Originally posted by uquipu

We are at the very infancy of the MMO genre.

Agreed. We're seeing it branch out in many directions. When you put MMOs like DDO, Battle Swarm, Combat Arms, Puzzle Pirates, EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Maple Story, Dragonica, Wizards 101 and LOCO side by side you can easily see how the platform encompasses a wide range of approaches in design and content.

Originally posted by ste2000

With more and more people getting faster internet connection, the online gamers numbers will grow drammatically and the game companies will try to cash on this as much as possible.

Game companies will try to cash in, but western mmorpg company won't necessary benefit from it.

In 2008, ZT online, a game you probably never heard of reach PCU(peak concurrent user) of 1 million players "every day".  The reason I'm mention this is because no one is playing Fallen Earth, Warhammer, LOTRO in asia.  The only western made MMO that manage to grab asian population is Wow.

The thing is I dont' see the western mmorpg community growing.  It's already saturated.  There just isn't enough money for MMORPG to evolve without killing older one(for example wow or eve). 

When I look at Rifts, I don't think it is dying at all.

 

The thing is I dont' see the western mmorpg community growing.  It's already saturated.  There just isn't enough money for MMORPG to evolve without killing older one(for example wow or eve). 

 EVE is ... one of the tiny mmo's out there. Why would killing EVE de-saturate the market? 370k accounts, many double accounts...is EVE a threat?

He probably means because it's the biggest sci-fi MMO and the biggest sandbox MMO. Any progress in either of those two areas would kind of have to siphon EVE's audience pretty heavily.

Even if most of the people who would play the new game are not current EVE players, we're still talking about trying to capitalize on one of two segments of the market that EVE has cornered better than anything else so far.

Similarly, on the fantasy/themepark front: most of WoW's player base has never touched EverQuest, yet EverQuest is what WoW dethroned in the West.

Originally posted by Markusan

I think the MMO market suffers from the same problems as the pharmaceutical industry does. Only big pharma can produce drugs while they after a while get copied by generic companies. In the gaming ibndustry maybe only 2-4 companies in the world can launch an MMO that has the quality to survive and actually bring in money. The problem though in the long end is that the bigger companies are too large to allow for individual creativity. In the example of pharma, the small companies offer the highest creativity and offer novel solutions that the big pharma cannot do since they are strangled by bureacracy. Too big gaming companies will eventually be too big to effectively come up with creative solutions. The small companies might be very creative but lack funding to develop games fully.

ideally the big companies would allow small independent teams to come up with and develop games freely without external input, without strainous time limits and without putting other demands on the development team.

I would not be suprised if Blizzard in a few years time would start to decline regarding producing good games. Quality will likely be there but innovation will likely be killed off. The company is likely growing too large for its own good. Just look at Sony. It is too big a company to effectively run MMO development. The company is run by ppl who likely dont know squat about game development and in the end will make decisions that will benefit stock holders, even if it means firing the company's best developers.

Amazing way to put it, I agree wholeheartedly.

The only companies I can think of that don't fit that rule are the self published ones (like SquareEnix) since they don't have as much beaurocracy to deal with (although shareholders are still a problem here I imagine) and the very rare cases of a dev team being given creative freedom (a.k.a ANet). I think we're actually starting to break out of the stagnant period we've seen for the past few years. If FFXIV and GW2 are successful then we'll see some balance return to the industry, still not sure what to make of TOR though, it isn't really doing much new, rather it's just trying to copy the typical MMO model extremely well and I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing in the long term.

Originally posted by Robokapp

well Torak, while you are right, the mentality is justified.

 

we don't know what "new and interesting" thing will attract us. because it's new. Therefore we have not experienced it yet.

 

so we go for "just like that thing I really enjoyed but better" attitude because it's a safer bet.

 

I didn't try to replace reality back in 2000s when i was playing my 21hour/day shooters for a week or so striaght before collapsing. I wasn't even thinking about reality...I was just that captured by the game.

 

I only want a fraction of the past experience to still exist. Here we are talking MMOs. back then it was shooters. Totally different things. But mmo's do promise a persistent, endless world and all that. If "it" is not here then it does not exist. And i know it exists, I had it. :)

 

I guess it's more of a theoretical issue rather than a "when will mmo's die" issue but to connect it with the topic: why do people play mmo's? they're more expensive than buy-and-play games with multiplayer options. Let's think WoW vs Wc3. same lore. Same company. But one is free other is about 50 cents/day. After purchase.

