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Lord of the Rings Online

Lord of the Rings Online 

General Discussion  » Lord of the Fail: 2 years between (mini) expansions...

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57 posts found
  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

12/02/10 11:26:08 AM#41

We got plenty stuff the last year to now, its just not the stuff you would have wanted. But thats your problem. In all honesty the old way of releasing increasingly more and more powerful raid instances between major expansions(and levelraises) was plain stupid, the epitome of that was reached in WoW pre BC where like only 5% or so managed to set foot in naxxramas. If you release content that only 5% of your players are going to enjoy you better not have wasted more than 5% of your budget doing it ...

Skirmishes, starter zone revamps, scaling instances etc however reach a big group of your playerbase. It was the smart thing to do, and it does pay off with every newbie that starts the game and likes it so much that he decides to sub and buy the expansions. Sure it sucks for those old folks hanging around at maxlevel since 5 days after mirkwood released, then again Turbine is trying to do it right:

 

1. Polish the game(Zone revamps, Skirmish system, Shared storage). 

2. Release a F2P version to breath new life into the game.

3. Polish it some more(Vault, Wardrobe, Starting zones revamp, scaling instances).

4. Fix the LI and Radiance crap the raiders have whined about since its inception.

5. Release new endgame content and a much more fleshed out PvMP system.

 

That looks like a pretty damn solid plan to me, obviously the execution of that plan takes time and work, but i don't see what Turbine can do about that in the short term. Its not like they make artificial pauses somewhere inbetween, it just takes as long as it takes.

  zahir123

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/10
Posts: 21

12/02/10 11:29:16 AM#42

Should try to understand that Turbine doesn't deliver half-content or at least is a company that keeps improving enedwaith is an example, moria, mirkwood, etc. and they have repeatedly said they were going to finish with Mordor and even then they might still improve on overall expansions to make it even better, Isengard for one has mounted combat.

  Ethian

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/26/09
Posts: 1237

12/02/10 11:36:11 AM#43

LOTRO for me was a huge fail. The pvp and character models are terrible. I won't play another Turbine MMO because of it...lol. My dream of an epic Middle Earth MMO was crushed. I played for about 1 year, mostly due to leading a great kinship. Packing my bags was the best thing I ever did. Since leaving I tried 3-4 other MMOs and finally found the one I've been hoping for.

 

Good ridance Turbine :-)

"I play Tera for the gameplay"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2paFdRw_U

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

12/02/10 11:56:47 AM#44
Originally posted by Ethian

LOTRO for me was a huge fail. The pvp and character models are terrible. I won't play another Turbine MMO because of it...lol. My dream of an epic Middle Earth MMO was crushed. I played for about 1 year, mostly due to leading a great kinship. Packing my bags was the best thing I ever did. Since leaving I tried 3-4 other MMOs and finally found the one I've been hoping for.

 

Good ridance Turbine :-)

Considering your post i find your signature hilarious :D.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17400

12/02/10 12:15:37 PM#45
Originally posted by zahir123

Should try to understand that Turbine doesn't deliver half-content or at least is a company that keeps improving enedwaith is an example, moria, mirkwood, etc. and they have repeatedly said they were going to finish with Mordor and even then they might still improve on overall expansions to make it even better, Isengard for one has mounted combat.

I think if one is to look at game companies, Turbine still comes out on top.

That is not to say that they can be all things to all people. I have yet to see any game company get across the boards "thumbs up".

For as many people who think CCP is amazing or Blizzard there are also many detractors.

In the end the game companies can't really please everyone.

As far as Turbine goes, people have very short memories.

Turbine received quite a bit of content from the previous developer. If one looks at some of the videos of middle earth online you can see some of the things that were put in the game. I imagine that they had a great amount of content to draw from in order to give players very large updates.

Of course creating more content that is the same size is going to be difficult going forth. Add to this that the U.S. has been hit by hard economic times and I can only imagine how this had affected them prior to the WB buyout.

Now they have been purchased, have changed the product over to f2p and have laid out their plans for the next year or so. It might not be what people want but it is what it is.

  Kert

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 68

12/02/10 4:57:43 PM#46
Originally posted by Robsolf

Dude... NO GAME releases new content every month.  And NO game can keep pace for creating content with those that consume it.  Once upon a time they tried doing that, often with negative consequences.  Artificial time limits just get in the way of good content.

