About the smartest thing in that bunch of stuff are the weekly episodes. 

The current content flies by so quickly you can get it done with your free month.  By trickling content out, you might manage to keep people who are satisfied with an hour of content a week.  That wouldn't be me, but still...

Smart move.  STO is still substandard compared to most other major MMO offerings, but I give them credit for knowing the best way to keep subs with a minimal amount of work.

Opinion is neither right or wrong, it's is a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.  Likewise, just because the OP has a different viewpoint and you don't see eye-to-eye, does not make him a troll.

And as for the whole topic it can be summed up with one video clip.  Yes, it can be polished, but that doesn't change the fact that in our "opinion" it is what it is. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rax27_ZIVM

Originally posted by Silverdagger

Opinion is neither right or wrong, it's is a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.  Likewise, just because the OP has a different viewpoint and you don't see eye-to-eye, does not make him a troll.

And as for the whole topic it can be summed up with one video clip.  Yes, it can be polished, but that doesn't change the fact that in our "opinion" it is what it is. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rax27_ZIVM

You are right, mostly it depends on personal view. Hardly to tell whether it's right or wrong if you do not consider it from both sides.

i understand people who like the game being upset, but  honestly, explain why all the stuff i highlighted red should not have been in the game at launch. almost all of it is to do with basic content that everyone knows sto is far beyond sub-standard on.

as to it being opinion yes it is... it is a lot of peoples opinion. in fact it is the vast majority of peoples opinion.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/285860/Will-you-ever-buy-another-Cryptic-game.html

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/276296/would-u-buy-another-cryptic-game.html

cdf can come here and scream hater all they like, it wont change the fact that sto is a bad, half finished game.

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Originally posted by raistalin69

explain why all the stuff i highlighted red should not have been in the game at launch.

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There is no 'should'. That simply makes no sense.

MMO as many software development projects is never ending process.

I could argument the same and say that EVE Online should have been what it is now at launch. You can still find plenty of people who will tell you that upcoming Walking in Stations(Incarna) expansion should be present from launch.

There is no line of what 'should' be in game or not. All your 'should' comes from your expectations while the reality is much simpler - Do you purchase and subscribe or not?

The numbers speaks clearly. The game got enough people interested to keep the servers and development running. It is those people who matters, not the haters and trolls filling up polls you linked. Cryptic makes profit thus they must be doing something right and the game can't be that bad...

You find the game bad, don't you like it? Ok, move on...

Because you do not like the game does not make it bad, it makes you not liking it only.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by raistalin69

explain why all the stuff i highlighted red should not have been in the game at launch.

 

 

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There is no 'should'. That simply makes no sense.

MMO as many software development projects is never ending process.

I could argument the same and say that EVE Online should have been what it is now at launch. You can still find plenty of people who will tell you that upcoming Walking in Stations(Incarna) expansion should be present from launch.

There is no line of what 'should' be in game or not. All your 'should' comes from your expectations while the reality is much simpler - Do you purchase and subscribe or not?

The numbers speaks clearly. The game got enough people interested to keep the servers and development running. It is those people who matters, not the haters and trolls filling up polls you linked. Cryptic makes profit thus they must be doing something right and the game can't be that bad...

You find the game bad, don't you like it? Ok, move on...

 

Because you do not like the game does not make it bad, it makes you not liking it only.

You've hit the nail on the head.

Obsessive haters are amusing.  They bash the game for being short on systems or content, then they bash the game for adding systems and content.

No matter what Cryptic does, the trolls will come pouring out like rats to tell everyone how "bad" it is.  This forum has been particularly comical in that regard.

Cryptic has been steadily improving this game.  The retrospective post by Stahl is proof.  For the people who still play the game, it's very good news.  For some reason, that really threatens/frightens some people.

While I am not a huge fan of STO because it feels heartless they certainly seem to have been busting their hump, especially when compared to a ton of other games.  What one player feels should have been in at launch and what Cryptic released are two completely different things....

So, you felt that klingons should have been pve, well now you have your wish.  At least cryptic, apparently, is willing and able to work with the playerbase to make STO a good game.

All of the borg stuff was coming soon, it was never (as far as I can recall) part of the launch stuff.

