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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » TOR, GW2, FFXIV three massive mmos about to rock the genre or just more games added to the list of games not living up to the hype?

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202 posts found
  J0K3R_3D

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 82

8/13/10 10:09:57 AM#61

I would Say TOR, GW2 and TERA are the only ones that stand a ghosts chance of rockin the genre. FFXIV seems like an updated FFXI and I have yet to see anything impressive with RIFT.

Then again, WAR, AoC, Aion, and even LotRO were supposed to rock the genre too and look how that turned out. So really, no matter how good or revolutionary an MMO looks on websites and videos, it doesnt mean squat. Anyone whose followed MMOs for the last 5 or so years should know that by now.

TOR looks good and is super hyped right now. Id bet it will sell millions around release. But in truth, theyre make a lot of dumb decisions. Starting with the space on rails mini game, and ending with their pets system. And thats just the tip of the iceberg of what little we know so far.

Guild Wars 2? Who know. Im already a bit downed (and even somewhat confused) by their self heal, no MT thing. Are they bringing back that NPC team thing, like TOR's companions (thought not as bad). I hated it, no one really teamed up anymore there after that. I mean the game is F2P so as long as its good it wont really matter and thats why I think the first one did so well. I would definitely not have subscribed to GW1.

TERA, ill admit, is my favorite so far. But even that can fail. First of all there is so much false "korean grinder" ignorance going around it makes me want to pull my hair out. But other than that there are many things they can do wrong. Is the political system theyre implementing good? Will the player warm up to it or reject it? Same with the combat, AoC looked like it had great combat to me, then you play it and it doesnt feel right. TERA's is different but well, no one knows the future ... is what ive just wasted 5 paragraphs trying to say, lol.

  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

8/13/10 10:13:25 AM#62

I am hoping for the best, but I expect all these titles to turn into WoW clones in beta, or shortly after release.

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7266

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

8/13/10 10:15:06 AM#63
Originally posted by sungodra
Originally posted by razerblade29
Originally posted by joejccva

 


Originally posted by Zeroxin


Originally posted by sungodra


Originally posted by osraglonas

FFXIV : will fail miserably  , why ? coze it is too much console based
not a single veteran mmo player wants to play with aa controller in his hand ( sure you can play whit mouse and keyboard ) but those controls are horrid !!!!!!!!!!
 
TOR : i think will have his fanbased players , beside that nothing special :)
GW2 : Will deliver , GW1 concept was a huge success ( and still is )
           Arenanet are good at this and i am very sure it will succeed
 
Ps : GW2 is not in early stage of development , i know from a good source it actually is ready to play
        they are just tweaking out some bits and decide when the best time it is to bring it out
 
pps : just my 2 cents :)



 Gw1 concept is a huge success??? You cannot be serious. That wasn't even an MMO.  It was more like that failed game phatasy star universe.
People want to play with OTHER people , not hang out in the city and find a group then go into the world with only your group in an instanced world.



6 million people disagree with you.

 

6 million people that played the game for free you mean? k :)

People love things that are free.

just because it didnt have a montly sub doesnt mean it wasnt an mmo, and just becausea game does have a monthly sub doenst make it an mmo. Your logic is flawed.

Anyway the thing i hated about guild wars 1 the most was that u couldnt jump, yeah thats right that was its biggest flaw.

 No, it's not an mmo because when you go out in the world you are by yourself. That is why it's not an MMO.

Wow

 

6 Million people didn't buy Guild Wars 1.  Guild Wars 1 sold 6 million BOXES which included ALL EXPANSIONS.  You heard that right,  that means if you bought all of the expansions,  you count for 4 of those sales right there.  Counting expansions and additional stand alone expansion content as part of total sales of GW1 is a cop out to say the least.  The game was good, but it wasn't great.  The Phantasy Star games were subscription based, but its much different when you base sales on boxes alone and not retention.

 

Think about what numbers would be released if Blizzard counted just the boxes sold for WoW and all expansions sold for the game.  What about if EQ2 or FF11 counted only box sales on their expansions.    Even SWG would have millions of copies sold if they only counted box sales and not subscriptions.

