I always viewed trash mobs as the maze leading to the cheese.  You have to carefully navigate to the center otherwise you can spend hours doing the wrong thing or going the wrong direction.  It use to be the concept that some mobs needed to be up to create an encounter, or that some needed to be killed while some survived.  I like trash mobs, it provides a needed speed bump for the hussle bussle crowd that just wants to go in and kill a named.  But that is just me.

END OF LINE_

~V

Originally posted by Robokapp

Troy. Achilles gets pissed and doesn't fight at all until his cousin gets killed, then he PVPs Hector.

 Yeah i guess Several years of war do not count as fighting....

Originally posted by Senerius

Originally posted by Robokapp

Troy. Achilles gets pissed and doesn't fight at all until his cousin gets killed, then he PVPs Hector.

 Yeah i guess Several years of war do not count as fighting....

 fighting is one thing "killing trash mobs" is a different story. :)

he did pvp not trash clearing.

I just want to see somthing new...................................................................

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by Senerius

Originally posted by Robokapp

Troy. Achilles gets pissed and doesn't fight at all until his cousin gets killed, then he PVPs Hector.

 Yeah i guess Several years of war do not count as fighting....

 fighting is one thing "killing trash mobs" is a different story. :)

he did pvp not trash clearing.

   Ok so a regular soldier is not trash to achilles?

Perhaps I misunderstood what is ment by a trash mob?

Care to enlighten us why a normal soldier is not trash in comparison to the son of a god who was dipped in the river styx to make him all but invulneralbe?

lol posts like this are exactly why the MMO genre is dying.

It sounds like you're after a drug high more than anything. "I don't want to deal with any of the fluff, just inject the fun into my blood".

Originally posted by helthros

lol posts like this are exactly why the MMO genre is dying.

 

It sounds like you're after a drug high more than anything. "I don't want to deal with any of the fluff, just inject the fun into my blood".

 Well it would be nice if they made the "fluff" interesting. As it is now, it's drudgery more than anything. Also it would be nice if they made the trash mobs more relevant in the dungeon. Have them make sense in the context of the place. Most of time dungeons are so static, so inorganic that all the trash is just there for time wasting in the dungeon to make it seem longer than it really is.

Originally posted by jezvin

Why do alot of dungeons and raids have trash mobs?

I like doing big epic fights and battles and stuff but it seems alot of raids in MMOs are all about clearing all this trash crap to get to actual fights to have some fun.

Where is the MMO that is just going to let you do epic fights when you want to do a fight instead of clear though hours of shit to get there.

less time wasting more fun please.

Edit:

O and on the subject get rid of all the agressive mobs that prevent people from just running around in a zone if they feel like it instead of having to wade though a bunch of molasses to get to the other side.

 I think that the "trash mobs" are there because they serve as the underlings of the boss that you are working to get to. He is not much of a "boss" or bad mo fo if he has no power over anyone.

As far as the aggressive mobs that prevent free roaming in a zone (or a dungeon to be more specific), well.... thats the point.  You shouldnt really be roaming care free behind enemy lines. 

Originally posted by Raizeen

Trash are easy to kill unless you suck

I think its safe to say at one point or another... everyone sucked at one point in their gameing career. 

do you suck? its ok to be be noob.

Sure it is.  Just like you and I and everyone here was when they first started playing.

 In da red.

I liked the undead part of the old Stratholme in WoW.

The trash was often tougher than the bosses. You came into the instance and there were initially 3 mob groups and 3-4 patrolling bats who had a fear-ability. And these eyes sometimes, who spawned more bats, if not killed instantly.
You could find out very soon, if you had a good group.

Originally posted by Senerius

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by Senerius

Originally posted by Robokapp

Troy. Achilles gets pissed and doesn't fight at all until his cousin gets killed, then he PVPs Hector.

 Yeah i guess Several years of war do not count as fighting....

 fighting is one thing "killing trash mobs" is a different story. :)

he did pvp not trash clearing.

   Ok so a regular soldier is not trash to achilles?

Perhaps I misunderstood what is ment by a trash mob?

Care to enlighten us why a normal soldier is not trash in comparison to the son of a god who was dipped in the river styx to make him all but invulneralbe?

 well more often than not you're not achilles, you're the soldier and along with others (some with shields, some with staves) you are the ones killing the almost-invulnerable son-of-god.

I wouldn't call achilles = player so the soldier =/= trash. I'd call the soldier = player and achilles = raid boss. And did achilles have trash? :) he had adds but he fought in frontlines when he fought.

bah nvm. I'll just admit I'm wrong.

edit: RL PvE sucks.

I think that I enjoy the trash mob fights in dungeons and raids. There is no reason to remove them, then it wouldn't even be a dungeon it would just be a boss fight.

