Here is my take.  As a Fire Mage I took a few points in both frost (frost burn) and arcane (I did use arcane bolt some).  Some of those points I spent prior to maxing fire, heck, prior to hitting 70.  Now if I wanted to spend in a similar way (yes, much of those bonuses are internal not purchased) I have to wait till at least level 71 to do so.  Was I hybrid? No.  Was it fun? Yes.  Any good PvE? Sure, most of my running was solo.  Any good PvP? I am a mage, I die a lot.  But I also got some nice kills.

My main complaint is that I no longer have the option of "waisting" a few points in arcane/frost until I hit the end game.  It sort of feels like my choices are being made for me.  My support is that, like others, I no longer have to burn points in weak bonuses just to get to the stuff I really want.

Until I play it some I have to give this change a 5.7 out of 10.  Could be better but could also be a lot worse.

Originally posted by Rockgod99
While Im no longer a WoW player I applaud blizzard for taking the game back to it's roots. Bringing back the need to learn your class, challenging pve content that requires CC, solid tanking and threat management to complete. Bravo!

Actually.....this right here ^^^^^  .....ALMOST makes me want to play WoW again.  I'm smelling a little scent of.....vanilla.

Originally posted by Kriosis

They do modify the trees often, but never like this. The new trees are far better then what we've had. I play rogue, finding a talent I don't like is kinda difficult with what they currently have shown. Playing a rogue today I'm having to take less then stellar talents to reach my point goal. Actually, playing an assassination rogue for PvP you only go 44 points assassination, skipping your 51 talent ability and the 5 point tier above it. Now it seems much better, I'm finding myself putting points in everything I could find useful for PvP situations and not having to take something that leaned more towards PvE just becase it was the less crappy option to reach the next tier of talent points.

That used to BUG THE HELL OUTTA ME.  It seemed like a constant WASTE of points.

Seriously....all this "news" about changes is intriguing me......

As a ret paldin, I like the new changes. It does remind me of Vanilla WoW....I cant solo like I used to, and my AoE may suffer drastically, but im hell on wheels vs a single target. And I am not afraid of change!

Seriously though, people are just scared of change and it's too hard for them now since they have ot control thier aggro and tank properly. Easy mode is on its way out, which I love.

Originally posted by Archeminos

As a ret paldin, I like the new changes. It does remind me of Vanilla WoW....I cant solo like I used to, and my AoE may suffer drastically, but im hell on wheels vs a single target. And I am not afraid of change!

Seriously though, people are just scared of change and it's too hard for them now since they have ot control thier aggro and tank properly. Easy mode is on its way out, which I love.

Not my particular gripe as I played a ranger in EQ. Soloing a single mob for ten minutes who can one shot me was hard. Having to raid with 70 to 140 players for 6 to 16 hours straight using just chat because ventrillo or team speak wasn't invented yet while on dial-up was hard.  

WoW has never, and will never be that hard.  If Wow was Mega Man, EQ of 6-7 years ago would have been Ninja Gaiden.

I'm fine with about 60% of the update

My gripes are: 

dye casting a player into a particular spec with no hybridization

eleminating viable alternative play(meaning choices like hybrids or play styles, gear set ups)

making any choices in the talent tree not really matter (you can't screw up too damn bad if once you put in your 31 points you could only put in 5 more to max out the tree as a hunter)

I cry for my hunter, while my DK changes make me sad since I had a dps blood spec, and a tank blood spec(people knocked it, but I did great tanking), and my mage is more powerful than ever(so gunna get nerfed).

Ok.

I waited a day to post my opinion and ... played it on the live servers now for 6 hours.

I won't ditch my healing paladin anymore. It is simply better than I feared.

I didn't need to copy my talents from "tha holy champ" on the armory (since the armory was off line :)) )

I had to find out  all again all by myself (and being the dumbed down player spoiled by a dumb game).

And I succeeded --- proud now ! :)

So in the end: I need to push far more keys and have a much greater variety in healing spells that actually have meaningful procs and build ups.

And even the new interface lets me throw healbot out of the window.

Of course I am just another humble player.

But I find it interesting that the moment people have to learn to play from scratch for ... one day, they become crazy.

Yes indeed, Blizzard spoiled us in the past. Time to relearn to play.

Oh ... and I just beat a one on one rogue with a Holy Paladin in wsg. That must have been ages ago.

Originally posted by Archeminos

As a ret paldin, I like the new changes. It does remind me of Vanilla WoW....I cant solo like I used to, and my AoE may suffer drastically, but im hell on wheels vs a single target. And I am not afraid of change!

Seriously though, people are just scared of change and it's too hard for them now since they have ot control thier aggro and tank properly. Easy mode is on its way out, which I love.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 I give it 7.0 on gameplay it did some good things but not for Hunters. The steady shot thing is a disaster. Paladins and DKs are not so faceroll however spell DPS is even more ungodly than I remember. Holy Paladins and Mages are going to be a steady source of nightmares. Players need more options on the talent trees otherwise there is really no point in selecting talents is there?

Originally posted by maji

In a game with changes, there is always hope that sooner or later they turn to the better. And it's always fun to try out new stuff anyway. In games without any significant changes, only one is guaranteed: boredom.

I agree, the new talent trees are really tiny. On the other hand: in the end, there is only one optimal spec for each purpose. And in that moment, any thought of free choice is an illusion.

 Exactly...and you get your special talent tree ability faster so they had to limit the access.

Sometimes less is more and all Blizzard did was take out the useless talents and make the trees better. A talent tree filled with useful talents is better than  a talent tree fill with half useless talents. Quality > quantity.