 

The combat in guild wars is alright, but its not great.  It gets old very fast, and they haven't changed the combat nearly at all for GW2.  Sure you can switch around skills, but the flow of combat doesn't change, and your skills are best when they compliment eachother so its tough to have a varied build that works well.   At least it was when I played years ago.

 

Needless to say I'll still play GW2,  I know that the combat won't change drastically in GW2, but it does have some entertainment value.  

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


  Morcotulcon

Novice Member

Joined: 4/28/10
Posts: 261

8/13/10 10:16:28 AM#64
Originally posted by sungodra
Originally posted by Grotar89
Originally posted by sungodra

GW2 :Wouldn't be surprised at all if it was like GW1 with better graphics.

You obviously dont have idea what you are talking about..........

 They say what they want to get people to buy the game. Prove to me otherwise that this is no different from GW1 other than the fact the dev team may have said they are changing it around.

So, you're saying that all the infos and gameplay footage they gave us is a lie??? I say this because of 2 things:

1- All the info they gave us indicates that a lot fo GW2 is different from GW1, adding a lot of innovation in MMO genre that any other game has done untill now. What you said implies that they are lying -.-";

2- If it's a lie, how the hell could they put gameplay footage in the videos they showed?? and how the hell could they make 2 demos to play (1 this week and 1 in the beguining of September) with the things they already said the game will have???

If you see all the info and articles about GW2 you have half the proves you want. If you want more, just wait for the reviews of the demos to see if they deliver or not.

A.net already said that everything, every info they publish about the game is already implemented, because they don't wanna talk about things they don't have sure it will be in the game. There are already 2 really important questions asked in interviews for which they answered this, saying they wouldn't talk about those asked things untill they were implemented in the game.

It's useless to say that im hyped for GW2 of course. lol But it's the first time i really am this hyped for a game, because I know the efficiency of A.net, I already have trust in their work from GW1 and they never abandon players after releasing the game, and they still deliver to that trust and expected efficiency with every thing they've done and said since the early ages of GW2. As I said before in other threads, they know how to work.

 

About the hype for TOR and FF....

Well, I lost most my interest in TOR some months ago but i still think they can deliver some of their ideas, but I think it won't be as good as people assume in playing the game. It's true, IMHO, that beeing Star Wars and beeing developed by Bioware might be giving the players too much of a hype. Just have to wait and see if the game is good or not (although I never play P2P games).

About FF.... I don't play FF since FF-X and I don't know nothing about the game, except that it's going to be Online and they changed a tiny bit the combat (but really not much). I can't have an opinion about it.

  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

8/13/10 10:17:57 AM#65
Originally posted by sungodra
Originally posted by razerblade29
Originally posted by joejccva

 


Originally posted by Zeroxin


Originally posted by sungodra


Originally posted by osraglonas

FFXIV : will fail miserably  , why ? coze it is too much console based
not a single veteran mmo player wants to play with aa controller in his hand ( sure you can play whit mouse and keyboard ) but those controls are horrid !!!!!!!!!!
 
TOR : i think will have his fanbased players , beside that nothing special :)
GW2 : Will deliver , GW1 concept was a huge success ( and still is )
           Arenanet are good at this and i am very sure it will succeed
 
Ps : GW2 is not in early stage of development , i know from a good source it actually is ready to play
        they are just tweaking out some bits and decide when the best time it is to bring it out
 
pps : just my 2 cents :)



 Gw1 concept is a huge success??? You cannot be serious. That wasn't even an MMO.  It was more like that failed game phatasy star universe.
People want to play with OTHER people , not hang out in the city and find a group then go into the world with only your group in an instanced world.



6 million people disagree with you.

 

6 million people that played the game for free you mean? k :)

People love things that are free.

just because it didnt have a montly sub doesnt mean it wasnt an mmo, and just becausea game does have a monthly sub doenst make it an mmo. Your logic is flawed.

Anyway the thing i hated about guild wars 1 the most was that u couldnt jump, yeah thats right that was its biggest flaw.

 No, it's not an mmo because when you go out in the world you are by yourself. That is why it's not an MMO.

Give me a break. 90% of players play that way even if there is open worlds for you to group in. You may see other players out in the world soloing, but your interaction with them is likely limited to buffs, or maybe saving them from death once, and selling them stuff in the Auction House.

