I really agree with you what you are saying about having a meaningful relationship with players in the game. When I play Ryzom we still have this kind of a connection with others. Our guild is Kami-based and there is another faction called Karavan. Well, we are bitterly set against one another and are constantly warring over outposts in-game. But of course, the games with communities like this are all older. WOW definitely still has these types of scenarios. The new ones are a bit more disappointing by comparison.

Hey Hey

Looking back one of the things i miss about FFXI was the fact that most people did not have alts.  Sure you had your mules but in general you had one char that was known.   It was one of the few games where i was invited to a guild as a low level player not becouse it was a mass spam invite but becouse people had grouped with me on a number of occations.    At the end of the day i would much rather group with someone that i enjoyed bullshiting with , then on the gear they have. 

I think that part of the issues is the drive for gear in general, when your main focus is on getting the next drop, regarless if it is a solo firendly or group based game you are much more concerned with your self and not on other people.   GW2 looks very promising with the dynamic quest system, where as a community you have the oportunity to do something but who knows how it will turn out, WAR had a good idea with the public quests but in the end people just grinded them for the gear.

I also think part of the problem is with how PVP is setup these days, if all you are doing is killing someone for the points in order to get more gear, then for me atleast it is just another mindless grind.  At some point you i feel i have to do something becouse it is fun, not just for a means to some end.  

Welcome Home

Rev

And you could not have seen this before starting to play WoW hahaha.

Funny guys you gamers:P

I miss SWG... I remember back when pet mounts where new, we would mount up and half to litteraly cross the entire span of tatooine before we where able to raid the enemy city.We raided  Mos Syn, if anyone played flurry. Those were the good ol days in GSF.

Honestly, what the hell happened, SWG was really the only game that delivered so much social fun with a community, whether striving to build a city, or chatting in a cantina, or talking to that random guy in the 30 man buff line waiting so u can go hunting. Or sending ATST's and launching a attack back when anchorhead was populated.

I do miss the blood pledge wars in Lineage. All the guild were people who swore fealty to a prince or princess and those pledges could declare war on eachother. They could also have alliances. It made things personal and actually really fun. The game however had a lot of real world violence in Korea because of this.

But fun should be something in between having a guild camp your respawn point for ages to grief you and battlegrounds, neither is fun. Guildcities is a great thing or fortresses, particularly if you design them yourself.

And I would love a game were your guild could design their own dungeon with traps and monster mercenaries. 

Anyways, OP is right. PvP needs to be more than what it is today. But it also needs to keep griefing down a bit. A little is exciting but too much will just be boring.  

There are several games with acceptable PvP out there but they are not close to what they could be. If nothing else, the fact that most MMO players prefer PvE while most FPS players prefer PvP tells us that MMOs is not living up to what it should be.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

There is no community in mmos anymore. I have had more player interaction in non mmos such as Borderlands and Starcraft 2.

Originally posted by Evasia

And you could not have seen this before starting to play WoW hahaha.

Funny guys you gamers:P

Originally posted by deviliscious

 

I disagree. We know what we want,

 I doubt that very much.

You sound like a Shadowbane player.

In game politics are great.  I loved getting hate tells after ganking someone.  Then they bring their friends and camp my spawn, AWESOME.  It's so much better when you can interact, when you make friends who drop what they're doing to get you uncamped, when you get people ticked enough TO camp, ahh the gold old days.

Sadly, the trend lately is towards being so politically correct and protecting the feelings of every player, that nobody gets really emotionally involved...just addicted, which isn't nearly as fulfilling or fun.

---

Originally posted by Preponerance
I agree OP.  Part of it has to do with global chat and hiding behind "Trammel".  People aren't held accountable for anything.  I can't tell you how many times I go back to the same games and the same douche canoe is rambling off years later.  If it were an open PVP world with consequences (ie UO, EVE, Mortal) I would hunt them down till they left the server or game completely.

