Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by J0K3R_3D

TOR will be the greatest single player MMO ever. So why pay a sub? May as well be F2P, otherwise its a private server for me. Thats if I dont "beat it" in the first month.

 

I think all games are headed to some sort of sub model, even single player. That's why developers are working so hard on the cloud technology.

You can't pirate the cloud, you can't give your old game from teh cloud to your buddy to play.

Very good observation Ihmotepp, and spot on too.  

Originally posted by Gameloading

I think this focus on storytelling is what is going to be the downfal of Star Wars: The Old Republic.

The problem with telling a story in an MMORPG is that players expect to play the game for months to come. Look at games like Mass Effect or Dragon Age. These games take years to develop, yet they are completed in a number of weeks or even days.

The reason why games like WoW have such bad stories in quests is because there are so many of them. I think Bioware will put so much effort into the quality of the cutscenes and dialogue etc at the expense of quantity that players will very soon run out of things to do.

In an MMORPG, the term quality over quantity doesn't really apply.

I believe the developers say the content of TOR is like 7x or 8x that of KOTOR or KOTOR2. How long would a normal player need to finish that? KOTOR has around 60 hrs of gameplay (wikipedia). So we are talking about ~450 hours here. That can easily last a few months, even if you dont count repeatable and pvp content.

You can't use the fastest person as the benchmark. There is one guy who get to L80 after 1 or 2 days of WOTLK releases but most people take 2-4 weeks.

I remember reading somewhere that it'll take around 200 hours of gameplay to get to max level.

You can try to google "swtor 200 hours".  I think that's what Bioware promise and what people is looking for.

Like every MMO that has come before it, the proof will be in the pudding.  I've heard so many promises from MMO developers that haven't lived up to the hype.  SWTOR is no different.  I will play it with the same scrutiny that I would any other MMO.  My expectations are high for MMOs and if it doesn't live up to them, I will simply not play it.  I won't go out and buy some lifetime membership or something like that based on hype.  We'll see if their theories actually work in an MMO environment. 

well actually the world quests are designed around groups they have said a few times that you will need a group to do the world quests and they can't be soloed. but I'm not sure if that will turn out true or not.

I'm just worried that something that is challenging solo will become a joke if you bring a friend or two along.  I ENJOY a challenge, but most MMOs force you to group for some parts and make any solo activity trivial with a group (rather than finding some way to scale up the challenge).

Edit:  To say nothing of the MMOs that make the solo stuff pretty trivial solo and then a borefest as a group.

Hi all

Sorry but i didnt read an negative comment on SWTOR that would be on facts , all are just simpel post from players that are just getting tired of mmos and  with theyre pessimistic way of thinking  trying to destroy any bit of hope fro other players ..

First of all all  mmo  for egs WoW  have generated quests threw some programm only small percantage is made by writers.

Thats why u got mostly suck ass quest go there bring this comeback , kill 1000 of those etz ..

In SW TOR there are currently 12 writters working on story , they are focusing on the story but they dont forget all other aspects of a mmo they just call them diffrent .

From the beginning ive allways heard its subscribtion based game without cs or anything like it and i didnt hear anything aboutit also ...

SW TOR will have space battles which means pvp  i hope also , and battle grounds  plus pve contend.

And we dont know everything yet ...  Its the biggest project bioware has ever made so i dont even think about comparing SW TOR to LOTRO or WAR  not even WoW , becouse its something new that no other mmo will have .

Since noone experienced something like that nobody can really say anything , and some empty statments where i see  comments about a singel player mmo are just prove that someone didnt care to check SW TOR out.

Well anyway ive put all my hopes n to this game if this game sucks ill make a trip to Bioware with a basooka in my hands :/ ...

Lets just see and wait there is allready large group of people waiting for this game few years now  and its suppose to be realeased  beginning 2011 .

"All great ideas look like bad ideas to people who are losers. Its always good to test a new idea with known losers to make sure they don’t like it."

Dogbert

Done and done.

Funny how no one seems to metion LOTRO when talking about story-based MMOs...

Originally posted by Elikal

Its always good to test a new idea with known losers to make sure they don’t like it.

 I don't like that idea.

Originally posted by laokoko

I remember reading somewhere that it'll take around 200 hours of gameplay to get to max level.

You can try to google "swtor 200 hours".  I think that's what Bioware promise and what people is looking for.

 That is 200 hours of your class story arc to max level. So you could ignore the world story arc's and side quests (they will have thousands as stated from comic con) and just solo to max. But you would miss much of the game if you do.

