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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » (Required Viewing) Fatigue System is Awesome!

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91 posts found
  Aruvia

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/06
Posts: 66

9/13/10 5:03:30 AM#41
Originally posted by Kaocan

Honestly I am starting to think SE should do just like AoC did. They should remove this system for the first 2 months. Let all these freaks power level themselves to cap in 2 weeks, get bored and they will all go away. Then SE can put this back in since nobody that is left will care either way since it doesn't effect them anyway, and we can all live happily forever after. Well all except the power freaks who are so bent out of shape about a system that has yet to even effect them anyway. Seriously, are any of you bitching about this system even planning on playing this game when it goes live? You do know it hasn't gone live yet right? You do know your arguing about something that hasn't even been put in freaking place yet right?? A SYSTEM NOBODY HAS SEEN EFFECT THEM YET! Honestly, I'd call some of you stupid if I thought you smart enough to even know what that word meant.

 Based on your logic here you should not be able to defend the mechanic either and you dont know if it will effect you. 

We can however form an opinion based on the information they have provided, the video provided by the OP being one source.

and while I am a fairly casual player most of the time I can see where this feature as described would be an issue for me.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6023

9/13/10 8:33:55 AM#42
Originally posted by jezvin

So....

You grind until the game tells you to stop?

Then you grind some more?

This system dose not seem revolutionary in any way shape or form.

I got an amazing idea lets make it so people stop getting exp at a certain point and force them to do somthing else becuase we have to make sure everyone is equal.

Or lets make it so we can dictate the amount of time it takes to level up so we have time to fill our game with content while they pay us.

edit: I'm not done ranting, this is retarded I didn't even know such a system existed in this game. Why would you ever make it so the player cannot level their main class in a game where the main goal is to LEVEL. WTF I loved ffxi, and I have been keeping my eye on this game even though I didn't like it so far. but this is STUPID WTF they truly have no idea what made their first game good in the first place my god how did they screw shit up this bad.

edit 2: So if I set aside a day with my friends to go and level I will in half a day or so not be able to get anymore exp? And not just for the day for a whole fucking week? WTF. And why? because other people are not leveling as fast as me? WHY DO I CARE HOW FAST SOMEONE ELSE CAN LEVEL. it's a pve game who gives a damn if some random person levels up crazy fast. There are only two reasons I see for this system, 1 they want to squeeze as much money out of you they can, 2 they havn't finished their game. WTF.

O and if I figure out a way to exp really fast then thats just stopping me from playing even sooner, why do I want to play a game which will be like o sorry you can't level your main class anymore this week. O don't worry it's not like this game isn't about leveling or anything, how about you go outside and never come back to this game the whole week or play another game or just unsub because you can't play this game when you want to.

I agree. I dont get the point of this system. Why do anybody care how fast somebody else can lvl?

  ReRoller

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/05
Posts: 61

9/13/10 8:38:51 AM#43

Sounds like they found a way to turn a 20 days played time sink into a 200 days played one. I mean, isn't this just a way to give "casuals" a completely useless achievement of reaching physical level max. While everyone else realizes to be useful you need an optimal mixture of disciplines and to get that mix you are going to have to grind through the same content over and over again to raise up the other "optional choices" so you can have the "freedom" to get the right mix of disciplines.

I could be way off (really, I'm not sure), as this is just based on watching the high quality video, as I haven't been following ffxiv since e3 and am not a fan of the ff series.

  rem0te

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/05
Posts: 11

9/13/10 9:06:13 AM#44
Originally posted by ReRoller

Sounds like they found a way to turn a 20 days played time sink into a 200 days played one.

 Wrong.  They, like every mmo designer out there, decided it should take "200 days" to reach max level.  If they remove the Fatigue system, and go like every other MMO, they'll crank up XP required per level so it take a hardcore player about 200 days.

Read again what I just said:  even if they remove fatigue system, you will NOT be able to reach max level faster.

However, casual player who don't play as much as hardcore player will find the grinding absolutly horrendous as they take 2000 days to reach max level.  So, again, they didnt turn 20 days into 200, they actually did the opposite, 2000 days into 200.

I thought that the movie in OP showed that quite clearly -.-  why do I feel like I need to explain it agan >_<;

Also, if you cannot grasp why this system is beneficial for everyone, you are, most likely, an egocentric selfish solo player that would be better off playing a single player RPG.

  Aruvia

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/06
Posts: 66

9/13/10 9:28:33 AM#45
Originally posted by rem0te
Originally posted by ReRoller

Sounds like they found a way to turn a 20 days played time sink into a 200 days played one.

 Wrong.  They, like every mmo designer out there, decided it should take "200 days" to reach max level.  If they remove the Fatigue system, and go like every other MMO, they'll crank up XP required per level so it take a hardcore player about 200 days.

