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10/20/10 1:58:57 AM#21
I quit for similar reasons. Summer of 09' I was playing around 5-8 hours a day because I wasn't in school and wasn't working. I did have a lot of fun in the game because the NA servers had just opened. I played that way for about a month and was already one of the highest in magic on my server. But I ended up having to move and decided I couldn't really play any longer as I needed to focus on other stuff. I haven't played Darkfall since then. But I've always thought that if there were 48 hours a day, I'd be happy to be a hardcore gamer.
Although sometimes I think the amount of time I spend surfing the internet or sleeping could be directed towards casually playing an mmo. But I just don't trust myself. :) |
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10/20/10 7:20:59 AM#22
Originally posted by SEANMCAD Bingo. Well said. The idea that someone who has more time to invest into an activity making more progress than someone with less time being "unfair" has never made sense to me. But that seems to be the mantra of many MMO gamers these days. There are people who (again, framing themself as a "poor, helpless victim" to make their case) refer to it as "being punished for not having as much time as other players". And again, there's the other mentality I don't understand: valuing their progress entirely by that of others, rather than their own. It's such a self-defeating attitude, "I put 10 hours in a week, but dammit that person has 20 hours a week and is progressing twice as fast, and I feel like I'm getting nowhere! That's not fair!" Ummm... no, they're not being punished. Their life circumstances simply aren't the same as someone else's. The more reasonable and, indeed, mature conclusion to come to is "I don't have as much time to make the progress I'd like to in this game. So, do I adjust my expectations, do what I can and enjoy the experience? Or, do I decide this is simply not a game that caters well to my personal circumstances, and move on to something else that does?" Considering how many people expect a game to cater specifically to what *they* want or it "fails"... it's no surprise such a mindset isn't more common. And this behavior plays out for all MMOs, PvP or otherwise... It's not just Darkfall. |
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10/20/10 7:49:49 AM#23
Originally posted by WSIMike Good post but i disagree on rare occasions it is indeed a FAIL
I had recently been trying out Fallen Earth whilst i had a weeks holiday and have to say I had thoroughly enjoyed the trial however it is just a little too time demanding with a missus 2 kids under 4 year old and work, Do i call it a fail game no i will advise anyone who asks that it is a excellent game just a little too time demanding if all you can spare is 2 hours a day it is simply not for you but by all means give it a go.
There are games out there though who do get it horribly wrong though and they are generally PVP based.
Aion as a example is a fantastic journey 1-55 IMO but the end game PVP reliance on gear is what I deem a FAIL design decision a lot of people simply can't or won't invest 6 months post level cap to get equipemtn just to compete that for me is a faliure in design that equipement is so important to a PVP game rather than just being a small perk. |
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10/20/10 10:04:35 AM#24
Originally posted by thamighty213 The thing is this, you can take something as simple as thumb wrestling and chances are the people who can devote more time to playing will be better at it. So its really not possible to dumb down a game to a level where time spent on it doesnt represent how good you are at and not to mention even if you could then the game really wouldnt represent skill in the first place becuase skill requires practice, its not some god given gift. There are a lot of things I would love to be great at doing but I cant becuase I have to make money and pay my bills, that is just a reality of life. does your game have rainbow sprinkles and magic ponies!? |
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10/20/10 11:53:04 AM#25
Sorry guys I hate the way you are trying to compare this to people that play sports/pool etc. There is a major difference. If I play pool and I am not going to walk into a masters competition and expect to win or even get in. Those guys are not going to walk into a bar and wipe the floor with people either. Ringer anyone remember what happens to them? Everyone here knows that if I am in a game for entertainment it is not fun to have someone that is way out class own you. If it happened in real life you would not go to that pool hall/bar again. In a game you dont have that option except to stop playing it. |
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10/20/10 12:09:55 PM#26
Originally posted by furidiam I disagree. Pool is a game and its for fun, some people play it seriously, some do not and some can not. I like pool but I dont walk into a pool hall thinking I should be able to compete with people who basically live there, but I still like pool and play pool. its EXACTLY the same think in DF.
