Probably having two major events organized on close dates, as GamesCom and Pax, kind of exhausts the information one could release about Guild Wars 2, in this particular moment - however this PvP system choice they speak of in the interview is news to me. Having played Warhammer online and simply loving theyr Realm vs Realm PvP, i couldnt be happyer about Guild Wars 2 opting for a similar system.

I haven't played any of the GW2 demo versions so far, but from what i've red on the net and from the videos i've seen so far, i noticed there are common classes (warrior, ranger, elementalist and necromancer), in the game with a common NPC that  sells you spells (nothing new so far). Personally i would have appreciated an original at least terminology, and/or class progression, like for instance Age of Conan the Herald of Xotli or the Conqueror, or as old Lineage 2 with its Spellsingers, Overlords and all the others, along with a class evolution step.  Guess we'll still have to wait and see if the remaining 4 professions to be revealed are stereotypical classes or maybe they'll bring out something new.

I'm hoping they'll bring back the mesmer from GW1. There's a class you don't see in many other MMOs.

Loving this so much.

The more I read, the more I am won over.

I am SO looking forward to playing this EXPERIENCE--because it no longer seems like just a game to me. =)

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Xondar123

 

That's because they've already released every bit of information the game has to offer. We've already seen everything there is to see for GW2.

Oh, great. Then you might answer a few questions to me:

How will crafting work?

Will you actually get armor dropping or will they be crafted so they actually fit you like in the first game (I do know you can upgrade the armor).

How will Norns work, can they shapeshift at will and what are their froms?

Which animals will be pets? Minipets?LOL Minipets

Which are the all the 8 classes, I only know 4?

Either you are working on ANET yourself or that was some weird sarcasm becuse there are a lot of unknowns yet. The reason they havn't said so much news is the fact that they revealed loads at Gamescon a few weeks ago and they only talks about stuff that already works now.

Crafting and PvP are the 2 big subjects which we heard very little about yet. But I think many people forget that it was only a few weeks ago we got to see the game and were shown a lot of this content.

Just relax, they will release more things when they work as they should, besides, it would be stupid to hype up the game so long before launch and reveal nothing new after that.

 

good stuff cant wait for this game! I just really want more info. From the info and videos I have gathered from these events it looks like to be a fun, social and very poished product.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

 

I think this guy thought this was a Jumpgate: Evolution article.

Apparently the last few weeks don't count for much to you, then?

Originally posted by Volkspanzer

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I'd say its time for some real news... They are only repeating things we (atleast me ) allready knew

 

I think this guy thought this was a Jumpgate: Evolution article.

Apparently the last few weeks don't count for much to you, then?

No Lord.Bachus knows his onions, that's the downside of being on top of the info/marketing dowload for a new game ; )

I was interested in their ideas about making the mmo more about players reacting positively with each other, & their acknowledgement to DAOC's 3-FACTION system - one of the BEST examples of ArenaNet choosing the right features and design to implement.

Still only half-way on some of the features revealed: Professions, PvP, End-Game, Crafting, Guilds, Story.

So when's the release date? "When it's ready." : O

GW2 looks great - and sounds great.  Ive been an avid MMO fan for many years, dating back to Earth and Beyond; and have played a dozen or so MMO's.

I truly hope the devs ideas and VERY optimistic hopes and dreams dontcome crashing down though.

One thing I believe many developers completely and utterly fail to capture and grasp is the nature of much of the modern day MMO community.  Perhaps I am a bit jaded, but sadly there are a lot of very nasty and vicious groups of players out there.  Griefing for some people is the ultimate fun.

Every Game I have played has had more than its share of players and entire guilds that can simply ruin a server or game for everyone else.  I'm sure everyone here who has played MMO's understands this.

You have players and  guilds that will do anything and everything they can to get ahead.  Exploit, cheat, bend other people to their devices.  Griefing can be quite prominent. You have players that no matter how great a game is will bash it, the community, and spoil the fun for others - even while still playing the game and moaning constantly about it.

You simply cannot gauge how far a community of players can twist an MMO.

Instead of asking so many questions about the Dynamic Events system, etc and sounding all enthralled and amazed by it... why isnt MMORPG.com and others asking harder questions?  How is GW2 going to prevent your hardcore "ill win at any cost" players from damaging the concept of the game for casual players?  How fast will they get a handle on exploiting and cheats?  How much in-game support is there going to be to handle the ugly stuff? 

