I didn't say "graphically better THAN UO"

I said graphically better than what it is right now. Of course UO was a 1997 game and was in 2d, yet it was good for its time.

MO should imo look like what we see on the beta trailers.

World design is really empty im sorry to say it, its 95% of just plain terrain, naked moutains and a few trees that really don't look realistic at all.

This is MO as right now...srry but its just quite empty you can see they didn't spend much time on world and level design

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3Mn01WCqr0&feature=related

This is DFO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYozidD2fLc

Look at the variety, the different foliage, the trees, the textures, the shadows, the environements, you can feel that the devs spent a lot of time modeling every tree, every texture, every building etc...

I hope you understand my point.

Originally posted by raff01

I didn't say "graphically better THAN UO"

I said graphically better than what it is right now. Of course UO was a 1997 game and was in 2d, yet it was good for its time.

MO should imo look like what we see on the beta trailers.

World design is really empty im sorry to say it, its 95% of just plain terrain, naked moutains and a few trees that really don't look realistic at all.

This is MO as right now...srry but its just quite empty you can see they didn't spend much time on world and level design

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3Mn01WCqr0&feature=related

 

This is DFO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYozidD2fLc

Look at the variety, the different foliage, the trees, the textures, the shadows, the environements, you can feel that the devs spent a lot of time modeling every tree, every texture, every building etc...

 

I hope you understand my point.

Wasnt DF the game which was totally about 14 years in development? And you compare it with MO which was how many years in development? :)

I mean DF should be fucking better for being in development over all 14 years.

I like MO´s terrain, yes there´s a plain field and a lake for the center of the map but we have a nice desert with places to explore, a jungle to get lost in, islands to explore around the coast lines. I hear there´s a frozen lake to the north. You grossly under simplify MO´s terrain just to a plain field with mountains which doesn´t do it justice.

High res graphics, replacing the place holder trees when they get chance will make the world more vibrant but by no means is the landscape empty or dull.

When UO was first released Computer Gaming World awarded it the title of "Coaster of the Year" as they felt that was the best use of the CD that it came on.

If they were still around today I'm sure MO would have won the same award.

Specifically the developers are shooting for an updated T2A (i.e. before Trammel).  Mostly that applies to quests,and some things along those lines

Originally posted by raff01

MO would be on UO's level if :

Graphics were better  At worst the graphics are uneven. In some areas the graphics are awesome, in others a little bland.  Of course, in real life the visuals are often kind of bland.  Most of the negative areas are from speedtree &speedgrass not being in because of need to optimize them before putting them in

Artistic design was better Duplicate

World was larger   Myrland is estimated 384km^2(148 miles^). Roughly the same size as World of Warcraft's world (azeroth and outlands combined), not including Northrend.   http://mortal-info.wikia.com/wiki/Nave   Some others for comparison  http://i.imgur.com/uBWCz.jpg    Description of methodology for Azeroth  http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2007/01/how-big-is-azeroth.html  Couldn't find a link for the size of Felucca/ Sosaria, but if you go by Tobold's methodology, it would need to be more than an hour's travel time from end to end to be larger. It wasn't.

World wasn't just a flat unique continent with mountains and a big lake with nothing inside it apart from a few cities.    http://uo.stratics.com/content/atlas/maps/Grammam.jpg  looks like one continent with mountains and a big harbor

There were more skills for each "career" more stuff to do in general.  Not sure I understand your point. UO- 700 points to distribute among 58 skills (19 of which didn't exist in T2A and a few others are useless (herding))  MO 1000 points to distribute among 105 primary skills. Granted some are not currently turned on, such as thievery and alchemy,  but even without them there are clearly more skills in MO currently.

Had quests Escort the noble/merchant to city X is the only quest I remember

More variety of mobs OK point taken

Less bugs OK point taken

The simple fact that this discussion is about what features from a 13/14 year old game are missing or lacking in Mortal Online should tell you all you need to know.  A game claiming to be "Ultima Online 2010" should not only have all the features of the original game, but they should be taken to another level.  UO was revolutionary when it came out.  It's main drawing point was that you were IN an Ultima game.. with other players!

For comparison purposes.. you were likely playing UO on a P2 with something like a 266Mhz processor, maybe 64MB RAM.  If you were really on the bleeding edge you may have had a Voodoo 2 videocard with an extra 8 MB of RAM.  Oh yeah, you also were playing by dialup modem...

Mortal can never bring the cache of Ultima's history to the table.  As such.. it has to not only meet the features of a 13 year old game but has to revolutionize them.  The only area where they can claim this is in graphics.  "Basic Magic system", "Basic Player Housing", "Basic NPC mobs and wildlife"", etc... is not going to cut it when you want the title of Ultima Online 2010.