If the NEW missions and content had been in at release, then they wouldn't be new and additional content then.  Also, if they had had all of that content in at launch and didnt add it all in over the last 6 months my bet is you'd be complaining that not enough has been added to the game.

I'm not gonna go through the whole post and address the op's highlighting ability, it seems to me that STO is on a good path and I for one may have to resub.  Looks like they are making progress and it looks like they have done a crap ton of work in a short period of time.

Originally posted by Rohn

 

 

You've hit the nail on the head.

Obsessive haters are amusing.  They bash the game for being short on systems or content, then they bash the game for adding systems and content.

Well.. they bash the game because it deserves a lot of bashing lol.  You could also take what you said here and apply it to the STO community as well.  They cry out for this and that and the kitchen sink.  When they get it, the forums explode in flames about how horrible it is. 

No matter what Cryptic does, the trolls will come pouring out like rats to tell everyone how "bad" it is.  This forum has been particularly comical in that regard.

Hello there... have you even seen the STO forums?  They are about as toxic as the forums here... if not more so.

But this forum is comical in that reguard about most every game on this site... so its not like STO is an exception. 

Cryptic has been steadily improving this game. 

Thats a matter of opinion

The retrospective post by Stahl is proof.  For the people who still play the game, it's very good news.  For some reason, that really threatens/frightens some people.

Stahl does seem to communicate with the community much better than zinc ever did.  I give him cudos for that.  But I think he has his hands full.

 

 In red.

Looks go so far. I'm looking forward to the upcoming changes too. I don't see anything worth bitching about there but plenty to look forward to.

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by raistalin69

explain why all the stuff i highlighted red should not have been in the game at launch.

 

 

---

 

There is no 'should'. That simply makes no sense.

so expecting a basic amount of content that lasts more than two weeks (unless you play 3 hours a week) is unreasonable, for a game that has a subscription and 2 "fully functional" factions?

MMO as many software development projects is never ending process.

as you point out in your next paragraph

I could argument the same and say that EVE Online should have been what it is now at launch. You can still find plenty of people who will tell you that upcoming Walking in Stations(Incarna) expansion should be present from launch.

and it wasnt. but ccp didnt attack the people who left because eve wasnt what they wanted. cryptic stated "some people just dont get it" as a response to the games many failings brought up by there player base. thats an insult. i didnt say the additions were a bad thing, just that they should have been in the game at release, and that maybe in another 6 months the game will be in a "release" worthy state.

There is no line of what 'should' be in game or not. All your 'should' comes from your expectations while the reality is much simpler - Do you purchase and subscribe or not?

i did buy the game, did not subscribe, and  I am now warning others that this game is not finished, and is not worth playing...... hence posting on an mmo site  where people exchange information about the games that are on the market, thats why this site is here by the way, to exchange information about mmo's.

The numbers speaks clearly. The game got enough people interested to keep the servers and development running. It is those people who matters, not the haters and trolls filling up polls you linked. Cryptic makes profit thus they must be doing something right and the game can't be that bad...

well it is those people who matter... to cryptic. but this is a forum about mmo's. not a love fest for companies that put out products most people consider shoddy or sub-par. cryptic should also be interested in those polls, its free market research for them as to the reputation of there brand.

You find the game bad, don't you like it? Ok, move on...

 no thank you, i like warning others about what a sub-standard game sto is, and what a money grubbing company cryptic is.

Because you do not like the game does not make it bad, it makes you not liking it only.

your right, me not liking the game doesnt make it bad. cryptic made it bad, and the bad reviews, low ratings on almost all sites and huge fall off of subscriptions all speak to the validity of that.

 

You've hit the nail on the head.

Obsessive haters are amusing.  They bash the game for being short on systems or content, then they bash the game for adding systems and content.

not bashing, the added things were all needed. im pointing out that they have nothing to brag about for trying to finish a game to a release worthy state they released 6 months ago

No matter what Cryptic does, the trolls will come pouring out like rats to tell everyone how "bad" it is.  This forum has been particularly comical in that regard.

two way street, hence the word forums.... a place for discussion. and again rather than stating that people are haters or trolls, why dont you tell us how the game was release ready and is even better today, and why you think so.

