Originally posted by grapevine

There is zero evidence of that.  That is just you hoping.  As stated, it (FF XI) was well received in Japan and the rest of Asia.  There is a huge difference between the FF XI and FF XIV launch.

 

The growth of FF XI is shown here: -

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

 

You can see the continued increase in subscriptions during its Asian (only) period, and the surge added upon Western release.  On all accounts FF XIV's been heading the other way (globally), since launch.  On one hand you had a game growing in success (i.e. FF XI), on the other you have one tanking fast (i.e. FF XIV).

Sorry, mate, but here you're just ignoring MMO history and trends. Look at the launches and sub numbers of MMORPG's released in 2004 and before, and you'll notice a gradual increase over an extensive period of time. Now consider the MMORPG's released post 2005, and you'll notice the same trend for the majority of them: a peak in subs at their launch, with a quick drop off in the first months after that.

Originally posted by taus01

The point is that FF14 will get similar good reviews once the game is released on PS3 first quarter or mid 2011. That's when it is finished.

FFXI got extremely bad reviews at the japan launch, it was buggy and almost no content. Players raged as much as they do here now. No difference.

It sucks that SE released it this early but to be fair, it is playable and people do enjoy it.

It's far from perfect and SE needs to get it's act together but i have seen how they did it with FFXI and it's no difference here.

No one knows what the reviews will be like so it is all wishful thinking on your part. You also moved the goal posts. Originally you didn't specify the JP launch but when people pointed out reviews were decent on the Western launch, you then changed it to the JP launch.

You are also revising history. The respected JP gaming mag Famitsu gave FF11 a 38 out of 40 which is a great score. But you are claiming that FF11 got "extremely bad reviews". A 38/40 in the most well known JP gaming mag is extremely bad? FF11 was even given the grand prize from Japan's Consumer Entertainment Software Association for 2002–2003. Why would they give a respected Japanese award to a horribad game?

When people imply that only when the PS3 version gets released will the gaming critics finally realize the greatness of FF14 seems to back up the claim that the PC version is the beta for the real game aka the PS3 version.

Originally posted by smut

When people imply that only when the PS3 version gets released will the gaming critics finally realize the greatness of FF14 seems to back up the claim that the PC version is the beta for the real game aka the PS3 version.

Meh. Saying that FFXIV's PC launch is the beta for the PS3 launch is the same as saying that the FFXI JP launch was the beta for the western PC launch of FFXI, or that the Korean Aion launch was the beta for the western Aion launch.

Talking about betas, I'd consider AoC a real 'beta' launch, and that was with a lot of bugs and crashing in the launch months, typical of a beta or unfinished game. Is there a lot of complaints about bugs and crashes and such for FFXIV? No, so it isn't a 'beta' launch. The major complaints are about design decisions and ingame features that a lot of MMO gamers didn't agree with. That doesn't make an MMORPG a beta, just look at the launches of AoC and Mortal Online and then you'll see what a so called 'beta' launch entails.

Originally posted by cyphers

Originally posted by grapevine

There is zero evidence of that.  That is just you hoping.  As stated, it (FF XI) was well received in Japan and the rest of Asia.  There is a huge difference between the FF XI and FF XIV launch.

 

The growth of FF XI is shown here: -

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

 

You can see the continued increase in subscriptions during its Asian (only) period, and the surge added upon Western release.  On all accounts FF XIV's been heading the other way (globally), since launch.  On one hand you had a game growing in success (i.e. FF XI), on the other you have one tanking fast (i.e. FF XIV).

Sorry, mate, but here you're just ignoring MMO history and trends. Look at the launches and sub numbers of MMORPG's released in 2004 and before, and you'll notice a gradual increase over an extensive period of time. Now consider the MMORPG's released post 2005, and you'll notice the same trend for the majority of them: a peak in subs at their launch, with a quick drop off in the first months after that.