Now if you want to say it will become Ultima Online 2012 or something like that... well that would be your opinion based on "potential" and I might have a different opinion but it would just be a circular argument.

Just looking at that http://uo.stratics.com/content/atlas/maps/Grammam.jpg map makes me nostalgic.

When UO first came out, it was in a similar situation as MO, needed a lot of work, and patience from its players.

But a major difference is that when UO came out, it was pretty much the only graphical MMO available, and so people stuck with it and gave it time to develop. Everyone was new to that type of gaming, developers and players alike.

That is not the case for MO, people will not give it time to develop when there are so many other games available and many of them released to a higher standard. People now expect much more, as it has already been delivered in other games, and developers should not be surprised when they release a half baked game to find no one is really interested.

MO might one day be as good as UO was, but is anyone going to be interested in waiting that long, no because there are already games out there that are at that standard.

Originally posted by osmunda

Specifically the developers are shooting for an updated T2A (i.e. before Trammel).  Mostly that applies to quests,and some things along those lines

Originally posted by raff01

MO would be on UO's level if :

Graphics were better  At worst the graphics are uneven. In some areas the graphics are awesome, in others a little bland.  Of course, in real life the visuals are often kind of bland.  Most of the negative areas are from speedtree &speedgrass not being in because of need to optimize them before putting them in

Artistic design was better Duplicate

World was larger   Myrland is estimated 384km^2(148 miles^). Roughly the same size as World of Warcraft's world (azeroth and outlands combined), not including Northrend.   http://mortal-info.wikia.com/wiki/Nave   Some others for comparison  http://i.imgur.com/uBWCz.jpg    Description of methodology for Azeroth  http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2007/01/how-big-is-azeroth.html  Couldn't find a link for the size of Felucca/ Sosaria, but if you go by Tobold's methodology, it would need to be more than an hour's travel time from end to end to be larger. It wasn't.

World wasn't just a flat unique continent with mountains and a big lake with nothing inside it apart from a few cities.    http://uo.stratics.com/content/atlas/maps/Grammam.jpg  looks like one continent with mountains and a big harbor

There were more skills for each "career" more stuff to do in general.  Not sure I understand your point. UO- 700 points to distribute among 58 skills (19 of which didn't exist in T2A and a few others are useless (herding))  MO 1000 points to distribute among 105 primary skills. Granted some are not currently turned on, such as thievery and alchemy,  but even without them there are clearly more skills in MO currently.

Had quests Escort the noble/merchant to city X is the only quest I remember

More variety of mobs OK point taken

Less bugs OK point taken

I agree with you as far as graphics being uneven. Thing is graphics look great in the majority of cities, but look bad to atrocious outside cities. unfortunatly, cities are only a small portion of MO so I'd say there is around 10% of the world that looks good at most.

And its not just speedtree that's going to solve the issue : take a look at this video of the jungle, look at the ground texture, look how it looks like plastic with tons of glow and bright green tiled and repeated over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArGGxp8E6Es&feature=related

or

This is what I call "atrocious".

As for the size of the world, Myrland is 64 km² not 384.  384 km² would be WoW's size since pre-burning crusade it was estimated to be 200km².

384 might be what the devs hope for if they manage to have all 5 continents of Nave.

As for the skills, I'm not talking about skillpoints, but rather stuff to do, ways to do it. like there is gonna be over 10 material lores, all of them are a "skill" but they just all relate to the same thing.

I would like, say if you specialize in hand combat, to have advanced moves, such as tumble jumb, sweep kick, or just kick, ability to throw, take your opponent down, throwing knives/shuriken... If you specialise in spears, have an impale skill or a 360 swing, ability to combine certain moves together to add fluidity and rythm to combat.

Crafters altho they are not combatants should have their own way in certain combat situations. like if you are an ingeneer, you could use certain tools, such as powder to have explosives thrown at your foe, or if you are a thief, ability to make some poison out of basic alchemy skill, or backstab, if you are a ranger, have an ability to make traps, or climb in a tree to ambush, or even a hiding skill.

This kind of stuff.

raff he did say speegrass too, not just speedtree. Between both, foliage of all types will be added.

Originally posted by ltank

raff he did say speegrass too, not just speedtree. Between both, foliage of all types will be added.

I know but foliage isn't everything either. Even with the best foliage, you still need a good looking texture on the ground, not a unique texture tiled and repeated endlessly.

I'm glad this comparison was thrown up.  The only game I played for an extended period of time was UO.  (97-00)...  I continually find myself going back to play on oldschool servers because modern MMOs just aren't providing the fix I get from that game.

