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Lord of the Rings Online

Lord of the Rings Online 

General Discussion  » Are pay as You go even worth it ?

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54 posts found
  Nebless

Novice Member

Joined: 12/22/08
Posts: 912

9/16/10 12:20:56 PM#21

While I think not allowing swift travel to be fairly strange, it's not as if that is the only means of getting around quickly (or atleast quicker than running).

In store:

- you can buy a mount and riding skill

- you can buy those X amount of time mount tokens

- you can buy a location X map

In game:

- Wardens can port to various locations

- You can set your map to different locations

- Captains can port to various locations and take their group with them?  Call the group to them?

And I'm sure there's a few more.

As far as the OP's title, since you don't need every single zone to play, having the option of only buying what you want / when you want totally makes it worth it.

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

9/16/10 12:26:28 PM#22
Originally posted by crazynanny

 


Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
 It is a convenience.
 
Do all the quests in an area and then run to the next area. Amazingly enough this was actually how MMORPGs were played by subscribing customers in the early days. It is not a necessity to be able to hop from point a to point b in 2 seconds.
 
Thinking that it is a necessity does show your mindset when it comes to MMOs and that you feel you are owed many things simply for playing.



Ah so personal attack starts, just because I have a different opinion? This is necessity if it takes 30-40 minutes to travel from one NPC to another. Have You ever done epic books in LOTRO? If yes You should know what I'm talking about. And please stop trolling I already said I don't want it for free. I just want to be able to buy things in turbine store to be on VIP level minus some conveniences.

 

 It is not a personal attack at all. There is a group of players out there that feel they deserve all of the conveniences and levesl in a game without paying for it, and that mindset is wrong.

 

I have done everything in LotRO before, including having a mount, which a f2p player can get. So buy the mount.

 

The swift travel is a CONVENIENCE not a NEED. In a f2p game conveniences cost money, it's how they make ends meet. It is not trolling to try and make you understand that.

  Traced

Novice Member

Joined: 6/17/08
Posts: 27

9/16/10 12:30:52 PM#23

I keep reading in this thread that non subs can't sue swift travel....I'm confused, cause I can. I did have to spend 200ish points to unlock the ride skill, and I hadd to buy the 500 silver started horse as far as mounts go, but I never had a problem with swift travel. I have it, have had it, and still have it.

I personally love the option to permanently unlock parts of the game. Many people have already said it here, but that option really only works well if you like alts a lot or is a casual player. You can obviously kick the crap out of the content in any mmo and rush through zones. I personally have sub'd to many mmo's since the UO deal, and have always felt somewhat pressured to play to get my moneys worth. I no longer feel that pressure with the new model.

 

I will say I think the terminology mmo's use and what turbine used is creating arguments among players as well. The F2P section of LOTRO is extremely limited. IMO you need to spend a few dollars as you play to unlock the rest of the game, and at which point you arn't a F2P player, you get upgraded (as turbine calls it) a premium player. VIP players are those who sub.

 

Also note when you buy an expansion, you get ALL its content for free (no sub), period. Good deal to me, maybe not to others. However for those nay sayers, Turbine made a dollar off of me. If they never introduced this model, I wouldn't have picked it up. And yes, I did sub to this game a while ago, but it wasn't worth the sub fee to me. Its certainly worth a piece rate to me, as its gonna take me 2 months til I even finish off the TP I did end up spending.

  MaGicBush

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/07
Posts: 692

Can't cut this bush.

9/16/10 12:31:36 PM#24
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by crazynanny

 


Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Pay as you go is just that, pay as you go. It should really only be used by 3 types of people. 1) Those that want to check out the game but aren't ready to make an investment in it. 2) Those who are very very casual and don't have much time to play, so they play for an hour here and there and drop in money when they need something. 3) The super cheap who think they should never have to pay for anything and are willing to grind out Turbine points/run everywhere since they don't want to pay for swift travel.
 