For me, I like DF but I am realistic in understanding that I can not compete with the people who are there every night, but I still have fun. does your game have rainbow sprinkles and magic ponies!? |
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10/20/10 12:24:22 PM#27
But when you walk into the pool hall the best guy in the place isnt going to pick you out to play against. In DF you have no way of not playing against the best people, In sports and pool you do. P.S. just wanted to add that there is no "penalty" for losing in pool/sports. Where in DF you lose your stuff:) |
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10/20/10 12:39:40 PM#28
Originally posted by furidiam do you want to compete or do you just not want to get ganked? becuase they are very different things. My impression is that people want to compete. that is very different then just trying to not get ganked. Its important to seperate the two, it can cause much confusion if you dont. does your game have rainbow sprinkles and magic ponies!? |
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10/20/10 12:50:41 PM#29
I think its a double edged sword. I don't personally mind losing a fight, but in the same sense I don't like to fight someone and get steam rolled. This has allways been a issue in DF. The gap between vets and newer players. If you play against someone in pool and you lose but it was a good game you had fun. If you play 1 person and he clears the table without you hitting the ball even once it was not fun. I played against many people in DF that beat the crap out of me without me being able to fight back. That was not fun. I also had fights where i took people down 30% of there life and felt that it was a fun fight because it wasnt whack whack dead. I think the main issue with DF is how long a fight lasts. Advanced fights are normally going until someone runs out of stamina. Mid lvl fights are normally the same. Mid lvl vs advanced is 15 seconds later the mid lvl is dead. This is true vs mid lvl vs newb. Another issue with the game is how 4-5 mid lvl players cant beat 1 vet. I was a adviser in NEW and 4-5 of us would fight someone like dremlock and we would get owned. I think that is a game mechanic flaw. |
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10/20/10 12:57:57 PM#30
Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Fair enough, and it`s sad AV couldn`t make the game playable for normal casual pvpers. I can play 5 hours a day, but I stopped playing active due to lack of players. I could dig up my post from the first months of DF and it would still be valid today. -The travel grind got better with the portal chambers, but still travel is a pain. -The level grind is immence like always -The gear grind is huge.
100000 players came to Darkfall for a full loot competitive pvp mmo, and they were met with a PVE grind that rivals Linage 2. We didn`t lose 97% of our player base for no reason. :)
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10/20/10 1:24:56 PM#31
Originally posted by Hotjazz it greatly depends on your objective. One poster was using the word 'competive' and 'not get ganked' basically as the same and its not. When you say you want to be 'competive' you are saying your goal is to be as good as top players, if simply not getting ganked is the problem people should know that in the long run you always bring in more than you lose. I know a player who is crazy rich, been playing for a long time and has a personal policy of zero, i mean zero pvp fight backs. If he gets attacked he just stands there, yet he is still able over the long haul to make tons of money playing the pve. I would think the same can be true playing combo pve and pvp.
there are plenty of average toon skilled players you can 'compete' aganist, you dont have to be top player to be 'competitive' that is just being a baby to be frank. does your game have rainbow sprinkles and magic ponies!? |
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10/20/10 6:28:19 PM#32
Originally posted by SEANMCAD What it seems some people want - though they'll deny it 'til they're blue in the face all the while feigning righteous indignation and outrage when someone says it - is Unreal Tournament style gameplay in a MMO setting. Everyone starts on even ground, no one's ever "too much farther ahead that you can't still beat them". Except that it will *still* be the case. There are still people who are going to kick your ass in pure DeathMatch style gameplay... Why? Wait for it... Wait for it... Because they have put more time into playing, practicing and improving their skills, or are simply better players. When that happens... well... I suppose there will be players complaining that the developers need to handicap the more skilled players when fighting less skilled ones because it's "unfair to the less skilled player that they haven't had as much experience with FPS games". They'll complain that "the game is punishing less skilled players for not playing as much as others have". All because some people can't seem to handle the concept that, yes, there are going to be players with more time to play, and thus more advanced and more powerful characters than them; and that, yes, in a fight, the more experienced and developed character is probably going to beat them. The whole underlying premise of this whole "being competitive with "veteran players" who've been playing longer in a fraction of the time it took the vets to get there" is completely disingenous and entirely ridiculous. These people are putting forth the same exact complaint WoW players do: "Make leveling faster so we can get to end-game more quickly". That's all it boils down to. And just like with WoW, no matter how much the leveling curve is reduced, it will never be low enough. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to read between the lines and see what some people are really looking for. And if we're not quite at that point yet, given enough time... we will be. Ugh... sorry for the rant. Just seeing people dancing around the core issue here without actually coming out and *saying* it is getting long in the tooth. |
