I remember hearing about this game like 2-3 maybe 4 years ago, and it still hasn't come out? Not even some kind of beta/testing phases?

Checked the site and googled around...no discussion forums, no gameplay trailers/teasers or anything beyond a few screenshots (that show absolutely nothing beyond environment) , just the "we're working on it we'll tell you more later."

And where exactly are the dev's getting their money to continue production on this game? Have they not gone over budget by this point? Looking at the site I can't even figure out who these people are behind the game, which is ridiculously unprofessional.

Sounds like vaporware to me, especially considering the number of mmo's that have been fully developed and released since this was even announced.

You seem confused and confrontational, but I'll try to be patient. 

We are an independant software developer, not a publisher.  We have been completely up front from day one about the game.  From the beginning we told people that we were in the very early stages of game development, and we've done everything we can to keep people informed as to the development progress.  The amount of time it takes to make an MMO lilke Citadel of Sorcery is not an exact science, nor is it something we will allow to be hurried becasue someone thinks we're taking too long.

When we release the game is our business.  How long we take to make the game is also our business.  Where we get the financing to make the game is again, our business. 

You seem concerned that you cannot figure out who is maknig the game... yet we've already told you, MMO Magic, Inc. is making the game and as previously stated we are an independant software developer.  Why do you beleive it is unprofessional to be an independant software developer?

As for your 'vaporware' comment, your opinion is your own and will not affect the progress or release date of this game in the slightest.  It's always interesting when someone complains about something that has cost them nothing.

Originally posted by Jatar

You seem confused and confrontational, but I'll try to be patient. 

We are an independant software developer, not a publisher.  We have been completely up front from day one about the game.  From the beginning we told people that we were in the very early stages of game development, and we've done everything we can to keep people informed as to the development progress.  The amount of time it takes to make an MMO lilke Citadel of Sorcery is not an exact science, nor is it something we will allow to be hurried becasue someone thinks we're taking too long.

Very early stages..for what 2-3 years now? You can't honestly expect people to believe that theirs work even being done at this point. You've shown nothing but screenshots of character models and environments, neither of which can show any sort of game features. How are people suppose to believe you've done anything when you've shown absolutely nothing?

When we release the game is our business.  How long we take to make the game is also our business.  Where we get the financing to make the game is again, our business. 

Indeed, and I figured i'd get this sort of response. Are people even being paid to make this game? Is there even any sort of staff? Or is this some group of recent college graduates trying to make a game?

You seem concerned that you cannot figure out who is maknig the game... yet we've already told you, MMO Magic, Inc. is making the game and as previously stated we are an independant software developer.  Why do you beleive it is unprofessional to be an independant software developer?

Googling MMO Magic brings me right back to the CoS website, which tells me nothing about them. Even if they are considered independant developers, its practically standard to have a seperate buisness site for your own company, at least if you want to be taken seriously, and I don't know a single company, independant or otherwise, that doesn't have some backround information on who's in charge/developing their games, and a method of contacting those people.

As for your 'vaporware' comment, your opinion is your own and will not affect the progress or release date of this game in the slightest.  It's always interesting when someone complains about something that has cost them nothing.

And again, you've shown nothing to honestly prove their is an actual working game thats made progress for the past years. Screenshots just don't cut it.

 And another question arises..I assume your some sort of mod for the game? Why is feature information being posted outside of your own website, and on public discussion board?

After 2-3 years of supposed development, how does the game not have it's own discussion board site?

And you wonder why I think this company is unprofessional?

Originally posted by Bookkeeper

Wow, just another juvenile attack by someone who knows nothing about game developers or making an MMORPG.   The dev gave a reasonable response, and of course the guy just acts like a kid yet again and attacks them, typical.  This guy isn’t worth a response, what a waste of time reading his ‘logic’.

 

What in the world makes this guy think he has some ‘right’ to know anything?  What has he done to earn that right?  Have he paid them?  Nope, just another useless guy who thinks the world owes him a living spouting off about things he doesn't understand like he's some authority on game development.

  Agreed, The OP seems of the type "I want it, and I want it now" The Dev was kind enough to post yet the OP shows a certain immaturity in his continued attack on a game/company he's not spent a dime.

