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7/20/10 12:38:31 PM#141
Originally posted by Arletta Because WOW is the most popular MMORPG by far. As a result, there are far more gold farmers for it than any other game. As a result of that, there are far more people attempting to hack accounts for WoW than any other game. It is simple business... |
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7/20/10 12:39:53 PM#142
You are right. A "Capitalistic" company sells your personal information illegally and without you knowing it. ---------------- |
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7/20/10 12:40:18 PM#143
Originally posted by blackthornn While I have no love for the RealID crap, I have no doubt that Blizzard is responsible for 0.0000000001% of all "hacks" against WoW accounts There may be a case of a disgruntled Blizzard employee with access to the character database doing something nefarious. I don't doubt it could happen. HOWEVER, 99.99999999999% of all hacks are the user's fault. Nothing Blizzard does is "hacked", the stupid user downloaded some mods or gave out their account info to a "friend".... THAT is how accounts are "hacked". There's no hacking involved. Just easily duped idiots who like Facebook and give crap out or install anything that comes along. Accounts I have/had: EQ1: 4, for 5 years. Never had one hacked. WoW: 1 for 5 years. Never had it hacked. Eve: 2 for 6 years. Never had one hacked. LOTRO: 1 for 2 years. Never had it hacked. WW2 Online: 1 for 9 years. Never had it hacked. AoC: 1 for 2 years. Never had it hacked. Aion: 1 for 1 year. Never had it hacked. Other accounts of various lengths: Global Agenda, APB, L2 (2 accounts), AO, DAOC, Shadowbane, COH, Champions.... Never had them hacked. Frickin' amazing isn't it? Then again, I also don't bother with firewalls beyond my router/windows firewall, no AV.... and I never get adware/spyware/virus/trojans either (20th year on the internet). How is this possible? Because I'm not a frickin' idiot. |
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7/20/10 12:40:20 PM#144
Originally posted by medmarijuana Okay this is utter BS. Blizzard did not share your username, password or credit card information with ANY other company. Stop spreading unfounded lies please... YOU shared that information with hackers. It is your own fault... pure and simple. I know the truth hurts. |
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7/20/10 12:41:26 PM#145
Originally posted by medmarijuana You really have reading or comprehension issues. WE ARE NOT TRYING TO FIND A SCAPEGOAT, NOT DO WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO FAULT ANY PERSON. we are just discussing how hacking occur and so far, no evidence, no solid evidence. You really wear a thick tainted eyeglass that blocks all reading. If you do not care to read. why quote and reply? Ah maybe that is your habit, or you are trying to pick a fight or gain attention. |
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7/20/10 12:43:07 PM#146
Originally posted by medmarijuana
That's not good enough for you? They looked at all the feedback and decided against it. Do you want a personal apology or something? I've never heard of Blizzard selling my personal information to anyone. Can you elaborate on that please?
I disagreed with the RealID system, and they changed it. I really have no further reason to think Blizzard are a bunch of "communists from China" as you so eloquently put it. |
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7/20/10 12:44:19 PM#147
Originally posted by Arletta Seriously I think it falls under the risk verses reward catagory. Its the largest game, so the most potential customers for buying gold. Take into account the amount of people working towards stealing accounts, lets say its all one company, at least 60% are working on wow accounts and the other 40% are working on all other games. (These numbers are pulled out of my ass, but its just a guess.) so for each game you play other than wow, lets say 1% of the total hackers are working on that game. your chances to be hacked in another game are practically zero. BUT it does happen. WoW on the other hand, you have alot higher chance, although, it should also be noted, that there are so many more people playing it does dilute chances some. Just not enough. That is just a shot in the dark, if I was running the syndicate type of thinking answer, might not be why, but it could be all the same. |
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CulannHS
Novice Member
Joined: 9/16/08
"I know you think you heard what I said but I''m not sure what you heard is what I meant." |
7/20/10 12:44:23 PM#148
The misinformation in this thread is so great it borders on comic lunacy.
Let's sort some things out real fast.
Blizzard's database being hacked is technically possible, but that falls into such a unlikely case that we can still write it off as impossible. Why? Because were Blizzard's DB actually compromised, the hackers would still run into the problems of being able to determine what field relates to what information, and additionally, account passwords are encrypted IN the database so even if the hacker could find the right field, it's going to be gibberish encrypted by a custom algorithm produced by Blizzard. And all of this is provided that a potential hacker CAN penetrate the security surrounding a server and make it to the DB to begin with.