It doesnt seem possible... but I can GUARANTEE you that someone will find a way to grief someone else during these dynamic events.  How is GW2 going to fix that?

Could be the most well thought out, designed, and greatest game ever.  But if the Community turns out to be riddled with punks, elitist jerks and the like it will be no better than anything else around.

Originally posted by FURYBlakhart

GW2 looks great - and sounds great.  Ive been an avid MMO fan for many years, dating back to Earth and Beyond; and have played a dozen or so MMO's.

 

I truly hope the devs ideas and VERY optimistic hopes and dreams dontcome crashing down though.

One thing I believe many developers completely and utterly fail to capture and grasp is the nature of much of the modern day MMO community.  Perhaps I am a bit jaded, but sadly there are a lot of very nasty and vicious groups of players out there.  Griefing for some people is the ultimate fun.

Every Game I have played has had more than its share of players and entire guilds that can simply ruin a server or game for everyone else.  I'm sure everyone here who has played MMO's understands this.

You have players and  guilds that will do anything and everything they can to get ahead.  Exploit, cheat, bend other people to their devices.  Griefing can be quite prominent. You have players that no matter how great a game is will bash it, the community, and spoil the fun for others - even while still playing the game and moaning constantly about it.

You simply cannot gauge how far a community of players can twist an MMO.

Instead of asking so many questions about the Dynamic Events system, etc and sounding all enthralled and amazed by it... why isnt MMORPG.com and others asking harder questions?  How is GW2 going to prevent your hardcore "ill win at any cost" players from damaging the concept of the game for casual players?  How fast will they get a handle on exploiting and cheats?  How much in-game support is there going to be to handle the ugly stuff? 

It doesnt seem possible... but I can GUARANTEE you that someone will find a way to grief someone else during these dynamic events.  How is GW2 going to fix that?

 I'm sure ArenaNet will monitor the launch and the early days of the game more heavily than any other day of the game since they recognize this period is the most important. They've done this with Guild Wars 1, very quick to fix any unforseen flaws in mechanics. And even during the life, sometimes even hours of an exploit being exposed, they take action. They read and reply in the fansite forums. Probably the quickest way to bring out problems and get attention quickly. ArenaNet can take severe actions as well from suspension to permanent ban.

In GW1, there are youtube videos of people getting banned by the Bhan of Dhuum, he slices you in half and burns your corpse. They only do this when you are online so everyone sees that they mean business! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fFYug8nXcM In spring alone, they've banned 3700 accounts. So expect that they will continue something like this. They also have an in-game reporting sytem that's very quick to use.

Could be the most well thought out, designed, and greatest game ever.  But if the Community turns out to be riddled with punks, elitist jerks and the like it will be no better than anything else around.

Originally posted by FURYBlakhart

GW2 looks great - and sounds great.  Ive been an avid MMO fan for many years, dating back to Earth and Beyond; and have played a dozen or so MMO's.

 

I truly hope the devs ideas and VERY optimistic hopes and dreams dontcome crashing down though.

One thing I believe many developers completely and utterly fail to capture and grasp is the nature of much of the modern day MMO community.  Perhaps I am a bit jaded, but sadly there are a lot of very nasty and vicious groups of players out there.  Griefing for some people is the ultimate fun.

Every Game I have played has had more than its share of players and entire guilds that can simply ruin a server or game for everyone else.  I'm sure everyone here who has played MMO's understands this.

You have players and  guilds that will do anything and everything they can to get ahead.  Exploit, cheat, bend other people to their devices.  Griefing can be quite prominent. You have players that no matter how great a game is will bash it, the community, and spoil the fun for others - even while still playing the game and moaning constantly about it.

You simply cannot gauge how far a community of players can twist an MMO.

Instead of asking so many questions about the Dynamic Events system, etc and sounding all enthralled and amazed by it... why isnt MMORPG.com and others asking harder questions?  How is GW2 going to prevent your hardcore "ill win at any cost" players from damaging the concept of the game for casual players?  How fast will they get a handle on exploiting and cheats?  How much in-game support is there going to be to handle the ugly stuff? 

It doesnt seem possible... but I can GUARANTEE you that someone will find a way to grief someone else during these dynamic events.  How is GW2 going to fix that?

 

Could be the most well thought out, designed, and greatest game ever.  But if the Community turns out to be riddled with punks, elitist jerks and the like it will be no better than anything else around.

Watch this http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic

You can skip to the Q&A section or you can watch the whole thing. Its quite interesting but the Q&A section answers your question.

