Originally posted by cyphers and modified by me :)

EVE: more freedom (sandbox), massive and strategic warfare with lasting consequences

(older than wow, really non-user-friendly UI. This can never beat wow)

LotrO: larger world, more emphasis on quest lines storywise, more mature community.

(Going F2P, shows how well the game is doing now i guess. Not a chance)

Aion: better/less cartoony graphics, highly detailed characters and character animations, zone PvP (Abyss) and siege warfare.

(Good ideas, lying PR, 50% of the potential userbase lost forever)

AoC: better, more realistic graphics, dynamic melee combat, more mature quests and atmosphere in quests

(lying PR, buggy lauch, not as advertised, 1990 structure. Graphics aren't everything, and having a chat filled with WOW i can see boobs, isnt what i'd call a mature community. With a potential of 2 million users, i`d be surprised if there's even 500k still playing this game.)

Vanguard: massive world

(vanguard.station.SONY.com, this company is like Funcom, too many deceptions, not many will play their games)

APB, CO: more advanced character customisation

(APB is a shooter, it shouldnt even be considered in the same market as WoW)

 

Expectations of upcoming MMO's to beat WoW in several aspects:

GW2: dynamic events, world vs world PvP, more tactical team combat dynamics, team combos, graphics

(by far the most hyped, most promising, but the past should teach you that promises are nice, but until you live up to them, they are worth nothing. Still the most promising.)

SW:ToR: massive worlds, more storytelling immersion, more flexible team combat dynamics

(E.A. has scrapped many IPs in the past by forcing releases before they are ready. Dont be surprised if it happens again. However, this game looks more like a MSPORPG (sp = single player). This, however, is the biggest IP out there, dont count it out)

The Secret World: very atmospheric theme/setting, graphics, team combos, no level grind

(Funcom, again, scrapped the Conan IP, companies that scrap IPs have lots of players that wont even bother no matter what)

Tera, Vindictus: more action oriented combat, in case of Vindictus use of environment, graphics

(How many wow clones have succeeded in the past 6 years? 0? Yes you are right, and it wont change, players want something NEW. Not the same game with different names on abilities and areas.)

 

FFXIV could do well too, but not in the capacity to beat WoW, at least not outside the Asian market.

(this game focuses on their old players having to start over again rather than reaching out for a new market. A huge mistake in my opinion.)

Impossible to tell right now if one of the upcoming MMO's will be able to 'beat' WoW overall, although GW2, SW:TOR, (fixing this part by editing it out) have the potential to become large and highly successful.

Go to the "games list" close your eyes and randomly pick a game.  Chances are it will be the answer to your question.

Originally posted by BlackWatch

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

 

 

Everything dealing with WoW is now done with third party apps, takes all of the feeling of a game out of it and more of a follow the bouncing ball type of game play. Hey this raid app tells me to move over here now, ok.   Using the 3rd Party applications are a choice.  You should say that Blizz offers the ability and option to modify their UI... something a lot of other games don't do, but probably should!  I have played a lot of games that had really bad UI's, and it was against their TOS/EULA to mod their UI. 

 

The Majority of guilds require their players to use third party apps, that takes out a lot of the choice. A lot of the best items in game come from group forced raids, when someone in the group uses an app that tells then what to do, and then directs the group, it is the same as everyone using it. When other people make the choice to use such apps and get the best items in game far easier, it is annoying to those who don't.

 

People love to use the "choice" excuse in MMOs, but truthfully everyone knows it isn't that simple. The main thing most people want out of MMOs is for everyone to be on even footing. So buying gold, using apps etc. gives people an advantage over others, which makes those not doing such things more likely to quit.

 

• WoW charges a subscription fee, an expansion pack fee, and sells items in a store. I don't like being triple charged for one game.  Nobody forces you to buy the items from the store.  They are cosmetic.  The costs of development, testing, and supporting their game is incredible.  Sure, they have loads of subscribers... and they also have loads of subscribers to support! 

              It is the same as above, it's not as simple as saying "You have a choice" it isn't how it works and you know this. But it is the excuse people are quick to throw out when they want to defend their game at all costs. If anyone is ever able to spend more money and get more things in a game, then my "choice" is to not play that game ever. One cost, everyone pays it, everyone has equal access to the same things. That is the only type of game I will pay for, ever.