You are missing the point.  It is not about subscription levels, per say.  The counter information is simply to prove that FF XI did not encounter the same poor reviews as FF XIV, along with its declining population.  FF XI was a success from launch (i.e. it received high review scores, with an increasing population).  With FF XIV SE have "dropped the ball", and not only that, but they lost it as well.  Their launches are at completely different ends of a success spectrum.  Trying to use FF XI as an example as to the possibility of FF XIV improving into a worthy MMO, is simply unfounded.

to all non-believers: yes FFXI got a absolute bad bad recognition back then proof:

http://zeusls.llima.net/download/ffxiupdatehistory.html

translated from japanese onto english. have fun readin it!

japanese players actually hated the game a lot. they only came to love it when it was nearly done for the western market.

there you got your proof.

Originally posted by Corres

to all non-believers: yes FFXI got a absolute bad bad recognition back then proof:

 

http://zeusls.llima.net/download/ffxiupdatehistory.html

 

translated from japanese onto english. have fun readin it!

 

japanese players actually hated the game a lot. they only came to love it when it was nearly done for the western market.

there you got your proof.

Going to correct you here.  The reviewer hated FF XI, the Japanese players didn't.  Although to be honest I don't see where he gives any ratings, or where he declares he hates it.  Its more of a diary of experiences, from closed beta through to release. 

Irrespective FF XI received many good reviews and awards, following both launches.  Like Smut pointed out Famitsu gave FF XI a 38 out of 40, and I linked Gamespots' review  following the Western launch.

Final Fantasy XI was awarded the grand prize from the Japan's Consumer Entertainment Software Association (CESA) for 2002–2003.  

Following the Western launch along with the good reviews it received GameSpy's 2003 PC MMORPG Game of the Year Award, and IGN's Game of the Month for March 2004.

FF XIV however is being universally panned, bar the odd exception from low key reviewers.

the game had it's beta phase before launch, it's just a fail game, just horrible

Originally posted by tbch2325

Hi guys,

 

 SE are making you pay for essentially what is a beta game

but they are marketting it as the finished product

  this isnt the finished product

people are saying on this forums and other review sites,

this game is pretty awful.

 

     >>>>>  That's exactly what they are doing.  People payed the box price for a game the CEO admitted was crap. ( using sugar coated words of course ). 

     >>>>>  That's exactly what they did.  They pounded the japan market with adverts and package deals and sold a collectors edition for a lot of money that contained a game that was reviewed on a lot of sites in the 30%-40% range and flat out called a broken and unfinished product.

     >>>>>  An MMO at release is expected to have a certain amount of gameplay up to the current level cap.  This game certainly didn't have that content at release. 

     >>>>>  Yes they do.

Originally posted by kishe

Its not finished...no mmo ever is

 

Check back year from now and if its still alive it might compare to FFXI of today as a product

I think that people have gotten so used to sub par releases that they forgot what "no MMO is ever finished" means. MMORPGs are not finished in a sense that the game is constantly evolving with new content, patches, expansions, balancing... stuff like that.

It's like SE released a graphic engine and added some basic gameplay fuctionality. Hell, CO had more content during alpha than FFXIV has now. The graphics are pretty sweet though.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by kishe

Its not finished...no mmo ever is

 

Check back year from now and if its still alive it might compare to FFXI of today as a product

I think that people have gotten so used to sub par releases that they forgot what "no MMO is ever finished" means. MMORPGs are not finished in a sense that the game is constantly evolving with new content, patches, expansions, balancing... stuff like that.

It's like SE released a graphic engine and added some basic gameplay fuctionality. Hell, CO had more content during alpha than FFXIV has now. The graphics are pretty sweet though.

This.......An MMO is never finished but it needs to have the base game there at launch. This game does not.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by kishe

Its not finished...no mmo ever is

 

Check back year from now and if its still alive it might compare to FFXI of today as a product

I think that people have gotten so used to sub par releases that they forgot what "no MMO is ever finished" means. MMORPGs are not finished in a sense that the game is constantly evolving with new content, patches, expansions, balancing... stuff like that.

It's like SE released a graphic engine and added some basic gameplay fuctionality. Hell, CO had more content during alpha than FFXIV has now. The graphics are pretty sweet though.

QFT.