I have hardly seen a more empty interview than that.

I wonder if MMORPG.com dudes are not paid by game companies, seeing the empty questions they are asking.

Guys, seriously, get a journalist card, do some internship at CNN and come back  to ask real questions and not just write a story about "i'm a game designer and i'm talking bout my life".

If we dig back the interviews u guys did with other games, then APB, WAR, SWG NGE, hell, even Darkfail would be top notch games. 

CHALLENGE UR INTERVIEWEES or don't call it an interview, call it a blog.

Originally posted by Zeroxin

Originally posted by FURYBlakhart

GW2 looks great - and sounds great.  Ive been an avid MMO fan for many years, dating back to Earth and Beyond; and have played a dozen or so MMO's.

 

I truly hope the devs ideas and VERY optimistic hopes and dreams dontcome crashing down though.

One thing I believe many developers completely and utterly fail to capture and grasp is the nature of much of the modern day MMO community.  Perhaps I am a bit jaded, but sadly there are a lot of very nasty and vicious groups of players out there.  Griefing for some people is the ultimate fun.

Every Game I have played has had more than its share of players and entire guilds that can simply ruin a server or game for everyone else.  I'm sure everyone here who has played MMO's understands this.

You have players and  guilds that will do anything and everything they can to get ahead.  Exploit, cheat, bend other people to their devices.  Griefing can be quite prominent. You have players that no matter how great a game is will bash it, the community, and spoil the fun for others - even while still playing the game and moaning constantly about it.

You simply cannot gauge how far a community of players can twist an MMO.

Instead of asking so many questions about the Dynamic Events system, etc and sounding all enthralled and amazed by it... why isnt MMORPG.com and others asking harder questions?  How is GW2 going to prevent your hardcore "ill win at any cost" players from damaging the concept of the game for casual players?  How fast will they get a handle on exploiting and cheats?  How much in-game support is there going to be to handle the ugly stuff? 

It doesnt seem possible... but I can GUARANTEE you that someone will find a way to grief someone else during these dynamic events.  How is GW2 going to fix that?

 

Could be the most well thought out, designed, and greatest game ever.  But if the Community turns out to be riddled with punks, elitist jerks and the like it will be no better than anything else around.

Watch this http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic

You can skip to the Q&A section or you can watch the whole thing. Its quite interesting but the Q&A section answers your question.

 

I was just about to link that video as well. Lol ^^

It is a good video to see as well even if you watch it from the beginning.  I have been keeping up with it since they started releasing information and I have still found some other things that I did not know.  They mention alot of good stuff in the video so check it out.  Most importantly, they discuss some PVP things as well.  It isn't much, but being a hardcore pvp fanatic like myself, I was jizzing in my pants.

Whoah wait time out. Is this a slip up? So the game IS DONE. given that they started the development in 2007?

Damn you ArenaNet, I want this game on the shelf now! This is torture. >.<'

Originally posted by jvxmtg

 

Colin:

Definitely shows like PAX are the greatest moment for me. We have spent three years building this game and the last few months we put out a ton of marketing material. We said we were going to do a lot and everything we set out to do we put into the game. We did not want to talk about them until they were in the game and they worked. There is a lot of danger to make a lot of bold claims and you don’t follow through on them. We don’t want to do that. We said a lot of stuff and we had a lot of people say we wouldn’t be able to do it. Or something like: yeah, that sounds awesome, but not one is ever going to build that.

 

Whoah wait time out. Is this a slip up? So the game IS DONE. given that they started the development in 2007?

 

Damn you ArenaNet, I want this game on the shelf now! This is torture. >.<'

 

If the game was done it would be out already lol.  Obviously it is not done yet ><

Originally posted by Senjinn

GW2 like everything else these days is a button mashing game. They even took it one step further , now you have to manually dodge as well as hit skill buttons. So forget about having any type of conversation while fighting unless it is on some type of voicechat. Which is a whole nother nightmare in itself. It's never been a great tool for community interaction and even works against it in some ways.

 

Sounds like you've had some bad experiences with voice chat.  Voice chat always made my gaming communities closer.  It's always easier to get to know someone with voice than reading chat.  I'm a great typist, but I'd prefer guilds with voice chat options because I feel more at home that way. :)

Anyways, this game is sounding cooler and cooler every time I read something new about it.  Keep up the good work! :D

Originally posted by Jetrpg

Originally posted by ropenice

Not true that camaraderie exists only with PVP. Everquest you had to group or be in a tight or large guild or you were at a huge disadvantge in leveling. The community was really good and making friends or at least allies happened every time you played.

