I was working at MGS (Microsoft Game Studios) for some of the time that Vanguard was with them. I was just a petty Admin, but the dev team just wanted more than MS could give them. I actually cannot even remember the drama but it had something to do with money. Who knows.

Vanguard to me can be fine F2P, and yes, it does need a graphic overhaul of the models at the very least. Some people believe it doesn't which is fine, but those people equal what? 2 servers? Now its been years since VG has been out so the gameplay is hashed out already hopefully right? I mean, I have fond memories of EQ1 for years, but last time I logged in a year ago, i was like... Hell no. lol (moreso I couldn't figure out how to move around like im used too)

In order to take Vanguard to a F2P model or give it any sort of overhaul, SOE would have to consider the game a priority. Their actions suggest they don't considering the last Fan Faire didn't have any panels or even any mention of VG at all. They've also cut all development and resources for Vanguard over the last several years, and they've merged 14 servers down to 2.

At this point, VG is a good nostalgia game for people who want a playstyle closer to the original EQ, but that's about it. Don't expect any miracles for this game. It's Station Pass fodder, and nothing more.

Wasn't that game switched off already?

Oh.

Man, Sony Station is looking really weak these days. Free Realms is the best thing on there. SWG will likely be pulled when SWTOR launches, PotBS is going F2P, Planetside should have gone a long time ago. That leaves 4 different versions of EQ plus a kids MMO. Kind of defeats the object of a game pass.

I think this is still the best game on the market and doesn't need a graphics update at all.  More content would be good though. 

People are precious though, some bugs in the beginning and everyone is still writing off the game.  It's a really great game and it would be a shame if it went to waste.

I would without a doubt go back to VG if it went with a FTP market.  Hell, I occasionally go back just to run a few chars through the starter zone on new accounts because I get that itch.  I would also probably pay for a sub if the pop went up.

I think the best thing to happen would be another developer buying it, changing it to FTP and then adding content. SOE isn't going to spend anopther penny on it and any money they get from FTP Smed would see as recouping his losses.

Our guild spent a long time there and it was the best guild experience we have had in a game due to the challenge. If somoene spent a feww thousand man hours on this game I believe it could be the best MMO out there. It already is in terms of playability - I left because of lack of content.

Definitely the biggest tragedy in MMO land ever - saddens my heart every time I think of it.

Vanguard f2p. What would you put in the shop. I suppose it could be done but the way the did EQ extended they might scare away any remaining people even if the game is great.

I agree Vanguard is the great game no one plays. Me included have lauded its a great game but am not playing it. Guilty as charged. I would play if more people did is the catch 22.

Originally posted by cheyane

Vanguard f2p. What would you put in the shop. I suppose it could be done but the way the did EQ extended they might scare away any remaining people even if the game is great. 

 The things I've purchased from LotRO's shop have included:

• Shared storage space for characters on the same server.
• "Deed" XP boosts (Instead of killing 120 Orcs, I only have to kill 60, etc.)
• Earlier access to the riding skill/faster travel (didn't want to spend all that time running 'round the shire, then blow the few silvers I had to get a horse. Opted to spend real world cash instead.

Basically, I bought stuff that made it easier for my alts to interact, to save me a bit of time grinding for Deeds (which increase your abilities when completed), and get around more easily/faster. Nothing game-breaking, just more convenience for me.

There's no reason any other games can't offer these types of things as well.

The reason Sony has red-headed-step-childed this game is because they took it off Microsoft's hands, afraid it would take away from their EQ2 franchise. After purchase, Sony moved to release it too early, moved all the development staff onto what they thought were more important projects (literally for an EQ1 expansion). They bought it to kill it, and did a good job of it. No game can take the kind of neglect that Sony has given it without losing player base. If WoW or EQ2 no longer did updates or new content, they would suffer a similar fate. Sony wanted it buried, and now it is, which sucks, as I loved the game, but with one developer working full time on the game, he can barely keep up with immediate issues let alone new content. I love Vanguard, but the state the game is in, is exactly the state Sony wanted it in.

Personally I hate free to play. No trading,no grouping in some cases,no selling at the vender,etc...you end up spending more then actually paying the $15 a month. With games like Vanguard I think too much emphasis is put on end game all the time. Why not just add new quests every month to keep people busy? That would be less costly then expansions I think and I am claiming no expertise on the financial side. Are we so prone to discontentment that like getting a new cell every year we have to have a new game via expansions? Of course I am not saying I never want expansions but if money is an issue then maybe devs can made MMOs more modulated so its easy to add content rather then spending millions on a gigormous dev team. Or just lower monthly subs to like $5-$10 and raise the cost of the initial game another $10 to get the extra revenue at the start. If you can get 100,000 subscribers why can't that be profitable? I stopped playing the game initially because of the bugs and some of the other game mechanics but may get back in if they find a solution that woulod bring me back like just lowering the monthly sub. I am the type that plays more then one MMO so it becomes very costly for me at times. The economy has brought me to my knees though at this time.