 

• Combat that is based off hitting 3 2 1 1 5 1 3 4 in the same pattern everytime isn't skill, it's boring.   Play a different character?  Diff class?  Melee vs ranged... tank vs healer...   Sure, I get what you're saying though.  I know that once you find the optimal rotation, that's what you do each and every time.  Amazing that I did the same thing with free throws in basketball, my golf swing, the way I swung a bat, and ... you get the point.

              You picked examples that aren't accurate. Your examples show a situation where you alone are doing something and there are no other forces involved against you. A better example would be to learn a specific run pattern in football and then use it every time. If you tried that, after one or two times you would get slammed to the ground every single time. Thus the challenge of out thinking and strategic plans come into play. But in WoW those things never come into play, it is the same boring number combos all the time. To add on to this, you can't physically dodge in WoW, if something is shot at you, or if someone swings at you, it will hit you if it's going to hit you. I prefer games like Asheron's Call where I have to pay attention and move out of the way of the giant fireball coming at me, not just stand there and wonder if my evade roll will win or not.

 

 

• WoW is a rush to end game, I prefer games that are about the journey.  If you want to turn into the rush to end game, then that's what it is.  I know a lot of people that do take their time playing.  People get caught up and try to be competitive with leveling, gear, etc.,.. They get the 'I wants'.  Well, set your personal goals and go for them. 

             In WoW, unlike other games, it isn't really a "choice" you get to make. The game is 100% designed around end game, that is the sole purpose of the game. In other games the design is around the journey and fun, so you pick a speed and go with it. In WoW the game is basically holding you back when you're not end game since that is where the design focus is. I hate games that are designed around end game, regardless of what speed I choose to get there.

 

• WoW forced all accounts to start using their e-mail as their account name causing the number of hacked accounts to sky rocket, no thanks.  WoW didn't force anyone to do this.  People that can't secure their systems + gold farmers that want to strip your characters and sell the gold = bad situation.  Blizz is stuck here.  They try to battle the gold farmers but they can't do sh*t to them in China... not really.   They can ban their accounts as quickly as they find them, but there is only so much they can do. And no, Blizz isn't responsible for securing your system for you.  What can they do?  Offer a way to secure YOUR ACCOUNT for their game. 

             Typical wrong defense that WoW lovers have been using lately. They ignore the fact that a significant portion of the accounts were inactive at the switch and not being logged in to, but were hacked anyways. This had nothing to do with personal security, it has to do with a very very weak system that WoW put in place. This issue didn't exist anywhere near the extent it does now that they switched over to the battlenet system. To deny this is just being blind.

• Extremely Linear, you follow the quests it tells you or you just click dungeon finder over and over again. I prefer an open world with lots to do and I can find which things interest me.  There are games like this out there, but most of them have failed... or at least failed to be as successful as WoW.  Which, apparently to most people = failure.  I used to enjoy a certain sandbox game a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away (pre deathblow via CU/NGE).   That was fun... but a lot of people got bored with that, too. 

             As I said in my first post on here, it wasn't nearly as much the design of WoW that led to it's success, it was the timing. I used HALO as another example of this. HALO brought NOTHING to the FPS genre, it just stole from those that had come before (even green space marines I mean come on at least try). It wasn't even the first major FPS to be released on a console. What it was, though, was the first FPS to be put onto the XBox, a very popular system. And it was the first FPS to target a whole new generation of gamers who had never played any of the other FPS games, so naturally they thought it was the most amazing game ever. WoW was the first MMO for a lot of people. People had been hearing about MMOs for a few years, and this new one WoW was out, well let's try it and find out. Other people thought MMOs were for nerds, but they did enjoy that strategy game Warcraft, let's try it out. Then those people had their non-gamer friends try out WoW, people who had never touched an MMO before, some had never really played many games at all. Just like everyone else, being the first MMO they played, they thought it was amazing. Timing is everything. 

