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News & Features Discussion  » Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online: Games Day Report

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  SBFord

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 12114

 
OP  8/23/10 11:11:18 AM#1

This past weekend, MMORPG.com's Garrett Fuller had the opportunity to head to Games Day in Baltimore, Maryland. During his time at the event, Garrett checked out some of the stuff Games Workshop has in store for fans. Included in the visit was a look at the next Warhammer Online update and the Warhammer 40,000: Dark Millenium Online trailer.

This past weekend MMORPG.com went down to Games Day to check out some of the Games Workshop goodies that are coming out. Warhammer Online was there showing off its latest patch which is heavy on the Skaven. As well as THQ showing some Dawn of War II goodness and the new trailer for Warhammer 40,000: Dark Millenium. If any of you have been in a bubble for the last six months; that is the Warhammer 40,000 MMO. Overall the day had some good things to offer and gave us some insight into why table top games are making a come back.

Read more of the Games Day Report.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  Dreawing

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/07
Posts: 361

8/23/10 12:09:17 PM#2

it is great that mythic started to listen but they should go up to THQ and be like. HEY!! DONT GO TWO FACTIONS!! TRUST ME!!!!

I wont mind 2 factions at all if it was Eldar and imperial vs chaos and orkz though they gotta do it right. Dont want to see orkz in a chaos city just selling goods. Also Space marines on a craftworld going . "Hey,I am on a dying race craftworld and we are a really intolerant race towards them. :D no no no plz.

 

no adding necrons to destro, no tau to order, no tyranids to destro plz!.

maby have a lil ally then once it get to a climax then have a big free for all :D.

 

Good read though :D

  Lumanil

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/09
Posts: 112

8/23/10 1:43:42 PM#3

IF they add only two factions, i doubt tyranids would be a playable race, but rather mobs.

  Vosper

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/05
Posts: 57

8/23/10 2:12:06 PM#4

I'd expect Tyranids to be a mob, not faction/playable.  Their style seems to suit it more than rolling a Hormagaunt "class" does... shrug.

  Nephaerius

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1376

8/23/10 2:12:31 PM#5

They already announced in a recent interview that there would definitively be only 2 factions.  They stated that Games Workshop is totally cool with it and for some unknown reason it works well with the game setting.

Here's the link: http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/warhammer40000darkmilleniumonline/interviews.html

"Strategy Informer: I assume you're going to divide up the playable races by factions? They only thing is, apart from ones like Imperial guard and Space Marines who can stick together, not all of the other races fit neatly into 'factions'. The Eldar, the Tau, the Necrons, Tyranids Chaos... had to generalise them. Are you going to try sticking with the traditional two factions or branch out to more?

Tim Campbell: We're going to have two overall factions in the game, and all of the playable races are going to fit into one or the other.

There are compelling reasons why that works in this situation and our game, and Games Workshops are completely on board with it so we're not doing anything that violates the IP or the fiction – the details though will be revealed in the near future"

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  Yuui

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/07
Posts: 722

8/23/10 2:17:12 PM#6


Originally posted by Nephaerius
They already announced in a recent interview that there would definitively be only 2 factions.  They stated that Games Workshop is totally cool with it and for some unknown reason it works well with the game setting.
Here's the link: http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/warhammer40000darkmilleniumonline/interviews.html


temporary alliance of some sort, mos tlikely, with story reason;.

It happened in canon a few times.

# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON

  Silverwatch

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/04
Posts: 233

8/23/10 3:25:05 PM#7

I know they are doing the 2 faction system but tbh if they play this one like warhammer online then it will fail and ruin the best IP ever. I hope they have different builds for the space marine, i predict they will use him as the 'tank' class for the Imperium of Man but they are so much more, its frustrating when companies make mistakes when they dont listen to the seasoned mmo player base.

Currently playing : Darkfall
Character name : Aeola Anara
Played: Almost every P2P MMO you can get your hands on, notably:
Daoc, SWG, LOTRO, WAR, AoC + Dozens more

  Zarest

Novice Member

Joined: 4/13/09
Posts: 9

8/23/10 5:01:41 PM#8

Yeah, table top games are making a comeback because video games these days are so shitty.  In reality though, both are a pretty dead medium.  Table top gaming died years ago, and video games are pretty much dead these days as well.  Things dont look good for either medium, and I kinda doubt they're ever gonna make a real comeback =/.

  BigJohnny

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/09
Posts: 42

8/23/10 5:19:15 PM#9

Am I the only one who's bothered that while 2 factions fit the lore, it does not fit the RvR MMO genre, and yet they're doing it anyway?