I do remember the early days... the days of the so-called monthly updates.  They always came late, they always came bugged to oblivion, and they were always tiny.

You can choose to either create content enslaved to the idea that it has to be out every month, or you can design content based on an idea, and determine how long it will take to roll it out.  The best content occurs with the latter philosophy.

Now, after an MMO releases, you'll sometimes see a new patch every month that includes content.  It's often because it was content(written over the past 4-5 years) intended to go into the game at launch that wasn't ready on time.  Once you've released all that leftover content, content comes at a slower pace.  You don't need to be a lead programmer to figure that out.

But it looks like you've backpedaled on your stance a bit.  At first you were talking about monthly, now you're talking "regular basis".  Guess what?  LotRO DOES release content on a REGULAR BASIS.  Quarterly, at least.

As somebody who didn't like the game at launch but love it now, I can tell you, all these "little things" you talk about; the tweaking of old instances, the revamp of the starter areas, bounty quests, Lone Lands redone... the new(er) Old Forest quest hub... ALL these things make a difference, as they brought me to the game, and likely many others.

Heck, I remember the quest flow of my 2nd alt being alot better than my original toon due to changes they've made.  THOSE THINGS MATTER.

So, you dismissing that stuff... and the greatly improved inventory interfaces, Horses 2.0, the legendary item revamp, making dozens of old instances scalable... it's at best naive, and at worst dishonest to then compare what's left and say, "old games gave you more".

LotRO only has 1 peer when it comes to development output, and that's WoW.   Look what's coming up for AoC.  CoX.  Heck, even Eve, which has an expansion coming!  Though I gotta give Eve a pass, since they never charge for expansions and the best content you can have in the framework of their game is player driven.  But still, LotRO is MORE than competitive in content output in the MMO market.

I really have no beef with LotRO, my beef was as I stated, that the whole point of subscriptions in general, when the whole genre began was to create a virtual world that the developers would have a steady stream of revenue incoming to continually add more content. Now for LotRO, considering its F2P now, you don't really have to have a subscription to play. I also didn't back pedal anything, I said that subscriptions originally were supposed to be for adding monthly content or at least content on a regular basis. I can understand maybe not going monthly due to time constraints or other plans, but one major content addition in an entire calender year, and revamping, low and mid end content (again), hardly seems to justify $120-150/year for a subscription for some people.

For those that do subscribe however, I don't find it unreasonable for them to expect that there would be a lot more content created for the customers that have been playing for a couple of years or longer. There are only so many times people are going to level a character from 0-65 through the same content before they get tired of it. Tweaking existing content is not "new" either, it was already pre-existing. The aim at the low end may bring back, or draw in new players but eventually those people end up in the same place, wondering where the high level new stuff is.

The quarterly content you are trumpeting is the festivals, guess what? They've been doing those for years, it's not new. The only actual new anything is Enedwaith, a lvl 65 zone with a ridiculous rep grind. The Legendary Item revamp? They're still working on it, it's not done. How do you add that as new content? As the title suggests it's a revamp anyway.

If you consider re-hashing existing content over and over again, new, then enjoy, because that's all you'll be getting this year.

They're slowly coming out of this shell they went into, and we are looking at new content. Next Year.

If LotRO was a magazine subscription, you wouldn't be getting a monthly publication, you'd be getting a bi-annual magazine where 80% of the articles are re-hashed from a previous volume, with some new photo's added. For some people thats ok, for others... it's not.

I'm also going to reiterate... I enjoy playing LotRO, but it still doesn't change my opinion that their F2P focus, and their focus on revamping previously released content, has left the "new" content department pretty bare.

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

12/03/10 6:55:23 AM#47

Doh. So if your unhappy with what you have as a subscriber ... how about unsubscribing? If your a old player you still will have access to all of moria and mirkwood, so you can do all the raids etc without paying a subscription. Once they get new content you resubscribe, and presto you got good value for your money.

  darkboaz

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 149

Forum Terrorist

12/03/10 7:47:45 AM#48
Funniest thing I have seen in this thread was that they “fixed LI and radiance crap the raiders have whined about… Released new endgame content…” first part of the post was spot on but the last pure comic gold.
 