Alot of people think Blizzard is making money from the authenticators. For US citizens, the keyfob authenticator is $6.00, which seems initially like a influx of money. However in the case of the keyfobs the authenticators have free shipping, and there's a minimum amount that Blizzard is required to pay to just ship that to the customer. Combine that minimum amount with the packaging and employee packing times (wages, etc) and it shouldn't take much brainpower to realize they aren't using it as a cash cow.
More than likely, the execs at Blizzard realized they were spending MORE money on time spent in recovering hacked accounts, so introduced the authenticator as a means of lowering that cost. Or in short, they're still paying for this issue, but due to the authenticator, just not as much.
One other thing. There was a comment about how no other companies are using something like the authenticator to bolster account security. That's more than likely true or close to true at any rate. However show me another MMO with WoW's subscription rates, number of players worldwide, while you're at it. Otherwise your argument collapses under the weight of it's own jurisdiction. Quite simply when you're as large as WoW is, you're going to become a prime target for malicious activity. And when there's between 6-10 million potential options for you to choose from if you're a hacker, obviously it's going to require something above and beyond the vanilla security you see in most MMOs.
If you must, compare it with the analogy of big city crime and the small rural town. Basically, yes WoW is so popular and so large, that they are a far larger target than other MMOs and because the potential is there and because some customers are potentially easy to compromise, there are more reports of hacked accounts and the like.
Someone mentioned about gold sellers getting their account info after they quit the game, and how they think it was unlikely it was their fault since they weren't playing anymore. Let's clear that up. Just because you aren't playing NOW, doesn't mean that when you did, a keylogger was on your machine and piped your information back to the gold seller / hacker to sit on. If you take a keylogger and spread it to a potential 6-10 million people, chances are it will return a large amount of data back.
As in, hundreds, and likely thousands. A gold seller isn't going to know what's on your account from your compromised information. They ARE however, going to see it as a potential resource and make use of it when they get to it on their list. This is quite literally no different in concept from the 80s phenomenon hackers made use of called "carding" where stolen credit card numbers were hoarded for the purpose of making illicit purchases.
Addons. If a addon makes use of a executable file, it can potentially compromise your account if it's infected with a keylogger. But let's think for a moment here. When you start WoW (Or most any MMO) you start at a patch screen, then move to a login screen, then a character select screen then on into the game proper. How is a addon for WoW supposed to compromise your login information when it's not activated until after the character select screen? As the addon is a LUA text file, that's just impossible, plain and simple.
The ONLY way a addon can do so if it's part of a executable that contains a carrier for a keylogger or trojan or other nasty that is activated on installation/use and gains your information as you log into the game after the patch screen.
Account security. Let's touch on that a moment. First, there's tons of utilities out there to find spyware and other nastiness. Guess what? These companies are all in competition with each other for your business, to some degree. Some like AVG and others offer free versions, but there's also the registered version which does more that comes at the price of a monetary fee. Why is this crucial? Because..not all of these utilities share the same capacity to search for the same things. There, the cat is out. If you use AVG, there might be a keylogger or other piece of malware that AVG won't find, but another virus program might. Spybot might not find what's on yoru machine, but Malware Bytes will.
If you're not getting the picture yet, let me put it in simple terms: There's no 100% way to keep something off your machine by employing these sorts of utilities. They help, but they do not make your machine sterile and immune to malware. So what's a person to do? Practice some common sense. If you must visit sites for addons, do so from another PC, and move the addon to your PC with a USB drive or other storage medium. When you surf the web, do not do so indiscriminately. Think about what you're doing and what can potentially infest your machine.
Pracice some common sense with passwords. Gibberish passwords that make sense to you, are superior to flat english (or your native language) words. In other words, "I like cherry pie in the sky" becomes ILCPITS69. Don't use the same passowrd for everything. Separate email accounts and maintain a account for your game that is individual from your regular email accounts for everyday activities. Gmail is free, so is hotmail, and configured properly they are more than suitable for game accounts.