I can see it making sense if it was never tried before, like what they did with WAR. But now that we've seen WAR, shouldn't a lesson be learned here? I can't believe that the devs for 40k are not aware of WAR. And that being the case, what's their reasoning behind 2 factions? Why 2 factions didn't work for WAR, but will work for 40k? I don't get it.

  Frostbite05

Novice Member

Joined: 9/15/08
Posts: 1919

8/23/10 6:06:10 PM#10

WAR didn't fail because of it had only 2 factions. It failed because the dev team didn't plan ahead and implemented an endgame that would crash the server and it took months just to get that fixed. The basic mechanics of the game played like they were in alpha. I still blame EA for making them rush the game out a year before they wanted to.

  Gyrus

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/07
Posts: 2232

8/23/10 7:28:52 PM#11
Originally posted by BigJohnny

...

 I can't believe that the devs for 40k are not aware of WAR. And that being the case, what's their reasoning behind 2 factions? ...

Because they are lazy?  Lack talent?  Lack vision?  Don't really care if the game fails in the long term so long as they make a profit on box sales and a couple of months subscription before players drop out?

Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  Ramael

Tipster

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 92

8/23/10 7:35:14 PM#12

I suppose I should repost this... Again. 

"Just to contribute a little bit, the 8th edition rulebook of Warhammer Fantasy Battles includes Allied Army rules (basically, rules to further facilitate team games) that splits the playable armies into Order and Destruction. Those are:

Order: High Elves, Dwarfs, Wood Elves, the Empire, Bretonnia, and Lizardmen.

Destruction: Chaos (Including Warriors of, Daemons of, and Beastmen), Skaven, Dark Elves, Vampire Counts, and Orcs and Goblins.

That said, there are two armies who, due to either a mercenary nature (Ogre Kingdoms), or simply being far-removed and somewhat insular (Tomb Kings of Khemri), simply get classed as Non-Aligned.

Neither Order nor Destruction are identified as a unified front, but more point towards the general inclinations and behaviors of the respective races which lend themselves to getting along, though only when the situation renders such an alliance necessary.

 

Now, of course, in 40k, the lines are a bit broader due to the inherent and religiously-fervent racism of the Imperium. However, as much as they may hate the Eldar and the Tau, they would still sooner fight along-side them than allow Chaos to gain so much as an inch (though usually the Eldar simply don't give them an opportunity to refuse). Mechanics aside (since I assume we're talking lore here), alliances of convenience have cropped up every now and again in lore, particularly when Abaddon or Ghazghkull get froggy. Radical Inquisitors have been known to accept help from Eldar and other sources (being staunch pragmatists, to the point of being unhealthy). So long as the in-game lore doesn't make it sound too buddy-buddy, I personally can deal."

 

In summation: Order vs. Destruction is a Games Workshop construct used to facilitate team games of their tabletop.

  BigJohnny

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/09
Posts: 42

8/23/10 7:49:44 PM#13
Originally posted by Ramael

In summation: Order vs. Destruction is a Games Workshop construct used to facilitate team games of their tabletop.

I understand that, I totally do. But the original question remains:

Why are they going with that for the MMO?

While it certainly works lore-wise, it could also work lore-wise to have more than 2 factions. And since we're not talking about another 40k table-top game here, it should be considered. They're translating an IP between two different mediums, Tabletop and MMO-Video-Game. Those two mediums behave differently, and one of those differences is that in an RvR game, 2 factions is too limiting to the point of ruining the game.

So even if the lore says it's ok, why do it? Or even if you want to ignore that question, and assume that GW is making them do 2 factions, the question then becomes "how are they going to make it work this time?"

  Gyrus

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/07
Posts: 2232

8/23/10 7:51:00 PM#14
Originally posted by Ramael

I suppose I should repost this... Again. 

"Just to contribute a little bit, the 8th edition rulebook of Warhammer Fantasy Battles includes Allied Army rules (basically, rules to further facilitate team games) that splits the playable armies into Order and Destruction. Those are:

Order: High Elves, Dwarfs, Wood Elves, the Empire, Bretonnia, and Lizardmen.

Destruction: Chaos (Including Warriors of, Daemons of, and Beastmen), Skaven, Dark Elves, Vampire Counts, and Orcs and Goblins.

...

 

Now, of course, in 40k, the lines are a bit broader due to the inherent and religiously-fervent racism of the Imperium. However, as much as they may hate the Eldar and the Tau, they would still sooner fight along-side them than allow Chaos to gain so much as an inch ... Mechanics aside (since I assume we're talking lore here), alliances of convenience have cropped up every now and again in lore, particularly when Abaddon or Ghazghkull get froggy. Radical Inquisitors have been known to accept help from Eldar and other sources (being staunch pragmatists, to the point of being unhealthy). So long as the in-game lore doesn't make it sound too buddy-buddy, I personally can deal."

