No one can predict human nature but in my opinion the more factions there are out there, the more chances to achieve balance. I personally favor 3 + factions. DEBATE

Originally posted by Avathos

No one can predict human nature but in my opinion the more factions there are out there, the more chances to achieve balance. I personally favor 3 + factions. DEBATE

This debate already has several threads in the first page devoted to it, choose one.

I choose 4 factions.

1. Imperium of Man (Space marines + Imp guard)

2. Orks

3. Eldar

4. Chaos

all of em popular, all of them unique.

At LEAST 3 factions to start with, although 5+ would be better (although that is wishful thinking)

The devs need to look at daoc and planetside for pulling off multiple factions and well look at warhammer online also for how not to do it with only 2.

I think these 4 to start with

Imperium of man

chaos

eldar

orks

(expansions could be used for  those below)

tyranids

necrons

tau

dark eldar

If there is a huge budget for this game and you included content for all these factions this could be a genre defining product.

personally i think with the amount of lore/backstory and sheer size of the 40k universe, only having 2 factions is akin to shooting yourself in the foot right before taking part in an olympic race

As much as I would like to see 3+ factions, I can see why the Devs decided to go with 2. Every time you make another faction you split the player base even more. So think about it, lets say a server has 100 max level players currently online. Divide that up into however many factions you have and you can see how the player base gets very fractured. 

My personal preference would be 3 Factions. It's self balancing and gives more than just back and forth play. But from a game design stand point 2 Factions is easier to implement and easier on faction population.

couldn't the dark eldar work with the chaos? they both worship evil gods etc. Yes i know the 4 chaos gods are different from the dark eldar.

However if there is 2 factions, with eldar on the same side as space marines, it would make scene to have dark eldar in the other faction.

Originally posted by Avathos

No one can predict human nature but in my opinion the more factions there are out there, the more chances to achieve balance. I personally favor 3 + factions. DEBATE

I would like to see 4 or more factions.  I must say I am looking forward to this game!

Originally posted by Abisbowa

As much as I would like to see 3+ factions, I can see why the Devs decided to go with 2. Every time you make another faction you split the player base even more. So think about it, lets say a server has 100 max level players currently online. Divide that up into however many factions you have and you can see how the player base gets very fractured. 

My personal preference would be 3 Factions. It's self balancing and gives more than just back and forth play. But from a game design stand point 2 Factions is easier to implement and easier on faction population.

Or worst, one of them become so popular, that the 2 other faction always lose during all pvp gathering events.

Its happening with wow already. The Horde side always win because 1, they are more populated. 2, Horde got more Alduts over teen, while for the Ally, its the opposite.

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Originally posted by Abisbowa

As much as I would like to see 3+ factions, I can see why the Devs decided to go with 2. Every time you make another faction you split the player base even more. So think about it, lets say a server has 100 max level players currently online. Divide that up into however many factions you have and you can see how the player base gets very fractured. 

My personal preference would be 3 Factions. It's self balancing and gives more than just back and forth play. But from a game design stand point 2 Factions is easier to implement and easier on faction population.

Or worst, one of them become so popular, that the 2 other faction always lose during all pvp gathering events.

Its happening with wow already. The Horde side always win because 1, they are more populated. 2, Horde got more Alduts over teen, while for the Ally, its the opposite.

with all due respect, PvP in wow is one of the most half assed systems I have ever played in, primarily becuase it was put in as an afterthought just before release.

Originally posted by xuiton

couldn't the dark eldar work with the chaos? they both worship evil gods etc. Yes i know the 4 chaos gods are different from the dark eldar.

However if there is 2 factions, with eldar on the same side as space marines, it would make scene to have dark eldar in the other faction.

 the dark eldar actually dont worship any gods, they hate chaos, probably more than any other faction because when they die they are totured forever but slaanesh.

dark eldar will probably be left out of the game because they really cant team up with anyone, all they want to do is harvest souls so they can live forever so they make no alliances to keep their options open.

they also arent a very popular army. i have no idea how all this faction nonsense is going to work. it makes more sense for eldar and orks to be teamed up than chaos and orks.

"it makes more sense for eldar and orks to be teamed up than chaos and orks."