The two games I have been looking at that show potential are MO and DFO.  It seems that DFO is holding the upper hand at the moment...  I hope MO can pick up and start running.  I still haven't tried either game, yet. 

Originally posted by raff01

I agree with you as far as graphics being uneven. Thing is graphics look great in the majority of cities, but look bad to atrocious outside cities. unfortunatly, cities are only a small portion of MO so I'd say there is around 10% of the world that looks good at most.

And its not just speedtree that's going to solve the issue : take a look at this video of the jungle, look at the ground texture, look how it looks like plastic with tons of glow and bright green tiled and repeated over.

As someone already mentioned, speedgrass.  With that in, the only time you would notice that texture is when staring straight at the ground.

As for the size of the world, Myrland is 64 km² not 384.  384 km² would be WoW's size since pre-burning crusade it was estimated to be 200km².   384 might be what the devs hope for if they manage to have all 5 continents of Nave.

Here is the more direct comparison to azeroth and lachrymose's work to determine thathttp://www.mortalonline.com/forums/3653-study-mo-world-size-density.html and the original statements from mats 

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/3580-world-size-64-km2-2.html

 

As for the skills, I'm not talking about skillpoints, but rather stuff to do, ways to do it. like there is gonna be over 10 material lores, all of them are a "skill" but they just all relate to the same thing. The flip side of that is that there is a much greater diversity in crafters in MO. In UO 200 points meant you could craft every metal weapon and armor in the game.  All grandmaster crafted armor and weapons had identical stats (within a specific type) 

I would like, say if you specialize in hand combat, to have advanced moves, such as tumble jumb, sweep kick, or just kick, ability to throw, take your opponent down, throwing knives/shuriken... If you specialise in spears, have an impale skill or a 360 swing, ability to combine certain moves together to add fluidity and rythm to combat.  I don't recall any of that being in UO. As a simple example, here are the materials that can be used to make a robe: Wool, Silk, Cotton, Iron Wool, Ironsilk, Fullgrain Leather, Quality Leather, Brained Leather, Leptoid Scales, Placoid Scales, Guard Fur, Ground Fur. The choice affect the weight, durability and effectiveness or the end product.

Crafters altho they are not combatants should have their own way in certain combat situations. like if you are an ingeneer, you could use certain tools, such as powder to have explosives thrown at your foe, or if you are a thief, ability to make some poison out of basic alchemy skill, or backstab, if you are a ranger, have an ability to make traps, or climb in a tree to ambush, or even a hiding skill.

This kind of stuff.

 

Addendum: Had to finish the post real quick.   Regarding the size of Nave,you are correct in stating that it is 64 km².  I'm not really sure where that person got their numbers.  The question remains, how does that compare to UO?

Originally posted by aesbestos

I'm glad this comparison was thrown up.  The only game I played for an extended period of time was UO.  (97-00)...  I continually find myself going back to play on oldschool servers because modern MMOs just aren't providing the fix I get from that game.

The two games I have been looking at that show potential are MO and DFO.  It seems that DFO is holding the upper hand at the moment...  I hope MO can pick up and start running.  I still haven't tried either game, yet. 

Darkfall does have a free 1 week trial, if you want to give it a swing.

No... just no.    Although I like the concepts behind mortal better than darkfall, darkfall released in a much more finished and well executed state.  Think about that for a minute.  Darkfall released better. 

At this point, I'm really starting to think that MO was just a bunch of amateurs with a pipe dream.  They can't handle the management of their web site, they can't keep to any sort of time table.  Their patches state fixes that didn't go through.  About the only good thing they've accomplished is having a vision of what they want the game to be.  Atm, its in early beta stage though with no hope in sight.  I really doubt it will make it long term.

Ohh let me add as well that they did not accomplish the diversity and gameplay that you saw in UO.  UO had far fewer skills and yet I felt like I had much more character building possible.  Skills were simplified representations of abilities in uo, not complex grindfests like they are in MO.  In uo you could go buy some pickaxes, mine some ore, raise your mining skill.. then take that ore... smelt it... raise your smelting skill.  In MO that involves buying ton of books and grinding crap abilities up so that you can do what you want.  In UO, that same miner might be a gm swords/tactics/anat/healing/with some points in magery and resist... as well as mining and smelting.   In MO you will never be any type of threat to pks as a miner.  There are too many combat skills that they invest ALL their points into.  So, while mo has a cap of 1000 points (uo had 700), they have so many skills that you are forced into a class role instead of creating a character that you want to play.

Lets see how Earthrise pans out next.  I gave SV my money once to support an indy product and see if it was worth playing for myself.  Right now, its just not fun or creative in any way for me. 