Originally posted by arenasb

Originally posted by helthros

lol posts like this are exactly why the MMO genre is dying.

 

It sounds like you're after a drug high more than anything. "I don't want to deal with any of the fluff, just inject the fun into my blood".

 Well it would be nice if they made the "fluff" interesting. As it is now, it's drudgery more than anything. Also it would be nice if they made the trash mobs more relevant in the dungeon. Have them make sense in the context of the place. Most of time dungeons are so static, so inorganic that all the trash is just there for time wasting in the dungeon to make it seem longer than it really is.

Not sure what game you're referring to that has mobs that don't go with the dungeons they are in. I hear good things about DDO dungeons. WoW's dungeons are obviously themed.

Honestly, if you feel this way about MMOs and dungeons then maybe you're just worn out. Everything in the world can be oversimplified and dumbed down to make it seem so boring. I can think of lots of dungeons that have programs and actions that make them interesting.

If you really want a dynamic experience in your dungeons then you should check out CoH's AE system.

PS. The idea behind "trash" is to set a challenge before the boss. See, you're looking at it from an elitist point of view. Sure, whatever dungeons you have in your head you have probably been completely over-geared for. When it's like this, it's easy to view "trash" mobs as fluff.

However, when you're going into a dungeon for the first time, it's not the same. Maybe you're a few levels under, maybe you're undergeared, maybe you don't have an optimal group layout.

I think what happened here is the OP got tired of running the same things he's been completely overgeared for. Then, thinking only of himself like these threads usually start, he has what appears to be a bright idea. "Hmm, I don't like trash anymore because it simply isn't challenging me, why are they even there in the game"?

Hopefully putting it like that helps put into perspective how silly this thread is. :)

To answer the the question "Why do dungeons have trash mobs" in most casees it's simply a gear/level/skill check to make sure you even deserve to face the boss. The concept is quite simple.

Curse this generation. What this thread pretty much stated was that he wants a drive-through window for boss fights. Damn this fast-food generation!

Bah, we need more trash mobs.  The newer games gave them real slow respawn timers making wipes no big deal.  Trash mobs are there to create an obstacle to the boss.  They are there to make sure you have earned your shot at the kill. 

AoC has a boss with no trash mobs: Yakhmar the giant worm.  Its just not the same...

Originally posted by helthros

Originally posted by arenasb

Originally posted by helthros
 

 

I think what happened here is the OP got tired of running the same things he's been completely overgeared for. Then, thinking only of himself like these threads usually start, he has what appears to be a bright idea. "Hmm, I don't like trash anymore because it simply isn't challenging me, why are they even there in the game"?

Hopefully putting it like that helps put into perspective how silly this thread is. :)

Originally posted by jezvin

This has nothing to do with wanting gear faster I think it would be more fun to spend 4 hours on an epic boss fight then 2 hours clearing a dungeon and then killing a boss in 15 mins.

 OMG, I would never attempt a raid against a 4 hour boss.  Seriously, you'd want that?  It would get the name of "the boss that never dies" if it had any difficulty to it whatsoever, other than the time it took to kill.

Tank has to go to the bathroom, group wipes.

Healer sneezes, group wipes.

Someone at the door, group wipes.

etc etc.  a 4 hour long fight that is difficult the whole way through is asking to never kill the boss.  SOMEONE is going to screw up, unless you're playing with all bots.

Originally posted by jezvin

No I don't do dungeons where there is a lot of trash mobs I pretty much just quit the game once I get to the boring end game crap like that.

 

I played FFXI end game and basically dynamis is the only event that you can consider having trash mobs everything else is about channeling your group against a fight.

 

I played WoW, EQ2, WAR, DAOC, to end game PvE content and I couldn't stand it. you spend hours clearing this area to get a few mins on a worthless boss it's a long build up to nothing.

 

WoW had lots of World bosses in classic. Don't know if you played back then, but the general consesus was that they were boring. Also, fighting over respawns and the like is just silly. That would be worse than 'trash mobs' any day of the week. If you're talking about an instance for 1 boss, then that's just silly.

 

And I look at so many games and they all seem to be planning to just repeat the process I hate.

 

To the people citing you need them for lore, well some lore makes sense and some doesn’t. Usually a human like boss will have a lot of henchmen, but monsters like a dragon. It's a dragon it doesn’t need crap for henchmen they kill armies while sleeping.

 

You honestly think it's a foreign concept to have whelps and dragonkin near and around a dragon's lair? It seems like you're trying to achieve some boring level of realism tbh. It's a video game, don't be such a tight a**.

 

This has nothing to do with wanting gear faster I think it would be more fun to spend 4 hours on an epic boss fight then 2 hours clearing a dungeon and then killing a boss in 15 mins.

