Originally posted by Quizzical

If more players automatically means better results, then the optimal strategy would be for everyone on the entire server to group with each other.  That would make success highly dependent upon the real-life time of day that you play, which is terrible game design.  Maybe you mean more is better up to a reasonable maximum group size?

But the real question isn't merely whether you must group with a bunch of other people, but whether you can.  If it means that on average, I'd have to spend half an hour looking for a group every time I log on before I can do anything, then no I wouldn't play.  If it's reliably possible to get a group within a minute or two, then that's not a problem.

Yes, I mean the closer you are to a full group, the better you will do, and a full group being something like 6-8, like most MMORPGs.

What do you mean, looking for a group before you can do anything?

The game is playing with other players. There isn't anything to do without other players.

It would be like playing volleyball by yourself. Why would you? If you can't find someone to play with, you don't play. It's a minimum two player game.

Originally posted by ActionMMORPG

Without knowing if it is instanced or not, I can't really vote.

 

Just because grouping is forced, does not make the game "Massively Multiplayer" in my opinion.  If it is fully instanced, it might as well be coop-RPG.

It's not instanced, it's not scaled, there is no phasing.

 Such a game would be the ultimate fail. What happens with the newbs when community has reached end level? This actually made me laugh. No sane person would ever make a game where you would need a group for all.

 Keep on dreaming.

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

Sounds like fun, sign me up. The problem is that it will be truely niche since the majority, it seems, of mmorpg players have this welfare, entitlement, themepark, free-ride, convenience, access concept that every game needs to follow.  The masses will only play games that are "easy".

If it isnt welfare gaming, then it isnt for them. But I like the concept.

 Thats actually quite funny there. Someone who believes that the only true way to avoid doing things the 'easy' way is to require other people to help you all the time. And if for some strange reason your epic enough to actually do things on your own, then your obviously into welfare, entitlement, themepark, free-ride, convenience, access. No really, he actually said that!

No wouldn't play it, I'm tired of leading and I am not a follower. Sheep who require other sheep to 'get by', well they may go for this one, god knows there are plenty of them out there who think being part of a group makes you somehow better than someone who can stand on thier own two feet and dont need your freakin help to get by.

Grouping does not in itself mean something is hardcore, it only means it was designed to be impossible for a single person to do it. Anyone who believes that to be hard a game MUST be group orianted is crazy and lazy. So sick of people who want everyone to group up and 'help' them, learn to play and try it yourself first, and if you still fail then look me up! Force grouping is just another way of saying that if I want to play a game then I have no choice but to help the losers who can't handle it on thier own. No I dont know you, no I dont owe you, and no I dont want to 'help' you do anything!

Haha, just kidding, well mostly, but you get my point i hope.

Originally posted by chrisel

 Such a game would be the ultimate fail. What happens with the newbs when community has reached end level? This actually made me laugh. No sane person would ever make a game where you would need a group for all.

 Keep on dreaming.

I don't see it as needing a group. I see it as any other game that is played with another person.

the object is to play with someone else.

You're thinking of it like, oh my, I need to move my Chess pieces on the board, why would I have to wait on someone else to do that?

I'm thinking of it like, why would I move my Chess pieces on the board, if there is no one to play Chess with?

In fact most games require other people to play.

Nothing happens to newbs when the community reaches end level. There is no solo game, there is no grinding up your character by yourself.

The game is playing with other people. If there are no other people, there is no game.

It's like Call of Duty. If you log on and there's no one to play with, you can't play.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by chrisel

 Such a game would be the ultimate fail. What happens with the newbs when community has reached end level? This actually made me laugh. No sane person would ever make a game where you would need a group for all.

 Keep on dreaming.

 

I don't see it as needing a group. I see it as any other game that is played with another person.

the object is to play with someone else.

You're thinking of it like, oh my, I need to move my Chess pieces on the board, why would I have to wait on someone else to do that?

I'm thinking of it like, why would I move my Chess pieces on the board, if there is no one to play Chess with?

 

In fact most games require other people to play.

Nothing happens to newbs when the community reaches end level. There is no solo game, there is no grinding up your character by yourself.

The game is playing with other people. If there are no other people, there is no game.

It's like Call of Duty. If you log on and there's no one to play with, you can't play.

Your thinking is flawed.  At least with these examples.

Most of the best Chess players in the world play for hours by themselves playing both black and white to test new stratagy and defenses for it. before playing others. Also you can play chess on the pc solo.

Call of duty is a solo playable game with co-op, or lobby matches against others. I am sure most people play the solo campaign.

So in each example you gave thinking they are only playable with others is wrong. Same with any mmorpg. If there is no solo content at all you will have such a low player base that getting groups would be extremely hard to come by. Plus, no company would ever propose a game such as you want.  it is just not a fiscally viable.

I do feel for your plight. I just don't think it will ever happen. Reason being most players will not keep logging on if there is no way to do anything except wait for others.

other inherent problems with a forced group game:

Players not liking each other so don't want to group.

Players disagreeing on what content to do.

Players refusing to group with someone due to there gear they are wearing or is a class/skill set not wanted or needed for that group.

