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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What do you feel is the biggest failure that released MMORPGs are the victim of?

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40 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 166

11/01/10 5:18:20 PM#21

The biggest issue with modern mmos being released is that they generally are in such an unfinished state they can barely be called alpha versions.

The second biggest issue is the fact that they all rip each other off. Blizzard managed to rip off the 1st gen mmos in a such a way that it appeared to many, many first time mmo'ers as though WoW were the original and best. Since then, we've seen other mmos copying WoW's approach in one form or another, and it is generally met with disaster or at the least, much lower than projected sub retention.

Between these two issues most of the modern mmos released since 2004 have not been able to gain a substantial grasp on the western market. At one point in time Lineage 2 had 14 million worldwide subscribers; WoW just reached 12 million. There have been bigger games than WoW, which often gets overlooked by both gamers and publishers alike.

Until we see a new mmo from Blizzard I fear we will be stuck in this endless cycle of repetition and corporate theft. The only mmo I've even played that was nothing like WoW out of current gen p2p mmos was released in an alpha state, based on my experiences in beta and the fact that the dev/pub (same company) did hardly any changes to the game during beta. So it seems we're either doomed to an incomplete pile of buggy code, a cheap knockoff of a polished knockoff of a first gen mmo, or both.

Other than companies imposing limitations to questing, etc, nothing new has been brought to the table for quite some time. Even Aion's flying idea was roughly taken from a f2p, Flyff. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people buy games based on graphics, so the marketing department shows off some trailers and some hawt ingame footage, and a new mmo sells at least 500k box copies, which is usually close to enough to churn a profit. It doesn't cost as much as they claim to make mmos.

In other words, I see a lot of people gripe about the mmos that come out and have come out the past several years, but yet when the new mmo launches those same people are usually first in line with a fistful of cash, ready to invest in the "next big thing that will kill WoW".


Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/07
Posts: 69

"Funny how they call the award "Game of the Year" what they compare them to is the main reasoning."

OP  11/01/10 5:27:47 PM#22
Originally posted by theartist

...Really the biggest failure for any MMO is the community.

I'll even lump myself in to that statistic and FFXIV's release. I read bad things before, figured they would be fixed during beta because it all seemed fixable. I was busy, didn't get to open beta so I just waited for my week of early access. I played that week and was like.. "Oh, well I'm in early I'm sure by offical launch day there will be a patch." Lauch day comes. "Oh, no patch? Wow lots of people what fun! I'm level 10.." 1 week later still silence and I've moved up in content.. to nothing. "Uh this fucking sucks..." A message about the problems and 30 more days of playing towards.. Nothing? I'm not getting any reward for doing all of this repeative crap? Oi...

My expectations were as loafty as the game's specifications. My bad.

I think we are ALL guilty of being a cruel community, more for paying games than non. I will admit that a game that I pay for, I want it to deliver. I recently played a FPS Call of Duty: World at War. Great awesome game, problem is the game was short. If I can beat a game in 3 days without playing heavily, then the game does not have enough hours built in the storyline. I, of course, went as ballistic as the rest of the gaming community that bought the game.

We expect the developers to deliver GOLD if we pay for the game. Problem is, my gold may be your silver or platinum. The Devs never know what to expect. As for FFXIV, they probably figured that the look would capture enough people. Well, I won't say that particularly, we are all the "Simon"s of critics for video games. This is well known. But this is progress. Without the community to look at a game and tear it apart, digest it, then spew out obscenities at the terrible game that is lacking in "A, B and C" how would the devs know where or how to improve?

I think also that the Devs fail to listen to the community and command their game more like communists. It is THEIR game and you will play the way they want, broken or not. This is, IMO, a failure to comprehend the market to whom you are trying to sell the game to. When this happens, they go F2P...after that, they die a slow death in server merges and then ultimately the one or two players left on the game leave when the game is laid to rest.

Sad process, but progress is progress. Devs need to learn from mistakes and grow, don't bandaid them with glitter.



Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

11/01/10 5:35:13 PM#23

Do I have to limit it to just one?

Seems like a combination of things:

- Launching too early: before the game is ready content and/or gameplay wise

- Not listening to beta testers: not every little gripe but when a significant portion of your testers have the same complaints the light bulb should go off there may be a legitimate concern or oversight

- Having customer service features and personnel in place at launch: not weeks or months later

-Communication with customers and potential customers

-Check their calendar:  it's 2010 not 1999.  People are not going to be as patient or forgiving with a game that releases with severe issues in gameplay, content, ui, etc. 

