Originally posted by blueturtle13

 As he mentioned as his opinion you mean. I think Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 stories are silly and clumsy. Basic at best. Contrived for sure. High quality is attributed to what your opinion? or Biowares budget? Why should we not hold the writing in as high regard as we (I do anyways) do a novel? or a film? Art is art. And to say that Mass Effect is just as good or draws a sharper character over Asimov's? your insane. Asimov, Arthur Clarke and Robert H were the BIG three of the day. Noone else disputes that why would you? Opinion is opinion but come on.

(snips)

Just pretty good for his time I guess though lol    crazy

I'm not disputing at all that they were the big three of their times. But come on, if you think Asimov was that good as a writer  compared to a lot of those scifi writers that came in later decennia, then you haven't read that much science fiction. I mean, have you even read all Asimov's Robot books and his later Foundation books? I can recommend Frank Herbert's Dune, Dan Simmons, William Gibson, Joe Haldeman, Philip K Dick, Alastair Reynolds, Orson Scott Card and Greg Bear to read for comparison, and that's for starters.

I've read an enormous amount of scifi and fantasy books, and reviewed quite a number of them, and yes, I found the story and plotlines and the character exposition to be solid in Mass Effect 1 and 2, even more solid and consistent than in a lot of science fiction novels, especially considering the limitations of its medium that it's subject to. And that's my opinion. Yours is to disbelieve that BW games have good story, and that's fine. Opinions are subjective and tastes differ, after all.

Mass Effect series has been fun to play. It also a series that has gained critical acclaim.

Of course you are free to compare a space opera written for a computer game to some of the best sci-fi classics, but it is not really a fair comparison. Mass Effect does contain many sci-fi cliches and a generic story, especially, if you are more familiar with better works in the genre (not many read these days), like Frank Herbert's Dune or Asimov's Foundation (I have read most Asimov's sci-fi stories and yes he is still regarded very highly). Those guys that were listed in the previous post have in fact come up with stories that many avid readers now consider cliches. However, that does not mean that, as an interactive storytelling medium, Bioware has not done a bang-up job with Mass Effect.

But I would not really call it sci-fi, more like science fantasy. By using the rought definition for it:

"science fiction makes the implausible possible, while science fantasy makes the impossible plausible."

In fact, it is not even trying to be too serius sci-fi, but more like what Star Wars is to Blade Runner. Both types of sci-fi or sci-fa are fine by me.

Originally posted by thexrated

However, that does not mean that, as an interactive storytelling medium, Bioware has not done a bang-up job with Mass Effect.

But I would not really call it sci-fi, more like science fantasy. By using the rought definition for it:

"science fiction makes the implausible possible, while science fantasy makes the impossible plausible."

In fact, it is not even trying to be too serius sci-fi, but more like what Star Wars is to Blade Runner. Both types of sci-fi or sci-fa are fine by me.

Hmmm, I'd classify it far less as science fantasy and more as space opera, as in this definition.

Space opera is a subgenre of speculative fiction or science fiction that emphasizes romantic, often melodramatic adventure, set mainly or entirely in outer space, generally involving conflict between opponents possessing advanced technologies and abilities.  Perhaps the most significant trait of space opera is that settings, characters, battles, powers, and themes tend to be very large-scale.

But that's a matter of opinion.

Anyway, enough derailment to a side topic from my side, this is as far as I take it

Originally posted by cyphers

Originally posted by blueturtle13

 As he mentioned as his opinion you mean. I think Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 stories are silly and clumsy. Basic at best. Contrived for sure. High quality is attributed to what your opinion? or Biowares budget? Why should we not hold the writing in as high regard as we (I do anyways) do a novel? or a film? Art is art. And to say that Mass Effect is just as good or draws a sharper character over Asimov's? your insane. Asimov, Arthur Clarke and Robert H were the BIG three of the day. Noone else disputes that why would you? Opinion is opinion but come on.

(snips)

Just pretty good for his time I guess though lol    crazy

I'm not disputing at all that they were the big three of their times. But come on, if you think Asimov was that good as a writer  compared to a lot of those scifi writers that came in later decennia, then you haven't read that much science fiction. I mean, have you even read all Asimov's Robot books and his later Foundation books? I can recommend Frank Herbert's Dune, Dan Simmons, William Gibson, Joe Haldeman, Philip K Dick, Alastair Reynolds, Orson Scott Card and Greg Bear to read for comparison, and that's for starters.