Nothing really beats WOW in terms of subscribers or polish. However WOW has one major problem most MMO's don't have (for the most part), account hacking/security issues. Their policies on it are a tad ridiculous as well, making people pay for others bounced payments (when they know the account was stolen). They give absolutely no security to the player in the form of responsibility for such occurances. It's most likely due to the fact WOW is extremely popular, still IMO they should be doing far more in regard to this than they are. It seems they just sweep this issue under their rug and in large part forget about it, then they want to charge players who really have no control over this issue (for their bad luck).

You can argue over who has the best game until you're blue in the face, or who has the most polished features. In the end WOW has the biggest game breaking issue known to any MMO, one that results in the worst possible scenario, you can't play.

"Not being a fanboy but what beats WoW?"

At what? Accessability or subscription numbers? I don't think any MMORPG does.

• There are MMO's with better graphics (age of Conan for example)
• There are MMO's with better art. (really anything but Alganon and few other copy cats)
• There are MMO's with more depth (EVE, Fallen Earth, EQII for example, hell even SWG)
• There are better MMO's for raw PvP (GW, EVE, DAoC for example)
• There are better MMO's for customization (really anything)
• There are more challenging MMO's (EVE, AoC, Fallen Earth for example)
• There are MMO's with better worlds (SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, EQII just name a few)
• There are better MMO's at social aspects
• There are MMO's with better more mature lore.
• There are better MMO's for simulating economies...

In the numeric sense, nothing "beats" WoW but what is the point of "beating it"? Many games are better in many different areas of play.

Originally posted by Torak

"Not being a fanboy but what beats WoW?"

 

At what? Accessability or subscription numbers? I don't think any MMORPG does.

• There are MMO's with better graphics (age of Conan for example)
• There are MMO's with better art. (really anything but Alganon and few other copy cats)
• There are MMO's with more depth (EVE, Fallen Earth, EQII for example, hell even SWG)
• There are better MMO's for raw PvP (GW, EVE, DAoC for example)
• There are better MMO's for customization (really anything)
• There are more challenging MMO's (EVE, AoC, Fallen Earth for example)
• There are MMO's with better worlds (SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, EQII just name a few)
• There are better MMO's at social aspects
• There are MMO's with better more mature lore.
• There are better MMO's for simulating economies...

All bizzard has done is target the achievment orientated player building on the b-net crowd and hang onto them with a zillion point gathering set ups over the years. 

In the numeric sense, nothing "beats" WoW but what is the point of "beating it"? Many games are better in many different areas of play.

I'm quoting you, but I'm also talking to all the other people in this thread who apparently only read the thread title and did not read the OP's post. He goes on to say which game beats WoW in terms of polish (like how fluid it runs, and put together everything is). 

Agree for how everything in wow is polished and fits together WoW wins.

Of course it helps that wow is both relatively simple in features and has such a large gap between new content additions giving them lots of time to polish new features.

I dunno why people get so up in arms about there mmog of choice especially WoW players.I won't and never have limited myself to just swearing alliegience to one game.WoW is a good game no doubt about it.I would say AO,Daoc,Lotro,Eq2,AC1,and I could go on and on are good mmogs also.I will play anything I think might be fun.I think Catalysm from all I have seen is really gonna suck it seems rushed and alot of the features have been cut as well.I really after 5.5 years of WoW have no desire to lvl another character up to see there shiny new quests and starter zones.(not to mention after 5.5 years all my char slots are full)

 Content wise Eq2 10000% BURIES WoW.Its not even close Eq2 came out maybe 2 weeks before WoW if that? They have given away more in free content and updates than WoW has had paid expansions.Throw in the Eq2 expansion and Adventure packs and it really shows you how slow Blizzard is on releasing expansions and content.And no the Eq2 content wasn't buggy or pieces of crap put in yes I am sure was some bugs but nothing more than you see in a WoW patch.I really feel Activision buying Blizzard is going to end up being the undoing of it and it's stronghold on the mmog market.Bioware has as much respect in the gamin community as Blizzard did/does if ANYONE is gonna compete with Blizzard it will def be bioware which in the end is good for ALL of us gamers no matter if your a wow fanboi or a wow hater compeittion is good and WoW hasn't had any ever in 5.5 years they need some much like Eq1 needed some years ago.

In terms of subs or polish, I'd have to say no one.

In terms of game play mechanics that I personally enjoy, several games actually, and that far outweighs the two major things that WOW has going for it in determining what I play.

