Originally posted by SaintViktor

 How can you use a paid session account in Asia when it is done by the hour ? You can't. You can use prepaid cards as a subscriber because pre-paid cards are done in 30 day intervals but Asia does not use pre-paid cards. They use a rmt business model which is 100% different froma subscription model.

No, they don't use an RMT model. They use a pay by the hour model. Unless you also consider a monthly subscription fee an RMT model.

Would you feel then that it is more correct for them to boast 12 million players?

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by SaintViktor

 How can you use a paid session account in Asia when it is done by the hour ? You can't. You can use prepaid cards as a subscriber because pre-paid cards are done in 30 day intervals but Asia does not use pre-paid cards. They use a rmt business model which is 100% different froma subscription model.

No, they don't use an RMT model. They use a pay by the hour model. Unless you also consider a monthly subscription fee an RMT model.

last time i checked RMT was the dodgy activity of buying in game currency for real world cash.. sounds like someones quoting out of context to me..  .. this is getting so outlandish im half expecting it to end in 'WOW destroys peoples minds' .. well. might be true actually.. but who cares

Originally posted by SaintViktor

 How can you use a paid session account in Asia when it is done by the hour ? You can't. You can use prepaid cards as a subscriber because pre-paid cards are done in 30 day intervals but Asia does not use pre-paid cards. They use a rmt business model which is 100% different froma subscription model.

Uh. If pay-as-you-go is a RMT, then a monthly subscription is RMT as well.

Originally posted by Phry

last time i checked RMT was the dodgy activity of buying in game currency for real world cash.. sounds like someones quoting out of context to me..  .. this is getting so outlandish im half expecting it to end in 'WOW destroys peoples minds' .. well. might be true actually.. but who cares

I know right ;-)

Well, Saintviktor has been posting anti-Blizzard threads for a long time. I don't really mind and sometimes he brings good points. But this entire thread has posts ranging from 'Pay-as-you-go is not a real subscription so Blizzard cannot say 12 millions subscribers' to 'Blizzard is telling lies, no way WoW has 12 million players.'

Well, he is right, the word subscription isn't the right word to use when describing the asian payment model. Beyond that, I fail to see the point of this thread.

Originally posted by SonofSeth

Well, he is right, the word subscription isn't the right word to use when describing the asian payment model. Beyond that, I fail to see the point of this thread.

 The definition:

World of Warcraft’s Subscriber Definition

World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.

 So for those who can not read:

ONLY those who paid and had accessed the game in the last 30 days are counted towards the 12.000.000 subscribers base. Free trials and free promotions are not supported.

Since China only has this pay per hour system for all of its paid MMO's, it is clear the OP is just trolling and trash talking without substance.

You're being difficult now. The chinese use these:

to pay for their time. It's not like they sit there waiting for the 2 hour timer to run out. Sheesh. And last time I checked, using a prepaid card IS a subscription card. You can buy them from here. They also have credit cards they can use to pay for their time in advance. Also before you get on the whole gold farmer bandwagon. Chinese gold farmers play on EU and US servers so they pay traditional sub fees like the rest of us. Reason being is that they cannot transfer gold from CN servers to EU and US servers, so they have to play where their customer demand is.

What that means is only actual CN players that enjoy playing WoW use prepaid CN cards on CN servers. So yes they can and are being counted because they are actually playing for their own enjoyment.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Asia has no subscription model. According to Blizzard anyone who purchases a game time card is considered an active subscriber. In Asia you pay buy the hour, not monthly. So there is no way you can count them as subscribers when the rest of the world pays monthly. Someone in Asia can purchase only 2 hours of gameplay and not play for the rest of the month but yet can still be considered a monthly subscriber according to Blizzard. By Blizzard's wording it fits correctly but lets not kid ourselves, there is a huge difference between paying monthly like NA/EU does and paying for game time. Anyone with the least but of common sense knows paying by the hour is not the same as paying a monthly bill.

World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.

Asian players subscribe by the hour instead of the month.  Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? 

Just because they subscribe under a different model than you and I doesn't make them some sort of 3rd class citizens.  I think you are looking at this situation with a very closed minded view. 

Originally posted by Ramonski7

You're being difficult now. The chinese use these:

to pay for their time. It's not like they sit there waiting for the 2 hour timer to run out. Sheesh. And last time I checked, using a prepaid card IS a subscription card. You can buy them from here. They also have credit cards they can use to pay for their time in advance. Also before you get on the whole gold farmer bandwagon. Chinese gold farmers play on EU and US servers so they pay traditional sub fees like the rest of us. Reason being is that they cannot transfer gold from CN servers to EU and US servers, so they have to play where their customer demand is.

 

What that means is only actual CN players that enjoy playing WoW use prepaid CN cards on CN servers. So yes they can and are being counted because they are actually playing for their own enjoyment.

Tx for the info. The card looks cool :)

And 66 hours of play for (around) 5 dollars is NOT cheap btw. An average 3 hour/day player lasts around 22 days with this sum.