Cryptic has been steadily improving this game.  The retrospective post by Stahl is proof.  For the people who still play the game, it's very good news.  For some reason, that really threatens/frightens some people.

i would say they have been finishing this game (getting it ready for release), what they have done is an improvement.... but improveing on something does not speak to the original quality. ie. if i go to the bank and pay 100$ towards the debt on my credit card, i have improved my level of debt. i does not speak to how much debt i am in. if i owed 50,000$ before i put 100$... it would be misleading for me to brag about what a great thins i had done. thats not to say that what has been done is not good news, but for someone who has not played the game it is only a very small part of the picture that is misleading.

Originally posted by artemisentr4

Originally posted by raistalin69

Originally posted by Archeminos

STo isnt half as bad as people on forums, especially these forums make it out to be. And as far as what SHOULD have been in at luanch, that's purely opinion and nothing more. None of the added it stuff was promised at launch.

And if you don't like the game or play it, why did you make this post? Just to troll a game YOU don't like? Need ot remember just because you don't like something, doesnt meant no one else does there, kid.

 your right its not half as bad... its completely as bad as people make it out to be. and the reason it is as bad as its made out to be is because that is the opinion of the vast majority of people.

ummm, yeah.... mmo forums.... guess you thought it would be only positive feedback about a half finished game.

perhaps you got lost and thought you were at the official sto forums?

As a game it's not that bad. As an MMO it's not that good. But it is moving in the right direction. At it's 1 year aniversery, it should be an ok MMO and still a good game. 

I agree. I figure on giving it another shot this winter if the updates continue.

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Originally posted by raistalin69

i did buy the game, did not subscribe, and  I am now warning others that this game is not finished, and is not worth playing...... hence posting on an mmo site  where people exchange information about the games that are on the market, thats why this site is here by the way, to exchange information about mmo's.

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And that's the whole point and I would need to repeat the same again.

The game can't be finished, it is up to each to decide whether the game is worthy, not you.

You an not exchanging any information about the game but your own emo rage only. In other words, you're trolling.

Yeah, 'some people just don't get it'.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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And that's the whole point and I would need to repeat the same again.

The game can't be finished, it is up to each to decide whether the game is worthy, not you.

You an not exchanging any information about the game but your own emo rage only. In other words, you're trolling.

 

Yeah, 'some people just don't get it'.

 no mmo can be finished(short of being turned off), we all know that. your avoiding the the point that this mmo doesnt meet the basic requirements (of most people) to be considered release ready.(klingons not finished, pathetic crafting system, bad ground combat, lack of content, insulting cryptic staff, extremely repetitive,small map... etc etc.)

next part is  hypothetical

tell you what, send me your address and ill mail you my mmo cod for 500$. of course i will expect you to pay a monthly fee and im not actually letting anyone play it for another 50 years, but as you point out, its up to the maker of the mmo to decide if its ready for release.

if you choose to buy this mmo, i expect you to not tell others about my business practices if you find them shady or lacking.

i havent decided what i will be charging monthly yet... let me get back to you on that.

edit: there will be a cash shop for items, so let me know if theres anything you want. i will be making the cash shop first and filling it with stuff youve asked for before working on the game. i plan on listening to my customers so your input is important! and as ive stated before, if all you have to say in defence of the game is that other people are haters, quite obviously theres not much positive to say.

Originally posted by raistalin69

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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---

 

And that's the whole point and I would need to repeat the same again.

The game can't be finished, it is up to each to decide whether the game is worthy, not you.

You an not exchanging any information about the game but your own emo rage only. In other words, you're trolling.

 

Yeah, 'some people just don't get it'.

 no mmo can be finished(short of being turned off), we all know that. your avoiding the the point that this mmo doesnt meet the basic requirements (of most people) to be considered release ready.

next part is  hypothetical

tell you what, send me your address and ill mail you my mmo cod for 500$. of course i will expect you to pay a monthly fee and im not actually letting anyone play it for another 50 years, but as you point out, its up to the maker of the mmo to decide if its ready for release.

if you choose to buy this mmo, i expect you to not tell others about my business practices if you find them shady or lacking.

i havent decided what i will be charging monthly yet... let me get back to you on that.

 

edit: there will be a cash shop for items, so let me know if theres anything you want. i will be making the cash shop first and filling it with stuff youve asked for before working on the game. i plan on listening to my customers so your input is important!

