Originally posted by aesperus

I think you guys are missing the point of what he's saying.

It's not so much about whether there is, or isn't auto attack, it's the pace of combat. He's saying he doesn't want to stand there waiting to press his 1 button attack skill, and I don't blame him. Having autoattack (or not) isn't really the issue, it's keeping the pace of combat going, and keeping it interesting. If you opt to remove autoattack, then that's fine, but the speed of combat should be sped up accordingly, and there should be more variety to start with than just 1 or 2 attack skills.

That is a good point, a good combat system will help, i think this is something that AoC did pretty well, and given that so many of the classes have lightsabres, it wouldnt be a bad thing to have directional attacks etc...so while there might only be a couple of 'special' attacks, making 'normal' attacks more 'tactical' would make things more interesting than just some kind of random circle strafing..

Originally posted by MikeB

Originally posted by Renkaiden

You can't use Sith Lord as a class because "Lord" is a title; not a class. Sorcerer is fine but, yes, Wizard sounds stupid. Yet, I can't think of anything better than Wizard other than "Sage" but that sounds weird, too.

Jedi Knight is a "title" and not a class either. That didn't stop Bioware. Also, I mentioned Sith Lord specifically because almost all of the Jedi classes/subclasses were directly lifted from KOTOR II, including: Sith Marauder, Sith Assassin, Jedi Sentinel, Jedi Guardian, Jedi Consular, and dun-da-dun, Sith Lord appears to be missing, replaced by "Sith Sorcerer".

 I prefer sith lord, over sith sorcerer.

I feel compelled to play the scoundrel.  Stealth healer? Yes please.

Originally posted by sungodra

Originally posted by MikeB

Originally posted by Renkaiden

You can't use Sith Lord as a class because "Lord" is a title; not a class. Sorcerer is fine but, yes, Wizard sounds stupid. Yet, I can't think of anything better than Wizard other than "Sage" but that sounds weird, too.

Jedi Knight is a "title" and not a class either. That didn't stop Bioware. Also, I mentioned Sith Lord specifically because almost all of the Jedi classes/subclasses were directly lifted from KOTOR II, including: Sith Marauder, Sith Assassin, Jedi Sentinel, Jedi Guardian, Jedi Consular, and dun-da-dun, Sith Lord appears to be missing, replaced by "Sith Sorcerer".

 I prefer sith lord, over sith sorcerer.

wizard and sorcerer do seem to be out of place, definitely not iconic, or 'starwarsy' or whatever you call it, i can't see them keeping those names, tbh, i would have thought they could have come up with something more in keeping with the genre, even if sith lord etc, was not something they wanted to use.

Sith Lord and Jedi Master would've been good as advanced class names, or Jedi Magister. Sith sorcerer is a fitting name also according to the SW lore, but I hope they end up using another name instead of Jedi Wizard.

Also, Jedi Shadow is a peculair combination: it makes me think of some kind of Jedi covert operative, or someone standing on the line between Dark Side and Light Side of the Force.

Originally posted by aesperus

I think you guys are missing the point of what he's saying.

It's not so much about whether there is, or isn't auto attack, it's the pace of combat. He's saying he doesn't want to stand there waiting to press his 1 button attack skill, and I don't blame him. Having autoattack (or not) isn't really the issue, it's keeping the pace of combat going, and keeping it interesting. If you opt to remove autoattack, then that's fine, but the speed of combat should be sped up accordingly, and there should be more variety to start with than just 1 or 2 attack skills.

Only way to speed up the basic combat would be to make every kill 1 to 2 shot instead of 2-4 shot that it is now, especially  considering how quickly every class seem to dispose of their enemies.

Also, few low level abilities hardly tells us how complex the combat can be at higher levels - we know each specialization (at level 10?) already has it's own compliment of skills. Most MMORPGs and even standard RPGs consider the first 10% of levels (say 1-10) almost as a turorial to your class, so this is why it is almost customary to only have few skills, but increasing in number as you get past the earliest levels.

It is pointless to try and judge the combat based on few lowbie abilities. Go try almost any RPG and tell me how complex their first 1-5 levels were.

Originally posted by Phry

wizard and sorcerer do seem to be out of place, definitely not iconic, or 'starwarsy' or whatever you call it, i can't see them keeping those names, tbh, i would have thought they could have come up with something more in keeping with the genre, even if sith lord etc, was not something they wanted to use.

Sith sorcerer is actually something you encounter a number of times in the Star Wars universe, see here.

So that one makes sense and is fitting in a way. Jedi wizard is something you don't encounter much in SW lore.

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by Renkaiden

You can't use Sith Lord as a class because "Lord" is a title; not a class. Sorcerer is fine but, yes, Wizard sounds stupid. Yet, I can't think of anything better than Wizard other than "Sage" but that sounds weird, too.

Sorcerer seems fine to me, it doesn't make the bile rise in my throat. But almost anything would be better than "Jedi wizard." I liked your idea for "sage." Maybe "seer" would work too? (Jedi can see the future after all.)