Originally posted by jonaylward

Originally posted by Emane19

In my opinion, Vanguard died because it was released too close to Everquest II,

Usually, I find it appallingly hilarious when people don't do even the most basic of fact checking before posting an opinion that just makes them look...like they didn't do even the most basic of fact checking.

But in this case...I stand by you in solidarity, my friend...

Everquest II Release Date: November, 2004

Vanguard Release Date: January, 2007

I agree that Vanguard was released too soon to EQII - 2.25 years wasn't NEARLY long enough.

 

P.S. I fact checked that in about 90 seconds.

...On my phone.

...Sitting on the toilet at work.

 

Props for your excellent toilet sitting/phone searching achievments and noticing my poor word choice, thanks for the clarification. From the previous posters who also claimed EQ2s close proximity (not in time, but in content and likeness) to Vanguard, I do not feel the need to restate things. Sorry for the misstatement, but once again I'd like to commend your excellent use of a smart-phone.

More on-topic, any SOE game going F2P with the model they used for EQX is never going to make me want to play the game due to (as one poster said) th stench of greed. Granted, it is 'free', and they did code it, so they should get whatever money they can take from it.

I was in the beta and fell in love with the game... putting up with the bugs because it was beta. But, after they pushed it out early ... and let it rot for a year, I gave up. While my station pass was active, I would drop in to see if things had changed, but too many of the bugs remained.

I really wanted it to succeed.

Originally posted by sakshale

I was in the beta and fell in love with the game... putting up with the bugs because it was beta. But, after they pushed it out early ... and let it rot for a year, I gave up. While my station pass was active, I would drop in to see if things had changed, but too many of the bugs remained.

I really wanted it to succeed.

 Ditto.  I was in beta, loved the potential, but alas it did not come to pass.  It was mismanaged from day 1.  Selling out to SOE was the death blow because all SOE wants to do with it is let it rot so as not to take sus away from EQ2.  Oh well, it could have been a fantastic game.  I only stayed 8 months though before I gave it up.  Sad, very sad story.

I will say this for VG, it has one of the most loyal group of diehards I've ever seen in any MMO...and are undoubtedly responsible for keeping the game going even as little as it is.  But with no slight intended as I say this, that won't matter any.

SOE looks at this with ONE goal in mind, making $$$, and they don't want to make a good amount, they want a massive amount.  It doesn't matter what could've been, its their license and they mishandled it admittedly but then, so what else is new for SOE?  Their history speaks loud and clear on this, if the revenues drop below a magic number, they noticeably back off from funding, often to a very significant and noticeable detriment.  

I don't hate Sony mind you, but anyone who doesn't recognize how greed driven they are is in denial.  They don't think of profit margins like most other corps do, they're not looking for 'it all adds up' from their various streams of income, they look to dominate a given niche and crush opposition.  Nor do they give a fig how loyal a customer is, you are just $ to them, nothing more or less, your opinion, feelings, none of that matters.  So if the product fails to make their profit demands, the results is a given.  

All corps have a profit model, they have to or they cease to exist, that's only natural.  SOE's however is particularly damaging to our preferred hobby.  One would think they would've learned a lesson or two when their crown got taken away by Blizzard (say what you will about WoW...but its kicking SOE's arse like a UMC beating up a snotty teenager in a cage match), but they're not nothing if not stubborn.

Vanguard is an awesome game now. Vanguard would do very well as a F2P model there is no doubt of that . Heck kids today will flock to pretty much any game that is Free to play. Problem is that people are begining to realize that F2P games aren't really free. Vanguard will not go F2P anyways cause SOE is not willing to bother with it. Vanguard was not originally programmed by SOE people and I have heard some of the code used to program it is really hard to work with and SOE is not going to allocate the time or the resources to convert this massive nightmare of programming to a decent F2P model. I just don't see it happening although it would be awesome if they somehow could pull it off. This is one of the reasons they never did much in the way of patching it or further developing it as well. Vanguard is prob one of the last old school MMO games left that takes me back to real MMO's. I actually think one of the main reasons SOE bought it in the first place was to keep anyone else from developing it and take awy from thier precious Everquest franchise. There is no doubt in my mind if someone else had of given Vanguard just a little love it would prob be one of the biggest MMO games in existance right now! It's really sad that the game got off to such a bad start in the first place. Sigil had a hit on thier hands at the time but failed to realize how much money and resources was really needed to pull it off properly. SOE has done a lot for the game since that failed launch so it's not exactly like they don't know how to program for it they just aren't going to do it. I still think it could be a great game in the right hands. Kinda wish they would just sell it to someone else...question is who would be willing to take it when it would prob cost about as much just to create a completly new game, personally I think Vanguard could easily be a completly new game in and of itself is handled properly. I don't know what else to say.... 

