Is the day I stop paying $15 per month to play them.

I keep seeing posts about how FFXIV is "unfinished".

The best part about MMORPGs is they are always changing. Always adapting. Always improving. Just because FFXIV is "released" now, well that just means we can start playing.

The most important thing is to have a good company, with a good reputation, and a strong foundation to build upon. FFXIV has all of these things.

If you want to "wait" until the game is finished, you will be waiting a very long time. Me? I prefer to play now, start to experience the game before everyone else does, and establish my place in Eorzea.

I'll gladly level another job with all of the people who wait though! There will be a spot in Eorzea for you in a few months when you are ready.

Most eloquently stated!

*gives Jimmy a cookie*

I concur. 

but...

This thread will go nowhere without proper FFXIV hate.

Think you are misunderstanding what people mean by "unfinished", when referring to FF XIV.  All SE have done is spent years developing graphics and forgot to make a game.

Originally posted by grapevine

Think you are misunderstanding what people mean by "unfinished", when referring to FF XIV.  All SE have done is spent years developing graphics and forgot to make a game.

This pretty much. People aren't upset that it's unfinished in the sense that their will be a content patch down the road, but the fact that....well i don't really think i need to list it for the millionth time.

Whenever a MMORPG is released half-baked we get apologists with this straw-man argument.

I think your not grasping what people mean by "finished".

Originally posted by Zedanko

I concur. 

but...

This thread will go nowhere without proper FFXIV hate.

Threads starting to move along quite nicely now.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Whenever a MMORPG is released half-baked we get apologists with this straw-man argument.

Really, I dislike reposting a consideration that I've already made but, when I see 4-5 people alleging of this right after I post such a consideration I really feel the need to temper perspectives:

So in its reposted glory:

When a consumer today is looking at whether or not FF14 is a good deal or not, compared to many of the more polished offerings of course it's not and will look "Half-baked".

A fair comparison would entail comparing products at launch.

This too has its pros and cons. I think this kind of comparison is good at assessing the potential of an MMO since a game that starts off with more offerings and interesting things at launch is going to have more potential than one that didn't have such features at launch.

Of course the con of this method is that it ignores the reality that a game like Aion or wow (even though it was released a while ago) is currently more polished than FF14.

Even if the developers were to extend the FF14 beta (= no profit) to add more features and gameplay, MMO games that have already been released will not only continue to make profits but also be cranking out their own sets of polished new features and gameplay. This only leads to raising the bar continuously and the features that are expected from new MMO's will only grow ( and they have if you think about it!! )

For a MMO developer, this presents an interesting conundrum because on one hand you can't just keep a game in beta for too long (angry investors, profit margins, etc.), but you can't release an absolute piece of crap either.

I personally think that ff14 has struck an OK balance between these two considerations. Sure there's a lot to be desired, but they've got to start recooping on the losses at some point. Given their past with FFXI I also believe that they will be supporting this game with lots of content. Additionally although the current FFXIV is certainly lacking in a lot of ways, having played it for a week, there are certainly more than a fair share of interesting things to experience.

Keeping these aspects in mind, I think that a lot of people have a lot of criticisms that are valid (and should be sent to SE's suggestions box!!!). What I don't think is valid is the amount of anger that seems to be permeating many forums and this "Half-Baked" nonsense...

Originally posted by Werecool01

Originally posted by Kyleran

Whenever a MMORPG is released half-baked we get apologists with this straw-man argument.

Keeping these aspects in mind, I think that a lot of people have a lot of criticisms that are valid (and should be sent to SE's suggestions box!!!). What I don't think is valid is the amount of anger that seems to be permeating many forums and this "Half-Baked" nonsense...

Half-baked is nonsense?

1. No tutorials to understand the game or what to do in it

2. Copy/pasted world over and over again

3. No flow to the quests, you have to run for 20 minutes to get from quest to quest. If the environment wasn't copy/pasted and there were interesting things to do along the way it might be fun but it is not the case

4. Which leads us to lack of mobs, the world is almost devoid of mobs as you explore

5. Guildleve. Repeatable quests are the main source of leveling? Everyone hated that in Aion, everyone still hates it now. It's plain lazy programming so you don't have to make interesting quests.