Read again what I just said:  even if they remove fatigue system, you will NOT be able to reach max level faster.

However, casual player who don't play as much as hardcore player will find the grinding absolutly horrendous as they take 2000 days to reach max level.  So, again, they didnt turn 20 days into 200, they actually did the opposite, 2000 days into 200.

I thought that the movie in OP showed that quite clearly -.-  why do I feel like I need to explain it agan >_<;

Also, if you cannot grasp why this system is beneficial for everyone, you are, most likely, an egocentric selfish solo player that would be better off playing a single player RPG.

 

The difference between a leveling curve and this system is that a leveling curve can only control how many hours it will take to reach max level.  the player can determine how those hours are broken up so for simplicity sake say it takes 360 hours to reach max level, if a player devoted 24 hours per day to playing they could reach max level in 15 days

now in this system again for simplicity sake say it takes 15 hours to reach the xp  cutoff (8 hours until decline and not sure on the math for the rest) that limits it to 15 hours in a week. So no matter how much time someone plays per day it would still take 24 weeks to achieve that 360 hours of experience gain.

in other words they can control how many weeks it takes to level regardless of how many hours someone has to devote.

look to my earlier post to see at least one way this can be an issue for even a mostly casual player.

In my opinion this is only really beneficial for SE.

  rem0te

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/05
Posts: 11

9/13/10 9:48:33 AM#46
Originally posted by Aruvia

look to my earlier post to see at least one way this can be an issue for even a mostly casual player.

"While this may seem great to a casual player at first, I can see at least one major potential issue here, I, like many other casual players have times that I can and would like to devote more time to a game than normal. for example when I take vacation, or for others during spring break or whatever, now with this system this could be pretty pointless, during a one week vacation I could easily log more than 24 hours playing, that would be exp capped and three classes capped  in just three 8 hour days I still have at least 4 days left in my vacation. blah..."

 hmm, ok.  First, a correction:  its 8hours of full XP and 15hours before you gain no benefit.  so at 8hours a day, it'd take you 2 days of playing before reaching the "no xp gain threshold".  Still going with your 3 classes example above, thats 6 days @ 8 hour a day before your 3 main classes are capped.  Or is it?  by the 6th day, your threshold will have lowered on your first class, meaning you can still grind a bit more.  Lets say a 4 day break lowered it enough to allow you to play another 8 hours.  so you have a 7th day worth of playing here.  And on the 8th day? well, Fatigue system reset itself every week, so you can do another full week of 8hour per day grinding on your 3 main class.

Now, I do get your point.  its a valid one:  system can hinder your freedom at playing the game in burst.

But considering you can play 3 classe full time 8 hours a day non stop seems pretty reasonable limit to me.

  Aruvia

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/06
Posts: 66

9/13/10 9:58:04 AM#47
Originally posted by rem0te
Originally posted by Aruvia

look to my earlier post to see at least one way this can be an issue for even a mostly casual player.

"While this may seem great to a casual player at first, I can see at least one major potential issue here, I, like many other casual players have times that I can and would like to devote more time to a game than normal. for example when I take vacation, or for others during spring break or whatever, now with this system this could be pretty pointless, during a one week vacation I could easily log more than 24 hours playing, that would be exp capped and three classes capped  in just three 8 hour days I still have at least 4 days left in my vacation. blah..."

 hmm, ok.  First, a correction:  its 8hours of full XP and 15hours before you gain no benefit.  so at 8hours a day, it'd take you 2 days of playing before reaching the "no xp gain threshold".  Still going with your 3 classes example above, thats 6 days @ 8 hour a day before your 3 main classes are capped.  Or is it?  by the 6th day, your threshold will have lowered on your first class, meaning you can still grind a bit more.  Lets say a 4 day break lowered it enough to allow you to play another 8 hours.  so you have a 7th day worth of playing here.  And on the 8th day? well, Fatigue system reset itself every week, so you can do another full week of 8hour per day grinding on your 3 main class.

Now, I do get your point.  its a valid one:  system can hinder your freedom at playing the game in burst.

But considering you can play 3 classe full time 8 hours a day non stop seems pretty reasonable limit to me.

 maybe you can answer this for me, I am a bit ignorant on how the classes work, is it really better to level three classes in that time span then leveling two classes further?

  Aruvia

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/06
Posts: 66

9/13/10 10:15:56 AM#48
Originally posted by Aruvia
Originally posted by rem0te
 

Now, I do get your point.  its a valid one:  system can hinder your freedom at playing the game in burst.

But considering you can play 3 classe full time 8 hours a day non stop seems pretty reasonable limit to me.

 maybe you can answer this for me, I am a bit ignorant on how the classes work, is it really better to level three classes in that time span then leveling two classes further?