I was also thinking that Jedi Seer would have been better. Wizard just does not sound right.

Originally posted by thexrated

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by Renkaiden

You can't use Sith Lord as a class because "Lord" is a title; not a class. Sorcerer is fine but, yes, Wizard sounds stupid. Yet, I can't think of anything better than Wizard other than "Sage" but that sounds weird, too.

Sorcerer seems fine to me, it doesn't make the bile rise in my throat. But almost anything would be better than "Jedi wizard." I liked your idea for "sage." Maybe "seer" would work too? (Jedi can see the future after all.)

I was also thinking that Jedi Seer would have been better. Wizard just does not sound right.

Jedi Wizard needs to go imo; luckily these things can still change as noted in the fan friday.

90% of voters in a 1500 people poll on the official forums disliked Wizard, so I hope they really reconsider that name.

It just doesn't remind you of Star Wars, and the silly LFG speeches that will come out of this... I can miss them...

Sorceror is fine on the other hand, Sith Sorcery has been established in the Star Wars lore for a long time.

Originally posted by thexrated

Originally posted by aesperus

I think you guys are missing the point of what he's saying.

It's not so much about whether there is, or isn't auto attack, it's the pace of combat. He's saying he doesn't want to stand there waiting to press his 1 button attack skill, and I don't blame him. Having autoattack (or not) isn't really the issue, it's keeping the pace of combat going, and keeping it interesting. If you opt to remove autoattack, then that's fine, but the speed of combat should be sped up accordingly, and there should be more variety to start with than just 1 or 2 attack skills.

Only way to speed up the basic combat would be to make every kill 1 to 2 shot instead of 2-4 shot that it is now, especially  considering how quickly every class seem to dispose of their enemies.

Also, few low level abilities hardly tells us how complex the combat can be at higher levels - we know each specialization (at level 10?) already has it's own compliment of skills. Most MMORPGs and even standard RPGs consider the first 10% of levels (say 1-10) almost as a turorial to your class, so this is why it is almost customary to only have few skills, but increasing in number as you get past the earliest levels.

It is pointless to try and judge the combat based on few lowbie abilities. Go try almost any RPG and tell me how complex their first 1-5 levels were.

 There is no auto-attack and it seems from a very nice write-up from raul on the main site that combat is not like STO at all. He had 45 minutes to play and reached 2 bars below level 4 in his play time. It is a good read with a lot of follow up through the post. But here is the first quote about combat from him:

Gameplay wise the first thing that really surprised me was that combat felt very smooth and right/nice. You don't really notice it until you get to play but it's smooth, you're always busy fighting and not just standing still waiting on or casting skills, even with the 3 abilities I had. I think a large part of this is due to the fact several abilities can be fired while moving. Out of my three combat abilities (blaster pistol burst, wrist rocket, flamethrower) two could be used while moving. So you'd generally run towards a group, shoot your wrist rocket knocking them back and off their feet, while still running towards them you'd be spraying them with blaster fire, then when you're close cover them in fire with your flamethrower. At the same time the AI runs for cover, like they might run back into the building and hide in there, hide behind cover, or just get some more range on you. You're also always fighting multiple enemies at once which does seem to make a lot of difference in gameplay, you're targeting the middle ones for AOE, feel outnumbered, etc.
In short, Combat felt very dynamic and fluent.

So even at level 3 with 3 skills to use it sounds a lot better than STO. Ofc most games are better than STO ground combat, but that is another story.

 Edit: The STO remark was for Sebral, I was thinking of that post as well when I quoted this.

Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

Originally posted by thexrated

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by Renkaiden

You can't use Sith Lord as a class because "Lord" is a title; not a class. Sorcerer is fine but, yes, Wizard sounds stupid. Yet, I can't think of anything better than Wizard other than "Sage" but that sounds weird, too.

Sorcerer seems fine to me, it doesn't make the bile rise in my throat. But almost anything would be better than "Jedi wizard." I liked your idea for "sage." Maybe "seer" would work too? (Jedi can see the future after all.)

I was also thinking that Jedi Seer would have been better. Wizard just does not sound right.

Jedi Wizard needs to go imo; luckily these things can still change as noted in the fan friday.

90% of voters in a 1500 people poll on the official forums disliked Wizard, so I hope they really reconsider that name.

It just doesn't remind you of Star Wars, and the silly LFG speeches that will come out of this... I can miss them...

 

Sorceror is fine on the other hand, Sith Sorcery has been established in the Star Wars lore for a long time.

Link to the poll please? :)

Yeah, I think Sith sorcerer fits. It seems to fit with the lore to me.

Nah, I wait until they add Jedi Troubadour, so I can sing the Sith to death.

SWTOR at this moment  is the SWTOR KILLER 

Originally posted by Selka

SWTOR at this moment  is the SWTOR KILLER 

 

I've been getting that vibe alot, the more I hear about it, the less I'm looking forward to it. Also, Jedi Wizard? Are you kidding me? That really damn weak. I really hope thats a place holder.