         I have a 52 bard, Fogerty, who just sits in what I laughingly refer to as limbo. A self professed VG fanboy, I drooled over every scrap of news concerning VG since inception. I gobbled up the beta, practically cried on release day, I maxed leveled, I raided, I took a break.....rinsed, repeated. I absolutely love the game, it just LOST the player base. It had so much interest from so many people willing to break from the original EQ and EQII. No matter all the reasons, it doesn't (in it's current state) support itself financially. If the model can be switched to F2P with NO development, or another buyer could be sought (which I doubt SOE would entertain because of conflict of interest) then the game has a chance. Barring those two outside possibilities, it needs capital to survive; I'll admit that it in a perfect world it should have generated the revenue for it's own sustainability. We all know the circumstances surrounding this game, and what it COULD (there are no guarantees) be. The ultimate question is how it could be achieved. I've heard a lot of speculation and claims of implementing plans for longevity, but most proposals are incomplete and lack the complexity and preciseness that would count as due diligence in such an undertaking. I for one am praying for someone smarter than me to come along with a plan to keep the game going. If there were magic in the world and I could conjure up ten times the population it currently sports, and make it a $9.99 a month game with an expansion on the way, five full time dev's, and all the support it needs to get it up to snuff, I would love to watch it run. It's said that 'long is the race'. I hope someone comes up with something to save one of the best games available right now. Just my two coppers.

I sincerely hope SOE does not take Vanguard F2P, and here's why...

---

Originally posted by gigat
I would love to see Vanguard go F2P, just not the same model as EQ2X. A model closer to DDO and LOTRO would be the best. EQ2X stinks of greed.
Vanguard is one of my favorite games. I loved almost everything about Vanguard, except for the bugs and graphic anomalies.

---

EQ2X stinks of greed? After trying it out for a few weeks I agree.

But I am guessing you think/feel LotRO and DDO do NOT stink of greed?

To me they do, very much so... as much as EQ2X does. Sure the "advertisements" and the "arm twisting" is a little different in each game, but all give me the exact same "craving" after playing them for a half hour or so...

They make me want to throw my computer, my car, and my mother-in-law, through THEIR windows... and in that particular order.

I really REALLY DESPISE American capitalism and advertising, and I am American. If there was a country I thought I could go to to escape this stupidity I would, but guess who exported their culture everywhere else? We did. I will apologize right now for that...

I miss playing MMOs when the only time we thought about paying for anything with real life cash/credit was once a month, or even less if we paid quarterly or yearly. MMOs were FUN for me then because I could KEEP REAL LIFE OUT OF MY MMO!

EQ2X, LotRO, and DDO to me are three examples of how to take a great MMO and completely ruin it with commercialism. They are still great MMOS, but you know what they say...

"One "OH CRAP" wipes away 50 hearty slaps on the back"

Under NO circumstances would I ever want to see Vanguard be put through the F2P food processor.

Originally posted by Valentina

Well the community can't have it both ways, personally I think the game has great potential and they don't necessarily have to reduce the difficulty of everything. But hardcore games just don't do well anymore and they haven't for a very long time. I would prefer they went f2p copying what Turbine has done with DDO and LOTRo. No second copy like EQ2E!  But if they did that, they would probably bring in more money via a cash shop even if it was all mostly cosmetic, those types of things rake in the cash. This would of course mean they would need to put in a little more effort in putting out a significant update to go with the F2P relaunch of the game, and the only graphical "update" they'd need is to go back and finish the character model and animation revamp. The rest of the game is gorgeous and doesn't need much of anything right now. But I really think they are making a stupid mistake and missing out on a potentially huge profit by leaving Vanguard in the dust.

I agree that all they really have to do is to update some of the animations.

I would say that there is still an audience for hardcore games. and though I enjoy LOTRO, I really am starting to lean more toward wanting to have more hardcore games for my choosing.

I have kept a Vanguard account for quite some time and still play to this day albeit casually. I just love exploring the world and discovering all sorts of neat things. Heck, I even go into low level "dungeons" to just see what's there.

vanguard is about play to achieve, this pay to achieve cash shop crap would kill it, if it wasnt already dead.

Condemning VG to the same unscruplous profiteering I have seen in EQ2's cash shop would make me sick.

My only hope for this game is for SOE just to sell it to a indie dev so it can be invested in, tweaked, and relaunched to become to game it should be... as long as SOE own it, it will never be worth playing.

A model that would revive VG but will never happen:

Restrict player to one character slot

Free up until level 30

After level 30, a sub of $7.99 a month

Plus mounts, xp pots, character slots, and cosmetic items in a cash shop as well as cheap misc items such as training manuals, etc... No pay to win crap, just cosmetic items and items that allow you to pay to speed leveling.

VG saved.