 

I guess that's my thing, if playing a single class or even two classes is viable then it would be better to stick to those two classes, which would make this more limiting, if however you need three or more to be viable then it would be less limiting.  But either way it gives the perception of being limited which in general people do not like. In addition if three classes are required or even two the benefits of this system to a very casual player become miniscule which still to me looks like it is only a true benefit to SE

  rem0te

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/05
Posts: 11

9/13/10 10:19:06 AM#49
Originally posted by Aruvia

 maybe you can answer this for me, I am a bit ignorant on how the classes work, is it really better to level three classes in that time span then leveling two classes further?

I don't think I can say yes or no to that question, might be subject to one belief of what is better.  However, I can fill you in data to make your own conclusion:

"Classe" are actually called discipline.  You change discipline by simply changing weapon.  even gatherring and crafting are made into discipline.  you equip a mining pick, you are a miner.

Its important to remind its a discipline and not a classe or job like FFXI because when you think class and job, you think more level mean more hp, more str, ect...

A rank in a discipline give you attack move, spells, buff...  but will do nothing on your actual power.  Physical level, which are not tied to discipline, will give you HP, MP, Strenght, Dextirity, elemental resist and potency, ect...

Physical level xp gained is also tied to fatigue system, independant from discipline fatigue.  I could be wrong, but I think I read somewhere that physical level fatigue take longer than discipline fatigue to reach the "no xp threshold"

Once you get a Discipline to rank 10, you can equip rank 1-10 actions from any discipline you already leveled (there is some restriction to balance it out).   Number of action you  can equip is limited by action point.

At end game, people will likely want max rank on most discipline as having the ability to mix match action to face a specific chalenge will likely be key to wining hardcore content.

edit:

Casual player will have less versatility than someone who managed to rank more discipline, but he will be able to participate and enjoy those end game events at about the same time as the hardcore one, not 2 year later.

  ThomasN7

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6656

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

9/13/10 10:33:40 AM#50

At first I did nto like it but  now it seems to make alot of sense especially in crafting because you will need to learn a little bit of other crafts in order to progress if you are doing it all by yourself.  So technically I can get to level 15 and rest my guy then go work on something else like my crafting professions. Some are just mad because SE won't let them rush through the game like they do in every other mmo.  Also the system they have in place doesn't force players to play everyday to justify that monthly fee.  I like it.

  Leucent

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 2452

9/13/10 10:39:02 AM#51

The only ones that are going to complain, are those that can play alot in a day, and want to reach end game level as fast as possible. For me and my wife this system is awesome. We both take our time, explore and see all we can see. Having to play more classes is a bonus for us IMO. Hell I can t count how many times is some games we would look at each other and say damn I wish I could turn off exp. I can almost guarentee we ll never or very rarely get to the point were not gaining some exp. If I do I ll barely even notice it because I don t look at my exp bar, never have never will.

  QSatu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/06
Posts: 1765

9/13/10 10:45:10 AM#52

After seeing this video it looks ok to be honest. I really don't see a problem here. Aren't there games like EvE where you too need x number of days to reach lvl x?

  Aruvia

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/06
Posts: 66

9/13/10 10:45:46 AM#53
Originally posted by rem0te
Originally posted by Aruvia

 maybe you can answer this for me, I am a bit ignorant on how the classes work, is it really better to level three classes in that time span then leveling two classes further?

I don't think I can say yes or no to that question, might be subject to one belief of what is better.  However, I can fill you in data to make your own conclusion:

"Classe" are actually called discipline.  You change discipline by simply changing weapon.  even gatherring and crafting are made into discipline.  you equip a mining pick, you are a miner.

Its important to remind its a discipline and not a classe or job like FFXI because when you think class and job, you think more level mean more hp, more str, ect...

A rank in a discipline give you attack move, spells, buff...  but will do nothing on your actual power.  Physical level, which are not tied to discipline, will give you HP, MP, Strenght, Dextirity, elemental resist and potency, ect...

Physical level xp gained is also tied to fatigue system, independant from discipline fatigue.  I could be wrong, but I think I read somewhere that physical level fatigue take longer than discipline fatigue to reach the "no xp threshold"

Once you get a Discipline to rank 10, you can equip rank 1-10 actions from any discipline you already leveled (there is some restriction to balance it out).   Number of action you  can equip is limited by action point.

At end game, people will likely want max rank on most discipline as having the ability to mix match action to face a specific chalenge will likely be key to wining hardcore content.

edit:

Casual player will have less versatility than someone who managed to rank more discipline, but he will be able to participate and enjoy those end game events at about the same time as the hardcore one, not 2 year later.

 

Wow thank you for summing that all up for me!

The video indicates that Physical level will stop gaining xp at same rate as first Discipline, Honestly I was avoiding this part in our discussion just because it made it seem even more restrictive to me.

in the end, on paper I do not like this system at all, as to whether or not I will actually feel an impact I just won't know for sure until the game launches,  it is just speculation until I can feel it in action.

  rem0te

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/05
Posts: 11

9/13/10 10:51:42 AM#54
Originally posted by Aruvia 

Wow thank you for summing that all up for me!