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  arieste

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3310

8/13/10 10:18:55 AM#66
Originally posted by Palebane

I am hoping for the best, but I expect all these titles to turn into WoW clones in beta, or shortly after release.

I fully expect they are clones (of the basic EQ2/WoW template) already, no need to wait.  I am just hoping they are good clones that have one or two new and interesting things.  Waiting on "brilliant new and innovative" MMORPG may take a decade, so i've lowered my standards to "good quality clone with improved graphics and some new features".  

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  Zeroxin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 2516

My words are not here to sway you,they are here to make you understand.

8/13/10 10:20:01 AM#67
Originally posted by maskedweasel
 

Wow

 

6 Million people didn't buy Guild Wars 1.  Guild Wars 1 sold 6 million BOXES which included ALL EXPANSIONS.  You heard that right,  that means if you bought all of the expansions,  you count for 4 of those sales right there.  Counting expansions and additional stand alone expansion content as part of total sales of GW1 is a cop out to say the least.  The game was good, but it wasn't great.  The Phantasy Star games were subscription based, but its much different when you base sales on boxes alone and not retention.

 

Think about what numbers would be released if Blizzard counted just the boxes sold for WoW and all expansions sold for the game.  What about if EQ2 or FF11 counted only box sales on their expansions.    Even SWG would have millions of copies sold if they only counted box sales and not subscriptions.

 

The combat in guild wars is alright, but its not great.  It gets old very fast, and they haven't changed the combat nearly at all for GW2.  Sure you can switch around skills, but the flow of combat doesn't change, and your skills are best when they compliment eachother so its tough to have a varied build that works well.   At least it was when I played years ago.

 

Needless to say I'll still play GW2,  I know that the combat won't change drastically in GW2, but it does have some entertainment value.  

We could say 1.5 million people bought the intial box and the campaigns +the expac. Still a success.

The combat doesn't get old for those in PvP and sometimes PvE, especially when you understand how it works and continue to strive for that cool new innovative build.

This is not a game.

  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

8/13/10 10:22:58 AM#68
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by Palebane

I am hoping for the best, but I expect all these titles to turn into WoW clones in beta, or shortly after release.

I fully expect they are clones (of the basic EQ2/WoW template) already, no need to wait.  I am just hoping they are good clones that have one or two new and interesting things.  Waiting on "brilliant new and innovative" MMORPG may take a decade, so i've lowered my standards to "good quality clone with improved graphics and some new features".  

I hear ya. Thank goodness there are lots of great single player and multiplayer (besides MMO) games out right now.

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  User Deleted
8/13/10 10:23:36 AM#69

FFXIV is definitely just hype. Same game different number.

  Frostbite05

Novice Member

Joined: 9/15/08
Posts: 1919

8/13/10 10:24:42 AM#70

GW2 will live up to the hype just like the first one ToR im pretty sure will please everyone but FF will probably just tick alot of people off.

  sungodra

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/10
Posts: 1410

8/13/10 10:31:47 AM#71
Originally posted by Morcotulcon
Originally posted by sungodra
Originally posted by Grotar89
Originally posted by sungodra

GW2 :Wouldn't be surprised at all if it was like GW1 with better graphics.

You obviously dont have idea what you are talking about..........

 They say what they want to get people to buy the game. Prove to me otherwise that this is no different from GW1 other than the fact the dev team may have said they are changing it around.

So, you're saying that all the infos and gameplay footage they gave us is a lie??? I say this because of 2 things:

1- All the info they gave us indicates that a lot fo GW2 is different from GW1, adding a lot of innovation in MMO genre that any other game has done untill now. What you said implies that they are lying -.-";

2- If it's a lie, how the hell could they put gameplay footage in the videos they showed?? and how the hell could they make 2 demos to play (1 this week and 1 in the beguining of September) with the things they already said the game will have???

If you see all the info and articles about GW2 you have half the proves you want. If you want more, just wait for the reviews of the demos to see if they deliver or not.

A.net already said that everything, every info they publish about the game is already implemented, because they don't wanna talk about things they don't have sure it will be in the game. There are already 2 really important questions asked in interviews for which they answered this, saying they wouldn't talk about those asked things untill they were implemented in the game.