The income of a Chinese worker is less than 10% of a US one, so actually their paying system is more expensive (at least 3 times as much).

Also: the Chinese providor gets most of the revenu. Anyone knows how big the % is for Blizzard?

Originally posted by Arnstrong

Originally posted by Ramonski7

You're being difficult now. The chinese use these:

to pay for their time. It's not like they sit there waiting for the 2 hour timer to run out. Sheesh. And last time I checked, using a prepaid card IS a subscription card. You can buy them from here. They also have credit cards they can use to pay for their time in advance. Also before you get on the whole gold farmer bandwagon. Chinese gold farmers play on EU and US servers so they pay traditional sub fees like the rest of us. Reason being is that they cannot transfer gold from CN servers to EU and US servers, so they have to play where their customer demand is.

 

What that means is only actual CN players that enjoy playing WoW use prepaid CN cards on CN servers. So yes they can and are being counted because they are actually playing for their own enjoyment.

Tx for the info. The card looks cool :)

And 66 hours of play for (around) 5 dollars is NOT cheap btw. An average 3 hour/day player lasts around 22 days with this sum.

The income of a Chinese worker is less than 10% of a US one, so actually their paying system is more expensive (at least 3 times as much).

Also: the Chinese providor gets most of the revenu. Anyone knows how big the % is for Blizzard?

Umm not cheap for who? I would love to pay that. Buy it twice and I would have over a months worth of playing as opposed to $15 for a month.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Asia has no subscription model. According to Blizzard anyone who purchases a game time card is considered an active subscriber. In Asia you pay buy the hour, not monthly. So there is no way you can count them as subscribers when the rest of the world pays monthly. Someone in Asia can purchase only 2 hours of gameplay and not play for the rest of the month but yet can still be considered a monthly subscriber according to Blizzard. By Blizzard's wording it fits correctly but lets not kid ourselves, there is a huge difference between paying monthly like NA/EU does and paying for game time. Anyone with the least but of common sense knows paying by the hour is not the same as paying a monthly bill.

World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.

Asian players subscribe by the hour instead of the month.  Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? 

Just because they subscribe under a different model than you and I doesn't make them some sort of 3rd class citizens.  I think you are looking at this situation with a very closed minded view. 

 

 Who said anything about making Asia out to be a 3rd class citizen ? Nobody except you mentioned it nor has anyone implied that.  Subscribe by the hour ? Some kind of new concept or is it just a spin on definitons. As long as I have been alive and been doing business I never ever heard anyone using a "subscribe by the hour subscription plan". I'm not looking at it with a closed mind. I'm looking at it from  what people have been doing for years until Blizzard decided to add to the definition of what a subscription plan consists of. Subscribing by the hour is one of the most dumbest misconceptions I have ever heard of. The next time you are out int he real world and want to subscribe to something ask companies like cablevision,  pc gamer magazine, the phone bill company or your local car deal if they let you subscribe by the hour. Though if some choose to live in fantasy land and not use common sense then by all means. :)

Originally posted by Sirmaki

Originally posted by Arnstrong

Originally posted by Ramonski7

You're being difficult now. The chinese use these:

to pay for their time. It's not like they sit there waiting for the 2 hour timer to run out. Sheesh. And last time I checked, using a prepaid card IS a subscription card. You can buy them from here. They also have credit cards they can use to pay for their time in advance. Also before you get on the whole gold farmer bandwagon. Chinese gold farmers play on EU and US servers so they pay traditional sub fees like the rest of us. Reason being is that they cannot transfer gold from CN servers to EU and US servers, so they have to play where their customer demand is.

 

What that means is only actual CN players that enjoy playing WoW use prepaid CN cards on CN servers. So yes they can and are being counted because they are actually playing for their own enjoyment.

Tx for the info. The card looks cool :)

And 66 hours of play for (around) 5 dollars is NOT cheap btw. An average 3 hour/day player lasts around 22 days with this sum.

The income of a Chinese worker is less than 10% of a US one, so actually their paying system is more expensive (at least 3 times as much).

Also: the Chinese providor gets most of the revenu. Anyone knows how big the % is for Blizzard?

Umm not cheap for who? I would love to pay that. Buy it twice and I would have over a months worth of playing as opposed to $15 for a month.

 Not cheap for the Chinese. With Chinese workers having 10% of the average US salaries and still a 5 dollar value to play for 22 days...

It would mean that in the US you would pay around 50+ dollars to play for a month.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Asia has no subscription model. According to Blizzard anyone who purchases a game time card is considered an active subscriber. In Asia you pay buy the hour, not monthly. So there is no way you can count them as subscribers when the rest of the world pays monthly. Someone in Asia can purchase only 2 hours of gameplay and not play for the rest of the month but yet can still be considered a monthly subscriber according to Blizzard. By Blizzard's wording it fits correctly but lets not kid ourselves, there is a huge difference between paying monthly like NA/EU does and paying for game time. Anyone with the least but of common sense knows paying by the hour is not the same as paying a monthly bill.

