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uh...yeah....the entire idea is to build your own superhero. and the fact that his path is ice is fine...he does freeze things, right? Im very glad that SoE took a more conservative approach and how you can choose your powers. Take a look at Chumpions Online...you can have anything you want (with the more points you put in the tree) and basically exploit all of the uber super powers. when they decide to nerf, your toon is now wasted and you must find some cash to remove all your talents and start again. Champions Online thought giving players all the freedom in the world was the best idea. That's because players clammored for it. Well....when all your wishes were granted, those dreams were destroyed man. Never worked out. It goes to show that most gamers need to at least partially have their hands held through some decisions in games, especially with establishing archetypes and skillsets. From what I've read and seen this game will be what CO should have been... CO = No named brand cereal DCUO = Count Chocula Cereal no comparison...now go watch superman cartoons if ya wanna be superman....id rather create my own toon with his/her own identity. |
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11/19/10 12:16:43 PM#2
You're wrong on the reasoning as to why Champions is set up the way it is. It's based on the P&P game. A very good P&P game. But the fan faire of the P&P was because it had a very great system for a player to create/modify powers to one's liking. In an MMO you can't because of balance issues.
To me Champions was lack luster with the powers, and I felt I could do no wrong only take longer, which made me think my character was meh, no matter what I did. It also felt very theme park-ish with each zone having it's own roller coaster ride of quests that makes sure you see most of the zone. |
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11/19/10 12:18:33 PM#3
Originally posted by chaod1984
That's just it - a system that is so much more restrictive/limited is going to make it even harder to create a toon with a really unique identity. Players will still be min/maxing OP powers in DCUO just as in any other game - you'll just have less to pick from. CO = restaurant with a 4 page menu DCUO = restaurant with a 1 page menu At this time, diversity does not appear to be a strength with DCUO so far, but information is still pretty limited, so the general MMO population still really doesn't know. I'm still looking forward to more information. I really hope that the game turns out to be not nearly as limited as it appears right now. Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned. |
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Ramonski7
 Spotlight Poster
Joined: 5/21/03
"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something." |
11/19/10 12:20:34 PM#4
They wouldn't have a problem with this if they allowed the opposite to happen. Let me build a kryptonite suit of power and you can have your supermen...
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Deathstrike2
 Advanced Member
Joined: 2/04/06
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr. |
11/19/10 12:23:54 PM#5
Originally posted by Ramonski7 Wouldn't that be what Lex wears? So if you can't make a superman, I'm assuming you can't make a Lex either? |
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Ramonski7
Spotlight Poster
Joined: 5/21/03
"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something." |
11/19/10 12:29:56 PM#6
Originally posted by Deathstrike2 Exactly. Such a limited system they are making. I would have been happy if they just allowed pure freedom to create anything, heroes and villians. I mean the DC mythos is already balanced enough without trying to handicap players and their creativity. If they allowed kryptonite and supermen who would have a right to complain? It sure as hell wouldn't be comic book fans nor people who knew who Superman was...
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maskedweasel
 Tipster
Joined: 9/24/07
"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane." |
11/19/10 12:31:35 PM#7
Originally posted by Rohn
This isn't entirely true, there are some specifics we don't know about DCUO but there are things we do know. What we don't know is how many powers will be in an entire set, including iconic and travel powers. What we do know is you are only allowed 8 on your hotbar. This will assist in diversity of characters as two fire characters can select completely different powers depending on what their focus is, as well as utilize different movement and iconic powers which would make your character unique.
CO on the other hand, you could have tons of powers, but the truth is, most of them were exactly the same power, albeit with somewhat of a different effect such as knockback or fire damage. There was no major limiting factor which made it possible for everyone to multiclass with few penalties. "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"
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11/19/10 12:32:37 PM#8
Superman < magic chars < all other peeps < Superman...........? Balance that. Then throw kryptonite into the mix and all those people wanting to be Superman are suddenly screaming "nerf everyone else". Right? Food for thought. I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil |
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maskedweasel
Tipster
Joined: 9/24/07
"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane." |
11/19/10 12:37:37 PM#9
Originally posted by Ramonski7 It wouldn't be a fair game in that case. You'd have 1 Superman Character who would be extremely over powered but completely useless against the 1 character with kryptonite. Talk about rock paper scissors. Every superman character can beat everyone else (rock) but the kryptonite character can beat superman (paper) but everyone else can beat the kryptonite character (shotgun). It would really limit what kind of characters people would play. You'd only need one of each character and then all it a day.