First, raiders had no issue with the radiance gating it was the casuals who fancied them selves’ raiders that had the issues. They did not want to have to grind previous content to be able to do current high-end content and there wish was granted. Now you can have some really good gear on par with top raid gear that is from cake walk 3 man instances where people have been known to cycle allts threw to pick up free marks that makes the old exploits on first ages from the turtle to look like they where earned.
 
The only significant change to LI is that they drop more often and can now be purchased with marks in vary little way fixes the conundrum that is spinning the wheel on creating crappie items. Perhaps it that we can now grind away on marks to buy your way to better tears on that LI that could be seen as a fix. At best LI had a bandage tossed at them but are not fixed. That players will destroy hundreds of them and then out grow them means that the only thing legendary about them is the headache involved in playing needle in the hay stack to find a good one.
 
New endgame content really, did I blink and miss it? Well killing the LT hard mode has become so passé that it is being done with a single group I guess that might count. We where given revamped old content that is scalable to higher levels but that’s not really new high-end or endgame content.
 
Don’t get me wrong I am still playing the game but lets not pretend that the OP is wrong when they are correct. Lets also not over look that they have no vested interest in keeping people like me happy since they got my money along time ago and they make more from there micro transactions then they do from  substantially advancing the story.
  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

12/06/10 8:33:16 AM#49
Originally posted by darkboaz
Funniest thing I have seen in this thread was that they “fixed LI and radiance crap the raiders have whined about… Released new endgame content…” first part of the post was spot on but the last pure comic gold.
 
First, raiders had no issue with the radiance gating it was the casuals who fancied them selves’ raiders that had the issues. They did not want to have to grind previous content to be able to do current high-end content and there wish was granted. Now you can have some really good gear on par with top raid gear that is from cake walk 3 man instances where people have been known to cycle allts threw to pick up free marks that makes the old exploits on first ages from the turtle to look like they where earned.
 
The only significant change to LI is that they drop more often and can now be purchased with marks in vary little way fixes the conundrum that is spinning the wheel on creating crappie items. Perhaps it that we can now grind away on marks to buy your way to better tears on that LI that could be seen as a fix. At best LI had a bandage tossed at them but are not fixed. That players will destroy hundreds of them and then out grow them means that the only thing legendary about them is the headache involved in playing needle in the hay stack to find a good one.
 
New endgame content really, did I blink and miss it? Well killing the LT hard mode has become so passé that it is being done with a single group I guess that might count. We where given revamped old content that is scalable to higher levels but that’s not really new high-end or endgame content.
 
Don’t get me wrong I am still playing the game but lets not pretend that the OP is wrong when they are correct. Lets also not over look that they have no vested interest in keeping people like me happy since they got my money along time ago and they make more from there micro transactions then they do from  substantially advancing the story.

I thought it was amply clear that what i was posting about was "the plan", and not the current status. In other words we are still in the middle of that plan as it spans a timeline of about 1-2 years and we just got the F2P part behind us.

 

Edit: Strange enough that all that the news of Radiance going the way of the dodo was met with such a enthusiastic reaction considering the raiders where so happy with it. And before you mention them being all casuals, i saw several members of successful raiding kins just on the first 2 pages. And there wasn't a single "raider" speaking against it, only some concerned about having no gating at all which won't come to pass.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17400

12/06/10 10:21:02 AM#50
Originally posted by Rocketeer

 

Edit: Strange enough that all that the news of Radiance going the way of the dodo was met with such a enthusiastic reaction considering the raiders where so happy with it. And before you mention them being all casuals, i saw several members of successful raiding kins just on the first 2 pages. And there wasn't a single "raider" speaking against it, only some concerned about having no gating at all which won't come to pass.

I just think having "special" gear in order to do anything in a game is silly.

"oh wait, I can't pvp because I don't have a particular type of gear", "oh wait, I'd love to tank for your raid but i need one more piece of x gear".

In other games it used to be fun to log in and expect a regular evening of play only to get a pm asking "hey, can you join us for a raid?"

As opposed to having to make sure I meet some height requirement just to go.