World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.

Asian players subscribe by the hour instead of the month.  Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? 

Just because they subscribe under a different model than you and I doesn't make them some sort of 3rd class citizens.  I think you are looking at this situation with a very closed minded view. 

 

 Who said anything about making Asia out to be a 3rd class citizen ? Nobody except you mentioned it nor has anyone implied that.  Subscribe by the hour ? Some kind of new concept or is it just a spin on definitons. As long as I have been alive and been doing business I never ever heard anyone using a "subscribe by the hour subscription plan". I'm not looking at it with a closed mind. I'm looking at it from  what people have been doing for years until Blizzard decided to add to the definition of what a subscription plan consists of. Subscribing by the hour is one of the most dumbest misconceptions I have ever heard of. The next time you are out int he real world and want to subscribe to something ask companies like cablevision,  pc gamer magazine, the phone bill company or your local car deal if they let you subscribe by the hour. Though if some choose to live in fantasy land and not use common sense then by all means. :)

 They use game time cards. Every subscription number you've ever seen for a Korean MMO uses this. It started twenty years ago because almost no one owned computers and everyone played online games in cyber cafes. You may think it's dumb but it's the dominant subscription model in Asia. We pay a hell of a lot more per hour to play the same games and pay $50 to buy them besides. Yeah we're so damn smart.

it doesn't exactly convert like that.

---

To the OP...does it matter, we all know it's marketing...

WoW could have 40 million and I wouldnt give a shit.

I would still play what i play.

Originally posted by Rockgod99

WoW could have 40 million and I wouldnt give a shit.

I would still play what i play.

 Well of course. But what blows my mind is why people can't accept that 12 million people like to play WoW? I mean who gives a rat's behind either way?

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Asia has no subscription model. According to Blizzard anyone who purchases a game time card is considered an active subscriber. In Asia you pay buy the hour, not monthly. So there is no way you can count them as subscribers when the rest of the world pays monthly. Someone in Asia can purchase only 2 hours of gameplay and not play for the rest of the month but yet can still be considered a monthly subscriber according to Blizzard. By Blizzard's wording it fits correctly but lets not kid ourselves, there is a huge difference between paying monthly like NA/EU does and paying for game time. Anyone with the least but of common sense knows paying by the hour is not the same as paying a monthly bill.

World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.

Asian players subscribe by the hour instead of the month.  Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? 

Just because they subscribe under a different model than you and I doesn't make them some sort of 3rd class citizens.  I think you are looking at this situation with a very closed minded view. 

 

 Who said anything about making Asia out to be a 3rd class citizen ? Nobody except you mentioned it nor has anyone implied that.  Subscribe by the hour ? Some kind of new concept or is it just a spin on definitons. As long as I have been alive and been doing business I never ever heard anyone using a "subscribe by the hour subscription plan". I'm not looking at it with a closed mind. I'm looking at it from  what people have been doing for years until Blizzard decided to add to the definition of what a subscription plan consists of. Subscribing by the hour is one of the most dumbest misconceptions I have ever heard of. The next time you are out int he real world and want to subscribe to something ask companies like cablevision,  pc gamer magazine, the phone bill company or your local car deal if they let you subscribe by the hour. Though if some choose to live in fantasy land and not use common sense then by all means. :)

I like how you skip right over the post that shows you proof that they pay for their time in advance like a subscription/prepaid card and jump right on Daff for insinuating that you view the chinese as 3rd class citizens. Nice deflect. Regardless of how you may view hourly subscriptions (which I showed you was NOT really the case as they buy cards with well more than an hour of gametime), the point is they are subscribers and they are actively playing, hence they count.

Now if you really want to get into a discussion about how silly a hourly subscription sounds then be prepared to understand that a subscription by definition is: a business model where a customer must pay a subscription price to have access to the product/service.

And since they are paying to have access, they in turn are subscribers. Doesn't matter if it's 1 hour , 1 month, 1 year or 1 lifetime (as in lifetime subs). Doesn't matter if it's subcribing is periodic or automatic. Stop trying to debunk the undebunkable. You pay, you use, you re-up and ultimately you are subscribing.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Rockgod99

WoW could have 40 million and I wouldnt give a shit.

I would still play what i play.

 Well of course. But what blows my mind is why people can't accept that 12 million people like to play WoW? I mean who gives a rat's behind either way?

The only reason the OP cares is because the WoW fan bots on this forum constantly bring up the sub number argument when discussing the quality of mmos.

Considering that WoW has what 8 million of those subs in Asia? the OPs point is valid. Even more valid when you read into how they count those subs (if you spent $1 on WoW in a month you're counted).

I honestly think we shouldnt care... but i get where he's coming from.

Why does anyone care what number a MMO gets to brag about?  If you have fun with the game, play it.  The only way to know if you truly will have fun with the game is to actually play it.  Subscription number bragging won't tell you if the game is fun for YOU.  That's why almost every MMO has some sort of free trial period.