You are NOT supposed to have all the benefits as those who sub unless you pay a significant amount of money, simple as that. If you want swift travel then keep paying for it or sub. Subscription is the smart choice and as people have said on MMORPG a million times, it is about the same cost as going to the movies ONCE in an entire month.



So all the buzz about Turbine hybrid payment model being great, innovative and a more convenient way for people to pay, was just marketing? I thought the reason of cash shop being brought to give a choice - You sub and don't care. Or You pay as You go. From what You are writing it seems not. Subscribe or be gimped. Thanks for clearing that one for me.

 

 If you are going to play hard and level fast, pay as you go isn't going to work for you. The rate at which you will have to buy content and perks will be expensive therefore a subscription is the way to go.

 

If you don't play much/level fast then you can likely make F2P be cheaper month to month by a bit. And you can take two weeks to a month off without feeling like you are wasting your money.

 

It really isn't a tough concept. The problem is that people who like to game several hours a night WANT to not have to pay for their gaming so they keep getting mad when f2p games still cost them money. They don't get the having to pay for entertainment idea.

Honestly not understanding this much, how is subbing better than purchasing areas of the game permanently? People have summed up that to buy all the zones for the original game minus expacs is only $53(which I have MoM already). That's less than 4 month's of paying for a sub, a sub is monthly therefore after 4 month's your permanently saving money since you have the zones. The only real benefit a sub gets is swift travel, everything else is unlockable and you will technically save money in the long run if you don't sub, especially if you play lots of alts(like I do).

As for the topic, I really dont think swift travel is a big deal at all. I could care less if I have it, I can take my time exploring the world better and watch as I ride. Back in EQ days you could not "swift travel" anywhere lol, you had to walk to where you needed to go. If it was on the other side of the world you had at least a 5 hour walk to get there(prior to whichever of the thousand expansions that game had that added the portals).

--------------------

-Currently playing Aion.
-Played SWTOR, UO, EQ, AoC, WOW, War, LoTRO, FFXI, Rift, DFO.

  Jackdog

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/19/04
Posts: 6280

9/16/10 12:41:01 PM#25

this might be a dumb question but if you sub for a month, is swift travel, extra character slots, etc unlocked permenently? If so that would be cheaper than buying the scrolls, character slots etc wouldn't it?

I miss DAoC

  User Deleted
9/16/10 1:00:16 PM#26

Your lack of swift travel is *inconvenience* for *other* players, that are *paying* customers. Similar deal with auctions. Got it now? Care should be taken to make "convenience" items have most effect on yourself and minimum negative effect on others.

And in case you missed it, LOTRO went F2P so we are discussing F2P because that is kinda contemporary topic. Not the fate of aging P2P games, not some obsolete half-truth that nothing is free (mother's love is genuinely free, and many AAA films are broadcasted for free nowadays) or how selling packs works in GW/DDO when in LOTRO it is minor part of the model.

It is decent game, it has good production values, great IP, well working engine, nice community, it makes for generous free trial but game-play is lacking, the MMO grind is too obvious and cash shop is daytime robbery and grasping at straws.

Simply put, they just made good game worse and more expensive and that bugs me because it is what I dislike about the whole F2P business, not the "revolutionary" idea of selling product instead of service.

  Jackdog

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/19/04
Posts: 6280

9/16/10 1:03:25 PM#27
Originally posted by Tyrrhon

Simply put, they just made good game worse and more expensive and that bugs me because it is what I dislike about the whole F2P business, not the idea of selling product instead of service.

this is the part of your attitude  I do not get at all, is not the 15 dollar a month subscription rate still available if you do not want to pay as you go ?

They offered you some more choices, no one is forcing anything on you. I am a lifer but I don't think the subscribers saw any changes at all other than increased population. I mean if you do not like the F2P options then subscribe or do not play at all if it is really that unpleasant for you.

I miss DAoC

  User Deleted
9/16/10 1:10:19 PM#28

The 15/month is still valid. But it does not give all members of my party fast travel and all gatherers access to auction and it does not remove obnoxious immersion breaking buttons and it does not put me at equal footing with everyone else. It did all of this before. It now gives me the ability to spend more money though. Got it?