  Ryukan

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 711

12/06/10 10:25:06 AM#51

When I heard that it was another year until Isengard and the fact that the lvl cap was only going up by 5, I was disappointed to say the least. I have been playing this game since the beta, but I just don't have the love for it anymore. Lately it just feels mechanical and devoid of adventure anymore, I'll be moving to Rift...the only reason I won't uninstall LotRO for good is because it is f2p.

  comradedoug

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/08
Posts: 31

12/06/10 10:25:41 AM#52
Originally posted by trancejeremy

Seriously, this must be a joke.

Yes, I know they switched over to F2P, but somehow Sony managed to do that with EQ2 and still worked on another full XP due out in Feb 2011.

I have to admit, I was completely wrong about the F2P switch. I really thought Turbine would be pushing out stuff in the cash shop to buy, be it boosters or a new mount or outfit every months.

But instead, their strategy (besides selling the stat tomes) is to sell re-cycled content available in the game to the new people for insanely high prices.

I mean, look at SoA + Moria. It was a little more than a year (like what, 16 months? Maybe a year and a half). It was a full expansion pack and in between we got what 3 areas? (Evendim, Forochel, and Eregion)

 If you had a head on your shoulders you would have read that they are deploying the features listed on the isengard expansion over a period of time, not all at once at the date listed.

Deep breaths.

  darkboaz

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 149

Forum Terrorist

12/06/10 11:06:01 AM#53
Originally posted by Rocketeer
Originally posted by darkboaz
Funniest thing I have seen in this thread was that they “fixed LI and radiance crap the raiders have whined about… Released new endgame content…” first part of the post was spot on but the last pure comic gold.
 
First, raiders had no issue with the radiance gating it was the casuals who fancied them selves’ raiders that had the issues. They did not want to have to grind previous content to be able to do current high-end content and there wish was granted. Now you can have some really good gear on par with top raid gear that is from cake walk 3 man instances where people have been known to cycle allts threw to pick up free marks that makes the old exploits on first ages from the turtle to look like they where earned.
 
The only significant change to LI is that they drop more often and can now be purchased with marks in vary little way fixes the conundrum that is spinning the wheel on creating crappie items. Perhaps it that we can now grind away on marks to buy your way to better tears on that LI that could be seen as a fix. At best LI had a bandage tossed at them but are not fixed. That players will destroy hundreds of them and then out grow them means that the only thing legendary about them is the headache involved in playing needle in the hay stack to find a good one.
 
New endgame content really, did I blink and miss it? Well killing the LT hard mode has become so passé that it is being done with a single group I guess that might count. We where given revamped old content that is scalable to higher levels but that’s not really new high-end or endgame content.
 
Don’t get me wrong I am still playing the game but lets not pretend that the OP is wrong when they are correct. Lets also not over look that they have no vested interest in keeping people like me happy since they got my money along time ago and they make more from there micro transactions then they do from  substantially advancing the story.

I thought it was amply clear that what i was posting about was "the plan", and not the current status. In other words we are still in the middle of that plan as it spans a timeline of about 1-2 years and we just got the F2P part behind us.

 

Edit: Strange enough that all that the news of Radiance going the way of the dodo was met with such a enthusiastic reaction considering the raiders where so happy with it. And before you mention them being all casuals, i saw several members of successful raiding kins just on the first 2 pages. And there wasn't a single "raider" speaking against it, only some concerned about having no gating at all which won't come to pass.

Ahh, I am sorry I thought the discussion was manly focused on and around the OP saying that 2 years between substantial expansions was fail. I still say that is an obviously correct statement especially if it is and was your position that they have only formulated a plain and have not yet put it all into effect to bring us the wonderfully changes you talked about.
  
There are times I hate the English language because it can be ambiguous and the same words can be taken in different ways. I did not think your post was clear that by using the word plain after the list you where talking about what is coming since in the first part of the post you are talking about the last years accomplishments. To me it looked more like you where enumerating the accomplishments and thus stating that those actions have moved us to a better game.
 