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Ultimately the security of your account within the confines of your PC is your duty, not the game companies out there. They've long since realized the things I've pointed out here, especially with regards to virus scanners, malware checkers, etc. No program is going to find everything that can potentially compromise your account, and they realize that. All they can hope to do is set a policy in place, and urge their customers to be safe and use safe computing habits.
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Finally, a bit about me so the reader can get some potential perspective on this post. I've played approximately 18 MMOs now, starting with day 1 of EQ1 and hitting some of the fond memories out there like Earth and Beyond, Horizons, Neocron as well. To date, with accounts in all 18 MMOs, I have never been hacked in any of them. Ever. Period. Flawless record. And it is because I take my own advice and practice safe computing as a matter of habit.
In regards to the more technical aspects here, I've got a college degree in programming with focus on database engineering, which includes but is not limited to architecture, development, upgrades maintainence, and the transport of data from one database format / OS platform / medium to another. Databases are what I do, quite simply. The point above about passwords being encrypted is covered as a basic premise in class early on. Do not leave sensitive data in any database unencrypted for potential abuse should that database be compromised. I'm sure Blizzard's programmers are far smarter than I am, and ergo, already know this as a basic matter of practice.
Any rate, let's focus less on it being the game companies' fault for accounts being hacked, and more on practicing safe ways to keep our machines as clean as possible with the ultimate intent of making life a miserable hell for the gold sellers / account hackers out there, eh?
I know you think you heard what I said, but I'm not sure what you heard is what I meant. |
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7/20/10 12:46:19 PM#149
Originally posted by Anubisan I never had my blizzard account hacked. I neve had any account hacked. I have a personal grudge against blizzard and their regime. Trying to impliment the systems like that of china. Trying to sell your private information to the highest bidder. It's not just blizzard that I have a problem with, they have just become the face of the companies that get away with tthis sort of thing. This really isn't an axe to be grinded with blizzard rather than all the companies that decide it is alright to invade your privacy and that your information is theirs to be sold.
Only reason I am here on these forums talking about it, is because most other companies do not have a platform for me to work off of. This board gives me a platform to stir up my privacy matters agenda.
Really, blizzard is just the new face of all the companies that think it is alright to sell your private information to the world, and then you have people calling you or spamming your email with their crappy ads you don't want. Or when you go to apply for a job or an apt, you have to pay 10-20 dollars for some company that has no business having all your personal information to begin with, to mail your potential employer a background check..
However I have had my identity stolen, and this sort of business practices are the cause of my identity being stolen. Maybe it had nothing to do with blizzard, but it was a company that was doing the same kind of thing. I still am being affected by it to this day. I have lousy credit. All because some company thought it was ok to sell my private information. |
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7/20/10 12:47:16 PM#150
Originally posted by Anubisan He has no proof, he is only shouting angry accusations and throwing tomatoes at everyone who do not agrees with him. People must agree with him, or be enemies. If he cannot find evidence, someone he hates must be at fault, unless he can find evidence to the contrary, and he is expecting us to give the evidence to him as an obligation. |
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7/20/10 12:52:30 PM#151
Originally posted by medmarijuana Ok case confirmed, you have a personal agenda against blizz, none of my business. I hardly know who you are. You line of logic is flawed. You knowledge is total nonsense, you know nothng about china, just a personal agenda I guess. Show us a link of blizz to china. If it is your personal agenda again, ok understood. Show us evidence that Blizz is auctioning our private information to the highest bidder, and well what valuable information have you given to blizzard anyway? If I want information, I would not bother come to a game forum or a game provider for them, client list of banks, or private cell phones, are way more valuable,. Well, until you have better logic and more accurate information to base your arguements, feel free to rant your personal agendas. It is something very important to you. |
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7/20/10 12:53:20 PM#152
Normally I'd chalk getting hacked up to user error, but this is absolutely ridiculous. Take a look at the support forum some time and see for yourself. Something foul is afoot. edit: And FFS, learn to stop pyramid quoting, people. Page 3 is a mess. |
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7/20/10 12:55:44 PM#153
Originally posted by uohaloran
Out of a few million subscribers how many of those do you think know anything about computer security aside from what Norton tells them? |
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7/20/10 12:57:47 PM#154
Originally posted by uohaloran
Yes, the fact that my 12 year old sister is playing WoW. Nowadays the phising sites are 100% identical to the real thing. How many of the ~11 million WoW subscribers do you think are ever aware that these sites exist?