 

I've read an enormous amount of scifi and fantasy books, and reviewed quite a number of them, and yes, I found the story and plotlines and the character exposition to be solid in Mass Effect 1 and 2, even more solid and consistent than in a lot of science fiction novels, especially considering the limitations of its medium that it's subject to. And that's my opinion. Yours is to disbelieve that BW games have good story, and that's fine. Opinions are subjective and tastes differ, after all.

 I have read all of Frank Herberts works thank you. But Bioware is NOT one of the great Sci-Fi story creators of all time! I think you disqualify your opinion on Sci-Fi if you say that. And you did. Check this out ;) lol Sci-Fi lol too funny you would say all that. I mean Bioware Im sure would never say that or think it. lol silly.

http://gza.gameriot.com/content/images/orig_320200_1_1257581825.png

Originally posted by Dancuk

Ok swtor is gonna have a great storyline...cant wait!! but heres the thing stories have an ending and im guessing the story aint gonna last more than a month..maybe 2, what the hell...6 months max?.  So my question is after the story has ended, are you still wiliing to keep paying the subscription for a game with no story left..?

 

[Mod Edit]

people already pay subscriptions for games with practically no story or don't realize the game even has a story. I don't suspect this will be an issue.

Originally posted by blueturtle13

 I have read all of Frank Herberts works thank you. But Bioware is NOT one of the great Sci-Fi story creators of all time! I think you disqualify your opinion on Sci-Fi if you say that. And you did. Check this out ;) lol Sci-Fi lol too funny you would say all that. I mean Bioware Im sure would never say that or think it. lol silly.

http://gza.gameriot.com/content/images/orig_320200_1_1257581825.png

You use 'lol' too much, that disqualifies you as being a mature poster. Lol, just kidding

You've read Frank Herbert, nice, but did you also read the others on the list I mentioned, and the other great scifi works, let's say the top 100 scifi works of all time for starters? And nice link, congratulations! You've discovered one of the great mysteries of our time, namely how similar most of the tales in their core theme and story are. Now go look up most of the fantasy books and scifi books in the store for fun and see if you can use that knowledge to compare the series in epic fantasy for example, or space opera. While you're at it, you might want to find out about memes, tropes and archetypes. And also take a look at the plot and story in most of the games that have come out. It's fun, I promise

Anyway, you think BW's storytelling sucks, I think they're doing great especially within the limitations of its medium. So I'm going to agree to disagree, this discussion has been strayed away from the OP topic far enough.

I'm still on the fence if I'll like this game or not. I have a few MMOs that lacked any real story at all a try and that wasn't enjoyable. I suppose I like a bit of atmosphere to exist. I've enjoyed BioWare games in the past; some I dare say more for their story and the mechanics.

Still I think for a MMORPG now-a-days you have to be able to bring both to the table. Mix good mechanics and playablity with a story and find a niche to bend things in the name of innovation.

I'll be surprised if they keep me for more than 1 character play through, but I'm open to the idea.

Originally posted by blueturtle13

Originally posted by cyphers

Originally posted by blueturtle13

 Did you just put Mass Effects writers on par with Asimov? wow. Just wow.

Sorry if I offended any fragile love and adoration you might have for Asimov's works, but he wasn't that great a scifi writer compared to other scifi authors. For his time he was pretty good, just as was the Foundation series, and that's as far as it goes; there are a lot equally good and better scifi series to be found of the past 6-7 decennia.

 

As Fdzzaigl mentions, the Mass Effect series is of high quality space opera, especially considering the limitations of the medium in which the stories are being told.

 As he mentioned as his opinion you mean. I think Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 stories are silly and clumsy. Basic at best. Contrived for sure. High quality is attributed to what your opinion? or Biowares budget? Why should we not hold the writing in as high regard as we (I do anyways) do a novel? or a film? Art is art. And to say that Mass Effect is just as good or draws a sharper character over Asimov's? your insane. Asimov, Arthur Clarke and Robert H were the BIG three of the day. Noone else disputes that why would you? Opinion is opinion but come on.