How so?  Orks can easily be bossed around.  As I said in another post, all a Chaos Lord needs to do is kill the Ork Warboss, declare himself the new warboss*** and offer the Orks the 'opportunity' to be the first to attack an Imperial Guard settlement.  Orks think they're getting the good deal for the glory and loot (even if they don't trust the 'umie) while Chaos use them as fodder.  Elder might use orcs but it would be far less directly and there would be no alliance.

***Edit - If the Orks didn't run away first.. Orks, after all, see nothing wrong with running away to fight another day.

Originally posted by Fortenc

"it makes more sense for eldar and orks to be teamed up than chaos and orks."

 

How so?  Orks can easily be bossed around.  As I said in another post, all a Chaos Lord needs to do is kill the Ork Warboss, declare himself the new warboss*** and offer the Orks the 'opportunity' to be the first to attack an Imperial Guard settlement.  Orks think they're getting the good deal for the glory and loot (even if they don't trust the 'umie) while Chaos use them as fodder.  Elder might use orcs but it would be far less directly and there would be no alliance.

 

***Edit - If the Orks didn't run away first.. Orks, after all, see nothing wrong with running away to fight another day.

 i doubt orks would listen to anything a chaos lord would have to say. and you're right, they probably would run away.

i guess my real point is that unless they make each army a faction theres going to be some massive lore rape since GW designed these armies as independent, almost never teaming up for any reason.

The forces of Future Order and Future Destruction.

I thought it was already said they were doing this?

I'm going to quote myself from 'A Square Peg in a Round Hole', the thread currently (at this moment) right below this one.. maybe trim some stuff.. I know the lore of Fantasy and 40K pretty well and uneasy alliances happen all the time, player-made (in games at the stores, tournaments and at home.. the true battles of 40K, admitted by GW) and in the books.

---

Just as the Dawn of War series had its own lore within the universe, Dark Millenium will be the same way.  There have been alliances in the past of WH40K and players may play on a team in certain tournaments, games, etcetera.  While some chapters of space marine would never ally with the Alien, the Mutant or the Heretic there are those who would for the greater good of the Emperor.  It is this diversity that would allow an alliance.

Nobody's saying that Eldar are sleeping together with Space Marines.  They will likely be very separate and only fight together.  Allied races may say different things depending on which allied race accepts their quest.  There will still be animosity.  It's an uneasy alliance.  At least there should be.

Space Marines have allied with Eldar in the past.  Eldar have allied with Space Marines.  The Harlequins of the Eldar even let some humans into The Black Vault for the greater good of learning how to destroy the Tyranids.  'Some threats are greater than the few and must be faced by the many.'  Eldar representatives have been sent down to human worlds in order to negotiate.  Rarely has it gone well, but they have done it.  Space Marines would much rather fight Chaos than the Eldar were both present on the battlefield, and the Black Templar especially would do anything to defeat Chaos.

Orks are stupid, but Orks know when the smashin's good.. they'll take the good smashin'.  Chaos could very easily dangle some easy Imperial Guard outposts before the Orks.  Bashin' a Warboss would also make a Chaos Lord, for example, have easy sway over the rabble Orks assembled.  They'd love to go in first as fodder to claim the glory while the Chaos let their screen of greenskins die and then corrupt and capture.  Sibilant whispers and secretive deals also have a way of following worshippers of Chaos.  Many stories are told of Chaos Space Marines using a variety of races, mainly tyranids and necrons, as their own corrupting force to weaken worlds.  Just follow and destroy.  Dark Eldar do the same thing though far more often.

There hasn't been much development in the WH40K universe in the past few years.  Who knows what has been going on.  If you believe in the lore then you should believe that the players make the lore.  In fact GW has held events in the past, mostly for Fantasy, where the players do indeed decide the push and pull of battle that forever affects lore in the future.

Eldar have allied with Space Marines on the battlefield of tabletops.  Chaos and Orks.  Heck, Tyranids and Eldar.  There are books that EXPLAIN why one race might ally with or hate another faction.  Even why one Eldar might fight another army of Eldar.  The 40K Scenarios book has such examples.

Thank you for reading.