On radiance to me this is because radiance had been so substantially nerfed to simply being a gating mechanic. Whatever the new gating mechanic that is put in place will still garner the same calls. It is and was the casuals who have squeaked the loudest that they did not want such gating. Most raiders in my experience realy did not care as getting the rad gear gave us something to do. By removing radiance, those of us in raiding kins can more readily and easily bring alts to runs. For the longest time the largest limiting factor for how many LT runs we would or could do in a week was having enough LM’s with the high enough radiance if we where going to do a tank and spank for a hard mode for a raid.
  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

12/06/10 1:48:37 PM#54
Originally posted by darkboaz
Originally posted by Rocketeer
Originally posted by darkboaz
Funniest thing I have seen in this thread was that they “fixed LI and radiance crap the raiders have whined about… Released new endgame content…” first part of the post was spot on but the last pure comic gold.
 
First, raiders had no issue with the radiance gating it was the casuals who fancied them selves’ raiders that had the issues. They did not want to have to grind previous content to be able to do current high-end content and there wish was granted. Now you can have some really good gear on par with top raid gear that is from cake walk 3 man instances where people have been known to cycle allts threw to pick up free marks that makes the old exploits on first ages from the turtle to look like they where earned.
 
The only significant change to LI is that they drop more often and can now be purchased with marks in vary little way fixes the conundrum that is spinning the wheel on creating crappie items. Perhaps it that we can now grind away on marks to buy your way to better tears on that LI that could be seen as a fix. At best LI had a bandage tossed at them but are not fixed. That players will destroy hundreds of them and then out grow them means that the only thing legendary about them is the headache involved in playing needle in the hay stack to find a good one.
 
New endgame content really, did I blink and miss it? Well killing the LT hard mode has become so passé that it is being done with a single group I guess that might count. We where given revamped old content that is scalable to higher levels but that’s not really new high-end or endgame content.
 
Don’t get me wrong I am still playing the game but lets not pretend that the OP is wrong when they are correct. Lets also not over look that they have no vested interest in keeping people like me happy since they got my money along time ago and they make more from there micro transactions then they do from  substantially advancing the story.

I thought it was amply clear that what i was posting about was "the plan", and not the current status. In other words we are still in the middle of that plan as it spans a timeline of about 1-2 years and we just got the F2P part behind us.

 

Edit: Strange enough that all that the news of Radiance going the way of the dodo was met with such a enthusiastic reaction considering the raiders where so happy with it. And before you mention them being all casuals, i saw several members of successful raiding kins just on the first 2 pages. And there wasn't a single "raider" speaking against it, only some concerned about having no gating at all which won't come to pass.

Ahh, I am sorry I thought the discussion was manly focused on and around the OP saying that 2 years between substantial expansions was fail. I still say that is an obviously correct statement especially if it is and was your position that they have only formulated a plain and have not yet put it all into effect to bring us the wonderfully changes you talked about.
 
If you discount mirkwood and the free updates after, which arguably was a shabby experience compared to MoM, then that can be argued. However even if you take the genre primus, WoW, it is just now going to release its 3 expansion in its 6th year, so clearly major expansions every 2 years can't be that bad. There are actually only very few games that have a faster release cycle for major expansions, EQ mainly i think, and many people do not agree with the quality of these expansions. Also there is the obvious problem of graphical quality. There is no question in my mind that creating a big zone for say LotRO or AoC just takes alot longer than an open zone for lets say EQ1. Especially with LotRO its easy to see that there is alot more going into the enviroment than just pixels and artificial grass, someone went to alot of pain to make those landscapes look beautiful, even natural.
 
 
There are times I hate the English language because it can be ambiguous and the same words can be taken in different ways. I did not think your post was clear that by using the word plain after the list you where talking about what is coming since in the first part of the post you are talking about the last years accomplishments. To me it looked more like you where enumerating the accomplishments and thus stating that those actions have moved us to a better game.
 
I know where you are coming from, english is also only my second language and im prone to falling into misunderstandings myself. I was trying to paint this imaginary "what-if" plan of a "could-be" meeting at Turbine sometime after mirkwood release. Obviously i can't know if it was just a chain of unrelated game changes or all part of a deeper plan, but i was trying to say that if it was a plan, and it gets executed along the lines that have been outlined to us further down the road, then it looks reasonable. Of course a faster execution while preserving quality would always be nice.
 
