Originally posted by mklinic

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by utopium

Originally posted by Zoulz

Also, if you care so much about people, the world has bigger issues you can be concerned about. Internet privacy is a small issue compared to starvation, child prostitution, trafficing etc. etc.

Why are you still trying to derail the discussion with this argument? People will care about their privacy regardless of the fact that bigger problems exist. People will engage in discussions about trivial matters even though incredibly important matters exist. You don't go to a town hall meeting and lament them for discussing the pot holes in the main road instead of some tragedy on the other side of the globe - that would just be heckling.

I'm not derailing anything. Call it wherever you want. It is a vaild point. Your obviously here because you care about people and want them to be safe, right? But still, you don't give a crap about other people than those close to you. And you want me to be open-minded and see the big picture about internet stalkers etc. Well, why don't you take a look at the full picture first. If your going to be so zealous about a frickin' game showing your real name. There are people much, much, much worse off than you.

how does posting in one topic denote lack of concern for another?

I doesn't. I just think it's hypocrisy to go around acting like you care about people when there are bigger issues you could focus on rather than caring about some game.

Anyway, screw it. I'm not gonna bother anymore.

I never said people were evil.

Mean spirited maybe, but that doent mean evil.

I just think that if this RealID thing goes live then people will just have another way to cause others grief for some real or imagined slight.

Hopefully they wont go burn someones house down, but it is too easy for people to use information. Spam emails, hate mails, endangering your job with  hate mails to your employer, subscribing to porno magazines in your name, jeez the list goes on and on.

Thats what I mean by mean spirited. Not murder your children while they sleep type of thing. I dont think <most> people are that type. BUT even you have to admit there are a few =)

And for the record yes people can get that same info from a phone book. But someone in L.A. California isnt likely to look me up in a phone book where I live, Unless they have all my info like Real ID provides.

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by mklinic

how does posting in one topic denote lack of concern for another?

I doesn't. I just think it's hypocrisy to go around acting like you care about people when there are bigger issues you could focus on rather than caring about some game.

Anyway, screw it. I'm not gonna bother anymore.

Your response seems pretty contradictory and generally ignores the whole premise that this is a game forum for discussing games and issues related to them. It would make no sense to discuss the BP oil spill, genocide in Darfur, or other significant issues in a forum that is not suited for such discussion.

Originally posted by utopium

Originally posted by Zoulz

I'm not derailing anything. Call it wherever you want. It is a vaild point. Your obviously here because you care about people and want them to be safe, right? But still, you don't give a crap about other people than those close to you. And you want me to be open-minded and see the big picture about internet stalkers etc. Well, why don't you take a look at the full picture first. If your going to be so zealous about a frickin' game showing your real name. There are people much, much, much worse off than you.

 Keeping things in perspective... so important. The problem is that you can say this about ANY discussion except one. It's just a way of trying to shut people up. Pretending that I'm somehow failing to see the big picture just because I engage in this discussion is you being pretentious beyond belief. It's a feature of western civilisation that you are allowed to complain about the monotonous and grating sound of the vuvuzela, even though there are people elsewhere having worse problems. You can refuse to accept this all you want, but trying to bring it up is still just heckling.

Sure, whatever. You can justify it which ever way you want. It doesn't make any difference. And I don't care anymore.

Originally posted by mklinic

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by mklinic

how does posting in one topic denote lack of concern for another?

I doesn't. I just think it's hypocrisy to go around acting like you care about people when there are bigger issues you could focus on rather than caring about some game.

Anyway, screw it. I'm not gonna bother anymore.

Your response seems pretty contradictory and generally ignores the whole premise that this is a game forum for discussing games and issues related to them. It would make no sense to discuss the BP oil spill, genocide in Darfur, or other significant issues in a forum that is not suited for such discussion.

I'm not trying to discuss those issues here. I just said I find it hypocritical, that's all. I can't reference real things because i'm in a gaming forum?

Based on their desire to switch to this new Real ID system, I have decided to leave WoW for good and not buy any future Blizzard products (sad really, was looking forward to Starcraft and Diablo). Some of you are probably going, why? Its just your real name showing up on the forums and a few other things. Well for me, I want the choice to be anonymous or to have my real name attached to a post. Its not that I want to be malicious about what I am doing or troll around the forums, but its my choice whether I share my name or not with another person online. Some will argue about your information is "public" anyway. Well given my background, I attempt to make the smallest footprint on the Internet with my name. However, since people feel it necessary in the United States to make every aspect of my life (besides HIPAA information) public, I do my best to ensure whatever information is out there is a pain in the arse to obtain. That's not the say its not easy to get some details, but its absolutely idiotic to require me to share my personal information to play a video game. I have the right to privacy in my home, and that *should* extend to the Internet with a few exceptions (such as Banking, etc). And yes, you could argue that it'll help the hackers, but in reality, they are already using bogus information, such as fake names, proxies, etc.