I play both WoW and EVE in parallel and each has its strong points. In eve for a game with no levels its amazing how long and deep the progression of your character is.

the fact that i change my mind every few months based on what mood I'm in and I don't have to start over is a big plus. In WoW though there's a floor and things I kill easily and especially big things that I kill easily. In eve I seem to be constantly alligned and running away from NPCs.

EVE crafting, however is amazing whereas WOW crafting is...uninteresting. and often not very useful except 2-3 endgame items. a 264 plate for example has no problem selling but pre-80 stuff, hell, even low level stuff is nearly useless. In EVE I payed for a few ships for crafting and making a very basic item that shoots a tractor beam bringing ship wrecks and cargo containers closer to your ship.

I'd say WoW crafting is seriously lacking. I wont get into things like instant travel and the community. my very specific example is crafting which in wow is very far from perfect.

better than Aion's though. No crafting system at all is better than Aion's.

What beats WoW? I quit because I played the game for 4 years and figured I have played the game. So essentially long gameplay is a reason for everybody to let something else take over. Besides that, what beats WoW?

- many, many communities of other mmorpg's where you don't have to deal with social fails and their pedobears, NO YOU, omg your gear sucks, look at my 5 million minipets, "BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK TO DO"

- paying for a mount and a non-combat pet. I mean, come on. This is not a player anymore enjoying a developer's game, this is a &*^&% marketing department sucking the money out of the player.

- mmorpg's with marketing less focused on addiction

- mmorpg's with more professions on a character

- mmorpg's that let you switch easily between classes without having to play the whole game again in terms of leveling. really what would the harm be in players being able to change from Druid to Mage? save me your reasons, there's a solution for every problem.

etc. etc.

WoW is smooth, it looks pretty. Surprisingly no mmorpg developer has yet achieved to match these two features as good as WoW has done. Let me ask you, what is really SO MUCH FUN about people ranting in trade chat and not even being banned?

For smoothness of animation I agree with the OP, WoW is tops...is it the best game, thats totally an opinion.

I will add that AoC is very close to WoW in animation smoothness and and overall feel of the game and IMO a better game overall., but at the momentI am playing WoW(mainly becuase my kids love it) as my main game with Fallen Earth as my secondary game, FE isnt as smooth but seems to be getting better every main patch.

Sex beats WoW!

Originally posted by Sanguinelust

Sex beats WoW!

 Is it F2P?

I played WoW for months, and after that i played some games like Lotro (still playing) and AoC.

I think that Lotro have a great PvE , better but not large as WoW have... i prefer it, cause WoW takes lot of time to level up and even to do instance... i know that now is different, but still i don't like it.

So, for me, Lotro and AoC beats WoW.

And i didn't try many other games... but i think that many games beats WoW :D

EQ2 is starting to become more like WoW but it doesn't have cartoonish graphics and the mages doesn't ook like some anime freak tanks.

Eq2 is also more deep if you are into lore stuff but I suppose the general crowd aren't interested in such things.

Lets be 100% clear here, the OP is right. No one game is better than WoW. Of that there is no doubt. (we all know this deep inside)

No other game can match the polish, the content, the number of players, the ease of play etc etc etc.

You may not like the game but that does not mean it is not the best. You may be tired of playing WoW but that does not meant it is not the best either. Without needing to get into an argument about it, the sheer numbers of people who play it (or who have played it for years on end) point this fact (and no Macdonalds < Steak arguments please as it does not wash).

What Blizzard has done with WoW many other developers/producers have tired and failed as there is no one single game that can match WoW in the past 7 years, I say that again 7 years and no other game can match it!?! LOTROL, GW and a few others have tired and failed, so give credit where credit is due please.

Having said that I stopped playing WoW over two years ago now as i am tired of it and do not like the way it has turned out, but i had many good years playing it and will not now turn around and put it down.

The challenge remains for another dev/producer to make a game as good as wow. We are waiting to see that still, and when it comes we will all know about it.

Going out and having an adventure in real life beats WOW every time.

That depends on the type of gamer. WoW haters might say almost anything so you might not get the best answers from every player.

What beats Wow? Sex with a real live woman.

This conversations over.