I think "the most people" is argueable. Even if you are right about it, still as a niche game does not need to appeal to "most people". "Most people" play wow and asian f2p, so probably we all should go there.

Originally posted by Archeminos

STo isnt half as bad as people on forums, especially these forums make it out to be. And as far as what SHOULD have been in at luanch, that's purely opinion and nothing more. None of the added it stuff was promised at launch.

And if you don't like the game or play it, why did you make this post? Just to troll a game YOU don't like? Need ot remember just because you don't like something, doesnt meant no one else does there, kid.

Need to remember just because you like something, doesn't mean everyone else does, infant.

Don't wanna hear the bad truth? Stick to the official forums. Don't like that people can say what they feel about the game here? Leave.

Easy enough choice, even for you.

Originally posted by gandales

Originally posted by raistalin69

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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---

 

 

I think "the most people" is argueable. Even if you are right about it, still as a niche game does not need to appeal to "most people". "Most people" play wow and asian f2p, so probably we all should go there.

 point taken. i agree sto is a niche game, problem with that is by taking on the title "STAR TREK" you are marketing it to a large group that rightfully has certain expectations. when i bought star trek online i expected a game with some depth to it (sort of like the various tv series and movies had),not just a 80's grinder video game with better graphics. exploration would kind of be expected in a star trek game, unless it is marketed as a combat simulator (ie bridge commander). As an mmo, one reasonably expects a functional crafting system.

as you say "most people" is arguable, i submit that the many bad reviews, polls on this site and the overall mostly negative posts here very strongly support this. allthough the official sto forums are more positive, that is due in part to heavy editing and deleting by moderators on that site (rightfully so, they can do what they want on their forums) and the same complaints found here are or were once on that site, which also supports this view.

you are most certainly correct that as a niche game sto does not need to appeal to most people, it does however need to gain subscriptions rather than bleed them like a hemophiliac after being shot. the few successful niche games still on the market all have one thing in common, they started small and continued to grow. sto might do this, but currently is quickly headed in the opposite direction currently. simply put if subs were still above 100k and growing cryptic would be useing this to market the game.

and no thank you, not interested in wow or most F2P games, allthough there are many F2P that are signifigantly better than sto. theres also better "niche" games, eve and fallen earth come to mind.

It's convenient that when a game tanks some people have "it's a niche market game" to throw up there as if it's some kind of saving grace.

News flash. It's not a niche market game.  It's a designed for the mass market game that's failing.

People are trying to put the cart before the horse now, but it doesn't apply.

Cryptic never intended STO to be a "niche market game. Pretty much every decision they made along the way was intended to give the game mass market appeal.  Unfortunately their failure to deliver on the end result of those decisions in most areas, or to deliver a shoddy end result, is precisely why it's sitting with such anemic numbers.

Originally posted by Hagonbok

It's convenient that when a game tanks some people have "it's a niche market game" to throw up there as if it's some kind of saving grace.

News flash. It's not a niche market game.  It's a designed for the mass market game that's failing.

People are trying to put the cart before the horse now, but it doesn't apply.

Cryptic never intended STO to be a "niche market game. Pretty much every decision they made along the way was intended to give the game mass market appeal.  Unfortunately their failure to deliver on the end result of those decisions in most areas, or to deliver a shoddy end result, is precisely why it's sitting with such anemic numbers.

Could you elaborate a bit more? STO is a sci-fi mmo, which is already a kind of niche market itself. However, going a bit further the game is oriented to casual and relaxing gaming, which is not necesarily right or good for masses.

I know this is news for some people but there is a universe of players outside these forums that are not examining every detail of a game or make a mmo a huge part of their lives, people that expending $15 a month is neglectable in their budget. I am not saying that STO is a success but I could hardly call it a failure when I see many people enjoy it. Regrettable, I am not one of those people and I am not playing STO but some of my friends play it and they are happy with it. 

Originally posted by gandales

Originally posted by Hagonbok

It's convenient that when a game tanks some people have "it's a niche market game" to throw up there as if it's some kind of saving grace.

News flash. It's not a niche market game.  It's a designed for the mass market game that's failing.

People are trying to put the cart before the horse now, but it doesn't apply.