Originally posted by Xondar123

 

Link to the poll please? :)

 

Yeah, I think Sith sorcerer fits. It seems to fit with the lore to me.

Which AC names would you like changed?

Well it's 89.15%... but anyhow.

Jedi Wizard has to go, and i think sith scorcerer is kinda dumb to. The devs would be better off just making up a cool word that has no real meaning outside of star wars, tell us what it means, and go with that. It is better to be original with the name of the class even if the class functionality is not that original.  

Originally posted by Ozmodan

People have to remember, Bioware is writing this game for the Wow crowd.  It is by a large margin the biggest pool of MMO players out there, hence Bioware is thinking big.  Personally, I think it will have a chance to challenge Wow.  Wow is getting a bit long in the tooth and if anyone can do it, it is Bioware, especially with the Star Wars IP.  Would not be surprised to see Wow numbers go down after this game is released.

Bioware has been very careful to not do anything that will challenge players, their emphasis is on fun factor.  My only concern with the game is what is there end game going to be?  

 

WoW numbers go down with almost every new MMO that promises to replace it, but then they go back up when expectations fail to be met and those same players go back to WoW. I loved WoW, until they took the challenge of leveling away because players started seeing "grinding" as a tedious necessity to get to end game. If SWTOR is not challenging, it will suck.  In almost all things, the journey is way more exciting then the prize at the end. I can't stand questions about end game and raiding. I want to love every level, and feel like I actually earned the next one. Raiding is the worst thing about WoW.

Cataclysm will not tank, it is brilliant. Two new starting areas, two new races, and an event that will change the whole face of Azeroth and allow flying mounts in virtually all areas...this will please the masses.  As far as end game, a balance of PVP/PVE is likely, I mean what else is there? Oh yeah, Bioware said that every class will have it's own unique storyline, meaning there will plenty more to experience, as long as you don't just try to bust out a max level healer or tank so you can fill whatever role is needed. 

Oh, I hope they don't make the second mistake Blizzard made by giving xp in the BG's and seperating the twinks. I know a lot won't share that opinion, but Blizzard could have had me as a life long paying customer if I could have kept owning fools in the 39 bg's.

Bioware, PVP at level one like WAR please, but no, you do not have to give me levels for that, it should be something to do on the side. blah blah blah my stupid opinions are getting too stale to keep typing.

Originally posted by MikeB

Originally posted by Renkaiden

You can't use Sith Lord as a class because "Lord" is a title; not a class. Sorcerer is fine but, yes, Wizard sounds stupid. Yet, I can't think of anything better than Wizard other than "Sage" but that sounds weird, too.

Jedi Knight is a "title" and not a class either. That didn't stop Bioware. Also, I mentioned Sith Lord specifically because almost all of the Jedi classes/subclasses were directly lifted from KOTOR II, including: Sith Marauder, Sith Assassin, Jedi Sentinel, Jedi Guardian, Jedi Consular, and dun-da-dun, Sith Lord appears to be missing, replaced by "Sith Sorcerer".

Ideally, I'd have liked to see the Jedi/Sith class names break down like this:

Jedi (instead of Jedi Knight)

• Jedi Guardian (tank)
• Jedi Weapon Master (dps)

 

Jedi Consular

• Jedi Watchmen or Jedi Shadow. While Jedi Shadows do exist in the lore, they only made a brief appearance in one of the KOTOR comics. Watchmen can cloak themselves in the Force, but are a bit more familiar, they also sound cooler than the generic "Jedi Shadow".
• Jedi Master. D'uh. How did Jedi Wizard take the place of this iconic name? It fits, it works, and it's not awkward.

Sith (just Sith)

• Sith Warrior (tank)
• Sith Marauder (dps)

Sith Inquisitor

• Sith Assassin (leave as is)
• Sith Lord (replace Sorcerer).

 

The only real problem I have with using titles straight out of lore (like Knight or Master) is that the classes so far desribed do not fit with those titles. Not all Masters (like you suggest using) acted like the Consular class and not all Sith Lords had tons of lightning abilities like the Inquistors do.

Yes, Knight should probably be changed, too, but Sorcerers are already well establised in lore like others have mentioned on here.

If BW was to change any of the advanced class titles, though, it has to be Wizard. Its just flat out a mistake.

I don't like the fact they announced that Flashpoints will be repeatable.

I really do not like how restrictive the classes are in terms of weapons, I was wanting to play a wookie trooper and use a vibroblade like the soldier class in the first kotor. The oh you have to dual weild if your this, single sword weild here, blade staff hear kinda just irks me. I wanted my characters to be mine not cookie cuter here this weapon is for x class thing. Which in my mind had ruined mmo's across the board since you can end up spending days killing things and get just 1 weapon or item that is for you.

Also Wizard and Sorcorer kinda work. Wizard means simply wise one, while Sorcorers are associated with people who weild dark powers to control others and rule without mercy. Yes you can call it a tack on but some study of the words used outside of gameing context will help understand the logic.