---

Originally posted by Sabiancym

The community.  It's not there.  I'm not talking about forums, guides, population, etc.  No I'm talking about people actually knowing each other in the game.

 

I miss having enemies.  Those guilds and people that you just hate and want to do everything possible to defeat them.  In swg, we loved nothing more than raiding another guild's city and clone camping them for a night.  It was a constant struggle between us and them.  There was meta-gaming, flame wars, propaganda, etc.  It was just plain fun.  It felt like a real enemy in the real world.

 

Games now you can't even talk to the other faction in game.  There are no player cities, there rarely is open world pvp, there is no sandbox.  It doesn't feel like a world.  It feels like a game, a souless game.

 

I realized this while playing wow today.  I was in a battleground and was killing people, but I felt no sense of accomplishment.  Nothing.  In SWG I could spend 20 minutes fighting one person who I'd had a bad relationship with for months and after I killed them  it felt like so much more of an accomplishment than if I had killed some no name from a different server who I'd never even talked to.

 

I really hope some big budget games go back to the virtual world idea.  Grinding gear and points is completely boring.  I want to make friends and enemies and have an actual impact on the world.

My advice go play Darkfall it have what you discribe and want in a mmo, if you can take hardcore gameplay and FFA full loot pvp, Darkfall is perfect then.

---

Originally posted by yaminsux
OP you pretty much nailed it, thank god i play eve <3

---

I agree. EVE shines in this area. :)

Originally posted by daniel!!!

maybe talking on forums on mmorpg.com can return us to that community sense, i know its not just us few and that there must be thousands more people who feel the same and wiill want to have the 'atmoshpere' back into the mmorpg world

Funny you mention that, I get my community fix from this website more than the multiplayer games I play now.

Originally posted by corpusc

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by deviliscious

I disagree. We know what we want, and some developers actually take the time to use that information to make better games.  Why Don;t you just ask Arena Net about that. They had us fill out surveys and they used that information to make Guild wars2. Many of us have played a great variety of games, and  make educated decisions based on that experience.

It is all about supply and demand. It is the developers job to suppy us with a game that we demand. Whoever gets there first and does it the best wins our money. That is how you  become successful. LOL

Heh, like I said, you think you know what you want. Everyone does.

It's just not what you really enjoy 99% of the time.

Just like people who think if they just had lots of money they'd be happy. Or a new car. Or if their life was just a bit better they'd be satisfied.

They think they know what they want. But only when you get it, you can realize you were wrong all this time.

We'll see how those "better games" end up.

 

you are completely right. 

people want what ultimately makes them unhappy much of the time, and completey discount and discredit things that do or WOULD (if they didn't reject them with pat, simplistic, simple-minded reasons) make them happy .

the whole MMORPG thing is just one of the larger bits of proof of that.  the majority that plays them clamours for the very features that makes them feel like they are working a 2nd job.  no other form of entertainment has so many fans that complain about the very activities they are performing the most feeling like "grind".  most people in this forum even use the word "work" to describe what should be "play" sessions.

they confuse addiction and compulsion with enjoyment.

That makes sense, and I agree to a point, but with regards to MMORGPs specifically, you wont' know that until a developer actually tries it. A lot of things that I think I want haven't been tried at all or havent been done since UO/EQ days. It's hard to know for sure what you want when developers won't even try anything new or won't go back to their roots. There may be a lot of games out now, but the choice is still very limited as far as features are concerned, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Evasia

Originally posted by Sabiancym

The community.  It's not there.  I'm not talking about forums, guides, population, etc.  No I'm talking about people actually knowing each other in the game.

 

I miss having enemies.  Those guilds and people that you just hate and want to do everything possible to defeat them.  In swg, we loved nothing more than raiding another guild's city and clone camping them for a night.  It was a constant struggle between us and them.  There was meta-gaming, flame wars, propaganda, etc.  It was just plain fun.  It felt like a real enemy in the real world.