Awards

• 1957 – Thomas Alva Edison Foundation Award, for Building Blocks of the Universe
• 1960 – Howard W. Blakeslee Award from the American Heart Association for The Living River
• 1962 – Boston University's Publication Merit Award
• 1963 – special Hugo Award for "adding science to science fiction" for essays published in the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction
• 1965 – James T. Grady Award of the American Chemical Society (now called the James T. Grady-James H. Stack Award for Interpreting Chemistry)
• 1966 – Best All-time Novel Series Hugo Award for the Foundation series
• 1967 – Westinghouse Science Writing Award
• 1972 – Nebula Award for Best Novel for The Gods Themselves^[39]
• 1973 – Hugo Award for Best Novel for The Gods Themselves^[40]
• 1973 – Locus award for Best Science Fiction Novel for The Gods Themselves^[40]
• 1977 – Hugo Award for Best Novelette for The Bicentennial Man
• 1977 – Nebula Award for Best Novelette for The Bicentennial Man
• 1981 – An asteroid, 5020 Asimov, was named in his honor
• 1983 – Hugo Award for Best Novel for Foundation's Edge^[41]
• 1983 – Locus Award for Best Science Fiction Novel for Foundation's Edge^[41]
• 1987 – Nebula Grand Master award, a lifetime achievement award^[42]
• 1992 – Hugo Award for Best Novelette for Gold
• 1995 – Hugo Award for Best Nonfiction for I. Asimov: A Memoir
• 1996 – A 1946 Retro-Hugo for Best Novel of 1945 was given at the 1996 WorldCon to The Mule, the 7th Foundation story published in Astounding Science Fiction
• 1997 – Posthumous induction into the Science Fiction and Fantasy Hall of Fame
• 2009 – A crater on the planet Mars, Asimov,^[43] was named in his honor

• 14 honorary doctorate degrees from various universities

Just pretty good for his time I guess though lol    crazy

Did I miss something? He said he likes Mass Effect just as much as Asimov.  Great.  He said you like Asimov so much more. Cool.  He says that's your opinion.

Yet you come back and call him names and the like for his likes/dislikes.

I would venture that you are these names.  Opinions are just that.  Yours is not fact.  Sorry kiddo :\.

Nope not bothered by the story, it will be present yes and you will see it yes, but there are other things to do, like raids, pvp and all the other goodies that come with normal MMOs. Of course i'm taking all this from what the Dev/promotional people say, but thats all i can do at the moment without the game install on my computer and sub to see for myself.

But I did get to play a preview of it at Pax and i can say one thing. I've played alot of MMos since i've started about 9 or so years ago and this feels exactly like how the other MMos play, maps, abilities, inventory, quest npcs. other people, worlds, fighting, other people to play with, equipment, vendors, other people to play with, and your character, did i mention that you can play with other people?

Anyhow, i woudn't worry about the story getting in the way. yeah it's there, when you want to do it. But BW i think being a rather successful company might know how to make a good game, and hire people who know what goes into an MMO, so i wouldn't worry about the other aspects of MMOs being there, seeing as they are flat out stating these things will be in game.

So to the OP: i think the story will sorta result in a cliff hanger with you being let off the quest hook to oxplore the galaxy until we have need of you again sorta thing, which the expansions will be what makes these people call you back. Otherwise i'm sure theres plenty to do once the story is finished up so to speak.  I would take it like this. Take any MMO in existances that theme park. You have your main quest which continues till you get to max level, and you have side quests scattered about. Now take those quest. Make em interactive, put in VO and you got the basis of how ToR works. Those stories end and you got other stuff to do beyond that. Same here.

Originally posted by whilan

But I did get to play a preview of it at Pax and i can say one thing. I've played alot of MMos since i've started about 9 or so years ago and this feels exactly like how the other MMos play, maps, abilities, inventory, quest npcs. other people, worlds, fighting, other people to play with, equipment, vendors, other people to play with, and your character, did i mention that you can play with other people?

Ah Whilan, you played at PAX too?

Could you perhaps take a look at this thread, and see what you find of the impressions and demo experience those players had? Were your similar to theirs, or different in any way?

Oh, feel free to add your impressions to that thread as well if you have things to say about it that haven't been mentioned there yet.

The real question is how do you know the story will be great? Bioware being a good company had gotten lazy with their story creatng skills recently... Atleast IMHO.

And if the story isn't great whats left then?

Originally posted by dzikun

The real question is how do you know the story will be great?

And if the story isn't great whats left then?

What you do in other MMORPG's, questing, leveling, crafting, exploration, dungeons, raids, Warzones, or open world PvP.