It's useless to say that im hyped for GW2 of course. lol But it's the first time i really am this hyped for a game, because I know the efficiency of A.net, I already have trust in their work from GW1 and they never abandon players after releasing the game, and they still deliver to that trust and expected efficiency with every thing they've done and said since the early ages of GW2. As I said before in other threads, they know how to work.

 

About the hype for TOR and FF....

Well, I lost most my interest in TOR some months ago but i still think they can deliver some of their ideas, but I think it won't be as good as people assume in playing the game. It's true, IMHO, that beeing Star Wars and beeing developed by Bioware might be giving the players too much of a hype. Just have to wait and see if the game is good or not (although I never play P2P games).

About FF.... I don't play FF since FF-X and I don't know nothing about the game, except that it's going to be Online and they changed a tiny bit the combat (but really not much). I can't have an opinion about it.

 If there is a demo, is it open to the public? Where can I get a chance to play this "epic and mmo changing game"?

 

Yes, I believe they do hype the game up to get people to buy it. They say things that are vague and can be easily misinterpreted.  I haven't played the game and you probably haven't either, so I will wait until I can see it to believe it.


"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"

  sungodra

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/10
Posts: 1410

8/13/10 10:33:08 AM#72
Originally posted by Frostbite05

GW2 will live up to the hype just like the first one ToR im pretty sure will please everyone but FF will probably just tick alot of people off.

 I'm thinking FF14 wont really be that good. Still I am pre ordering the game this week.  I need something graphically demanding to test my machine on and FF14 seems to be right up that alley.


"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"

  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7266

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

8/13/10 10:33:15 AM#73
Originally posted by Zeroxin
Originally posted by maskedweasel
 

Wow

 

6 Million people didn't buy Guild Wars 1.  Guild Wars 1 sold 6 million BOXES which included ALL EXPANSIONS.  You heard that right,  that means if you bought all of the expansions,  you count for 4 of those sales right there.  Counting expansions and additional stand alone expansion content as part of total sales of GW1 is a cop out to say the least.  The game was good, but it wasn't great.  The Phantasy Star games were subscription based, but its much different when you base sales on boxes alone and not retention.

 

Think about what numbers would be released if Blizzard counted just the boxes sold for WoW and all expansions sold for the game.  What about if EQ2 or FF11 counted only box sales on their expansions.    Even SWG would have millions of copies sold if they only counted box sales and not subscriptions.

 

The combat in guild wars is alright, but its not great.  It gets old very fast, and they haven't changed the combat nearly at all for GW2.  Sure you can switch around skills, but the flow of combat doesn't change, and your skills are best when they compliment eachother so its tough to have a varied build that works well.   At least it was when I played years ago.

 

Needless to say I'll still play GW2,  I know that the combat won't change drastically in GW2, but it does have some entertainment value.  

We could say 1.5 million people bought the intial box and the campaigns +the expac. Still a success.

The combat doesn't get old for those in PvP and sometimes PvE, especially when you understand how it works and continue to strive for that cool new innovative build.

Yes, that would be the least amount of people if all xpacs were purchased by all players,  but if you take into account that AOC and WAR sold 1 million on launch, if you want to go strictly with players who bought the game you could make the case that the same number of players for AOC and WAR  could equate to the lowest potential customer base for guild wars, making Guild Wars on par with mediocre P2P games.  Thats just if you want to argue the point,  I don't think everyone bought all the xpacs though,  I think many people bought prophecies or a standalone xpac but didn't continue to buy expansions.

 

I also don't know if that accounts for bundle packs  which I really wouldn't count if I were Anet,  but I guess its all the same to them. 

 

As for the combat,  I did play PvP but its been a long time.  Striving to find new builds is great but there were also FOTM builds and build guides just like on all other games.  The only difference was,  you had more options, but less choices, meaning a wider skill pool but less skills at the same time.

 

I think its all a matter of preference though,  I enjoyed my time way back when for GW,  but it couldn't keep my interest.  I still went through and bought all the Xpacs though.  

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


  KingKong007

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/01/10
Posts: 157

8/13/10 10:45:27 AM#74

Looking through the last posts, you already see it coming (repeat of the same old 5 year history).

Everyone defends his new favorite with a vengeance.

 

Another result is they'll cannibalize each other's user base. First published first swallowed.

In the end everyone will play 8 year old WOW, post about EVE, how they are bored and hate Blizzard with this industry.