From a security standpoint, the Real ID is a horrible idea given the poor security measures in place at Blizzard in addition to the constant phishing attacks by various hacking groups. While you can decrease your risk of attack by utilizing a Blizzard keyfob, its not 100% fool proof. The first part of identity theft is knowing your name. Once they have that, they start looking for email addresses, phone numbers, etc to begin phishing attacks. For me, I do not respond that crap, but there are enough people out there who do and not only will they risk their WoW account, but many other types of personal information from you, your family, friends, companies, or any other "public" resource. Phishing attacks are not limited to contacting you for your information, they can contact someone else that knows you that may not be as diligent with their security practices. So be careful what you share and how you share it. For example, Facebook allows employers to pay a fee to obtain all the posts and information about you from their site, which they can use to determine if they want to hire you or not. And if you are saying, "no they don't", think again because our company does just that.

For me, my choice is to boycott Blizzard. While I'm one person and it won't even be a perceptible blip on their radar I will feel more comfortable not agreeing to signing over my name and whatever else Blizzard feels like making "public" for their video games.

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by mklinic

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by mklinic

how does posting in one topic denote lack of concern for another?

I doesn't. I just think it's hypocrisy to go around acting like you care about people when there are bigger issues you could focus on rather than caring about some game.

Anyway, screw it. I'm not gonna bother anymore.

Your response seems pretty contradictory and generally ignores the whole premise that this is a game forum for discussing games and issues related to them. It would make no sense to discuss the BP oil spill, genocide in Darfur, or other significant issues in a forum that is not suited for such discussion.

I'm not trying to discuss those issues here. I just said I find it hypocritical, that's all. I can't reference real things because i'm in a gaming forum?

You can certainly reference them, but they would not be pertinent to the intent of the forums. Additionally, various rules regarding the discussion of religion and politics do limit some of the 'important' topics that can be discussed here.

So, I'm trying to understand your logic...People posting on-topic are hypocritical? Or is it that, those people who do believe this is a dangerous thing, should just give Blizzard a pass because there are worse things out there? 

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by utopium

Originally posted by Zoulz

I'm not derailing anything. Call it wherever you want. It is a vaild point. Your obviously here because you care about people and want them to be safe, right? But still, you don't give a crap about other people than those close to you. And you want me to be open-minded and see the big picture about internet stalkers etc. Well, why don't you take a look at the full picture first. If your going to be so zealous about a frickin' game showing your real name. There are people much, much, much worse off than you.

 Keeping things in perspective... so important. The problem is that you can say this about ANY discussion except one. It's just a way of trying to shut people up. Pretending that I'm somehow failing to see the big picture just because I engage in this discussion is you being pretentious beyond belief. It's a feature of western civilisation that you are allowed to complain about the monotonous and grating sound of the vuvuzela, even though there are people elsewhere having worse problems. You can refuse to accept this all you want, but trying to bring it up is still just heckling.

Sure, whatever. You can justify it which ever way you want. It doesn't make any difference. And I don't care anymore.

First this was very important to you, and now you "don't care anymore"? You do realize you're just insulting people, right?

Look at it this way: Let's say the politicians are planning to tear down the local park and put up a parking lot. Since this is the only park in the area, you think it might not be a good idea and discuss it with your local representative. He tells you that it is selfish of you to make a noise about this issue, when people are being brutally molested in Darfur. Upon hearing these magic words, you abandon all protest and the parking lot is built as planned.

Are you a better person now? No. All you did was short-change your basic human needs for some cheap rhetoric. And people are still being brutally molested in Darfur, because there is *nothing* you can do about it. It's a human trait that you can't go around constantly thinking about all the ills in the world without going insane. The moral high ground you're trying to establish cannot exist, and you're not actually doing anyone a favour by pushing your ideals on them.

Originally posted by mklinic

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by mklinic

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by mklinic

how does posting in one topic denote lack of concern for another?

I doesn't. I just think it's hypocrisy to go around acting like you care about people when there are bigger issues you could focus on rather than caring about some game.

Anyway, screw it. I'm not gonna bother anymore.

Your response seems pretty contradictory and generally ignores the whole premise that this is a game forum for discussing games and issues related to them. It would make no sense to discuss the BP oil spill, genocide in Darfur, or other significant issues in a forum that is not suited for such discussion.

I'm not trying to discuss those issues here. I just said I find it hypocritical, that's all. I can't reference real things because i'm in a gaming forum?

You can certainly reference them, but they would not be pertinent to the intent of the forums. Additionally, various rules regarding the discussion of religion and politics do limit some of the 'important' topics that can be discussed here.

So, I'm trying to understand your logic...People posting on-topic are hypocritical? Or is it that, those people who do believe this is a dangerous thing, should just give Blizzard a pass because there are worse things out there? 