When people pre-purchase games based on a few videos or a "beta", they tell the publishers and devs "We don't care about the quality of the game, we just want it!" Well to those who gotta have that brand new game the day it comes out... enjoy your $60 heaping piles of pre-purchased shit while lowering the bar for standards of what's expected in a finished product!

Not sure how I can comment on this thread without being either a fanboy or a hater, so I'll try to be as broad as I am wide. Suffice it to say, many people will play the game regardless of the "Problems" with it because it's a perceived thing. Many people may not perceive these "issues" as "problems"

Many people may also be hopeful and play the game because there's promises of fixes on the way, or there are fixes on the way.

And many people just don't play the game because it's frustrating to them or unresponsive.

Regardless, the opinions of people on the forums shouldn't decide how or why you should enjoy the game. It should be a reference for you to fall back to when you need to when it comes time to draw your own conclusions.. After all, even SWG has hard core fans, even among new players.

~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

If this was Protendo (for anyone thats seen code monkeys) theyd all have commited hara kiri by now.

But I like the game.

Originally posted by Miles-Prower

Not sure how I can comment on this thread without being either a fanboy or a hater, so I'll try to be as broad as I am wide. Suffice it to say, many people will play the game regardless of the "Problems" with it because it's a perceived thing. Many people may not perceive these "issues" as "problems"

Many people may also be hopeful and play the game because there's promises of fixes on the way, or there are fixes on the way.

And many people just don't play the game because it's frustrating to them or unresponsive.

Regardless, the opinions of people on the forums shouldn't decide how or why you should enjoy the game. It should be a reference for you to fall back to when you need to when it comes time to draw your own conclusions.. After all, even SWG has hard core fans, even among new players.

 

~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

And that is exactly why I always try the betas of every MMO I'm slightly interested in.  The change between open beta to launch is almost non-existant.  The game you experience in open beta is most likely going to be 99.99% the same experience at launch.

Honestly thought SE would surprise us with a nice update during open beta...you know, actually taking the suggestions and comments made on the beta boards seriously.  But apparently, they were too busy "Debugging" the game....right, and I'm the King of Atlantis.  They only started implementing serious changes when they realized their project, their job, their money was on the line.  Arrogant SOBs needed this wake up call.

Originally posted by taus01

We had our monthly update a few days ago. Next one is in December and i just posted some info about NMs. NO, IT's NOT A BETA!

I still have not payed anything except the Box price.

The game is treated the same way FFXI was, reviewers are just copying each other and catering to the masses.

I remember vividly how reviewers called FFXI boring, too hard, grindfest, no solo play, no real PvP and overall a japanese game that does not appeal to the US audience. (Oh crap forgot the famous, "It's made for console so it must suck on PC" argument).

Guess they learned nothing and half of them are want to be Journalists anyways, desperately promoting their blogs and websites.

 

Try it for yourself and make up your own mind.

 

But wait, those things mostly were (and still are) true. Seems like SE is the group that failed to learn anything from the past.

In response to your question, OP, is FFXIV in a finished state?  Well, they have not actually started charging people for monthly fees yet.  They've given current players two or three free months?  I'd say that's a good indicator as to whether the company actually feels their product is complete or not.

Duely Noted and i agree totally to what your saying.  11  is nothing but a grindfest , boring at times and hard. SE should understatnd that you cant rely on everyone to get things done. It took me over a  year to complete Chains of Promitha . With all the Shouling and begging and false promises. If it was for the level cap increase i wouldnt have completed this expansion. My honest opion is that  if you wee to add simplistic game features like hot keys , simplifed map system, menu system, god awful macros, and those drama ass linkshells. 

Hate to bring up the WoW comparison here, but I played WoW when it was first launched and multiple times afterwards. WoW at launch had multiple bugs, very little end-game, and several server crashes on a weekly basis. Yet here it stands today as the most successful and polished mmo in comparison to other sorry excuses for mmos that we have.