 

why WoW rather than Wc3? I don't know why everyone is doing it, but for me its because it's just easier to "get lost in it and forget the time for a few hours" in the case of an MMO like WoW. lately...not as much as at first, for reasons that are another topic altogether.

but the mmo does have partially the promise of keping you 'hooked' for a few hours at a time. And that is what probably should be the main focus of future MMOs.

Hell, it's like movies. You add random unnecessary violence and sex scenes. but they better also have some storyline or the blood and gore will not keep the viewer interested. let's look at SAW movies. They do have a story and at the end of each movie you get some answers to questions you were asking yourself from last movie. but you are also left with even more than before. So you watch the next movie. and story widens even further. And the people cutting themselves up into pieces? entertaining...but by now I'm here for the story as much as for the blood.

this is what i've been basically saying about the graphics.

Hmmm... I think we got of topic, I'm not sure where you are going with this.

Try Fallen Earth, personally I think it's one of the better imersive worlds out right now if you can adapt to the clumsy combat interface ( a hybrid FPS - MMO system) There is a free trial.

WEll I think the mmo tag is being used to much.  A lot of RTS games are calling themselves mmo, a lot of simulators, and a lot of games that are really what i call co-op games like left 4 dead and things like that are being classified as mmo's.

The problem is a lot of the current mmo's are turning into solo based games.  Take for instnace LOTRO with it skimish system. Cant get a group go in this instance with you pet budy and kill stuff, just as easy to level up.

I think mmo's as we have known them are dying off, and being replaced by more solo centric games that dont desirve to be called mmo's.

There is such a glut of current mmo's on the market that are just trash in a few years theres only going to be like maybe 5 good ones left to choose from.

Just my 2 cents worth and that aint worth much.

Originally posted by Miffy

The genre has been dead since 2005 and SWTOR is it's last chance, after that I give up

Sadly, I agree with this. MMO's have all been so bland since Warcraft came on the scene, everyone is trying to copy their style and, you know what, the style was awful to begin with. It appeals to single player gamers and die hards, that's about it. I couldn't get far past level 30 before deciding I'd had enough of being directed everywhere and never having to join up with anyone.

So yeah.. I'll take a look at a few upcoming titles, after that I give up too.

Originally posted by Amathe

I remember the 1970s.  For some reason, everyone started thinking that truck drivers were really cool. CB radios were all the rage. People started using phrases like "10-4 good buddy." /shudder

 

Then everyone woke up from that nightmare and we try not to talk about it.

 

That's how I see the world of videogames.  We nerds had a good thing going.  We were over here playing our fantasy/math/mapping games, having a good time, and then 11.5 million people started thinking that was cool and crashed our party.

 

I'm hoping they wake up, realize that, like CB radios, this is really a nerdy thing to do, and go away lol.  Then I can go back to playing the old school type games with old school gamers.

 

Yep, breaker-breaker, bring it back, catch ya on the flip flop WoW gamers. This is 505 and I'm clear.

 Memories!

Oh, we got a little convoy, truckin' through the night

Yeah, we got a little convoy, ain't she a beautifull sight

Hehehe, my parents even got me a cheapo CB base station for one of my birthdays in the 70's.  I don't think I ever talked to anyone on it but after a while one of the dials broke off and it sort of looked like a flying saucer so I carried that broke off dial around with me as my toy spaceship.

But to the point; I don't think you're right about this being a fad which all those new people will forget about.  Some will give it up of course but that won't change anything.  The hope is that enough of them will start to want deeper games one of these days so that maybe things will begin to improve.

Anyway, keep your fuzz-buster on and don't ride the ass of a lowboy haulin' gravel.  Damn, Pig Pen, where'd you say you are?  I can still smell them hogs.

Originally posted by Neanderthal

Originally posted by Amathe

I remember the 1970s.  For some reason, everyone started thinking that truck drivers were really cool. CB radios were all the rage. People started using phrases like "10-4 good buddy." /shudder

 

Then everyone woke up from that nightmare and we try not to talk about it.

 

That's how I see the world of videogames.  We nerds had a good thing going.  We were over here playing our fantasy/math/mapping games, having a good time, and then 11.5 million people started thinking that was cool and crashed our party.

 

I'm hoping they wake up, realize that, like CB radios, this is really a nerdy thing to do, and go away lol.  Then I can go back to playing the old school type games with old school gamers.

 

Yep, breaker-breaker, bring it back, catch ya on the flip flop WoW gamers. This is 505 and I'm clear.

 Memories!