And as far as companions taking player spots from an earlier post. You can only have 1 comanion out at any time. It can help you to solo, but will not take a spot in a group unless you are all very good players and play well together IMO. But they can replace a missing class. So you could have a tank and 3 DPS, then all use your healer comanion to make up for the missing class. Won't be as good, but sounds like it can work. 

Originally posted by Danwarr

Funny how no one seems to metion LOTRO when talking about story-based MMOs...

 That is because it was only about 10% of the quests. The epic quest lines were the story based quests, as well as raids. All other quests were kill x and bring back y. As well as boring combat that put me to sleep while playing.

As soon as your character falls behind in levels to your friends, the game will no longer be a pleasant experience of relaxed gameplay and enjoying the narrative and voiceovers but will instead be a typical grind in a rush to get caught up with the others and clicking through the NPC conversations as fast as possible so you can get back to getting the quests completed as quickly as possible.

Whether you are getting exp from completing storyline quests or from killing X amount of mobs the grind is still there.

Originally posted by Ozivois

As soon as your character falls behind in levels to your friends, the game will no longer be a pleasant experience of relaxed gameplay and enjoying the narrative and voiceovers but will instead be a typical grind in a rush to get caught up with the others and clicking through the NPC conversations as fast as possible so you can get back to getting the quests completed as quickly as possible.

Whether you are getting exp from completing storyline quests or from killing X amount of mobs the grind is still there.

 

Unless you fall 10-15 levels below your friend, there is no reason to start rushing.

I get what they mean by KOTOR. Leveling just happened and i was much more interested in the story and seeing what will happen than a level up. Parts got me wanting a level up for a certain skill but i quickly forgot about that because if the story is good enough it will always get you hooked and forget about the other things.

As long as there is enough content that pleases people it will be fine. Grouping or soloing. Undoubtly there will be parts at end game where you have to group up like other MMO's. People generally quit MMOs because they get bored with nothing to do but the same old crap, if you can make a grind enjoyable and end game content enjoyable, fun and a lot to do then your golden tbh.

Originally posted by artemisentr4

Originally posted by Danwarr

Funny how no one seems to metion LOTRO when talking about story-based MMOs...

 That is because it was only about 10% of the quests. The epic quest lines were the story based quests, as well as raids. All other quests were kill x and bring back y. As well as boring combat that put me to sleep while playing.

Well just about every quest has about a short-story worth of text to go along with it. I think the difference here is that ToR is going to be fully voiced.

Also, ToR is going to have "kill ten rats" quests. The only difference will be, again, fully voiced.

Turbine did change combat recently to a bit faster pace but still not "zomgineedztofacerollmahkeyboardzz!!" levels. And judging by the gameplay videos neither is ToR.

Originally posted by Danwarr

Originally posted by artemisentr4

Originally posted by Danwarr

Funny how no one seems to metion LOTRO when talking about story-based MMOs...

 That is because it was only about 10% of the quests. The epic quest lines were the story based quests, as well as raids. All other quests were kill x and bring back y. As well as boring combat that put me to sleep while playing.

Well just about every quest has about a short-story worth of text to go along with it. I think the difference here is that ToR is going to be fully voiced.

 

Also, ToR is going to have "kill ten rats" quests. The only difference will be, again, fully voiced.

You have the World Quests that resemble more the regular quests.

I expect the class story quests to resemble more the quests and missions like they were done in Mass Effect 2, with being fully voiced, but also with the cinematic feel, the dialogue wheel, the way you can interrupt the dialogue and the longer-term consequences the actions you take in the dialogues have, all things you don't see in as good all the other MMO's.

On top of that, you have the Companions that interact in the quest dialogues and they and their relation with you will change based on the decisions you make in the quests. Also, when you group up everyone participates in the quest dialogue. Those are features that applies to the World Quests and world arcs too.

Sounds to me that there are enough differences with LotrO and other MMO's, and maybe/hopefully enough to make it feel less like all the quests are the same - FedEx, kill x of y, etc -  with different text tagged on to it like with a lot of other MMO's.

Originally posted by cyphers

Originally posted by Danwarr

Originally posted by artemisentr4

Originally posted by Danwarr

Funny how no one seems to metion LOTRO when talking about story-based MMOs...

 That is because it was only about 10% of the quests. The epic quest lines were the story based quests, as well as raids. All other quests were kill x and bring back y. As well as boring combat that put me to sleep while playing.

Well just about every quest has about a short-story worth of text to go along with it. I think the difference here is that ToR is going to be fully voiced.

 

Also, ToR is going to have "kill ten rats" quests. The only difference will be, again, fully voiced.