6. Terrible UI, laggy and unresponsive

7. People keep saying it's a social game yet their chat options are terrible, hard to communicate with other people

8. No AH... though they are supposed to add one 'eventually'?

9. Loads and loads of timesinks with crafting and gathering being almost a must or you cannot progress. "Come and do whatever you want in this game! Unless what you want is to progress however you want and whenever you want, then this is not the game for you!"

....

The list goes on and on. People are going to come back and say these are my opinions or they don't have most of the troubles or they are smart design "choices" by SE and they are great... yeah, like Kyleran here, we've heard all these things time and time again from every MMO that has been coming out. 

Bottom line, it's poor and often at times lazy game design. Does that mean the game can't be fun and you can't have great fun? No, of course you can. But to defend the half-baked garbage that is FFXIV now makes me weep for the rest of us gamers that expect a little quality and foresight to what their customers want.

Originally posted by vmoped

Originally posted by Cereo

 But to defend the half-baked garbage that is FFXIV now makes me weep for the rest of us gamers that expect a little quality and foresight to what their customers want.

 The problem is they did give a good bit of their customers what they wanted... to play little children anime characters running around aimlessly in a world filled with unecessary timesinks that looks pretty. Sounds like everything every anime fan I know was looking for. Different strokes for different folks. I just want to know what SE meant by a more casual experience when compared to FFIX which I have to highly disagree with them on.

Cheers!

I'll accept your joke ;) As for the last part,  this is what makes me the most sad, I felt I missed the FFXI boat, I read about FFXIV many months ago, SE said it was going to be more casual friendly and it seems like it is even less casual than its predecessor. What a shame...

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Is the day I stop paying $15 per month to play them.

I keep seeing posts about how FFXIV is "unfinished".

The best part about MMORPGs is they are always changing. Always adapting. Always improving. Just because FFXIV is "released" now, well that just means we can start playing.

The most important thing is to have a good company, with a good reputation, and a strong foundation to build upon. FFXIV has all of these things.

If you want to "wait" until the game is finished, you will be waiting a very long time. Me? I prefer to play now, start to experience the game before everyone else does, and establish my place in Eorzea.

I'll gladly level another job with all of the people who wait though! There will be a spot in Eorzea for you in a few months when you are ready.

I completely agree with you Jimmydean.  I still think people misunderstand the game.  No one seems to want to PLAY games anymore, just rush through the content.  Well, the 50 people that spread hate on this forum anyway. :P

Originally posted by Cereo

Originally posted by Werecool01

Originally posted by Kyleran

Whenever a MMORPG is released half-baked we get apologists with this straw-man argument.

Keeping these aspects in mind, I think that a lot of people have a lot of criticisms that are valid (and should be sent to SE's suggestions box!!!). What I don't think is valid is the amount of anger that seems to be permeating many forums and this "Half-Baked" nonsense...

Half-baked is nonsense?

1. No tutorials to understand the game or what to do in it

Do you honestly need a tutorial to play the game? (Isnt that why you start out in the boat?) I mean is this going to be your first MMO game ever?

2. Copy/pasted world over and over again

Which MMO doesn't do this?

3. No flow to the quests, you have to run for 20 minutes to get from quest to quest. If the environment wasn't copy/pasted and there were interesting things to do along the way it might be fun but it is not the case

So you've already basically ran from all points of the world already?

4. Which leads us to lack of mobs, the world is almost devoid of mobs as you explore

This has got to be one of the worst complaints ever...Do you seriously want mobs everywhere, and have people bunch all over the place and you have to fight for kills just to level up? If so, I'd recommend you go play an asian grinder. That will best fit your needs.

5. Guildleve. Repeatable quests are the main source of leveling? Everyone hated that in Aion, everyone still hates it now. It's plain lazy programming so you don't have to make interesting quests.