Any bets? it's a sure winning statement. Odds are much larger than that "rock" theory...

 

  Ceridith

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/09
Posts: 3001

The more you hype an upcoming game in your mind, the more it will fail to meet your expectations.

8/13/10 10:47:11 AM#75

Remember Vanguard, Warhammer, and AoC?

I think I'll reserve judgement of the latest wave of MMOs until they're actually released.

  Zeroxin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 2516

My words are not here to sway you,they are here to make you understand.

8/13/10 10:54:18 AM#76
Originally posted by sungodra
.....

 If there is a demo, is it open to the public? Where can I get a chance to play this "epic and mmo changing game"?

 

Yes, I believe they do hype the game up to get people to buy it. They say things that are vague and can be easily misinterpreted.  I haven't played the game and you probably haven't either, so I will wait until I can see it to believe it.

You can play the game at GC(next week) or at PAX (in the next 3 weeks).

@ Masked Weasel

I take it as; if the developer is aiming for this and they succeed then they have succeeded but if they are aiming for that and they fail then they've failed. An example is; If AoC wants to gain and retain 1 million customers and they don't then they've failed but if they were aiming for initial box sales and enough players to keep the game lively then they may have a success on their hands. GW1 was aiming for box sales as well as a good game to keep more people buying, and the fact that 1.5million people bought all 3 campaigns and 1 expac(statistically) is definitely noteworthy. It just means they were able to retain the amount of people who absolutely loved the game.

The main reason why I stopped playing GW1 for some time is because of the announcement of GW2. If they didn't announce GW2 I think many people would still be playing it today and maybe there would be more box sales.

This is not a game.

  dinams

Novice Member

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 1403

8/13/10 10:55:09 AM#77

Impressive how this kind of topics becomes "what mmo is better?" threads and calls for a immense amount of trolls lol

@Original Question

Feelings is that they will be succesful

"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence

  UOlover

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/03/10
Posts: 332

8/13/10 11:00:20 AM#78

Remember Horizons, Shadowbane, Matrix Online, Asheron's Call 2, Hero's Journey, Neocron, Tabula Rasa. I was nice by not naming more.

  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7266

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

8/13/10 11:02:10 AM#79
Originally posted by Zeroxin
Originally posted by sungodra
.....

 If there is a demo, is it open to the public? Where can I get a chance to play this "epic and mmo changing game"?

 

Yes, I believe they do hype the game up to get people to buy it. They say things that are vague and can be easily misinterpreted.  I haven't played the game and you probably haven't either, so I will wait until I can see it to believe it.

You can play the game at GC(next week) or at PAX (in the next 3 weeks).

@ Masked Weasel

I take it as; if the developer is aiming for this and they succeed then they have succeeded but if they are aiming for that and they fail then they've failed. An example is; If AoC wants to gain and retain 1 million customers and they don't then they've failed but if they were aiming for initial box sales and enough players to keep the game lively then they may have a success on their hands. GW1 was aiming for box sales as well as a good game to keep more people buying, and the fact that 1.5million people bought all 3 campaigns and 1 expac(statistically) is definitely noteworthy. It just means they were able to retain the amount of people who absolutely loved the game.

The main reason why I stopped playing GW1 for some time is because of the announcement of GW2. If they didn't announce GW2 I think many people would still be playing it today and maybe there would be more box sales.

I can agree with that.  I think in regards to the OP, its apparent not everyone will like every game,  and each of these games listed represents a particular play style that appeals to its own market.  I don't think its about whats better,  or what will be the best out of the three.  What it ends up being is, will someone finally be able to find a game they enjoy playing?  I think that these titles will be polished enough,  and each will have enough appeal to certain players to warrant a resurgence in MMO popularity (aside from WoW).

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


  sungodra

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/10
Posts: 1410

8/13/10 11:04:07 AM#80
Originally posted by UOlover

Remember Horizons, Shadowbane, Matrix Online, Asheron's Call 2, Hero's Journey, Neocron, Tabula Rasa. I was nice by not naming more.

 The fact that there are so many MMO's out and all the generic f2p MMO's is what is killing this Genre. Well, it is certainly splitting up communities, more options and choices is definately better, but you wont never see any huge influx of players in these games because they have spread themselves thin.


"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"

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