Oh, we got a little convoy, truckin' through the night

Yeah, we got a little convoy, ain't she a beautifull sight

Hehehe, my parents even got me a cheapo CB base station for one of my birthdays in the 70's.  I don't think I ever talked to anyone on it but after a while one of the dials broke off and it sort of looked like a flying saucer so I carried that broke off dial around with me as my toy spaceship.

But to the point; I don't think you're right about this being a fad which all those new people will forget about.  Some will give it up of course but that won't change anything.  The hope is that enough of them will start to want deeper games one of these days so that maybe things will begin to improve.

Anyway, keep your fuzz-buster on and don't ride the ass of a lowboy haulin' gravel.  Damn, Pig Pen, where'd you say you are?  I can still smell them hogs.

lol,

Yeah CB's the internet chat room of the 70's, I remember those days...

Smokie and the Bandit, Every which way but loose even Han Solo was inspired by the 70's trucker archtype.

Originally posted by UsualSuspect

Originally posted by Miffy

The genre has been dead since 2005 and SWTOR is it's last chance, after that I give up

Sadly, I agree with this. MMO's have all been so bland since Warcraft came on the scene, everyone is trying to copy their style and, you know what, the style was awful to begin with. It appeals to single player gamers and die hards, that's about it. I couldn't get far past level 30 before deciding I'd had enough of being directed everywhere and never having to join up with anyone.

So yeah.. I'll take a look at a few upcoming titles, after that I give up too.

 Damn, that sounds exactly like my WoW experience.  You know, some people like to say that WoW kept the good things about EQ and threw out the bad stuff but I see it just the opposite.  For me they threw out the good part of EQ which hooked me and kept me playing for years and replaced it with the solo quest grind and kept the worst part of EQ which was the raiding gear grind at endgame.

Um...

Every year, there is an increase in global subscribers/customers of MMO entertainment.

Every year, there are released more games than there was a year before.

Every year, the MMO projects grow and are more expensive.

...what was your question?

As long as  world economys hold up....then there will be a .......pause.

LoL @ CB radios.I remember when my dad chased a group of men harassing my cousin only to find out one of them was an off duty cop...They had ways of tracking people by signal strenth lmao.Hell you had to watch what you said on them CB radios or people would get mad at you,find out where you lived,and pin your cable screwing up its radio's.

As for mmos dying.I post this knowing i will no doubt be flamed but there are a couple areas where mmo's havent even tried to explore their patential.One is Consoles....

Consoles have a few mmo's in the works and im curious to see how they turn out.My first mmo was EQOA for ps2 and it still to this day in my book is one of the most fun and enjoyable mmos ive played.It had stuff that other games should have that they don't.Hopefully and i dont think it has been confirmed yet EQ-Next will make a console return.....

Next and this is where i will probably get flamed the most but any one with sense should agree is Facebook/Social web pages.With games like Farmville raking in millions of monthly active users and tons of money from their cash shops im surprised a big budget mmo company hasnt tried to make an mmo on one of the social networks.I played one mmo on Facebook for a few minutes called City of Eternals (vampire mmo) and it played just like some of the mmos ive played without the up to date/3d graphics. Imagine WoW in like nes format......

I think that as long as social gaming and console gaming continue to prove there are paying costumers who are willing to pay lots of money for in-game items,map packs,expansion's and everything else they charge money for the MMO scene still has plenty of untapped resources to explore if you will.When one of them actually capitalizes on this and actually makes a game to target these two groups is anyones guess.

... About two weeks.

This thread was way to long so I just skimmed. The one thing you all seem to be missing is the main flaw with the MMO model itself: There can be only one. That is, there can only be one game with the largest number of subscribers or players. A crowd draws a crowd and after awhile, the majority of the people that will EVER play an MMO in their life are all collected in one game. This forces the compitition to try and divert the table scraps of that crowd to their own products. This leads to a tight rope where your new game can't be to different, but can't be to similar either.

Item mall games don't really have this problem since the number of players doesn't always mean higher profits. Then again item mall games have their own set of problems on both the business and consumer side....

It won't die, it'll evolve into virtual reality.

You don't have to be the biggest MMO to be successful. Just like you don't need to be first in the ratings to have good programming nor do you need to have the most fans to be a successful actor or singer. The MMO genre isn't going anywhere... it never has and never will. Plus there are three MMOs coming out that have a lot of people interested... more so than the MMOs that came out the last couple of years. TOR, GW2, and FFXIV plus DC Universe.

Saying it'll die is a little overly dramatic...

2 weeks, I heard it on the radio

MMO gaming will never die as long as there are people who want to socialize while having fun. There will always be plenty of people who want to socialize while having fun. Ergo, MMO gaming will never die.