If you believe RealID is a threat to you, by all means. Cancel you subscription. Do whatever. I don't care even the tiniest shred. I can even respect that. What I don't like is people trying to tell others that just because players can learn their real name, they are going to get killed or stalked by some online psycho. It is just fear mongering, plain and simple. I just don't agree with it. I mean, in my guild I know pretty much every regular by their real names.

And the thing I found hypocritical was acting like you care about people's safety while there are other people in much more dire need of help and attention. Sure, victims of internet crime is also a sad thing. But it pales in comparison to other bigger issues.

That's about all I have to say about this. I am using RealID and I will continue playing Blizzard games.

Originally posted by Horusra

Originally posted by generals3

Originally posted by Horusra

Originally posted by generals3

 

 

Now it is up to people like you to prove the majority who did not express their opinion they are in favor of it.

 

 I spoke to 5 people...they do not like you.  I now extrapolate that to the fact that the majority of the world does not like you.  Now you go prove the majority does not. 

About as useful as the forum polls for determining if this will work or fail.  Being non random sample, focused towards people up in arms on the issue, and in many cases the question is asked in a bias manner...yeah I am sure it is a great bell weather.

 

The question I asked the 5 ipeople is...Do you like the nazi generals3?  It was crazy that not even knowing you they did not like you.

 

You really did not think that post through for one second. A: Do those people know me ? Most likely not as you don't know me either .

Do the people know what Real ID is (the ones who voted) : Yes

B: Can you prove that those people said that? No you cannot

Can i prove a majority of the people who expressed their opinions on various sites/polls are against Real ID? If i even need to answer this question my palm will meet my face .

 

Also : Bias is everywhere , the day you meet someone unbiased call me , because that day i'll most likely be the new pope. Bias cannot be avoided , never . Just like 100% accuracy is unexistant , but in this case we're talking about dozens of sources around the web, which statistically increase the accuracy by a lot. Which is way i said "more than acceptable" , i never said "100% accurate as statistics almost never have a 100% accuracy".

But also aside from people liking it . the big question is: will it bring more good than harm? If trolling stops and no one gets hurt because of Real ID , sure. If someone gets hurt , well no trolling is worth that and if trolling doesn't stop than it was useless.

 You fail to understand.  If I present the information, in my example you, in a negative way and ask people to vote people that are not informed on their own beyond the information presented will vote only on the info you presented.  Polling is a profession.  It has a lot of science to it.  People are played a lot of money to figure out if a question is neutrally presented.  All the polls I have read have pretty much been presented in a negative way to begin with.  Thus science leads us to believe that people will vote in a way that supports the negative belief. 

I am not asking you to prove the people that vote voted against or for RealID.  I question if they know all the facts, if they were lead to their vote by reading only a negative story about it, if they are a random sample or only a sample of people (the vocal minority) that are up in arms against it and come to the forum to rail against it while the silent majority sits back. 

I need to prove nothing.  I am sure we could turn these polls over to companies and they would shot down any standing they have as being anything more than a pop poll of a very small sample thus really having no value for a company like Blizzard to work off of.

That is my problem with people pulling any real value beyond the number of people voting against are against.  To try to apply that number beyond the people that voted just does not hold any value.  In my example the only think you can learn is the 5 people I asked hate you because I said you were a nazi.  Other than that it means nothing. 

The replies on several articles showing no real negative bias and sometimes even positive bias got mostly negative responses. Just like my friend: i simply told her what Real ID did , no personal opinion added and didn't even mention the risks it could add. Just said "it will show your real name when you post on the forum" you can't get any more neutral than that and she still hated it. Now sure some will also love it . But i think overall amongst the people who did epxress their opinion its rather bad.

And from the reasons i read from both sides i can say the ones in disfavour thought about it a bit more. "it will stop the trolling" is the ONLY thing that the ones i favor bring up . Do they mention any possible risks it might bring? nope , because they didn't think that far ahead. Did they also think about the fact most trolls already dodged certain systems already in place on the WoW forums (by using lvl 1 toons by example) , do you really think its those people who will use their real name? No it will be people like me who always used the toon of his main as i wasn't scared of any possible in-game repercussion . But when it comes to possible RL repercussions , i'm sorry but that goes too far, mainly when people are out there who could use your name to harm you without any justification . If that system would only hurt the trolls , than ok , but a lot have stated quite some potential risks on how it would harm anyone , even honest and good posters.

I even read later on an analogy of yours about license plates. Think about the reason why that was implemented and the reason why real ID has been implemented. I think "catching criminals" >>>> money from a facebook deal. And yes the ideal matters. If someone murders an other person because that other person was about to kill other people its a lot less bad than an other person who'd murder someone for the sheer pleasure of it.

No system is fail proof but when you start tempting Murphy (Murphy's law: When something can go wrong , it will!) just for money , than no , it's not a good thing.