It's cool, we have thick enough skin.  There are always people who feel they need to attack things on fourms.  I guess they just don't have anything better to do with their time.  We certainly do, so I'm done with this thread.

Originally posted by Jatar

You seem confused and confrontational, but I'll try to be patient. 

We are an independant software developer, not a publisher.  We have been completely up front from day one about the game.  From the beginning we told people that we were in the very early stages of game development, and we've done everything we can to keep people informed as to the development progress.  The amount of time it takes to make an MMO lilke Citadel of Sorcery is not an exact science, nor is it something we will allow to be hurried becasue someone thinks we're taking too long.

When we release the game is our business.  How long we take to make the game is also our business.  Where we get the financing to make the game is again, our business. 

You seem concerned that you cannot figure out who is maknig the game... yet we've already told you, MMO Magic, Inc. is making the game and as previously stated we are an independant software developer.  Why do you beleive it is unprofessional to be an independant software developer?

As for your 'vaporware' comment, your opinion is your own and will not affect the progress or release date of this game in the slightest.  It's always interesting when someone complains about something that has cost them nothing.

You're completely right, of course, even if your tone doesn't exactly scream professional to me either. However, I have a simple observation that might have helped you at one point had you taken time to think sensibly. Don't advertise or talk about something until you have something to talk about and show, especially 2 or 3 years before you have anything substantial to show and talk about. Of course, other companies decided not to follow this simple wisdom, like Aventurine with Darkfall, and we all know how THAT helped their community and PR pre-release. You'll save yourself these types of threads on your next game, assuming you'll even have a first game, if you follow this simple advice in the future.

How is someone going to find investors or a publisher if they wait till the last minute to advertise the project?

This is why indies advertise early, but for the triple-A's, it's to hypemonger. Either way, it's always the smart move, save for people like the OP and their entitlement issues.

Originally posted by GTwander

How is someone going to find investors or a publisher if they wait till the last minute to advertise the project?

This is why indies advertise early, but for the triple-A's, it's to hypemonger. Either way, it's always the smart move, save for people like the OP and their entitlement issues.

Finding an investor doesn't require advertising  a game before there ever IS a game. Big companies, like say Bioware, getting people pumped for their games years before they make/release them is fine because they are likely not going to ever have a problem releasing them and they already have millions of people who KNOW this.

An indy doesn't have that luxury.

As far as investors, there's everything from dev.net to private venture capitalists, very few of which are looking at major gaming sites like this one for indy startups. Fans and potential customers come to sites like this to find out about games, not to fund their development through investment.

Anyway, I wish the devs well and hope they do release a good game. As always, everything I say is just my opinion.

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by GTwander

How is someone going to find investors or a publisher if they wait till the last minute to advertise the project?

This is why indies advertise early, but for the triple-A's, it's to hypemonger. Either way, it's always the smart move, save for people like the OP and their entitlement issues.

Finding an investor doesn't require advertising  a game before there ever IS a game. Big companies, like say Bioware, getting people pumped for their games years before they make/release them is fine because they are likely not going to ever have a problem releasing them and they already have millions of people who KNOW this.

An indy doesn't have that luxury.

As far as investors, there's everything from dev.net to private venture capitalists, very few of which are looking at major gaming sites like this one for indy startups. Fans and potential customers come to sites like this to find out about games, not to fund their development through investment.

Anyway, I wish the devs well and hope they do release a good game. As always, everything I say is just my opinion.

Investors follow hype, and hype follows early adverts.

Nuff said.

Originally posted by Jatar

It's cool, we have thick enough skin.  There are always people who feel they need to attack things on fourms.  I guess they just don't have anything better to do with their time.  We certainly do, so I'm done with this thread.

 So basically you've got nothing, as i've said?

 And again, why is this company practically using mmorpg.com as it's personal twitter or something? Any game that is honestly in development has it's own discussion board for this type of thing, something which literally takes 2-3 hours at max to set up and provides an honest, professional way of talking to players about the game.

By the way i've been trying to find a way to contact MMO Magic, but once again I cant seem to find any link at all to an email seperate from CoS or perhaps a phone number.

Perhaps your willing to provide me both or either (preferably a phone number), being the represenative for them?