There will always be players left out or shunned in a forced grouping game. These player will quit, making the population smaller. Smaller population equals less chance for others to group. Whom then will quit. In time you would be playing the game with only a handeful of friends.  Or even end up playing solo. (Yes extreme put plausable) You can do that now in any MMO out. Just bring your friends into the game then you always have your group.

But good luck in your battle. Just dont' count me in.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by chrisel

 Such a game would be the ultimate fail. What happens with the newbs when community has reached end level? This actually made me laugh. No sane person would ever make a game where you would need a group for all.

 Keep on dreaming.

 

I don't see it as needing a group. I see it as any other game that is played with another person.

the object is to play with someone else.

You're thinking of it like, oh my, I need to move my Chess pieces on the board, why would I have to wait on someone else to do that?

I'm thinking of it like, why would I move my Chess pieces on the board, if there is no one to play Chess with?

 

In fact most games require other people to play.

Nothing happens to newbs when the community reaches end level. There is no solo game, there is no grinding up your character by yourself.

The game is playing with other people. If there are no other people, there is no game.

It's like Call of Duty. If you log on and there's no one to play with, you can't play.

 See but thats not what your saying now is it. The thought you have in the opening post is that your can't play the game without a group, period. Its not a matter of 'why would I' its a matter of you not having a choice at all. Your original post makes it clear, either group with people or dont play. That isnt a choice, thats a design where you force people to play the game the way you want them to, and you force them to do it with people they may not like to play it with. There isnt an option at all the way your opening post puts it.

And you miss the point of most if not all MMO games, its not to specifically play with other people, its to play the game that other people are playing as well. Just being in the game when others are around you playing it as well is enough for most. Knowing you are not there alone, having the opportunity to play with them is what makes it work, not being forced to play it with them. You system requires people to do what others want in order to be allowed to do as you want. Which is the fault.

Think of it this way, your allowed to take your girl out to the movies as long as your little brother comes along EVERY SINGLE TIME, and I'm sorry, but your not allowed to choose otherwise, its the rules. No, I dont care if you want him to come along or not, if you want to go out, anywhere, ever, you have to take him with you. If you dont want to take him with you, then your not allowed to go anywhere, ever, period. See it yet??

Originally posted by ScribZ

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by chrisel

 Such a game would be the ultimate fail. What happens with the newbs when community has reached end level? This actually made me laugh. No sane person would ever make a game where you would need a group for all.

 Keep on dreaming.

 

I don't see it as needing a group. I see it as any other game that is played with another person.

the object is to play with someone else.

You're thinking of it like, oh my, I need to move my Chess pieces on the board, why would I have to wait on someone else to do that?

I'm thinking of it like, why would I move my Chess pieces on the board, if there is no one to play Chess with?

 

In fact most games require other people to play.

Nothing happens to newbs when the community reaches end level. There is no solo game, there is no grinding up your character by yourself.

The game is playing with other people. If there are no other people, there is no game.

It's like Call of Duty. If you log on and there's no one to play with, you can't play.

 See but thats not what your saying now is it. The thought you have in the opening post is that your can't play the game without a group, period. Its not a matter of 'why would I' its a matter of you not having a choice at all. Your original post makes it clear, either group with people or dont play. That isnt a choice, thats a design where you force people to play the game the way you want them to, and you force them to do it with people they may not like to play it with. There isnt an option at all the way your opening post puts it.

And you miss the point of most if not all MMO games, its not to specifically play with other people, its to play the game that other people are playing as well. Just being in the game when others are around you playing it as well is enough for most. Knowing you are not there alone, having the opportunity to play with them is what makes it work, not being forced to play it with them. You system requires people to do what others want in order to be allowed to do as you want. Which is the fault.

Think of it this way, your allowed to take your girl out to the movies as long as your little brother comes along EVERY SINGLE TIME, and I'm sorry, but your not allowed to choose otherwise, its the rules. No, I dont care if you want him to come along or not, if you want to go out, anywhere, ever, you have to take him with you. If you dont want to take him with you, then your not allowed to go anywhere, ever, period. See it yet??

All games force you to play the way the developers want you to. You can't change the code of a game. If it's a solo friendly game, then you're forced to play a solo friendly game. You certainly can't choose to turn that into a group friendly game.

In games like Call of Duty, you play the solo game first, but then after that you either play with other people, or you don't play.

You don't go back and play the solo game some more if there's no good online group of people to play with. The solo game is a learning device, and that's it. It's not something you grind on without other players. You go through it once, and it's not even that long, and then you're done with it.

So sure, you could add a newbie zone that is solo, just like the Call of Duty solo part of the game, but then after that, you have to play with other people, or you don't play the game.

Think of it like a see saw. You COULD go get a bag  and fill it up with dirt and put it on the other end of the see saw, and then see saw by yourself. But most people just dont' get on the see saw unless they have someone else with them.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I don't derive any enjoyment from grinding my character up solo. I play MMORPGs to play the game with other people. I don't mean to chat and socialize, I mean to play in a group with others.

I don't feel I would be missing anything if I couldn't quest or grind on mobs solo, because I don't think that is in any way fun or entertaining.

Again, like Call of Duty. I don't play the solo game after one time through to learn the layout of the levels. I only play it to shoot other players (and mostly get shot).