Just like in my duaghter's 2nd grade class, everyone has a name and they are not "pwnsauce"  or "megatron" or "Gankurface"

These WoW kids need to show their name, so they can be held accountable for causing trouble for others and a headache for moderators

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NgAkWxcPBE&feature=related

Since people are concerned about future job opportunities, Blizzard could remove Google indexing, but then again I doubt they will remove it.

Originally posted by Hrica

Just like in my duaghter's 2nd grade class, everyone has a name and they are not "pwnsauce"  or "megatron" or "Gankurface"

These WoW kids need to show their name, so they can be held accountable for causing trouble for others and a headache for moderators

I really doubt there are as many mentally unstable people lurking your daughter's second grade as there are lurking the internet . But i might be wrong but if that's the case you better make her switch school.

Also something i read: apperantly the most notorious troll in the Karazan realm forum in WoW (EU) has his name known by many who go on that forum section. He told it himself , and did it prevent him to keep on trolling ? Nope , because he is a troll , trolls often aren't the brightest and add to that it's not the honest player who is going to abuse personal information , it's the trolls like him who'd abuse personal information of the innocent player.

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by mklinic

You can certainly reference them, but they would not be pertinent to the intent of the forums. Additionally, various rules regarding the discussion of religion and politics do limit some of the 'important' topics that can be discussed here.

So, I'm trying to understand your logic...People posting on-topic are hypocritical? Or is it that, those people who do believe this is a dangerous thing, should just give Blizzard a pass because there are worse things out there? 

If you believe RealID is a threat to you, by all means. Cancel you subscription. Do whatever. I don't care even the tiniest shred. I can even respect that. What I don't like is people trying to tell others that just because players can learn their real name, they are going to get killed or stalked by some online psycho. It is just fear mongering, plain and simple. I just don't agree with it. I mean, in my guild I know pretty much every regular by their real names.

And the thing I found hypocritical was acting like you care about people's safety while there are other people in much more dire need of help and attention. Sure, victims of internet crime is also a sad thing. But it pales in comparison to other bigger issues.

That's about all I have to say about this. I am using RealID and I will continue playing Blizzard games.

ok, so you don't like the "fear mongering", that's a valid point. At the same time, those people might not like the dismissive "nothing can happen" attitude. So, I guess from that perspective, either side has the right to an equal voice.

Still not getting the hypocrisy though. I mean, how does posting on-topic to this thread make you a hypocrite or indicate in some way that you are less concerned about other issues in the world? I mean, what you are saying is, because there are bigger issues, this one is unimportant which is pretty rediculous. I mean, that sort of reasoning results in only one issue, the most important one, being worthy of discussion..

I think Blizzard must be a wee tiny bit concerned about the reaction.  My husband canceled last night and Blizzard Customer Service called this morning.  Once at 8:04 AM, which I didn't answer because Caller ID showed it was from "Unavailable" and again at 8:42 AM, which I answered because the screen read "International".  (our families are in Europe)  I took the name and number from a Mrs. Howell (yes, her first name seems to be Mrs.) for my husband although he doesn't seem to be inclined to call her back.  She had an American accent.  In any case, he did mention when he canceled that it was due to his concern with privacy.  I was going to resub for the new expansion but won't unless they change their policy.  I'm a little bothered about the Facebook association, too. 

Oh and everyone , look at that, blizzard cancelled it . Sooo , i guess our protest did matter?

Victory!

A battle was won not the war.... Blizz will think you are all suckers if go right back and resub its what they expect. Let the accounts stay canceled try a new game or new hobby and let this incident sit into their accounting books for a few months. God forbid this turns out like the "new coke fiasco" if you are old enough to remember.

Originally posted by hobo9766

A battle was won not the war.... Blizz will think you are all suckers if go right back and resub its what they expect. Let the accounts stay canceled try a new game or new hobby and let this incident sit into their accounting books for a few months. God forbid this turns out like the "new coke fiasco" if you are old enough to remember.

Exactly, that's what I'm thinking as well. They haven't said they they would withdraw the idea totally, just that they're not going to implement it right now. So in the future they may turn around and do so, keep the fright up until the make a promise that it will never be implemented, in any way shape or form.

Originally posted by hobo9766

A battle was won not the war.... Blizz will think you are all suckers if go right back and resub its what they expect. Let the accounts stay canceled try a new game or new hobby and let this incident sit into their accounting books for a few months. God forbid this turns out like the "new coke fiasco" if you are old enough to remember.

Oh but that is what i exactly think as well. Whether the Real ID war is won is yet to be known and only time will tell , but i think a won battle deserves some cheering as well. This said i will still not buy cata because the whole Real ID issue has just shown what Blizz is capable of and i'm pretty sure the thing they've learned with this is to be more subtle .