In short, the same usual stuff in MMORPG's that have not much story to speak of.

Originally posted by Dancuk

Ok swtor is gonna have a great storyline...cant wait!! but heres the thing stories have an ending and im guessing the story aint gonna last more than a month..maybe 2, what the hell...6 months max?.  So my question is after the story has ended, are you still wiliing to keep paying the subscription for a game with no story left..?

It really depends on how the game is made. 

Besides, Guildwars had a story that ends and I played that a long time. I am not really even sure that I will play the game at all yet, it depends on how fun it will be to play.

But most MMOs actually have story even if the end of it usually takes a year of raiding to reach, I don't see a problem as long as there is enough content and the possibility to do other stuff.

As i didn't have much time i skimmd it and got the basis, i didn't post anything though as it would just be a reinteration of what was said in the Q and A, combat felt smooth, quests were interactive. NPCs hid, Pretty much my exact impression as well. I only had 15 mins though.  However i slipped right into it and enjoyed it, Wish i could have gotten a couple of hours to play, but i'm not important enough for that to happen ;P

Anyhow can't wait for the game, looking forward to it, Keep the article, as i'm sure people will question aspects of the game again, this is a good first hand impression of the game.  He likes certain aspects of the game and not others. The major thing i didn't l ike was how the enemies looked and that they seemed to have pathing issues sometimes (nothing a patch between now and then won't fix though), and even though the graphics may not be realistic, they somehow seem to fit rather nicely with the game.

Originally posted by Dancuk

Ok swtor is gonna have a great storyline...cant wait!! but heres the thing stories have an ending and im guessing the story aint gonna last more than a month..maybe 2, what the hell...6 months max?.  So my question is after the story has ended, are you still wiliing to keep paying the subscription for a game with no story left..?

 

[Mod Edit]

How can people be that concerned with the stroy ending? Each character you create will have a different story and the world will treat you different depending on how you interact with it. Thats not evening talking about the expansions. Lastly..if you beat the game in 6 monthes then you can just stop and play something else...it doesn't have to last forever to be good.

Originally posted by cyphers

Originally posted by dzikun

The real question is how do you know the story will be great?

And if the story isn't great whats left then?

What you do in other MMORPG's, questing, leveling, crafting, exploration, dungeons, raids, Warzones, or open world PvP.

In short, the same usual stuff in MMORPG's that have not much story to speak of.

 I think that is what he is saying though. The one thing that people always say about Bioware is their storytelling. Not many people genuinely think their storytelling is really that good though. It is just how that story is wrapped around the fun gameplay that make the story seem better than it is. Hell Advent Rising was a better story as was Bioshock or the Witcher compared to anything Bioware has done. And if you remove their (supposed) good story telling then what is left? a sci fi mmo? If it was NOT SW and NOT Bioware. The flamers would be in full force for not having an open world, not being a sandbox, not including true space combat and space flight. (instead of a tunnel shooter) Their game play has cracks. Cracks that wont be fllled with a sophomore storyline. We will see if it is any good. As it is yet to be released. But Biowares games have (in my opinion) not been very good in a long while. That hurts to say since they made my fav game of all time. But, I am calling it like I see it.

Personally I have enjoyed all of Bioware's recent games. Their stories are always great in my opinion. If their scores with game critics and overall popularity are any indication, it would seem I am not in the minority...

To each their own I guess.

The story better be good!  Unlike Gene Roddenbury, George Lucas is still alive and well.  So if the story isn't good, you better believe heads will roll.  I suspect that's why STO failed so miserably, because poor Gene was not alive to keep and eye on his now banalized IP.  Sad, so sad :(

Originally posted by Anubisan

Personally I have enjoyed all of Bioware's recent games. Their stories are always great in my opinion. If their scores with game critics and overall popularity are any indication, it would seem I am not in the minority...

To each their own I guess.

 Critic scores mean nothing. Neither do sales. All their games sell to the same fans and the critics glow over some developers more than others. It is cut scene copy paste game play. over wrought, angst and anxiety is the outline for all their stories and their worlds are not the least bit immersive. The longer they are with EA the more homogenized their games become.

Buy game.

Use free 30 days to complete story.

Cancel sub.

Wait for expansion called KotOR 4.

Buy expansion.

Play through additional story.

Cancel sub.

Rinse and repeat.