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10/20/10 8:19:03 PM#33
Well I do not have a competitive issue. I would say it does not even seem like you are putting up a fight. I have literally had fights where the vet is naked and using a starter weapon and he is doing the same amount of dps as a 3 month old char equiped with r50's. When someone like Pink Taco can go into hamlets in a robe and a r40 polearm and kill 10-15 people something is wrong with the mechanics. |
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10/20/10 9:31:19 PM#34
I left as well OP. I had the exact same reaction when I left as well...no hard feelings. I really, really liked the game. I may at some point come back. I found the UI was a bit clunky, but so is EVE's until you figure out what works. I found my ping fairly competitive. I guess my biggest problem was...I just wasn't that good. I really enjoyed fighting along side my clanmates. Hunting enemies, group PVE, whatever was great. I guess I just wasn't that good with all the jumping around like jack rabbits part. I also found that during sieges, it was damn near useless for me once I got inside an enemies city because the lag was so bad, it was like watching a slideshow. EvE's lag in big fleet battles can be like too, it's part of it. I guess I would just be happier if they slowed it down a touch, or at least double/tripled the stam for all the damn jumping around. As much as I loved it, watching vids of it on YouTube makes me laugh at how ridiculous it looks. I liked it, but it just wasn't for me in the end I guess. Sorry to see ya leave OP, the game needs players. Playing: BF3, Prototype and Skyrim |
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10/21/10 3:19:56 AM#35
Originally posted by WSIMike
Sigh... Don't decry one group of people's stereotypical responses to a subject, then spout the stereotypical nonsense of another group. I still find the irony of the guys they're using for their points hilarious. I mean 'roid freaks ftw to represent cheaters and the absurd power gap. The practice argument has been done to death, but it always ignores the fact that the actual 'player skill' part of the combat isn't exactly exclusive to this game. Pretty sure that when I played, my experience from FPS and TPS games I've played made becoming effecient in aiming and movement come pretty natural and easy. Spells just reminded me of the good, old-fashioned lag-dot from TFC sniping. Add to that the fact that it doesn't take an eternity to learn the game's skills and their effects (a determined noob can pick up on that fairly fast) and that part nearly becomes a non-issue.
That aside, I've already explained why an adjusted system would still give hardcore players the advantage in this thread. To add to that, losing stuff when you die is part of the game. Obviously, your more established long-term and hardcore players will be able to ignore that issue by and large, and will be able to use better armor/weapons with less fear of losing them. That's a pretty solid advantage in itself. Originally posted by WSIMike Covered in the link above; I'm complaining about the eventual pointlessness of noob slaughter in a populationally-challenged Darkfall, largely due to the imbalance combined with the grind, with emphasis on PVP as a motivating factor and overall focus of the game's systems.
And it's not that folks can't handle that others will wipe the floor with their hair, while still attached to their skull and spine (sure, some folks bail because they can't handle it, but they picked the wrong game to start - it's FFA PVP). It's that they're going to be pummeled repetitively by higher-end folks who're bored with the grind and looking for a fight while they struggle their way through the absolutely obscene grind which loses its novelty after a few thousand goblins while meanwhile they dream of actually getting to what they purchased the game for; competitive PVP in an MMO setting. Otherwise, the "content" quickly dries up and there's little motivation for really pushing forward. Originally posted by WSIMike Eh, some folks might wish they could log in and pick and choose from everything without work, but I think most are sensible enough. Personally, I'd much rather see a completely new server - as I've said elsewhere - in combination with major adjustments so that everyone who starts new will be equal in the sense that they'll all accomplish things within the same frame of time. For a totally poor example with 100% made-up numbers; 100 hours played time to hit 325hp no matter who you are in the current system. Hardcore have a huge advantage here and the bigger the effect of stats/skills combined with a longer time required to get them exacerbates the issue. Knock that time down to 35-40 hours while making more time investment continue to give increases at a much slower rate and suddenly the more casual can feel they're hitting a milestone for becoming competitive (more level field) while still giving the vets/hardcores a minor advantage.