Originally posted by Wolfenpride

Originally posted by Jatar

It's cool, we have thick enough skin.  There are always people who feel they need to attack things on fourms.  I guess they just don't have anything better to do with their time.  We certainly do, so I'm done with this thread.

 So basically you've got nothing, as i've said?

 And again, why is this company practically using mmorpg.com as it's personal twitter or something? Any game that is honestly in development has it's own discussion board for this type of thing, something which literally takes 2-3 hours at max to set up and provides an honest, professional way of talking to players about the game.

By the way i've been trying to find a way to contact MMO Magic, but once again I cant seem to find any link at all to an email seperate from CoS or perhaps a phone number.

 

Perhaps your willing to provide me both or either (preferably a phone number), being the represenative for them?

Originally posted by Wolfenpride

Originally posted by Jatar

It's cool, we have thick enough skin.  There are always people who feel they need to attack things on fourms.  I guess they just don't have anything better to do with their time.  We certainly do, so I'm done with this thread.

 So basically you've got nothing, as i've said?

 And again, why is this company practically using mmorpg.com as it's personal twitter or something? Any game that is honestly in development has it's own discussion board for this type of thing, something which literally takes 2-3 hours at max to set up and provides an honest, professional way of talking to players about the game.

By the way i've been trying to find a way to contact MMO Magic, but once again I cant seem to find any link at all to an email seperate from CoS or perhaps a phone number.

 

Perhaps your willing to provide me both or either (preferably a phone number), being the represenative for them?

Wolfen, MMO Magic use this forumn to help people discuss ideas and respond with respect to COS seems you do not appear to have grasped the concept. Coming in here and being nothing short of an aggresive nobody is so poor and amusing at the same time.

To get something back here you need to contribute and to be honest you have not done that or shown any real interest in the game. All you seem to have done is demand information from a game which is in a deelopment cycle. Which does not warrant them setting up public forumns until they see fit. The approach has been stated but you seem to be demanding information that you will never be privy to or even deserve.

Jatar is pretty damn good and to be honest has dealt with you in the manner beffitting , he just wiped you off of his shoe and you persist in trying again. You have had your response now go be nasty and aggressive somewhere else.

• Or you could continue to skulk here making a fool of yourself.
• Lets see a Dev of the game or an aggressive attack by a nobody....

Originally posted by Isane

Originally posted by Wolfenpride

Originally posted by Jatar

It's cool, we have thick enough skin.  There are always people who feel they need to attack things on fourms.  I guess they just don't have anything better to do with their time.  We certainly do, so I'm done with this thread.

 So basically you've got nothing, as i've said?

 And again, why is this company practically using mmorpg.com as it's personal twitter or something? Any game that is honestly in development has it's own discussion board for this type of thing, something which literally takes 2-3 hours at max to set up and provides an honest, professional way of talking to players about the game.

By the way i've been trying to find a way to contact MMO Magic, but once again I cant seem to find any link at all to an email seperate from CoS or perhaps a phone number.

 

Perhaps your willing to provide me both or either (preferably a phone number), being the represenative for them?

Wolfen, MMO Magic use this forumn to help people discuss ideas and respond with respect to COS seems you do not appear to have grasped the concept. Coming in here and being nothing short of an aggresive nobody is so poor and amusing at the same time.

To get something back here you need to contribute and to be honest you have not done that or shown any real interest in the game. All you seem to have done is demand information from a game which is in a deelopment cycle. Which does not warrant them setting up public forumns until they see fit. The approach has been stated but you seem to be demanding information that you will never be privy to or even deserve.

Jatar is pretty damn good and to be honest has dealt with you in the manner beffitting , he just wiped you off of his shoe and you persist in trying again. You have had your response now go be nasty and aggressive somewhere else.

• Or you could continue to skulk here making a fool of yourself.
• Lets see a Dev of the game or an aggressive attack by a nobody....

As you notice nothing about the game here , it must be all about you how grand.

 And who are you again?

All im asking for is basic information/contact info every developer makes available right from the get go.

You can't even confirm that MMO Magic even exists as an actual company, absolutely zero references from anywhere and theres literally almost nothing about them on their own site. Even Indie Companies have this sort of information available, Ace Team, 2D Boy, Flying Lab Softwares being recent examples. Contact Info, Headquarters location, Goals, even a mention of who the Founders are, this is all basic information that at least confirms a company exists to begin with and is serious about their work, and MMO Magic has none of that available.