 

Hey everyone has their own tastes. I think you're part of a VERY small demographic though. I dare say you're going to be very disappointed for years to come. The closest thing to this I did was Requiem where the boss fights were ridiculously long. I would literally fall asleep at the keyboard.

 

I just like the epic dragon fights not undead swordsman #249.

If every fight was an epic dragon fight, wouldn't it lose it's "epic" feel and then just become another dragon fight #2554? In order to keep the feel of the fight "epic", without turning combat into some long tedius hassle, would be to make combat less frequent. This game sounds innovative and super awesome.....

 

David didn't need to clean goliath's lair.

 

David wasn't playing a video game.

 

So please take your insights to what I am "Thinking" and start to think maybe the genre is stale because every major game basically does the same crap over and over again. Once you played one you have played all of them.

 

I never said the industry wsan't stale and boring. I just strongly disagree that the concept of "trash mobs" is even remotely responsible. If anything, the lack of 'trash mobs' (dungeons) is one of the main reasons why games don't do well. Look at Aion and CoH. CoH would be the best game in my opinion (LOTS n LOTS of trash mobs too lol)  if it had an endgame with tiered raids/dungeons.

Originally posted by helthros

Originally posted by jezvin

No I don't do dungeons where there is a lot of trash mobs I pretty much just quit the game once I get to the boring end game crap like that.

 

I played FFXI end game and basically dynamis is the only event that you can consider having trash mobs everything else is about channeling your group against a fight.

 

I played WoW, EQ2, WAR, DAOC, to end game PvE content and I couldn't stand it. you spend hours clearing this area to get a few mins on a worthless boss it's a long build up to nothing.

 

WoW had lots of World bosses in classic. Don't know if you played back then, but the general consesus was that they were boring. Also, fighting over respawns and the like is just silly. That would be worse than 'trash mobs' any day of the week. If you're talking about an instance for 1 boss, then that's just silly.

 

And I look at so many games and they all seem to be planning to just repeat the process I hate.

 

To the people citing you need them for lore, well some lore makes sense and some doesn’t. Usually a human like boss will have a lot of henchmen, but monsters like a dragon. It's a dragon it doesn’t need crap for henchmen they kill armies while sleeping.

 

You honestly think it's a foreign concept to have whelps and dragonkin near and around a dragon's lair? It seems like you're trying to achieve some boring level of realism tbh. It's a video game, don't be such a tight a**.

 

This has nothing to do with wanting gear faster I think it would be more fun to spend 4 hours on an epic boss fight then 2 hours clearing a dungeon and then killing a boss in 15 mins.

 

Hey everyone has their own tastes. I think you're part of a VERY small demographic though. I dare say you're going to be very disappointed for years to come. The closest thing to this I did was Requiem where the boss fights were ridiculously long. I would literally fall asleep at the keyboard.

 

I just like the epic dragon fights not undead swordsman #249.

If every fight was an epic dragon fight, wouldn't it lose it's "epic" feel and then just become another dragon fight #2554? In order to keep the feel of the fight "epic", without turning combat into some long tedius hassle, would be to make combat less frequent. This game sounds innovative and super awesome.....

 

David didn't need to clean goliath's lair.

 

David wasn't playing a video game.

 

So please take your insights to what I am "Thinking" and start to think maybe the genre is stale because every major game basically does the same crap over and over again. Once you played one you have played all of them.

 

I never said the industry wsan't stale and boring. I just strongly disagree that the concept of "trash mobs" is even remotely responsible. If anything, the lack of 'trash mobs' (dungeons) is one of the main reasons why games don't do well. Look at Aion and CoH. CoH would be the best game in my opinion (LOTS n LOTS of trash mobs too lol)  if it had an endgame with tiered raids/dungeons.

helthros,

So you enjoy trash mobs being in places for no other purpose than just to be there? I've played a gambit of mmos and I've come accross very few dungeons in all of them that I can recall that had mobs that were there for a logical purpose. Every single dungeon in WoW (just as an example since most people have played it) there are scores of mobs just sitting or standing there. Why? Why do they just sit there. And another thing that bugs me, if you saw your buddies being attacked wouldn't you help them? You would think that anything within sight or sound of action that those mobs in the vicinity would investigate. As they stand now almost every dungeon feels like a Diablo action game crawler.

Ya man where is the MMO that is just a hallway with a treasure chest at the end? Oh wait I am far too lazy to open a chest so or to loot it from the ground so just have it suspended in mid air for me.

If you don't want to deal with trash mobs... maybe video games aren't for you at all.  I was going to suggest fighting games or sports games but even they have their version of trash mobs. You need to play the season to get to the superbowl, or fight a lot of fights to get to Bison.

Personally I think an MMO that was just walking into a room with a boss in it would suck balls.