Did some of you FFXIV haters actually blindly and naively believe that SE was going to release an mmorpg with tremendous endgame content and the wealth of solo questing that you'd get from modern western games? My favorite quality about FFXI was being to jump into the game, get into a decent party, and then just camp mobs to gain some lvls before I had to leave. No need to worry about locating quest objectives, running around for an hour trying to find something or someone, or not being to find a group because everyone was too busy solo grinding for superfast questing xps. As far as I'm concerned, you can still party grind xp if you choose to do so with XIV.

I am not a fan of SE's levequest system at all, nor do I like having to repeat the same missions over and over again. However, I never intended to play FFXIV as a soloing game or one that would take me to the cap simply by quest-grinding. I do however, like the fact that I don't need to go through a long and frustrating series of solo grinding mushrooms and dying a million times to reach level 15 so that I can party at the Dunes and then die and lose my level and have to go back to grinding.

I think we should try and not judge this game so harshly and give SE some time to polish the game up and add more content. If they don't add fixes to the game in at least 3 months, then I would begin to harshly criticizes SE's game plan here. Also, for those of you who are already bored with the game and finding nothing to do, do you guys not have anything to do other than video games? No jobs, school, social life, daily commitments? I mean I find it hard myself to find the time to dedicate daily playtime for 1 game, let alone 2 or more.

Originally posted by Nafunieru

Hate to bring up the WoW comparison here, but I played WoW when it was first launched and multiple times afterwards. WoW at launch had multiple bugs, very little end-game, and several server crashes on a weekly basis. Yet here it stands today as the most successful and polished mmo in comparison to other sorry excuses for mmos that we have.

Yeah but at least it had an endgame and enough quests to get you to your 50s. WoW had molton core and Onyxia at 1.1.0. not to mention strath and blackrock spire. And while you usually did have to grind some in your 50s to cap out at least WoW spawned enough mobs that there was something to grind.

I have no doubt that FFXIV will eventually be a very good game, but as it stands now, it is still a very incomplete game. There simply isn't much to do. Its like that little boy that trys to jump into the pool and falls a full body length short right here Sure everybody cuts it close and has a few hiccups at release that need to be patched quickly. But they make it into the pool. SE fell way, way short. They didn't scrap their back on the edge of the pool. They landed a very noticable body length short of it.  I think they did this because someone seriously misjudged what was needed to get into the water.

Intended or not, the game simply is not complete enough for release. even with the last update. They are making great improvements. They are doing all the things they need to be doing. But as for me, I will wait until the december update and check it then. This game needs a lot more to do. Sandbox games always need more than "just enough." Not everyone enjoys every activity. Thats why you need well more than enough, so people can go do what they feel like doing. And you need to let them know that it is out there.

Originally posted by VikingGamer

Originally posted by Nafunieru

Hate to bring up the WoW comparison here, but I played WoW when it was first launched and multiple times afterwards. WoW at launch had multiple bugs, very little end-game, and several server crashes on a weekly basis. Yet here it stands today as the most successful and polished mmo in comparison to other sorry excuses for mmos that we have.

Intended or not, the game simply is not complete enough for release. even with the last update. They are making great improvements. They are doing all the things they need to be doing. But as for me, I will wait until the december update and check it then. This game needs a lot more to do. Sandbox games always need more than "just enough." Not everyone enjoys every activity. Thats why you need well more than enough, so people can go do what they feel like doing. And you need to let them know that it is out there.

I do agree with everything that you mentioned. I feel that FFXIV can eventually become something more than simply the potential to be good. However, it really does need to have those improvements ironed out and in place quickly or the consumer base isn't going to stick around. Heck, the consumer base already isn't sticking around past the free trial. 

In a way I already knew what to expect from this game before it was even released, which is why it doesn't surprise or bother me as much that they're not where they should be in terms of content. However, I also can see how others not familiar with FFXI or who expected something much more than XI, are extremely disappointed and disheartened by SE's lack of polish with the game. 

Overall, I do think that this will eventually become what the people wanted it to be. I just hope it's not too late when it actually happens. It almost feels like it's being set up for the story of the mmo that launches with several annoying bugs, lack of content, missing features and/or broken promises, but then several months the game becomes what it should have been when it was launched. The problem then is that anyone who had any interest in that game is now long gone.