Of hundreds of people?  DAOC if you were a hib most hibs you fight and die for. You didn't need to even know them other than if they were elf, lurikeen, firblog, etc. Thats the comradery daoc had. Most pve in the game were group efforts as it almost always relested in better exp (unless people were just fighting yellows [even daoc had solo time when you wanted to fight at your own pace]).

Most guilds had over a hundred people that you grouped with and talked to every day. You don't only fight and die for teammates in PVP. PVE Grouping in games that are actually hard, have death penalties, high end raiding in difficult locations, need strategies, etc. gets intense as well, plus the guilds were very tight and spent a lot of time together, not just pick up fights in pvp.

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

 

Originally posted by vesuvias

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

MMOs haven't lost  this broad camaraderie, MMOs never had it outside of PvP content.   Previous MMOs starting from UO were based on pitting players in competetion with each other for resources in PvE (XP, gold etc).  

 

Well Said. We don't really know what the broader implications for this will be yet. This could change things to such a degree to almost be considered a new genre.  Though I suspect when most people actually get used to it this way, they will ask "Why wasn't it always this way?".  

Heh, I think that last sentence is very true.   It's like the zipper, it seems so obvious now but it took a while to get invented.  Truly good ideas are often like that.

 

Originally posted by ropenice

Not true that camaraderie exists only with PVP. Everquest you had to group or be in a tight or large guild or you were at a huge disadvantge in leveling. The community was really good and making friends or at least allies happened every time you played. The main reason the communities stopped being important is because games cater to a larger, more casual player base leading to less challenging mechanics-soloing, no death penalties, easier leveling, etc. If you don't need to interact with community to succeed, then most won't. Hate to say it, but you have to force the grouping so players have to depend on each other. That builds trust and camaraderie. That is why the dynamic events model is so interesting, it encourages grouping/interaction, but doesn't force it, add open world pvp and the community should be strong and active.

I agree that Dynamic Events encourage player interaction without forcing it but your example of the EQ-style groups and guilds is exactly what GW2 is trying to avoid.   From  the article:

I think if you look at MMOs the really frustrating thing is that I am playing this game online with thousands of people and I don’t interact with hardly any of them. Maybe with the people on my friends list or in my guild and that’s it.  In old school MMOs you didn’t want other players around you because they were kill stealing from you or they would get in the way of the stuff I was trying to do. That can drive a player nuts.

GW2 is trying to make a game where you're not limited to only wanting to interact with the few dozen (or less) people in your guild, but everyone on the server.     This is a completely different level than anything that could be attained in EQ or any other previous MMO, if ArenaNet can pull it off.

Old-school guild players always accuse casual gameplay of letting people play a solo game when it's supposed to be a MASSIVELY Multiplayer game.   It's time to throw that tired old argument back into their faces.  What's so MASSIVE about only wanting to interact with your guildmates when they only make up a tiny fraction of the server population?

GW2 seems to be aiming to create a server-wide community that is based not only on just those players who want to be nice but actual game mechanics that support real player cooperation.

I was originally pointing out how the interview implied that this was something old-school MMOs had lost when in fact they never had something on this level simply because of their instrinc game mechancs.    Heck, the orignal interview question seems to say that guild groups are responsible for the loss of the very camaraderie you talk about.    I would agree with you that what camaraderie (in its limited fashion)  that there has been in previous MMOs was the result of EQ-style guilds.

But ArenaNet has decided that they can make a game that can do far better than that. 

i agree, GW2 is trying something completely new and I'm very optimistic that it will take mmo's to a new level. I was just pointing out many of the older games had active communities tha Had to work together to achieve goals thats why most guilds were near or over a hundred people (if it was a serious one) and you Had to group with strangers as well, so griefing and other negative behavior was frowned upon, because you needed each other, so it made no sense to burn bridges. Games changed to stop the forced grouping (which i like in some ways), but didnt offer many other reasons to interact in the game mechanics. If GW2 can succeed with this dyn event system it will change how future games are made. In the least it gives a game mechanic to interact in the game besides just talking about movies or comic books over the general chat.

Great ... PVP focus.   I was gonna buy this too.   Not any more.

So which of the new games is going to be smart and actually not do what all the rest are doing?