Originally posted by Borluc

No... just no.    Although I like the concepts behind mortal better than darkfall, darkfall released in a much more finished and well executed state.  Think about that for a minute.  Darkfall released better. 

At this point, I'm really starting to think that MO was just a bunch of amateurs with a pipe dream.  They can't handle the management of their web site, they can't keep to any sort of time table.  Their patches state fixes that didn't go through.  About the only good thing they've accomplished is having a vision of what they want the game to be.  Atm, its in early beta stage though with no hope in sight.  I really doubt it will make it long term.

You must of been hit on the head my friend, characters being deleted, server crashes, bugged AI for months on high end mobs, memory leaks, people not being able to even purchase the game for weeks. Yes everyone moans about the book price change advantage, what sort of advantage would a two week head start give those lucky enough to purchase the game?

They keep to their timetable very well, granted patches are usually early hours of the morning instead of the evening. I don't know what fixes you're on about that didn't go through... please elaborate.

Darkfall was very bare when it first released, MO is in better condition incomparason.

Originally posted by Borluc.

...

Ohh let me add as well that they did not accomplish the diversity and gameplay that you saw in UO.  UO had far fewer skills and yet I felt like I had much more character building possible.  Skills were simplified representations of abilities in uo, not complex grindfests like they are in MO.  In uo you could go buy some pickaxes, mine some ore, raise your mining skill.. then take that ore... smelt it... raise your smelting skill.  In MO that involves buying ton of books and grinding crap abilities up so that you can do what you want.  In UO, that same miner might be a gm swords/tactics/anat/healing/with some points in magery and resist... as well as mining and smelting.   In MO you will never be any type of threat to pks as a miner.  There are too many combat skills that they invest ALL their points into.  So, while mo has a cap of 1000 points (uo had 700), they have so many skills that you are forced into a class role instead of creating a character that you want to play.

Lets see how Earthrise pans out next.  I gave SV my money once to support an indy product and see if it was worth playing for myself.  Right now, its just not fun or creative in any way for me. 

Huge diversity in MO because of the limited amount of things you can perfect with one character, being an all in one character is something MO took a step away from. It's personal taste to if you like it or not. Mining is 100 points however.

Originally posted by Borluc

Ohh let me add as well that they did not accomplish the diversity and gameplay that you saw in UO.  UO had far fewer skills and yet I felt like I had much more character building possible.  Skills were simplified representations of abilities in uo, not complex grindfests like they are in MO.  In uo you could go buy some pickaxes, mine some ore, raise your mining skill.. then take that ore... smelt it... raise your smelting skill.  In MO that involves buying ton of books and grinding crap abilities up so that you can do what you want.  In UO, that same miner might be a gm swords/tactics/anat/healing/with some points in magery and resist... as well as mining and smelting.   In MO you will never be any type of threat to pks as a miner.  There are too many combat skills that they invest ALL their points into.  So, while mo has a cap of 1000 points (uo had 700), they have so many skills that you are forced into a class role instead of creating a character that you want to play.

Lets see how Earthrise pans out next.  I gave SV my money once to support an indy product and see if it was worth playing for myself.  Right now, its just not fun or creative in any way for me. 

In point of fact, you can be a severe threat to a pk as a miner (petrology, mining, extraction equipment, and extracting) you just won't be able to be a weaponsmith also.

Originally posted by djpeavey2

Im bored of people saying that the game sux.

The game is awesome!!! I was waiting and waiting for a game like UO.

NOW WE HAVE IT! ENJOY!!

 

VIVE MORTAL ONLINE!

TRUE!.

The ppl haven't a fck idea of UO or MO, i think that 1997 they were with pacifiers or  not remember....

The game not sux.

Sux the childish comunity of mmorpg games

If this is a cheerleader post for a concept of a game, that would make sense, but all we have is concept and very little realization of it.    The state of this game is terrible meaning the little content that is in is mostly broken and the majority of content it espouses is missing from the game.   What we have is a concept yet to be realized.    That said, some are actually having a good time in the game currently; how I do not know.   After playing for 30-days I find the game particularly boring, combat sluggish and broken game play annoying.

I'd really appreciate, and assume others would, a FRAPS demonstrating all the fun one claims to be having in the game.  In other games we can see what fans or non-fans are talking about.   A video is so much better than mere words.   I could certainly put a fraps up on YouTube as I think I have a few days left on my account, but it would be boring.

Let's be totally honest here.   The only thing remotely similar to UO in MO is the aspiration to be similar.   There are far more features missing from MO than are in it, let alone working.

There is a reason why in the most recent poll 40% of the players said they would not renew this week beyond their free month.   It's great some love the game & concept, but be mindful not to mislead new gamers in to wasting their money on a hope that as of today is just that; a hope.

-CC