TL;DR - Alliances are nothing new, WH40K story hasn't evolved in a long time.  Who knows what happened and why, it's all plausible and doesn't betray a thing.  Well, it could, but so far we don't know enough and it's very unlikely that they could even FIND a way to betray the lore other than making the Black Templar wear pink and worship Slaanesh.

They could always make special battlefields where the alliances break and there ARE more than two factions.  Or certain areas as such.  Just because most of the game consists of two factions doesn't mean that they couldn't evolve some sort of dynamic for PvP or hold weird world events.

---

Blah, enjoy.  All just my thoughts, but from a knowledgeable source at least.

Originally posted by Fortenc

I'm going to quote myself from 'A Square Peg in a Round Hole', the thread currently (at this moment) right below this one.. maybe trim some stuff.. I know the lore of Fantasy and 40K pretty well and uneasy alliances happen all the time, player-made (in games at the stores, tournaments and at home.. the true battles of 40K, admitted by GW) and in the books.

 

---

 

Just as the Dawn of War series had its own lore within the universe, Dark Millenium will be the same way.  There have been alliances in the past of WH40K and players may play on a team in certain tournaments, games, etcetera.  While some chapters of space marine would never ally with the Alien, the Mutant or the Heretic there are those who would for the greater good of the Emperor.  It is this diversity that would allow an alliance.

 

Nobody's saying that Eldar are sleeping together with Space Marines.  They will likely be very separate and only fight together.  Allied races may say different things depending on which allied race accepts their quest.  There will still be animosity.  It's an uneasy alliance.  At least there should be.

 

Space Marines have allied with Eldar in the past.  Eldar have allied with Space Marines.  The Harlequins of the Eldar even let some humans into The Black Vault for the greater good of learning how to destroy the Tyranids.  'Some threats are greater than the few and must be faced by the many.'  Eldar representatives have been sent down to human worlds in order to negotiate.  Rarely has it gone well, but they have done it.  Space Marines would much rather fight Chaos than the Eldar were both present on the battlefield, and the Black Templar especially would do anything to defeat Chaos.

 

Orks are stupid, but Orks know when the smashin's good.. they'll take the good smashin'.  Chaos could very easily dangle some easy Imperial Guard outposts before the Orks.  Bashin' a Warboss would also make a Chaos Lord, for example, have easy sway over the rabble Orks assembled.  They'd love to go in first as fodder to claim the glory while the Chaos let their screen of greenskins die and then corrupt and capture.  Sibilant whispers and secretive deals also have a way of following worshippers of Chaos.  Many stories are told of Chaos Space Marines using a variety of races, mainly tyranids and necrons, as their own corrupting force to weaken worlds.  Just follow and destroy.  Dark Eldar do the same thing though far more often.

 

There hasn't been much development in the WH40K universe in the past few years.  Who knows what has been going on.  If you believe in the lore then you should believe that the players make the lore.  In fact GW has held events in the past, mostly for Fantasy, where the players do indeed decide the push and pull of battle that forever affects lore in the future.

 

Eldar have allied with Space Marines on the battlefield of tabletops.  Chaos and Orks.  Heck, Tyranids and Eldar.  There are books that EXPLAIN why one race might ally with or hate another faction.  Even why one Eldar might fight another army of Eldar.  The 40K Scenarios book has such examples.

 

Thank you for reading.

 

TL;DR - Alliances are nothing new, WH40K story hasn't evolved in a long time.  Who knows what happened and why, it's all plausible and doesn't betray a thing.  Well, it could, but so far we don't know enough and it's very unlikely that they could even FIND a way to betray the lore other than making the Black Templar wear pink and worship Slaanesh.

 

They could always make special battlefields where the alliances break and there ARE more than two factions.  Or certain areas as such.  Just because most of the game consists of two factions doesn't mean that they couldn't evolve some sort of dynamic for PvP or hold weird world events.

 

---

 

Blah, enjoy.  All just my thoughts, but from a knowledgeable source at least.

Everyone needs to read this post and get over this "omg races never ally and only mindlessly kill each other cause thats how it was in the one 40k thing ive seen" mentallity.

Its like these people played dark crusade and now think there 40k experts or something.