The video indicates that Physical level will stop gaining xp at same rate as first Discipline, Honestly I was avoiding this part in our discussion just because it made it seem even more restrictive to me.

in the end, on paper I do not like this system at all, as to whether or not I will actually feel an impact I just won't know for sure until the game launches,  it is just speculation until I can feel it in action.

Open beta is still going until sunday.  I suggest you give it a try to see how the fatigue would impact you.

However, since its an MMO and MMO change and evolve constantly, keep in mind "threshold" will likely be adjusted if they turn out being too restrictive.

  Aruvia

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/06
Posts: 66

9/13/10 10:59:19 AM#55
Originally posted by rem0te
Originally posted by Aruvia 

Wow thank you for summing that all up for me!

The video indicates that Physical level will stop gaining xp at same rate as first Discipline, Honestly I was avoiding this part in our discussion just because it made it seem even more restrictive to me.

in the end, on paper I do not like this system at all, as to whether or not I will actually feel an impact I just won't know for sure until the game launches,  it is just speculation until I can feel it in action.

Open beta is still going until sunday.  I suggest you give it a try to see how the fatigue would impact you.

However, since its an MMO and MMO change and evolve constantly, keep in mind "threshold" will likely be adjusted if they turn out being too restrictive.

 oh, my understanding was that this feature was not yet in beta, my bad, unfortunatly the last time I tried to play it did not get along well with my aging rig. the client has been updated since then so I will give it another try. thank you again for your polite and well thought out conversation.

  mackdawg19

Tipster

Joined: 5/28/07
Posts: 868

"If men were created equal, then what happened to game developers?"

9/13/10 11:05:29 AM#56

I have never played this game nor cared to try it, but after the constant reading about it and this system. It seem's like a system that is very restrictive. I'm not sure why a developer would put a system in place that controls the xp gain regardless of playing one main class or 2 sub classes. Kind of shocked people are okay that a developer is telling you how to play your character and your okay with. I kind of get why a system like this would help everyone progress at the same level, but shouldn't it be up to the player as to how they want to develop there character? If they want to gimp themselves, they should be allowed to. This whole scenario sounds very Castero'ish if you know what I mean. Live this way, do this, eat that, spend here, dont buy there. Whatever floats your boat tho. Enjoy! :)

  rem0te

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/05
Posts: 11

9/13/10 11:11:21 AM#57
Originally posted by Aruvia

 oh, my understanding was that this feature was not yet in beta, my bad, unfortunatly the last time I tried to play it did not get along well with my aging rig. the client has been updated since then so I will give it another try. thank you again for your polite and well thought out conversation.

 Its in beta allright.  Although, most people didnt feel it until rank 16   :P

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7330&start=0&hilit=surplus

  dirtyjoe78

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 407

9/13/10 11:15:19 AM#58

After reading everyones replies i still have seen no justification for limiting gameplay.  the arguement that it keeps casuals and hardcore players closer in level is a half truth used to steer you away from the fact that a casual player will always be behind a hardcore player.  Heres an example, casual player playes 2-3 hrs a day and manages to play their main and a another class a bit.  Hardcore player plays 4-6hrs a day manages to max out main and sub and possibly another sub job as well as craft some and explore or whatever.  In the end the casual player is still behind because their crafting isint leveled or their third job that they need isint leveled or their secondary job isint maxed for the available play time.  there are a lot of ways to spin it but the bottom line is it is limiting player choice on how to play the game. 

Why do some of you care if someone wants to powerlevel their main class to cap then go back and work on other jobs or crafting?  Is it not their money they spent on the game who are you or anyone else for that matter to tell someone how to play, to each their own, everyone has a different play style.  Whats fun to you may not be fun to me, maybe some people dont like being told go play another job you played this one enough for this week.  In the end it does nothing but limit players choice on how they want to play the game.

  RelGn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/05
Posts: 515

9/13/10 11:18:05 AM#59

Nice very good explanation.

 

I should give it try.My mind is always open for new methods in mmos

  Simsu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/06/03
Posts: 332

9/13/10 11:25:58 AM#60

I get a chuckle out of the people talking about the legalities of the fatigue system, breach of contract, etc etc. If you're going to go out there and throw out legal this, legal that, breach of contract, etc you might want to make sure you're using the terms correctly otherwise you look like an idiot.

Basically I see a lot of people (entitlment generation) crying about how unfair the system, that they've never played or tried, is because they can't have everything exactly the way they want it at all times, on demand, with a cherry on top. (Further that it's illegal and a breach of contract for a company to dare to make a game that doesn't have everything exactly how they, the individual, want it.)

Stupid people are stupid.

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