-Increased knowledge of the playerbase the game is geared towards: Doesn't seem like many have a clue anymore.  You could make an argument that some aren't even following trends that have happened with other mmo launches or at least appears that way with some.

-Lose the ego: It doesn't matter if you're "Company X" that has made "Game Y" or is using "IP Z".  If your game is not ready or a significant portion testing it are unhappy then when you release the game you can expect the same results.  The majority of players will not stick around no matter what.  There are too many other games out there at this point.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

11/01/10 9:43:35 PM#24
Originally posted by aleos
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by Loke666

As many other said before: Releasing the game too early.

Nothing else have destroyed so many games. Just look on Vanguard, it is actually a pretty fun game and yet have it almost no players.

People not playing has nothing to do with releasing early. Its the best PvE game on the market but no one touches it because SoE isn't developing it or advertising it anymore.

no one plays it because it was released as a steaming pile of bug shit. And that is their only memory.

Most people with a brain long since figured out Vanguard is a great game. Thousands upon thousands have returned, only to see that SoE has absolutely no intention of trying to do anything with it, so they leave. The stigma over launch has long since passed. 


Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 5629

11/01/10 10:15:34 PM#25

Dumbing down instead of adding depth.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3253

I am more than some of my parts

11/01/10 10:36:53 PM#26
Originally posted by CymTyr

Until we see a new mmo from Blizzard I fear we will be stuck in this endless cycle of repetition and corporate theft.

 yeah it's all up to Blizzard. lol


releasing a game too early - definately

using up more then 3/4 of your development budget before release and hoping that initial sales will pull you through to fix the bugs beta missed - APB

releasing a game when advertised features are not yet included -  AoC

releasing a game simply because it's spearheaded by someone that is supposed to know something - TabulaRasa, Hellgate London

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

11/01/10 11:36:25 PM#27
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by CymTyr

Until we see a new mmo from Blizzard I fear we will be stuck in this endless cycle of repetition and corporate theft.

 yeah it's all up to Blizzard. lol


releasing a game too early - definately

using up more then 3/4 of your development budget before release and hoping that initial sales will pull you through to fix the bugs beta missed - APB

releasing a game when advertised features are not yet included -  AoC

releasing a game simply because it's spearheaded by someone that is supposed to know something - TabulaRasa, Hellgate London

Yeah the irony in the quoted post is great. If anyone is guilty of repetition of corporate theft, it's Blizzard.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/03/07
Posts: 899

Extreme copy-paste development in FFXIV
SE "official player" experiences revealed as fake

11/01/10 11:50:36 PM#28

     I think Greed ruins all MMO games.  They don't try to make the game the most fun it can be which will naturally draw more players + more money.  They try to engineer hamster wheels that will keep you running in circles for the rest of your life while you pay the sub and shell out money at the item shops for things that make the actual gameplay bearable. 


"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"


Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

11/01/10 11:59:07 PM#29
Originally posted by colddog04



Releasing too early - You never get a second chance to make a first impression.


Releasing with cutting edge system requirements - If it's choppy and blocky, it's never going to be fun for that person.


Releasing without features that are advertised on the box - This happens FAR too often. People expect one thing and get another.

This is pretty much what I was going to say. I know most MMOs are a constant work in progress, but it seems to me that many companies continue to set their standards rather low.

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.


Advanced Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3332

11/02/10 7:34:17 AM#30

Aiming for a million subs.    If you try to make a game for a million people, it will never have anything unique,innovative or edgy.  

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall


Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3213

Veni, Vidi, Converti

11/02/10 7:47:50 AM#31

For me, an MMO that I cannot understand why the devs decided to make it.

1) Why is it going to be fun, why are people going to play this instead of any other MMO, how is it going to appeal in a unique way, if it is made for this genre how have the strengths been played to and limitations overcome?

It a good sign when a company asks these questions and starts providing answers even before release. The converse is the worst thing about MMOs imo as it's already too late by then!


Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3921

11/02/10 7:50:56 AM#32

NO vision or direction..  It appears to me that only vision these devs have anymore is $$$$$.. How fast can we toss out a marketable product to give us the best return on investment.. Quality has taken a back seat in gaming..


Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/10
Posts: 302

11/02/10 8:06:19 AM#33
Originally posted by Rydeson

NO vision or direction..  It appears to me that only vision these devs have anymore is $$$$$.. How fast can we toss out a marketable product to give us the best return on investment.. Quality has taken a back seat in gaming..

And it all backfired.

Insane amount of money to go for and they thought it would come automatically.

Throw in some fake 3D, a few quests, loot/items,an avatar and a few servers and you raked in the money per month.

History of the last 5 years.


While the  first step should have been: design a proper MMORPG engine (count 3 years to find just that).



Forum Bunny

Joined: 10/24/10
Posts: 2693

11/02/10 8:44:20 AM#34

My reasons would be

1. Corporate suits taking control of direction and vision.

2. Games being released too early with little testing.

3. Lack of innovation/poorly implemented innovative ideas

4. Improper advertising/misleading information about the game

5. Games being released too early where the bugs found during tested were not fixed.

6. Lack of focus.  Devs making the game only to squeeze out money or devs trying to make a game they want without proper direction.

7. They dont seem to ask themselves "Is this fun?" or "Would I subscribe to this?" before they release and instead focus more on what they think the people would find fun (such as carrot on a 1mile long stick)  We wont see the carrot from that far o.o'

8. Constant focus of getting more subscribers.  If theyd stop focusing on subscribers and just make a polished and fungame, then the players will subscribe.

9. Know.Your.Target.Audience.  <- this.  APB was advertised as GTA online.  WAR,AOC, etc.  Those had all misleading descriptions.  Except AoC because hey...Wasnt it breasts they were pointing out?  But then again I read somewhere that breasts in AoC got nerfed.

10.  Less focus on gameplay and more focus on rewards. <- this is a big big problem I think.

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Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/07
Posts: 642

11/02/10 11:06:24 AM#35
Originally posted by Castillle

10.  Less focus on gameplay and more focus on rewards. <- this is a big big problem I think.

with #10 this is far underrated. i dont care, if i get a title after killing 50 wolves. if they would just implement skills and mobs in a way that i would have to use my brain to kill 1 wolve.

played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds


Novice Member

Joined: 10/31/10
Posts: 18

11/02/10 11:41:10 AM#36
Originally posted by astoria

Hubris - see, the classical greek metaphor of the person building a pair of wings, getting excited, flying too close to the sun, wings melting, and crashing.

That was Icarus. And it's not a metaphor, it's a myth.


Advanced Member

Joined: 8/23/05
Posts: 760

11/02/10 12:29:32 PM#37

Simply put, it's the time it takes to accomplish everything in a game. If it takes less than a month for a hardcore player you are in trouble. They will just play their free month, hit max lvl do some endgame and quit. This is why Lineage/Lineage2 were able to retain subscribers for so long and why Aion is still the 2nd top MMORPG to date. Because it takes longer to accomplish things and you are less likely to give it up. If you hit lvl 80 in Age of Conan it won't take long and you won't be so attached to your character, you are more likely to move on. Retaining playerbase is a huge problem.


Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/08
Posts: 1685

11/02/10 12:34:52 PM#38
Originally posted by Mixcoatl
Originally posted by astoria

Hubris - see, the classical greek metaphor of the person building a pair of wings, getting excited, flying too close to the sun, wings melting, and crashing.

That was Icarus. And it's not a metaphor, it's a myth.

Edit: Hubris = excessive confidence. Sorry thought that was a more common word.

"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga


Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/10
Posts: 19

11/02/10 12:39:56 PM#39

Games that have an in-game store that requires "gold" you can only get by paying real money!

Nuff said.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/06
Posts: 496

11/02/10 1:15:07 PM#40

Seems to me, that the companies spend too much time too early, making nice graphics and videos, and generally generating hype.

And that they spend too little time too late to work on concept and mechanics.

I'd rather play a game with stick figures and no textures at launch than I would want to play a 3D stress test that did nothing than make my computer run like crap 10 minutes after I quit the game.

And I would prefer that the mechanics worked at launch and that they were all there. With room to grow ofcourse if someone has a good idea.

And I dont mind that a game starts small and grows slowly at first. 


But I recon that we wont see that sort of patience from the big companies. Guess its up to some independants to do it in their own time for the first few years where they figure out the concepts and a basic engine. And then get investors and programmers and artists as they get ready to make a game client.

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