First you're complaining about quests being 20 minutes apart, second they implement repeatable quest so you don't have to scramble all over the world...So what is that you want? Make up your mind.

6. Terrible UI, laggy and unresponsive

Only thing I can agree here is, the mouse does have slow reaction.

7. People keep saying it's a social game yet their chat options are terrible, hard to communicate with other people

Does social always have to be about world chat? What ever happened to guild chat, group chat, or chatting with people nearby.

8. No AH... though they are supposed to add one 'eventually'?

I can live with that.

9. Loads and loads of timesinks with crafting and gathering being almost a must or you cannot progress. "Come and do whatever you want in this game! Unless what you want is to progress however you want and whenever you want, then this is not the game for you!"

Thank god, a game that puts crafting as a priority.

....

The list goes on and on. People are going to come back and say these are my opinions or they don't have most of the troubles or they are smart design "choices" by SE and they are great... yeah, like Kyleran here, we've heard all these things time and time again from every MMO that has been coming out. 

Bottom line, it's poor and often at times lazy game design. Does that mean the game can't be fun and you can't have great fun? No, of course you can. But to defend the half-baked garbage that is FFXIV now makes me weep for the rest of us gamers that expect a little quality and foresight to what their customers want.

Hmm...Sounds like a Sand Box game to me. This will be the perfect next game that I play.

Originally posted by csthao

Hmm...Sounds like a Sand Box game to me.

Well, it's not. Don't go in with that expectation.

 It's just boring as hell. You can only run around and kill the same stuff over and over again so many times. 8 quests in 36 hours + a few locals every 12 is really lame. Don't get me started on the skill up point dice rolll when you kill monsters.. who ever thought of that should be fired.  The only real fun if you wanna call it fun is the crafting system. Not many games out there let you craft a full set of gear that you will actually use.. But, this is the west and I don't see this game lasting very long out here if they dont start changing stuff.  People want more out of a game now a days and so far FF XIV just has two of em.. Great Graphics and a crafting system .

Wow, 2005 and before were so much better community wise when MMO gamers overall actually had fun with all these flawed, unfinished MMO's that lacked all kinds of features.

Originally posted by vectrexevo

 It's just boring as hell. You can only run around and kill the same stuff over and over again so many times. 8 quests in 36 hours + a few locals every 12 is really lame. Don't get me started on the skill up point dice rolll when you kill monsters.. who ever thought of that should be fired.  The only real fun if you wanna call it fun is the crafting system. Not many games out there let you craft a full set of gear that you will actually use.. But, this is the west and I don't see this game lasting very long out here if they dont start changing stuff.  People want more out of a game now a days and so far FF XIV just has two of em.. Great Graphics and a crafting system .

 just got to find mobs that weild good xp dodos ftw

... was not September 22nd, 2010.

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Is the day I stop paying $15 per month to play them.

I keep seeing posts about how FFXIV is "unfinished".

The best part about MMORPGs is they are always changing. Always adapting. Always improving. Just because FFXIV is "released" now, well that just means we can start playing.

The most important thing is to have a good company, with a good reputation, and a strong foundation to build upon. FFXIV has all of these things.

If you want to "wait" until the game is finished, you will be waiting a very long time. Me? I prefer to play now, start to experience the game before everyone else does, and establish my place in Eorzea.

I'll gladly level another job with all of the people who wait though! There will be a spot in Eorzea for you in a few months when you are ready.

So.. I'm working on this MMO.. right now everything is literally on paper, but you can level up by adding one tally to the paper per hour.. anyway, it's like $5/month..

Oh, and you can only use this pen I have.. it sometimes works... and i'm currently working on fixing this bug where other pens can be used.  A few beta testers have been exploiting this.

If you order my collector's edition, the pen comes with a laser pointer :D

I don't think Final Fantasy XIV's issues stem from being "unfinished" so much a they do from "being developed with a different development philosophy in mind."  Polish the game until it shines, eliminate the lag, remove all instability, and you still have a game that the average don't-make-me-work-for-anything casual-friendly MMORPG addict wouldn't touch with a ten foot halberd.