Wow classic was the best imo (I hate the coined term vanilla)....The more blizzard expanded the classes the more difficulty they had juggling the balance between all the classes. By the time they introduced arena, it became there bone of contention. As it was always a more driven pve game - initially only the insane would go for high ranked pvp gear.

If blizzard can even touch on some of the old magic the game once had before it opted for easy instant gratification in order to take in large profits, then some of the new gamers who came post burning crusade and lich king are in for a real treat. 

They need to make people appreciate blue items again and make epics something that required skill rather than time. Before people flame the remark that wow doesn't require skill, I disagree and refused to interject why, I do understand all of this requires people caring about what I have to say :)! 

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Sometimes less is more and all Blizzard did was take out the useless talents and make the trees better. A talent tree filled with useful talents is better than  a talent tree fill with half useless talents. Quality > quantity.

 sorry to quote you, but this is the most heard response. I think it is somehow a good response, however it entirely removes the uniqueness of the character. Back with vanilla wow, you had several different builds for a holy priest. Most people had picked a build that matched their playstyle. Ofc priest that went shadow, were frowned upon. Something that was fixed in TBC.

Imo the new expansion is totally focussing on only 3 true builds for priests. No more hybrids, no more specialized builds, no more uniqueness. Also I'm very afraid this will not only apply on builds. People all will have the same gear, the same enchants, etc. Every priest will be identical to the priest with the same tree. Every priest can be replaced with another player. Catalysm is removing the uniqueness of a character and that makes me a little sad.

Originally posted by Khealler

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Sometimes less is more and all Blizzard did was take out the useless talents and make the trees better. A talent tree filled with useful talents is better than  a talent tree fill with half useless talents. Quality > quantity.

 sorry to quote you, but this is the most heard response. I think it is somehow a good response, however it entirely removes the uniqueness of the character. Back with vanilla wow, you had several different builds for a holy priest. Most people had picked a build that matched their playstyle. Ofc priest that went shadow, were frowned upon. Something that was fixed in TBC.

Imo the new expansion is totally focussing on only 3 true builds for priests. No more hybrids, no more specialized builds, no more uniqueness. Also I'm very afraid this will not only apply on builds. People all will have the same gear, the same enchants, etc. Every priest will be identical to the priest with the same tree. Every priest can be replaced with another player. Catalysm is removing the uniqueness of a character and that makes me a little sad.

 What makes your character unique is how well you play no matter what spec you are.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

 What makes your character unique is how well you play no matter what spec you are.

I disagree, certain playstyles were only possible because of the ability to hybridize. No amount of skill will bring that back. 

I personally use to have a very hybrid hunter back when traps were important. The mix of marks and survival allowed me to be a master traper, while keeping my dps real high. I can't do that anymore. I mean I can still trap like a champ, but you won't see me able to do the things I use to do. I use to be able to CC two to three mobs and make it look easy without frost trap kiting, but I currently can't because I need 5 more points or the ability to hybridize to do it. I could do do two, for a 45 seconds to a minute, if I don't get resisted. I will grant under particular situations I could still do three, but they have to be melee, and I gotta have a lot of runnin room for frost trap kiting. With my old hybrid build I could do a grade CCing, while still getting first rank dps on bosses. Now I have to choose one or the other.

Gear =\= skill, so don't even go there.

Originally posted by Onimor

Wow classic was the best imo (I hate the coined term vanilla)....The more blizzard expanded the classes the more difficulty they had juggling the balance between all the classes. By the time they introduced arena, it became there bone of contention. As it was always a more driven pve game - initially only the insane would go for high ranked pvp gear.

If blizzard can even touch on some of the old magic the game once had before it opted for easy instant gratification in order to take in large profits, then some of the new gamers who came post burning crusade and lich king are in for a real treat. 

They need to make people appreciate blue items again and make epics something that required skill rather than time. Before people flame the remark that wow doesn't require skill, I disagree and refused to interject why, I do understand all of this requires people caring about what I have to say :)! 

There definitely is a certain element of skill involved.

More knowing how to play your class, positioning, threat management, ability stacking/timing, good communication etc, but it can be the difference between a poor player and a good one all other things being equal.

These talent trees are much much better. The new talents make me feel like there are now 3 classes in every class. Before I never got that feeling cause you where just choosing the talents in the other tree to make your main tree optimal. Now with passives you dont need that. Overall its much more fun for everyone level10 and up. I love my new talent tree, there is still choice because I couldnt grab everything I wanted too which is good! Shows now you want to have all the talents instead of your old cookie cutter build. New talent system is better and more fun. 

If you dont like it at the moment or cant get your head around it, take a chill pill and come back later.

Originally posted by Daitengu

Originally posted by SaintViktor

 What makes your character unique is how well you play no matter what spec you are.

I disagree, certain playstyles were only possible because of the ability to hybridize. No amount of skill will bring that back. 

I personally use to have a very hybrid hunter back when traps were important. The mix of marks and survival allowed me to be a master traper, while keeping my dps real high. I can't do that anymore. I mean I can still trap like a champ, but you won't see me able to do the things I use to do. I use to be able to CC two to three mobs and make it look easy without frost trap kiting, but I currently can't because I need 5 more points or the ability to hybridize to do it. I could do do two, for a 45 seconds to a minute, if I don't get resisted. I will grant under particular situations I could still do three, but they have to be melee, and I gotta have a lot of runnin room for frost trap kiting. With my old hybrid build I could do a grade CCing, while still getting first rank dps on bosses. Now I have to choose one or the other.

 

Gear =\= skill, so don't even go there.

 Anyone worth their salt in any class had a hybrid somewhere and 9 times out of ten had 15+ points in another tree.