Your whole point actually is that old P2P LOTRO was better than the F2P offer. Doh, that is what I am saying, we are in agreement.

  eyeswideopen

Tipster

Joined: 5/24/09
Posts: 2503

9/16/10 1:12:38 PM#29
Originally posted by Jackdog

this might be a dumb question but if you sub for a month, is swift travel, extra character slots, etc unlocked permenently? If so that would be cheaper than buying the scrolls, character slots etc wouldn't it?

Swift travel no.

Character slots opened as a VIP, no.

Character slots purchased from the store, yes.

Auction access from being a VIP, no.

Auction access bought from the store, yes.

-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  crazynanny

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/10
Posts: 175

 
OP  9/16/10 1:12:39 PM#30

Well I know what I wanted. No reason to discuss with trolls implying I want everything for free.
Hopefully Turbine will be smart enough to see that and sell me what I want as this is cash for them.

  Papadam

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/07
Posts: 2127

9/16/10 1:12:51 PM#31
Originally posted by Tyrrhon

The 15/month is still valid. But it does not give all members of my party fast travel and all gatherers access to auction and it does not remove obnoxious immersion breaking buttons and it does not put me at equal footing with everyone else. It did all of this before. It now gives me the ability to spend more money though. Got it?

If people think selling on AH and having swift travel is important then they can either buy it from the store or go VIP. What is hard to understand?

If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  Jackdog

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/19/04
Posts: 6280

9/16/10 1:29:34 PM#32
Originally posted by Papadam
Originally posted by Tyrrhon

The 15/month is still valid. But it does not give all members of my party fast travel and all gatherers access to auction and it does not remove obnoxious immersion breaking buttons and it does not put me at equal footing with everyone else. It did all of this before. It now gives me the ability to spend more money though. Got it?

If people think selling on AH and having swift travel is important then they can either buy it from the store or go VIP. What is hard to understand?

I agree , Turbine gave people another option which is good, it's not for everyone but that's just tough.

BTW one more button on the UI bar is immersion breaking? stretching shit out a bit to find something to whine about arn't we?

I am not surprised though, the games population has doubled in the last week so I am sure the trolls will continue to nitpick anything they can

I miss DAoC

  User Deleted
9/16/10 1:35:40 PM#33
Originally posted by crazynanny

After reading forums here and official ones I heard so much about hybrid payment being a reasonable thing for people, as it gives a choice to pay as You go or subscribe. Subscription is quite obvious so I want to consider pay as You go.

So payment for all areas and unlocks is more or less cost of what lifetimers(perma VIP) paid. But is it worth it? Considering issue with no sensible swift travels available in turbine store(60 minute one is a joke). This alone makes me feel like 2nd rate customer. Kinda felt bad when questing(epic books) with friend and recognizing I have to trot over Angmar on horse as swifts are no avail. Now if I imagine going to Rivendell from there(like 30 minutes ride) I get kinda annoyed. I thought that quest pack bought = all swifts available.

I sure hope that this will change as basic things like this are nearly gamebreaking and I thought pay as You go was a reasonable option.

 My problem with posts like this one is simply in the fact that you are spending money on the game.  Now for those out there who truly are in a position to not be able to afford to pay fifteen a month I assure you they wouldn't be complaining about the quality of the free stuff they get but then we always get folks like the op who have the freedom to sub choses not to and then complains about the quality of the service.  you can sub to the original game and by the time you work your way to level fifty you will probably have easily been able to afford the two expansions for free (which the rest of us had to pay for).

Maybe it's just not meant for me but these posts complaining about the free content are just plain redundant when you can still sub for fifteen a month and get five hundred store points per month as well.  Simply put if you have a problem with the quality of the free game then pony up the dough like the rest of us are.