You have the World Quests that resemble more the regular quests.

I expect the class story quests to resemble more the quests and missions like they were done in Mass Effect 2, with being fully voiced, but also with the cinematic feel, the dialogue wheel, the way you can interrupt the dialogue and the longer-term consequences the actions you take in the dialogues have, all things you don't see in as good all the other MMO's.

 

On top of that, you have the Companions that interact in the quest dialogues and they and their relation with you will change based on the decisions you make in the quests. Also, when you group up everyone participates in the quest dialogue. Those are features that applies to the World Quests and world arcs too.

 

Sounds to me that there are enough differences with LotrO and other MMO's, and maybe/hopefully enough to make it feel less like all the quests are the same - FedEx, kill x of y, etc -  with different text tagged on to it like with a lot of other MMO's.

When it comes right down to it, the bare bones of the quests are going to be FedEx and kill xy style quests. The only difference, like you said, is going to be the amount of player interaction with the quest and the dialogue.

What I hope the dialogue will do is make the quests immerse people  in the world more than a wall of text can. I've noticed that if I have taken the time to read quests I find little things that can make me laugh or better understand the whole of what is going in the game world. What ToR will do, hopefully, is make it that a cinematic experience rather than a reading experience.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

 

For the solo vs group thing, I think of it like this.

Solo players get jealous of group players earn more XP in groups than they do solo. But if you make the entire game soloable for the same xp, it pretty much dumbs it down for the groupers until there's no challenge.

In this case, the conflict will not be over XP, but story content.

Group players will get reward with more Story, instead of more XP, which will make the game feel challenging, to get through all the group story content.

There needs to be SOME reason to group.

I kill a Mob and get 10 xp.

Ok, let's group, kill two Mobs, and get 10 xp each.

Why? What's the point? None.

In decent grouping games the "point" is, we get 15 XP each instead of 10, and have to use different tactics to get it, and the mob is tougher than either of us could kill alone.

In this game the "point" of grouping will be you get to access the world story. 

 I don't know about any of this.   I solo because I despise the inconveniences of grouping.    I am very much looking forward to this game not just because I loved the first KOTORs and enjoy Bioware's storytelling.   I am looking forward to it because you will be able to play your entire storyline out without once being required to group!    Oh happy day!

Originally posted by SwampRob

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

 

For the solo vs group thing, I think of it like this.

Solo players get jealous of group players earn more XP in groups than they do solo. But if you make the entire game soloable for the same xp, it pretty much dumbs it down for the groupers until there's no challenge.

In this case, the conflict will not be over XP, but story content.

Group players will get reward with more Story, instead of more XP, which will make the game feel challenging, to get through all the group story content.

There needs to be SOME reason to group.

I kill a Mob and get 10 xp.

Ok, let's group, kill two Mobs, and get 10 xp each.

Why? What's the point? None.

In decent grouping games the "point" is, we get 15 XP each instead of 10, and have to use different tactics to get it, and the mob is tougher than either of us could kill alone.

In this game the "point" of grouping will be you get to access the world story. 

 I don't know about any of this.   I solo because I despise the inconveniences of grouping.    I am very much looking forward to this game not just because I loved the first KOTORs and enjoy Bioware's storytelling.   I am looking forward to it because you will be able to play your entire storyline out without once being required to group!    Oh happy day!

Actually 8 different stories, if you play all the different classes.

But I think you will miss out on the world story, if you exclusively solo. But you will do your solo story, and get to the level cap.

The devs explained it like, Luke goes to Degaba to train with Yoda.

That's your Jedi story, and you can do that solo.

But there's also a battle on Hoth. you probably need some friends to help with that. Or you can skip it.

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Originally posted by Ihmotepp

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Originally posted by uquipu
 

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Originally posted by Papadam
So why will it be the end of solo vs group??
 
And to bad you cant play it Ihmotepp since its going to have microtransactions :p

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SWTOR is going to have a cash shop? Seriously?

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The devs won't say exactly what they have planned until closer to release when it comes to a cash shop. They won't say there's a cash shop where you can buy XP potions, they won't say there is not a cash shop where yuo can buy xp potions.
So there is rampant speculation, everything from no cash shop, to only fluff, to OMG! it will be subscription with a full cash shop of uber items! ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it will be the end of solo versus group, because you won't be playing for XP. The XP will be secondary to doing the story.
.....

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Cash Shop/Store/MT or Not is the question for me. Everything else about SW:TOR I think I would enjoy.

But if there is a CashShop/Store/MT the question about solo vs. group is irrelevant... the answer will be No.