Originally posted by baalio

Originally posted by ropenice

Not true that camaraderie exists only with PVP. Everquest you had to group or be in a tight or large guild or you were at a huge disadvantge in leveling. The community was really good and making friends or at least allies happened every time you played. The main reason the communities stopped being important is because games cater to a larger, more casual player base leading to less challenging mechanics-soloing, no death penalties, easier leveling, etc. If you don't need to interact with community to succeed, then most won't. Hate to say it, but you have to force the grouping so players have to depend on each other. That builds trust and camaraderie. That is why the dynamic events model is so interesting, it encourages grouping/interaction, but doesn't force it, add open world pvp and the community should be strong and active.

 

There are serious problems with forced grouping to build trust and camaraderie in the current MMO environment, now that they have gone mainstream and there are so many more genes in the pool...

Here are the problems that I see:

1) Many players(won't say most, cause I haven't met most... but most of the ones I have met) are mediocre at best. Back when I used to play WoW I used to take guildies into wailing caverns to teach them how to pull, cause the concept of breaking LOS or of staying at max distance to avoid adds seemed completely foreign to them...

2)Players who don't know... and don't want to know. They are doing something incorrectly(pulling a leroy vs. pulling at a distance, for example), or they are missing something about game mechanics, etc... and they do not want to hear it from anyone. They will even start raging because they perceive you as trying to "tell them how to play their character".

3) Players are self-centered. They will not be team players unless someone forces them to be. IMO this was the downfall of warhammer in NA. Players in europe were hitting the cities and gearing up before players in NA even got to the fortresses. I played on both sides on 4 different servers to max level, and I had RL friends who played on a few more... and the story was always the same. You get a group out in PvP, and no one would listen to the raid leader... Everyone was too busy doing their own thing. Just keeping people together was almost impossible, unless you had a zerg going. This was even more evident in the battlegrounds... "Man, did you see my damage numbers?" "Ummm, we lost..." "Yeah, but did you see my damage numbers?". We had the same thing in WoW... I lost track of how many times we lost our healers to "the bomb" in MC and stuff like that cause people wouldn't listen.

4) Players are picky. They get it into their minds that a group can only be effective if you have classes A, B, E, and G. So if you show up and there is one spot left and you aren't the class they are missing... too bad.

 

 

GW2, from everything I have been able to read about it, is incredible. I read their manifesto and watched their videos, and so far I agree with them 100%. They've taken mechanical steps to eliminate number 4, and they are trying to use gameplay to bring people together and try and establish community. If anyone can do it, it will be them... That being said, there is only so much they can do to overcome human nature.

I played DAOC from beta through to beta 3 of ToA, and while people's nostalgia for what we had in DAOC is real... and what we had in DAOC WAS real... People don't understand why and how we had it. The reason it was there wasn't so much because of what they were or what they built... It was because of WHO we were... When DAOC was out, 100k subscribers was a huge number, and there were only a handfull of MMOs, most of them with less than that. It was a much smaller community than the current environment. There was more of a barrier to entry on those games, with their interfaces, lack of tutorials, etc... And the people who actually made it into the game and stuck with the game mostly knew what they were doing. While making games slicker, more user friendly, and more appealing are always good things... I think that removing the barrier to entry on these games and bringing them wholly mainstream has harmed the player's ability to form communities and to find functional teams.

I agree with most of what you said and in no way am i defending forced grouping. I was happy to see games go more toward missions and content, soloing, some instancing and other new mechanics as the grinding timesink of sitting around waiting for spawns, gear dependence, kill stealing , etc got old, but the teamwork, strategy and relationships made it worth it. Recent games went to far away from the emechanics that encourage socialization. I'm excited to see how GW2's systems works in the game world with hundreds of people running arouind and if it will be enough to get the casual gamers to invest more to the community and be more of a part of it, instead of logging in quickly trying to get xp and logging out, without experiencing the rest. Not putting casual gamers down, I've been one before because of time constraints, but I think they miss out on other aspects of gaming communities, but with GW2 it sounds possible to be on for an hour and still get together and meet many people, succeed in a cool event and not spend more time than they can or want to. I do disagree with the point of so many bad players in guilds or groups, though in pick up groups it is more common, but serious guilds wouldn't keep members that were not willing to learn. If you've planned a raid for hours, took another hour to fight to the right location, etc and then get wiped because someone can't pull a mob or follow orders-they won't be invited back to the next raid. But over all good points and hope to see you in GW2!