I agree on the edit :D ---------------- |
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7/20/10 12:58:25 PM#155
Originally posted by Li-Su That's fine, if you want to continue to subscribe to a game where the company does not respect you or your privacy, that is your business.
I must say that there are plenty of other games and companies out there where they do respect thier customers, you should give them a try. WoW has been around for years it is old news now. |
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7/20/10 12:59:20 PM#156
I quit WoW for this very reason I personally know of three people who had there accounts hacked. Bliz made the worst mistake by making everyone use there email address as there log in. Then when you get hacked they shut the account down the hacker who used his credit card to play on your account denys charges to WoW and your left owing them a month of service that some idiot used to farm on. Security is too lax so after many years of playing the game I have thrown it in the garbage and there it will stay.
Dealk |
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7/20/10 1:02:24 PM#157
I love when this hapens people point fingers at blizzard. It isn't Blizzard's fault you got your account stolen. 99% of the time it is our own fault. Blizzard doesn't have to help you get it back, they do it out of customer service sake. Speaking of, the OP did it wrong. When I got my account stolen.. twice, I emailed them and both times had it resolved in a day. I never even attempted to call them because I know how large companies operate. They almost always have large hold time. The only way they would not have hold time is if they had 30,000 call center agents. That is not realistic. Most large companies have, at most, 5,000-10,000 worldwide. That is for the largest companies, like Dell. I expect WoW has 1,000-3,000 at most. Maybe less. I was hacked twice before they made the change with the email. The way the keyloggers do it.. it makes no difference if you use your email address or not. NO difference. They have the same difficulty either way, so don't even try to blame the email addresses. Just the act of logging into the game gives them the info they need. They would have the info they need from that even if the email addresses were not used to log in. The iPhone authenticator is free, if you don't have that and you DO have a cell you could still probably get a mobile authenticator for 99 cents. Go here if you have a cell to find out if yours is compatible. http://mobile.blizzard.com/us-en/support-compat.html If it is compatible you can get the authenticator by going to http://mobile.blizzard.com on your cell phone and clicking the authenticator link in the middle If you cell is not compatible, then you will need to get the physical one. Before you say anything, no, blizzard is not forcing you to buy it. They offer it as a courtesy and make no direct money off if it. Any cost for the authenticator is to cover the cost of creating or distributing that one unit. They make NO profit from it. The people who are trying to make a profit are the ones who try to buy out the blizzard store and sell them all on ebay for $40 each. |
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7/20/10 1:03:49 PM#158
Regardless, something so rampant should be handled by Blizzard. Isn't it sort of funny that what was supposed to be the solution to preemptive hacking will actually restrict some users from playing? Mandatory authenticators would have fixed this. They're not taking a hard stance against hacking at all and pretty much turning a blind eye to it. Blizzard has the power to fix it, so why don't they? |
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7/20/10 1:06:09 PM#159
It's impossible to fix stupidity. They have authenticators for sale. If people are concerned or aren't comfortable with computer security the option exists to buy one. |
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Ceridith
 Advanced Member
Joined: 11/24/09
The more you hype an upcoming game in your mind, the more it will fail to meet your expectations. |
7/20/10 1:06:17 PM#160
Originally posted by CulannHS Any respectable IT professional with any shred of IT security knowledge knows that it is equally the responsibility of the user, and those who configure and maintain the system. Poor system security design, whether it be unintuative, require unnecessary 'extra steps' for the user to ensure security, or just plain flawed with security gaps, it is still in part the responsibility of the administrators, even if the users are not doing all they can. Blizzard is guilty of this. Particularly in part due to their forced shift of requiring users to use their emails as usernames, rather than a unique and privately known username. You could argue that it's the user's fault for not making a 'separate email exclusively for their Battle.net account', but that's just a cop out. In this case it's unreasonable to expect users to have to shift their regular behavior, and go out of their way to stay secured. Why? Because things were fine the way they were before. The change was made at Blizzard's whim, for whatever reason, and the direct decision has created an additional gap in security, which users are expected to address. This is poor IT security management, plain and simple |