Not to mention it doesn't really mesh with the story they have set in place which also explains why they haven't added the green lantern character. There is no reason we'd see an influx of kryptonians on the planet, nor would we suddenly see a tremendous amount of kryptonite throughout the world. "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"
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Ramonski7
Spotlight Poster
Joined: 5/21/03
"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something." |
11/19/10 2:11:42 PM#10
Originally posted by maskedweasel If that's what copycats want give them what they want. Why does it have to be fair to them when everyone else can craft a kryptonite ring, some boots or any piece of equipment to keep supermen in check. Also if nano machines are giving everyone powers is it so hard to create a yellow sun power set with weaknesses to magic and kryptonite? Who said anything about them being true kryptonians? I just think it's enough balance in the DC mythos as it is to keep most wannabes in check all you have to do is open the flood gates.
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11/19/10 6:04:18 PM#11
Originally posted by Ramonski7 Because it's a game, and games are supposed to be fun. If you want to play as an invincible Superman, go play a single player Superman game. In an MMO you have to have balance. And no, the DC mythos is not already balanced enough. Superman is pitted against comparable oponents in the comics, but he could stomp most other superheroes into dust without much effort. Making an invincible superman and giving everyone else kryptonite is a complete waste. Everyone would have it and Superman would just be a weak version of himself, anyway. What would be the point? Besides, you aren't Superman. He is unique. He's already in the game. I really don't think comic fans would have a problem with that. Besides, if you let everyone create whatever type of character they wanted, without restriction, there would be less variety, not more. Everyone would be super strong, invulnerable to everything, and have every power imaginable. Why make Batman, when you can make Superman with gadgets? Multiplayer games need balance, especially when PvP is involved. There are always people that argue for things like this and come up with all kinds of arguments to justify it, but the simple truth is, people don't play unbalanced games. It's not fun. The game would probably not last much beyond the first month.
Originally posted by Rohn That's not true. DCUO appears to be more customizable than CO. It has less power types, but as someone already mentioned, that is more a matter of creating redundant abilities and giving them different names. From what I've seen, DCUO gives you more variety in how you customize your characters abilities. Also, there is tons of information out there. Probably more than just about any other game that is still in beta. It's just not all in one place, and most of it is in videos. |
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maskedweasel
Tipster
Joined: 9/24/07
"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane." |
11/19/10 6:25:32 PM#12
Originally posted by Ramonski7 I completely understand what you're saying, I do wish there was a weakness system, I was hoping or it in Champions and they did have some form of weakness in CoX with the Epic Archetypes and the quantum guys. Thats usually how super heroes work. They have all this immense power, but they also have these glaring weaknesses that get exploited. It would be great to see something like that, but I also understand trying to keep everyone on an even playing field as much as possible. Part of it is because its a game, another part is the way they've done the story.
Perhaps we'll see something like this come to MMOs in the near future. "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"
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Ramonski7
Spotlight Poster
Joined: 5/21/03
"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something." |
11/19/10 8:59:33 PM#13
Originally posted by kiern I understand it's a game and people want to have fun. I also understand that you have those that forego any commonsense and go straight for the godmode button a.k.a. Superman. But these people never seem to fully understand that Superman has to live with his greatest weakness as well. Does that stop him from doing what he has to do to pull through? Do you see him whinning that someone has kryptonite and he can't do anything? All I'm trying to do is keep the deadbeats in check. You want Superman's powers? Fine! You also get his weakness, making your whole plan to steamroll your way through the game moot.
Who cares about balance? Trying to find a balance in mmos have been folly since the begining. There is only balance when people start to team up like superheroes should be doing anyway when faced with a near impossible task. Also there is no need to find balance among superheroes because they shouldn't be dueling, arena fighting or instance battling each other in the first place. And villians (if they allowed them in) are made specifically to fight heroes to begin with. If you decide to make a villian then be ready to get your ass handed to you when you come to a supermen tango with no kryptonite. Too many of these superhero mmos are trying too hard to be everything to everybody. Open up the box and let the chips fall where they may. But it won't happen because they are so scared of losing the lowest common denominator that they f up a perfectly fine universe to begin with.
