flowing factions that would allow for this to really be done right. As always, just my opinion, of course.

Yep, UO and AC1 had these type of events long ago.

 

They were lag fill messes, but man were they fun as hell.

 

/puts on rose colored glasses.....

 

I miss the good ole days of gaming.

 

Those aren't rose colored glasses, those are glasses of true seeing.

Yeah I think so too, but you just know someone will come in here with the rose colored glasses comment so I beat them to it, lol.

 

Those days way back when are remembered fondly because they were truly good old days of gaming and not the watered down theme park stuff we have today.  Back when  you actually had to talk to the town criers and discern bits of information to figure out or find quests.  No "!" markers or quest trackers.....bah, don't get me started....and get off my lawn, you damn kids!

I remember back in those days that Loktofeit was talking about.

One night several guilds gathered together because we'd heard that the Followers of Armageddon were going to have this big meeting at a small house out in the middle of nowhere. These were GMs playing the leaders, and players as a loose "faction".

When we got there, there were only 3 or 4 people in the house. We had quite a few people, maybe 50 or more, so it was impossible to hide the fact we were there. But someone had hidden a Communication Crystal in or near the house. What this was, for those who don't know, was part of a set of two Communication Crystals that you could link together and turn on. This allowed people to hear what was being said between these Crystals, no matter how far away.

So we were able to listen in on these FOA Leaders, or players, or whatever they were, as they waited for their fellows to show up. Not much was said, they knew we were outside in numbers. But it was fun and interesting all the same. They did roleplay, making it more fun.

Eventually, knowing we were there, the rest of the FOA people tried to force their way into the house. In UO you could mark a Runestone anywhere, and then either teleport (single player) or open a gate (any number of players, as long as it lasted, about 30 seconds) to that location. They had one set for right on front of the house, and opened a Gate there. They tried to come through the gate in numbers, because they knew we would be attacking them, so that they could counter assault against us and allow even more to come through the Gate.

But we lit them up as they came through the Gate with all sorts of attacks; Arrows, Fireballs, Meteor Swarms, Chain Lightnings, Firewalls...talk about a roast! It was quite a bit of fun that night as we fought off other efforts by them to get to the house.

I believe an FOA Leader (a GM) was captured that night, later to stand trial, after another fun event where we transported him over road to the courthouse under attacks by the FOA, allied with NPC Orc spawns popped by the GMs.

Once upon a time....

  Sid_Vicious

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/10
Posts: 1527

12/08/10 2:39:59 PM#30
Originally posted by Amaranthar

I'd like to see GM participation go to the next level. GMs playing as characters with a mission.

Imagine a GM playing an evil demi-god of great power, but if he gets killed by players, he's dead for good. And he has goals, set as layers, and each goal gives him more power in the game, and also has a meaningful impact. And one of his goals is to gather players as worshippers/followers.

But of course, you need the right kind of game for this.

Hrmm . .. that sounds like a really good idea! They could totally do that in Darkfall. I am going to post this on their suggestion boards if you dont mind.

 

; )

 

LOL *reading the above post* dang I missed that when I played UO. How often did they do things like that? The story kind of reminds me of a siege last year when my clan was trying to take over the capital city of one of the corner continents and we decided to take our stand on top of this huge pyramid thingy and declared around 3 sieges at once. Unfortunately our enemies were not poor and were able to hire mercanaries to come get us and protect their cities. When looking over the edge there were hundreds of specks which were distant people with cannons unloading missiles at us. One elevator must be taken to reach this pyramid so everytime it came up with a bunch of decked out people, we unloaded AOEs and stuff and they would pretty much die instantly. We held the top of the pyramid well and everything was going smooth (dozens of player tombstones all over the place so everyone was fully loaded with the best of their own and other people's loot) up until the point where we were supposed to somehow destroy the clan stones in these enemy cities but we had no way to get down without being totally outnumbered. I died trying to get over to the city . .. and lost my new full plate armor . ... but when I remember back it was loads of fun! lol this wasn't a GM event, just a regular siege, but reminded me of your story since it was a focus fire AOE deal as the enemies poured in and a truly epic experience.

 

Now picturing a GM playing a mob that lives as a character does until killed by opposing faction is a great idea! They could have some epic loot drop from him if he is killed and offer something to those who assist him with whatever he is trying to do. That would be sweet!! Hopefully they will read my post. I would also like to see something like our recent racial war but with GM controlled mobs on each side.

NEWS FLASH! A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore Darkfall Online player and knew just what to do.

  wisesquirrel

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/09
Posts: 282

12/08/10 3:46:48 PM#31

The Brownie video ink in the first page is win ( I enjoyed the video even though I don't play Darkfall ).

MMOs should be about interesting and unique experiences like these (I will miss Brownie, that was just too cruel, why is the world so?).

MMOs can be (Not should) designed to revolve around human made events, perhaps an easy to handle event system that can be used through player actions and GM competition.

Like in the above post, GMs competing for power with the condition of roleplaying, rules can be made later on to make it an exciting and entertaining adventure XD.

  Warmaker

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/07
Posts: 2236

12/08/10 3:59:22 PM#32
Originally posted by NineDots
Originally posted by Loktofeit

http://ihavereturned.com/events.html

Well, EvE is not really a MMORPG...so that does not really count.

LOLWUT?!?  EVE isn't an MMORPG?

Okay...