 

Games now you can't even talk to the other faction in game.  There are no player cities, there rarely is open world pvp, there is no sandbox.  It doesn't feel like a world.  It feels like a game, a souless game.

 

I realized this while playing wow today.  I was in a battleground and was killing people, but I felt no sense of accomplishment.  Nothing.  In SWG I could spend 20 minutes fighting one person who I'd had a bad relationship with for months and after I killed them  it felt like so much more of an accomplishment than if I had killed some no name from a different server who I'd never even talked to.

 

I really hope some big budget games go back to the virtual world idea.  Grinding gear and points is completely boring.  I want to make friends and enemies and have an actual impact on the world.

My advice go play Darkfall it have what you discribe and want in a mmo, if you can take hardcore gameplay and FFA full loot pvp, Darkfall is perfect then.

I played darkfall and really enjoyed it, but I couldn't find a decent guild to join and the game was way way way way way too much of a grind.

I agree, but life styles change.  For you to be in a community you really have to play a lot.  You can't have enemies if you log on for an hour a few times a week.  You can't really have close online friends(in MMO terms) either since it takes time to grow those relationships.  You get enemies playing a few hours every night for months and months fighting with them over and over.  You're not going to remember 1 person of 1000s if you don't have continued exposure to them.  

Basically, I can't play a MMO like I did when I started.  If I could, I wouldn't be married with kids=)  I can't sit down for an entire night or afternoon and play a videogame, but thats the only way you'll be a part of a community, seeing the same people over and over.  For those that still play MMOs now like they did 10 years ago, all the power to them.  But for many of us, its all over until the kids go off to college I guess=)  Thats life.  Although, I really don't have the drive to foster or make online friends anymore or get overly involved in what happens in a videogame.  I'll play and have fun, but what happens after I log off is rather meaningless, since I have much more important things to be concerned with.  Making online friends isn't a high priority anymore like it seemed when I was young & single.

Originally posted by belltiara67

And if you were a complete douchebag, you were known through out the server as one. Healers that go AFK during parties constantly? Blacklisted. People really knew each other. 

It was the same in EQ1.  If you got a bad rep as a wizzie, you might as well quit or re-roll because you were not going to get a group.

Personally, I think the genre is at a sort of crossroads for non-Wow players.  The last two MMOs I've tried, FE and STO both felt like SP games.  Honestly, it is my belief that TOR is going to be a make or break prospect for players like myself.  If it stinks, it will be more or less the kiss of death for me as it will be just another crap release among a slew of others.

Originally posted by Palebane

Originally posted by daniel!!!

maybe talking on forums on mmorpg.com can return us to that community sense, i know its not just us few and that there must be thousands more people who feel the same and wiill want to have the 'atmoshpere' back into the mmorpg world

Funny you mention that, I get my community fix from this website more than the multiplayer games I play now.

I'm with you on that one.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

The community.  It's not there.  I'm not talking about forums, guides, population, etc.  No I'm talking about people actually knowing each other in the game.

 

I miss having enemies.  Those guilds and people that you just hate and want to do everything possible to defeat them.  In swg, we loved nothing more than raiding another guild's city and clone camping them for a night.  It was a constant struggle between us and them.  There was meta-gaming, flame wars, propaganda, etc.  It was just plain fun.  It felt like a real enemy in the real world.

 

Games now you can't even talk to the other faction in game.  There are no player cities, there rarely is open world pvp, there is no sandbox.  It doesn't feel like a world.  It feels like a game, a souless game.

 

I realized this while playing wow today.  I was in a battleground and was killing people, but I felt no sense of accomplishment.  Nothing.  In SWG I could spend 20 minutes fighting one person who I'd had a bad relationship with for months and after I killed them  it felt like so much more of an accomplishment than if I had killed some no name from a different server who I'd never even talked to.

 

I really hope some big budget games go back to the virtual world idea.  Grinding gear and points is completely boring.  I want to make friends and enemies and have an actual impact on the world.

Darkfall is NOT there yet but after darkfall 2010 it will be there