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As I stated, in a different way, and as many others have stated in this post, some semblence of balance is required to make a game fun. Being able to do whatever you want has never worked in real life or gaming. There needs to be structure and balance in order to create the problem of having to make tough decisions and to also create more diversity. Like another poster said, the more freedom anyone has to build their skills, the less diverse everyone's skill set will be. So for all you Superman dorks (the movies suck by the way...cept for the one with Richard Prior, cuz Richard Prior is awesome) stop it with the "Why can't I be Superman...whahhhhh!!!) posts and just wait for release. Im sure you'll enjoy the game...Remember that 2 very experienced comic book writers are actually making alot of the storylines for this game while the devs build a game around it. I think the final outcome will be better than most imagine and it will be leaps and bounds better than CO's campy and often shallow storylines. |
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11/20/10 2:04:52 AM#15
All I wanted to do in this game is become like superman. Not saying overpowered super freak. Just like him. If that messes this up for me Im throwing this out the window. |
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11/20/10 9:54:37 AM#16
Define "become like superman." What do you want your character to be? so... |
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11/20/10 10:27:29 AM#17
Personally I dont see whats so wrong with a rock-paper-scissors system. Its not like it had to be so skewed that a rock-type couldnt EVER defeat a paper-type, the rock-type would just be at a clear disadvantage. I cant believe we soon have 3 superhero mmos, and not one of them have tried a strength/weakness system. You want to be a flaming demon, with 80% resistance to fire..? Fine, then you'll take 50% more damage from water and double damage from ice, plus normal damage from magic and so on... If a character like that would meet a ice-based character, then it would be over very fast, one way or another. If he'd run into another firebased guy..? Then they would fight til they get bored or until everything around them would be charred to dust and one of them wins... Of course a system like that could end up REALLY messy and a devs worst nightmare if they dont get the numbers somewhat right... but it would be a really FUN system imo. |
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maskedweasel
Tipster
Joined: 9/24/07
"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane." |
11/20/10 10:59:08 AM#18
Originally posted by Remains It would be a fun system in some aspects, but unfortunately it just isn't a great system overall when you are playing a game. I mean, take CoX for example with their epic powersets. These awesome alien archetypes do some really cool things. When you run through missions you can kill just about everything with no problems until you run into that 1 quantum character that can kill you in just 2 shots.
Its great that you're so powerful but you're also very flimsy too. In this kind of system you run the risk of being completely useless when you are in some situations. It just gets compounded by the fact that these worlds have vast amounts of content, and much of the content you will be going through regardless of class. You don't want to run into a bottleneck because you are doing a mission against a bunch of water monsters when you're a fire character.
Its just the way these games are setup. There would have to be a very careful execution of the way the game and world are played through for this to work properly. I don't think SOE will be the ones to bring that to us. "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"
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11/20/10 11:31:23 AM#19
Originally posted by Ramonski7 I'm not sure what exactly makes you feel that if the DC universe is already balanced that would have any significant effect on an mmorpg based on the ip. In theory any good ip is going to have it's own inherent balance as it tends to add some excitement if you find that the villain has some chance at matching the hero, but this has absolutely nothing to do with an mmorpg especially one that is going to have pvp included. I guess there are a few different games that in fact do let you have and level every ability in the game without restriction but these are few and far between and often just tend to favor anyone who can dedicate the time to gaining and maxing those abilities. I'm mostly non commital on the issue myself, if they chose to leave the game that open I'd certainly try it and laugh as the forum wars raged between the fans and haters and if they go as they seem to be I'll still play and enjoy it if they can come up with a system that isn't too restrictive. |
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11/21/10 12:30:39 AM#20
fyi superman aint the juggernaught.
he needs yellow sun to do anything super, he needs rest periods to recharge, he runs on battery 24/7, and if you really push him, he uses up his super powers faster then he gets them back, especially in atmo, as sun is 300x weaker after the air filters it, thats why you always see him out in space taking a direct dose of yellow when hes worn down.
hell did you even watch superman returns? it took his lab years to revive him with yellow lamps to the point he came out of his coma.
now while he his damn near immortal as long as some yellow sun is hitting him, he can be worn down to not being able to laser eyes or freezy breath or fly or run fast or punch harder then an anorexic 5 year old girl with a body image complex. hit him with kryptonite, and well, ya hes dead.
im not saying i dont appreciate superman as a dc hero, hes one of my favorites, but in the comics at least, and in this game, hes far from unstoppable, hes just a man with special abilities that does his best to use them for the good of others!
i look forward to facing the man of steel as a worthy adversary, muahahahaha, im going to see which one of us ends up stronger, and im willing to go where he wont! radioative exposure, check! bane venom injector, check! bring it on blue boy! |
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