Also, it's not disingenuous at all. Comparing people who wish to be competitive in a PVP game to people wishing to race to max level in WoW is an absolutely horrifying example. In WoW, there's level-matched content throughout the game, from dungeons to PVP battlegrounds. Darkfall is full-on FFA PVP with practically no consequence for PKs and a massive power difference to time played ratio. I know you have said to "agree to disagree", but I'm going to throw out an MMORPG.com favorite and say; "you just don't get it." Your approach to the game and experience thus far is the result of a poor population and an empty world with a sandboxy feel, some great combat mechanics coupled with decent mob AI, and a completely different game than most out there. Ignoring what people with more experience (in-game and following/reading about it) have to say, as well as choosing your own view of the game (which even you admit is not popular) all while calling those same people disingenuous and basically saying they're the ones that are wrong is the disingenuous part here. The folks who want change for Darkfall are the ones who have legitimate backup for their reasons. The "you're doing it wrong" argument is just poor. Poor as dirt. Flip that around and realize that maybe you're the one doing it wrong and see what a minority you're in. Then, tell me why you're so down on people who want something different and better for the game. Oh yeah - it's your game now because you like it the way it already is. Yup, it's best AV continue that path. It's been so successful for them so far....
Sorry for the rant, btw. I guess I'm just a bit fed up with people who think a game suddenly becomes their possession as soon as they figure out they like it while campaigning to keep it that way, even if the honeymoon phase will go *poof* in short time, leaving the game in its still poor state while meanwhile selfishly ignoring the majority. "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
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10/21/10 3:40:56 AM#36
Considering they are reporting growth and are expanding it is succesful enough for them to continue to invest in it. You have to remember this was done by a small company not blizzard or some other triple A gaming company with pockets as deap the grand canyon. It's not meant to cater to everyone and they know that. If it was they wouldn't have gone for seemless world, open pvp, and have sand box elements. Sure it doesn't have hundreds of thousands of subscribers but it's steadily improving and they are even already speculating a DF2. Just because it's a failure in many gamers minds doesn't mean it is because from business stand point they seem to be doing fine... |
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10/21/10 8:26:28 AM#37
Which is what makes many of the "I quit" posts from the defenders I've seen so disingenuous, including this one.
If they really still loved this game and it was so brilliant and great and all as they keep trying to tell us then why are they quitting?, apparently the only reason is they don't have enough time to play it anymore.
Yet they seemed to have plenty of time to play it right up until they quit, not to mention they had amble time to defend and promote it for years prior and after launch, sounds like they had plenty of time on their hands before they decided to quit to me.
Sorry don't buy it, after blaming everyone else except the developers the only person left to blame for this games failure is themselves and their lack of time to play it, because apparently there is nothing wrong with the game apart from their lack of time to actually play it.
According to this games long term promoters (many of which have quit or strangely vanished) Darkfall is the best game ever that's only getting better, that nobody plays because they don't have time, sounds like complete rubbish.
The crazy thing is the ones left playing this game probably actually welcome this "thinning of the fat" so they can feel even more elitist and superior about how hardcore they are along with the few other hundred others currently logged on during peak time.
Seriously if you enjoy or did enjoy this game then that's fine, I'm sure it has some redeeming quality's but don't make I quit posts saying how much you love the game and how awesome it is then lie and say but I can't play it because I don't have time, if it was really that good you would make time even if it was only a few hours on the weekend like everybody else.
You've stopped playing it for the same reasons the majority of everyone who's tried it does not play it, the tremendous time commitment to tedious repetitive tasks for the first few months ( AKA the grind ) to become and remain competitive is only one of many issues this game has that will doom it to its current position of obscure mediocrity indefinitely or worse.
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10/21/10 11:16:45 AM#38
I dont know why people get so defensive when folks suggest a quake style MMO. there is nothing insuluting about the idea itself. I enjoy playing FPS games and I think it would be great to have an MMO size world for people to run around and shoot each other in. I would even play such a game, just not long term. Why is it such a bad idea in the first place that has to be brought down? does your game have rainbow sprinkles and magic ponies!? |
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10/21/10 11:21:03 AM#39
Originally posted by Polarization Huh? O.o "Mom, I play Tera for the gameplay I swear!!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2paFdRw_U |
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10/21/10 11:23:07 AM#40
Originally posted by Ethian At least it's mildly entertaining. "My fighting style is kneeing people's face" -Wanderlei Silva |
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