 
On radiance to me this is because radiance had been so substantially nerfed to simply being a gating mechanic. Whatever the new gating mechanic that is put in place will still garner the same calls. It is and was the casuals who have squeaked the loudest that they did not want such gating. Most raiders in my experience realy did not care as getting the rad gear gave us something to do. By removing radiance, those of us in raiding kins can more readily and easily bring alts to runs. For the longest time the largest limiting factor for how many LT runs we would or could do in a week was having enough LM’s with the high enough radiance if we where going to do a tank and spank for a hard mode for a raid.
 
 
And this is the problem of the Radiance system, it was a artificial limitation based on chance based drops without any skill involved. For a long time you could even exchange players after the bosskill to gear twinks, which showed how much of a farce the whole system really was.
 
 
Raids should be about skill, teamplay and the ability to develop strategies favorable to your particular groupsetup. Obviously there also needs to be a gear progression, but expecting new players to raid for months to catch up to where the current playerbase is doesn't work very well. Mostly because the current playerbase is not doing the old raids anymore(if there is a gear progression with the new raid being better), and yes it is a problem for casuals but even powergamers could have trouble catching up due to raid timers locking one to one raid per week or somesuch. There needs to be a middle way, not too easy to acquire "current raidlevel gear -1" but not so hard that it takes aslong as it did originally when it was the max raidlevel gear either.
 
  darkboaz

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 149

Forum Terrorist

12/06/10 2:48:59 PM#55

 

To me the biggest issue I have with the 2 years is where we came from to get here.   From release to Moria we were getting about every 2 months content equal to or greater than Mirkwood. Turbine on this vary site was recognized for expansion of the year and the as the best MMORPG studio.  We were moving along at a vary brisk pace threw the story of the Ring probably too fast.
 
 Incase no one notice each updates we had been getting where about the same as advancing the story arc forward by a month in the books. We have been sitting stagnate in a holding pattern now all but stuck in time not advancing the story and not truly exploring possible side line or tangent adventures. We are playing in a world that we know something about and participating in events that will come to a conclusion.  This game is in some ways vary unique in that it has a true built in end. That is unless they are going to be allowed to create their own stories after the burring of the Shire and the fall or Sarumon.
 
 It is in part because of this that to me comparing WoW and LotRO is like comparing McDonalds and let us say the Olive Garden they are both chain stores that feature food. At McDonalds, you get whatever you want you get it all at once and you go eat it. At the Garden, you will sit down pick out your food and eat it. However, they do not bring it all to you at once; you will start with an appetizer move on to soup or salad then on to a main corse possibly followed with a dessert. WoW is WoW it can make and brake its own world and story lines as it sees fit.  LotRO has a story that its telling unfortunately it not really been telling that story lately nor is it planning on telling much more of it for another year.
  User Deleted
12/07/10 3:06:41 AM#56

Actually, I prefer increases of 5 levels to the level cap to increases of 10 levels. With a 10 level increase, the old content and gear are instantly outdated, with a 5 level increase, old gear and content will still be an option.

I'd probably prefer (somewhat) regular single level increases of the level cap even more, for the same reason.

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

12/07/10 4:25:14 AM#57
Originally posted by darkboaz

 

To me the biggest issue I have with the 2 years is where we came from to get here.   From release to Moria we were getting about every 2 months content equal to or greater than Mirkwood. Turbine on this vary site was recognized for expansion of the year and the as the best MMORPG studio.  We were moving along at a vary brisk pace threw the story of the Ring probably too fast.
 

Personally i think the Mirkwood release with skirmishes and whatnot was huge, not MoM huge in landmass area, but still significant. Skirmishes firmly established themselves as an equal gamevariant to instances, raids, PvMP and questing. Not to mention that it laid the groundwork for scaling instances.

The draught came after that imho, we should have seen new skirmishes added every book release, new instances/raids every couple books, small incremental improvements to skirmishes and LIs etc. In other words wether you add 5 new zones to an expansion, or one new zone is insignificant. The only purpose of these zones is to hold enough quests to allow you to arrive at the new maxlevel, after you went through them with your char and reached the maxlevel it is the endgame content that is available thats the deciding factor. Or in other words, i rather have 1 zone, 3 interesting raids and new PvMP maps + skirmishes and a LI revamp, than 5 cool leveling zones and nothing to do at maxlevel but play a broken LI lottery.

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