  Roman291

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/06
Posts: 109

9/16/10 1:42:49 PM#34

Honestly I like the F2P plan, but it's not perfect. Honestly, I've noticed that all F2P MMO's with microtransactions are somewhat pay 2 win. What I think some MMO should try a Pay For Time with the option of a Subscription business play. Like I buy 1 month for $X before I start playing then at the end of that month I wouldn't be able to play.

  User Deleted
9/16/10 1:44:28 PM#35
Originally posted by Tyrrhon

The 15/month is still valid. But it does not give all members of my party fast travel and all gatherers access to auction and it does not remove obnoxious immersion breaking buttons and it does not put me at equal footing with everyone else. It did all of this before. It now gives me the ability to spend more money though. Got it?

Your whole point actually is that old P2P LOTRO was better than the F2P offer. Doh, that is what I am saying, we are in agreement.

 You are also aware that before free to play launched when an expansion launched all party members had to have it to access that content too right?  What's the difference between that and say having a friend you think you are headed off to quest withonly to find out he doesn't have access to the quests of that area?  Same with Swift travel unless I missed the change you have to have visited a place atleast once to swift travel and some places even have reputation and deed restrictions, so haven't you already partied with people only to find you had to wait for them to arrive?

Wow I think I noticed two new buttons sitting right next to a bunch of buttons that were already there and that's breaking your immersion?

Lastly as far as the cash shop goes potions can still be made/purchased in game same with food etc. why would you need to spend more than the fifteen a month you spend subbing if you haven't done so to this point.  Basically that's to say I am totally self sufficient and have a supreme master for every craft and will never need to waste points on things like potions,scrolls etc. but even if you don't did you not have guildies to make these things etc.

  MaGicBush

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/07
Posts: 692

Can't cut this bush.

9/16/10 1:45:17 PM#36
Originally posted by Roman291

Honestly I like the F2P plan, but it's not perfect. Honestly, I've noticed that all F2P MMO's with microtransactions are somewhat pay 2 win. What I think some MMO should try a Pay For Time with the option of a Subscription business play. Like I buy 1 month for $X before I start playing then at the end of that month I wouldn't be able to play.

Unless I am mis-reading this, every P2P MMO offers this.. $15 or $10 for one month of play, then if you don't pay you can't play..

--------------------

-Currently playing Aion.
-Played SWTOR, UO, EQ, AoC, WOW, War, LoTRO, FFXI, Rift, DFO.

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

9/16/10 1:50:37 PM#37
Originally posted by MaGicBush
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by crazynanny

 


Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Pay as you go is just that, pay as you go. It should really only be used by 3 types of people. 1) Those that want to check out the game but aren't ready to make an investment in it. 2) Those who are very very casual and don't have much time to play, so they play for an hour here and there and drop in money when they need something. 3) The super cheap who think they should never have to pay for anything and are willing to grind out Turbine points/run everywhere since they don't want to pay for swift travel.
 
You are NOT supposed to have all the benefits as those who sub unless you pay a significant amount of money, simple as that. If you want swift travel then keep paying for it or sub. Subscription is the smart choice and as people have said on MMORPG a million times, it is about the same cost as going to the movies ONCE in an entire month.



So all the buzz about Turbine hybrid payment model being great, innovative and a more convenient way for people to pay, was just marketing? I thought the reason of cash shop being brought to give a choice - You sub and don't care. Or You pay as You go. From what You are writing it seems not. Subscribe or be gimped. Thanks for clearing that one for me.

 

 If you are going to play hard and level fast, pay as you go isn't going to work for you. The rate at which you will have to buy content and perks will be expensive therefore a subscription is the way to go.

 

If you don't play much/level fast then you can likely make F2P be cheaper month to month by a bit. And you can take two weeks to a month off without feeling like you are wasting your money.

 

It really isn't a tough concept. The problem is that people who like to game several hours a night WANT to not have to pay for their gaming so they keep getting mad when f2p games still cost them money. They don't get the having to pay for entertainment idea.