Not only that, but they have absolutely nothing to show that a real working game exists and that they've done any work with it. I've read through those several of their little diary updates about all these great features they've supposedly got working so far, and again absolutely nothing to confirm it with short of pretty words.

These developers have gone 2-3 years like this, they are unbelievably pathetic, especially when their only represenative  seems to spend his time lurking mmorpg.com and answering disgruntled criticism with a snobby attitude. Doesn't sound like something anyone would pay you to do.

Completely unprofessional.

And before you say it, yes I can get away with a rude attitude, because I'm not representing a company and their game.

The OP is the one being rude, by his own admission, but where he is wrong is that it is not acceptable, no matter who you are.  It's clear you have a bee in your bonet for no apparent reason, and are attacking this developer to no point.  They have not taken your money, nor asked you to do anything.  You are simply here to be rude.  Go away.

MMO Magic doesn't need to publish anything, if they don't want to. They use these forums to gather inspiration from possible players and release info, when they see fit.

And 3 years? Oh c'mon... CCP announced EvE Online being developed 6 years before they went live. Blizzard announced WoW aswell some 5 years before it was released and StarCraft 2 was announced a whole 9 years before it get's relesed now.

It's your kind, that pushes developers and the reason for so many half-finished MMOs being released lately. You need to be way more patient tbh.

Originally posted by Bookkeeper

The OP is the one being rude, by his own admission, but where he is wrong is that it is not acceptable, no matter who you are.  It's clear you have a bee in your bonet for no apparent reason, and are attacking this developer to no point.  They have not taken your money, nor asked you to do anything.  You are simply here to be rude.  Go away.

Originally posted by jrs77

MMO Magic doesn't need to publish anything, if they don't want to. They use these forums to gather inspiration from possible players and release info, when they see fit.

And 3 years? Oh c'mon... CCP announced EvE Online being developed 6 years before they went live. Blizzard announced WoW aswell some 5 years before it was released and StarCraft 2 was announced a whole 9 years before it get's relesed now.

It's your kind, that pushes developers and the reason for so many half-finished MMOs being released lately. You need to be way more patient tbh.

 The difference with your examples is they were able to actually show they had a game even during development, and the dev's behind it attended several professional interviews on the state of development.

The only thing you can actually see about CoS are some old screenshots they've had since the game was announced, and even that is barely passing. Heck I can open the NWN2 module utility and wip up an environment with a building and screenshot it to. All these features they've supposedly completed at this point have yet to be shown, not even through screenshots.

They can take as long as they want to complete the game, the problem is they've shown nothing of what they've done in all this time, if anything been done at all.

They're not accountable to you, me, or anyone else.  We have not given them a dime so why would they owe us something?  It's not like they're taking preorders, why should they prove to you what they've been working on?  They'll do so when they are ready.

Originally posted by Jatar

You seem confused and confrontational, but I'll try to be patient. 

We are an independant software developer, not a publisher.  We have been completely up front from day one about the game.  From the beginning we told people that we were in the very early stages of game development, and we've done everything we can to keep people informed as to the development progress.  The amount of time it takes to make an MMO lilke Citadel of Sorcery is not an exact science, nor is it something we will allow to be hurried becasue someone thinks we're taking too long.

When we release the game is our business.  How long we take to make the game is also our business.  Where we get the financing to make the game is again, our business. 

You seem concerned that you cannot figure out who is maknig the game... yet we've already told you, MMO Magic, Inc. is making the game and as previously stated we are an independant software developer.  Why do you beleive it is unprofessional to be an independant software developer?

As for your 'vaporware' comment, your opinion is your own and will not affect the progress or release date of this game in the slightest.  It's always interesting when someone complains about something that has cost them nothing.

You seem far more confused and confrontational that the OP here.

You give a list of what is your "business", and I notice that nowhere in that list is pleasing the customer.  Yet you take the time to criticize someone who was obviously anxious to see what you were working on.  Do you really think that being a complete dick to potential players is a good plan?

If this guy is in any way representative of the team behind this game, I doubt it will ever see the light of day, and if by some miracle it does, I doubt anyone will play it.