Cryptic never intended STO to be a "niche market game. Pretty much every decision they made along the way was intended to give the game mass market appeal.  Unfortunately their failure to deliver on the end result of those decisions in most areas, or to deliver a shoddy end result, is precisely why it's sitting with such anemic numbers.

Could you elaborate a bit more? STO is a sci-fi mmo, which is already a kind of niche market itself. However, going a bit further the game is oriented to casual and relaxing gaming, which is not necesarily right or good for masses.

 

I know this is news for some people but there is a universe of players outside these forums that are not examining every detail of a game or make a mmo a huge part of their lives, people that expending $15 a month is neglectable in their budget. I am not saying that STO is a success but I could hardly call it a failure when I see many people enjoy it. Regrettable, I am not one of those people and I am not playing STO but some of my friends play it and they are happy with it. 

You really are comical in your desperate attempts to defend this game. Do you really think they got the rights to make a ST mmo to create a "niche market game"? Are you serious? Give your sad little head a shake.

Not only that, but this whole "oriented to casual and relaxing gaming"  is something they scrambled to come up with long after it was clear the game was in trouble. It was an excuse for releasing the game with such a severe lack of content, continues to be an excuse, and it was a stupid attempt because even back when they came up with it  "casual and relaxed" players were complaining, and are still complaining, about that lack of content. There were 300+ people in our guild just after release that listed themselves as casual and relaxed gamers, and played as such, but were done with the game a month or less after getting it.

You can flog that BS as much as you like, but there's enough of us left  from the beginning (and I mean from the very first day Cryptic announced their effort and opened their site) that'll just keep giving you your much needed reality checks.  Neither you, nor Cryptic, is going to get away with changing history there you wannabe McFly.

It is a failure because not only is it's population tanking steadily, but it failed to deliver on pretty much everything they stated would be in the game at release, and they continue to fail in adding anything substantial to the game coming on six months after release.

Originally posted by Hagonbok

Originally posted by gandales

Originally posted by Hagonbok

It's convenient that when a game tanks some people have "it's a niche market game" to throw up there as if it's some kind of saving grace.

News flash. It's not a niche market game.  It's a designed for the mass market game that's failing.

People are trying to put the cart before the horse now, but it doesn't apply.

Cryptic never intended STO to be a "niche market game. Pretty much every decision they made along the way was intended to give the game mass market appeal.  Unfortunately their failure to deliver on the end result of those decisions in most areas, or to deliver a shoddy end result, is precisely why it's sitting with such anemic numbers.

Could you elaborate a bit more? STO is a sci-fi mmo, which is already a kind of niche market itself. However, going a bit further the game is oriented to casual and relaxing gaming, which is not necesarily right or good for masses.

 

I know this is news for some people but there is a universe of players outside these forums that are not examining every detail of a game or make a mmo a huge part of their lives, people that expending $15 a month is neglectable in their budget. I am not saying that STO is a success but I could hardly call it a failure when I see many people enjoy it. Regrettable, I am not one of those people and I am not playing STO but some of my friends play it and they are happy with it. 

You really are comical in your desperate attempts to defend this game. Do you really think they got the rights to make a ST mmo to create a "niche market game"? Are you serious? Give your sad little head a shake.

Not only that, but this whole "oriented to casual and relaxing gaming"  is something they scrambled to come up with long after it was clear the game was in trouble. It was an excuse for releasing the game with such a severe lack of content, continues to be an excuse, and it was a stupid attempt because even back when they came up with it  "casual and relaxed" players were complaining, and are still complaining, about that lack of content. There were 300+ people in our guild just after release that listed themselves as casual and relaxed gamers, and played as such, but were done with the game a month or less after getting it.

 

You can flog that BS as much as you like, but there's enough of us left  from the beginning (and I mean from the very first day Cryptic announced their effort and opened their site) that'll just keep giving you your much needed reality checks.  Neither you, nor Cryptic, is going to get away with changing history there you wannabe McFly.

 

It is a failure because not only is it's population tanking steadily, but it failed to deliver on pretty much everything they stated would be in the game at release, and they continue to fail in adding anything substantial to the game coming on six months after release.

The rights were bought by Cryptic/Atari as far as I know and ST IP owners haven't said anything yet. Anyway, i won't go further into this discussion since it looks it affects people emotions. I concede whatever you were saying  and I encourage you to vent and criticize.