 

In summation: Order vs. Destruction is a Games Workshop construct used to facilitate team games of their tabletop.

Yes, in Table Top.

So, how long does a Table Top game last?

As you say "alliances of convenience have cropped up every now and again in lore".

The problem is - this won't be temporary - it will be permanent.

If Vigil set up the game to allow temporary alliances they could use that to their advantage to help with game balance.

If (for example) 70% of players chose to play Space Marines at one time they could allow a temporary alliance to form between Chaos, Orc, Dark Eldar and another between Tau and Eldar while leaving the Space Marines on their own... as player populations shifted back to a more even balance they dissolve those alliances.  The obvious advantage to this is that this could be done automatically as a balancing mechanism and done right could even be fun.

But hard coding in two factions doesn't leave a lot of options.  When 70% of your player pop goes 'order' then what do you do?  Your Chaos players are about to get a beating... and what do MMO players do when they get a beating night after night?

Something to do with an option on the "Account Management" page usually.

Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  bensculpt

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/04
Posts: 80

8/23/10 8:12:13 PM#15

my problem w/ 2 faction pvp is all about population disbalance, not so much lore. In war they had all the cool stuff on destruction side, and the good guys had a choice between short ugly fat guys, crossdressing elves and humans with frilly clothes, not a big surprise most people preffer destruction hahahaha.

  Ramael

Tipster

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 92

8/23/10 8:12:42 PM#16

My personal opinion on the two vs. multiple factions discussion is truthfully indifferent. However, Games Workshop has been known to be somewhat heavy-handed in the handling of its IP, so their official take on the matter bore mentioning.

A more temporary alliance system would certainly be preferred, with some limitations. The average Space Marine would sooner cut off his own testicles than even consider fighting alongside Chaos, for example, and would likely be executed for doing so (which is precisely the type of reaction the Allied Armies rules are meant to symbolize). From an MMO developer's perspective, it's perhaps easier to keep the playerbase in two camps, even though this does sometimes result in the scenarios you proposed. To a certain extent, it also allows out of game friends to still team up without forcing them to all play one race.

To answer your question, if you'll allow me to be the devil's advocate a moment, a tabletop game lasts anywhere between half an hour to eight hours or beyond, depending on the size of the game. That said, some of the "campaigns" from which the Allied Armies system drew its origins can last many years, in terms of lore.

  Flex1

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/29/06
Posts: 399

“Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot.”
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8/23/10 8:19:44 PM#17

Maybe the 2 factions will be something simple like dividing the races into Order and Chaos.

 

Aside from that matter, isn't anyone else bothered by this recycled use of WoW, ROM, War, Allods, etc art style that from a non-Warhammer player perspective feels wrong? I said this elsewhere but what would make this game stand out is perhaps some Gears of Wars art style, not necesarily cutting edge graphics but something dark, with gore and epic dismemberment in its art, dark ambient tones because no battlefield is vivid and lush and rainbowsy.

 

Of cource thats just me and I have never played any Warhammer.

  mrbizarro

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/16/07
Posts: 14

8/23/10 8:43:39 PM#18

They really watered down the lore for WAR, and I expect THQ/GW will do the same now with 40K. For example, in WAR Malekith and the Orc Warboss are just hanging out in the Chaos capital. Even if they are all "Destruction", they wouldn't be that cozy. I know they cut the Dark Elf and Orc cities, but Malekith and the Warboss should have at least been surrounded by their own armies. Malekith would never leave himself exposed, and only an idiot would let Orcs roam freely in his city.  

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6471

8/23/10 9:05:40 PM#19

Games Workshop should be shot for ruining the IP the way they have handled the MMO development.  I don't know how you guys can interview someone from that company and not take them to task.  

If 40k only has two factions it will just be another disaster just like Warhammer.

Anyone looking forward to 40k needs to take those rose colored glasses off and wake up to the fact they it probably won't be any better than warhammer.

Such a shame too, the IP could really be something great if done right.

  HELLBITCH

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/06
Posts: 89

DIE AND BURN

8/23/10 10:49:09 PM#20
Originally posted by mrbizarro


They really watered down the lore for WAR, and I expect THQ/GW will do the same now with 40K. For example, in WAR Malekith and the Orc Warboss are just hanging out in the Chaos capital. Even if they are all "Destruction", they wouldn't be that cozy. I know they cut the Dark Elf and Orc cities, but Malekith and the Warboss should have at least been surrounded by their own armies. Malekith would never leave himself exposed, and only an idiot would let Orcs roam freely in his city.  

 

you just hit the nail on it's head dude... i shouted a WTF!!!??? when i saw that

666

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