As far as GM events, some have 'em, some don't.  And for those that do, a few that do have them sometimes bleed off to zero as the months go on.  Some will go into great lengths into a nice event.  Some merely come in to spawn an NPC(s), say a few copy & pasted remarks, and then leave and never to be seen again for the rest of the "event."

"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12276

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

12/08/10 4:05:16 PM#33
Originally posted by Sid_Vicious

 

LOL *reading the above post* dang I missed that when I played UO. How often did they do things like that?

For a while. there were 2-3 content people assigned to each server. There were the individual server plots/stories that were driven by the content team (volunteer and staff) and there were the main story arcs that were run through across the servers. As the main story arcs diverged, the team would incorporate the player actions into how everyhing panned out. Using the FOA example, there were 3 FOA members and a leader on each server. Some died (gone completely, some were jailed and even tried in a court run by the players, and others escaped.

There was also a good degree of help given to roleplay guilds and even guilds that weren't roleplayers but contributed positively (as good guys or bad guys) to the server environment. Areas of the game world were updated, changed or decorated - within the fiction of the game - that not only furthered the GM events but also gave more engaging environments to the players who were creating their own stories.

The individual server events were a couple times a month for a while and the main story arcs were usually around expansion time.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  NineDots

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/06/10
Posts: 26

 
OP  12/09/10 12:34:43 AM#34
Originally posted by wisesquirrel

The Brownie video ink in the first page is win ( I enjoyed the video even though I don't play Darkfall ).

MMOs should be about interesting and unique experiences like these (I will miss Brownie, that was just too cruel, why is the world so?).

MMOs can be (Not should) designed to revolve around human made events, perhaps an easy to handle event system that can be used through player actions and GM competition.

Like in the above post, GMs competing for power with the condition of roleplaying, rules can be made later on to make it an exciting and entertaining adventure XD.

Yes, and I have read reports of GM controlled mob attacking a player owned city yesterday on the US server.

I think they might start doing this on a regular basis in Darkfall !

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5249

12/09/10 3:06:53 AM#35

They used to be, other have mentioned UO, I am not sure anyone mentioned AC. They made their MMO's feel dynamic and that you were really doing something to help your in game fellows in arms. But they cost money, money that could be put into pretty graphics..they were binned in new MMO's.

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

12/09/10 3:14:30 AM#36
Originally posted by NineDots

I was wondering if it is frequent to see events directly driven by GMs (Game Masters) in MMORPG?

What I mean is when GMs would actually take direct control of some of the game mechanics such as monsters to interact with players.

Here is a recent example where GMs took control of monsters to attack cities:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dd4TcOdO5A

Do you know of any other MMO with such events?

 

EQ2 has GM events, BUT....the only people that know about them are the people that read the forums, because that's where they announce them. They're GREAT though.  They often give away rare shinies that are rare collectables, and assorted other rares items.  The events are usually a lot of fun and involve some quest that they give you.

 

One time I was in Paineel and was suddenly attacked by flying COWS.  Since cows are not plentiful in EQ2 and I have NEVER had one thrown at me.....I knew there was a GM SOMEWHERE.  I got bombarded with cows....like LOTS of them.  So I went looking for the GM, found him/her and got a GM vanity pet!  It was funny and a nice surprise.

 

I love how EQ2 has these events because it makes the world seem very alive.  They also generally EXPECT you to roleplay with them, and that also makes it loads of fun.

 

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  chasemme

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/09/10
Posts: 7

12/09/10 7:32:12 AM#37

I would just like to throw in my UO nostalgia too. Seeing West Britain Bank attacked by hordes of demons and having to drive them back along complete strangers with all the bank-sitters and blacksmiths contributing what they could to the fight. It is one very vivid memory I have of that game. Or a GM-controlled dragon not letting anyone into one of the dungeons.

WoW, in a way, DID try this sort of idea, once. Right before WotLK came out, a plague spread over the world and people were turned into zombies and you could kill other players at will. As the week went on the disease became increasingly harder to cure and turned you zombie faster. It was honestly one of the most entertaining weeks I had in that game. If only because I had a choice to go zombie and kill anyone I chose for the scourge, or to put together a group a hunt them down. Weird how much being given an actual decision in that game which would have some small impact made me enjoy the game exponentially more.

Funny thing is that it received such intense backlash. Huge numbers of people flocked to the forums to complain that it was way too brutal to have to run back to their corpses when they just wanted to do their dailies in peace. It was promptly ended. This was of course followed by a purely theatrical mass attack on Orgrimmar, in which absolutely nothing happened and no players were harmed.

  NineDots

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/06/10
Posts: 26

 
OP  12/09/10 12:18:36 PM#38
Originally posted by Scot

They used to be, other have mentioned UO, I am not sure anyone mentioned AC. They made their MMO's feel dynamic and that you were really doing something to help your in game fellows in arms. But they cost money, money that could be put into pretty graphics..they were binned in new MMO's.

 

I think that is one of needed piece to make a MMO more dynamic indeed and last longer.

Well, I guess they were not binned in all the new MMO's since it looks like this will happen more an more in Darkfall Online.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5249

12/10/10 3:24:16 AM#39

Hmm I know you DF fans like to tell us how great a game DF is and I have a lot of time for the game. But I not seen anything to suggest that DF is doing server wide events that alter the game world. :)

  darkrain5

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/08
Posts: 52

12/10/10 3:30:29 AM#40

1) not every player can do the event ( angry players)

2) to expensive ( 20 servers = 20 people/day hiring minimum)

 

aldo I love the idea :)

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