Honestly not understanding this much, how is subbing better than purchasing areas of the game permanently? People have summed up that to buy all the zones for the original game minus expacs is only $53(which I have MoM already). That's less than 4 month's of paying for a sub, a sub is monthly therefore after 4 month's your permanently saving money since you have the zones. The only real benefit a sub gets is swift travel, everything else is unlockable and you will technically save money in the long run if you don't sub, especially if you play lots of alts(like I do).

As for the topic, I really dont think swift travel is a big deal at all. I could care less if I have it, I can take my time exploring the world better and watch as I ride. Back in EQ days you could not "swift travel" anywhere lol, you had to walk to where you needed to go. If it was on the other side of the world you had at least a 5 hour walk to get there(prior to whichever of the thousand expansions that game had that added the portals).

 You only covered the zones. What about the pack space, character slots, swift travel etc etc etc. I would wager that buying everything/being VIP for a year are similar cost in the long run. One is over time so the payments are less, and one is heavier up front. The advantage of the store being you keep it forever and with VIP if you drop down to free mode then you lose access to it all. But at the same time obviously there will constantly be more things added to the store which you will need to keep buying as a free person or keep getting as a VIP.

 

If you want to hop right in and have access to everything and not hit roadblocks then throwing $15 at it the first month is the cheaper and easier method to use in my opinion.

  Roman291

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/06
Posts: 109

9/16/10 1:53:22 PM#38
Originally posted by MaGicBush
Originally posted by Roman291

Honestly I like the F2P plan, but it's not perfect. Honestly, I've noticed that all F2P MMO's with microtransactions are somewhat pay 2 win. What I think some MMO should try a Pay For Time with the option of a Subscription business play. Like I buy 1 month for $X before I start playing then at the end of that month I wouldn't be able to play.

Unless I am mis-reading this, every P2P MMO offers this.. $15 or $10 for one month of play, then if you don't pay you can't play..

I'm talking about like a time card thing, but without the card. Most MMO's do have time cards, but it's a hassle to go to the right store with the card.

  Jackdog

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/19/04
Posts: 6280

9/16/10 2:02:01 PM#39

when my daughter was about 11 years old one night she pitched a fit because the wife had bought plain chocolate ice cream instead of mint chocolate chip. I told my daughter to get 5 dollars from her room and I would  be happy to run to the store and let her buy whatever flavor she wanted. I took her about five seconds to decide the "free" chocolate would be just fine.

I miss DAoC

  Robsolf

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 3992

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

9/16/10 2:15:54 PM#40
Originally posted by crazynanny

So payment for all areas and unlocks is more or less cost of what lifetimers(perma VIP) paid. But is it worth it? Considering issue with no sensible swift travels available in turbine store(60 minute one is a joke). This alone makes me feel like 2nd rate customer. Kinda felt bad when questing(epic books) with friend and recognizing I have to trot over Angmar on horse as swifts are no avail. Now if I imagine going to Rivendell from there(like 30 minutes ride) I get kinda annoyed. I thought that quest pack bought = all swifts available.

I sure hope that this will change as basic things like this are nearly gamebreaking and I thought pay as You go was a reasonable option.

Agree about the temp swift travel store options.  They should just sell in # of uses.

Many swift travel options in the upper levels, and in your example, are locked to all players until a certain level, certain quest completed, or certain deed is earned.  So you may not be looking at a freebie player block.

Personally, I think the whole idea is that if you really like the game, you'll pay for a VIP sub.  I suppose, if you like the game so much that you'll grind every single deed on several characters so you can get the content for free, then more power to ya.  But it was always intended that the VIP's get the best bang for the buck.  At least that's how I see it.

SO, back to the original question.  Is pay as you go worth it... combining grinded points from deeds along with some extra cash based points to buy stuff here and there and put up with not having other things, I suppose it would be, if you didn't play religiously.  But if you're playing all the time, crafting and selling, raiding, deep in a guild, etc, it just makes more sense to go VIP.

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