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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Crafting: What do you like?

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53 posts found
  Deepfry

Novice Member

Joined: 7/02/05
Posts: 13

6/30/10 9:08:46 AM#21

I too enjoy "complex" crafting and for me the absolute reference for crafting in an mmorpg was Star Wars Galaxies (the original, before Sony ruined it).

First of all SWG was a totally player-run economy.  With the exception of starting gear, everything was player-made and everything decayed, thus ensuring that crafters would always be needed.  When i say "everything" was made by players, i mean everything - armour, weapons, medicines, clothes, food, drink, land transport, space vessels, houses, furniture, musical instruments, entertainment props, mining equipment, crafting equipment, factories, surveying equipment ... the list is endless. 

I cannot even remember all the crafting professions, but those i can remember are:  Armoursmith, Weaponsmith, Doctor, Chef, Architect, Shipwright, Artisan, Tailor ...

There were maybe 15 resource categories (metals, ores, hard plastics, liquid plastics, woods, plants, gases, liquids, etc).  Each category contained literally dozens of sub-categories ... so under metals for example you would find all the metal types that you can think of (iron, steel, copper, zinc, tin, silver, gold,  ... etc etc).

There would then be spawns of these sub-categories, each with a different spawn name ... so, for example, there would be up to 100 different types of copper.  Every resource had 6-8 aspects (hardness, flexibility, durability, conductivity, etc) and each aspect was graded from 0-100.   (So for example, one copper spawn might be graded as follows:  Hyanarium Copper: Hardness 30, Durabilty 40, Conductivity 96, Flexibility 68, etc).

Spawns would last from between 1 day and 2 weeks.  The chances were that the exact same resource would never spawn again.  You had to use your scouting and surveying skills to locate the spawns (which could be on any of 9 different planets), then find the best concentrations and then set up mining machinery to mine/harvest them.

Once you had collected the best possible resources, you could then work on trying to improve certain aspects, depending on your skills (increasing a wood's hardness for example, or a plastic's flexibility).  You would then create your first sub-components, on which you could again conduct experiments to improve certain aspects.  These sub-components would then be put together to form main components (more experimentation) which in turn would form the finished product (more experimentation). 

All of this experimenting allowed crafters to concentrate ondifferent aspects of an object.  You might choose to make armour which offered less protection, but which lasted longer before needing to be replaced, or which was lighter and therefore allowed faster movement.  Or a house which was more energy efficient and thus had lower running costs.  Or a medicine which was very powerful but whose effect lasted only 10 minutes ... as opposed to a 30-minute but less effective one.

The quality of the final product thus depended on the character's skill in finding and mining the best resources, the quality of the tools he used (player-made, varying qualities), his experimentation skills, the quality of his mining and construction equipment (player-made, varying qualities), etc.  It is no exaggeration to say that every item created in SWG was unique.

  ChrisMattern

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1469

6/30/10 11:59:38 AM#22


Originally posted by neosapience
I've never played an MMO where crafting was anything more than a boring time sink.

Then you've never played EvE. And you've never played FFXI, where, yeah, crafting is a boring time sink, but it's also more than that. Most vital consumables have to be crafted in FFXI, and a lot of good equipment can only be created by crafting as well.

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 5751

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

6/30/10 3:43:37 PM#23
Originally posted by Gabby-air
Originally posted by Fishbaitz

I just find it funny that we have polar opposites posting after one another. One claiming gear progression should all be from drops, and another advocating item decay in order for crafters to be needed in the long term. (neosapience and Delzo)

Trust me item decay is very strong, a great example of this is fallen earth. Now the main feature of that game is its crafting but the AH their is very rarely used and thier is very little need of crafters their. Why? Because you usually have enough mats to make your own gear or theirs usually a guildie who will make it for you if he doesnt give you his old gear before. The problem is, the people at the cap only needed to make their gear once and their set, no more need of crafters after that.

Fallen Earth player here, my most played and fun MMORPG before will always be Star Wars Galaxies, yes for me personaly if crafting is a afterthought and a MMO is to much loot-gear oriented with very limited crafting then I know it's not the game for me.

I am a capped crafter, but unlike many I still craft low lvl till cap items, I do craft for the fun it gives me, play other type of game genre for my combat fixe as MMORPG combat never really satisfied me fully, now don't get me wrong combat in MMORPG can be fun, but personaly I like combat in other genre of games to be much better suited towards me taste, crafting is actually something else when done right in a MMORPG, it can not be found in single or mulitplayer games and if it's in those games it's often very limited to self progression, unlike MMORPG's where it can mean allot towards allot of friends/players/guild/clanmembers.

Yes I like my crafting to have meaning towards more then myself, I don't craft in Fallen Earth just for myself, but do so for the playing community and some friends I have made along my journey's in the gameworld, obviously I do make things that I do need myself, but overall I take my time and my challenge is to be able to craft every single item the gameworld can offer me, it does take up allot of time to gather the mats, but again I do take my time to do so, which means I am NOT able to play a MMORPG 24/7 but am able to atleast squize in a few hours during week day's till some sunday's where I have more time to spend playing my favorite hobby.

I also know I am a niche type of gamer when it comes to playing games in this genre and am pretty sure that a majority of players would just choose to make what they themself need, obviously there are plenty players around who do so because they are guilded or some might just be like me and find their own challenge/niche within the crafting game a MMORPG can offer. So I fully understand that crafting is not something everyone enjoy's, shame that some people are blinded to actually think that combat isn't a timesink and crafting is, if people would open their eye's and would be honost we all should know that every single game regardless it's genre and regardless how a persons is playing game X it's alway's a timesink, when people figure that out we might have much better discussions about playing games in this genre. Cause as I said every game ever made is a timesink, what really matters is what YOU (commonly speaking) are enjoying within that time spend playing .

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5736

7/01/10 12:30:01 PM#24
Originally posted by Fishbaitz

I was responding to a post on another forum on crafting, telling him my thoughts on the matter. He was for having a myriad of crafting profession and gathering professions, like mining, gathering, smithing, fletching, cooking, ect; with many levels or tiers in each category. He supported this with it meant a good economy and lots of content. I was inclined to disagree.

My thoughts on the matter is that crafting should be limited to the actual crafting professions with less or smaller levels in them. And gathering would be largely simplified as well by giving more from each resource node. I supported this with the claim that his style of crafting isn't fun and is overly grindy, and that you don't need gathering professions to support crafting professions in order to have a good economy. I also stated that crafting like that is not a lot of content.

We both claimed that the majority of the MMO community was behind us, but I got curiose and wanted to find out what other people thought about it all.

So, do you like blueprint or exploratory crafting? Gathering and Crafting or Crafting alone? Multi-combination materials or straight materials? Many tiered materials or few generic ones? I want to know your thoughts and any examples of crafting systems found in games that you like or dislike. I want to know what the MMO community wants.

 

*I would poll, but it doesn't give the option for multi answer sooo... no*

Give us a example of some of the crafting

  Morgaren

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/09
Posts: 388

For me, the gates will open.

7/01/10 12:37:43 PM#25

I like having gathering and crafting, so people who need some money can just sell resources, and they need to be multi teired, so more advanced characters can get better quality materials.

Rare materials need to take some work to get, and recipes, I tried the whole just combine stuff and find out what it makes, and decided i don't like that, now i do like having a research, or experiment type recipe that allows you to use materials for a chance to get a new rare recipe, but anyways.

As far as the crafting itself, I don't like having to play a minigame to craft, makes it too grindy. I just want to collect the materials, and then either put them in some area where they start making or just make them myself, with no chance of failure, there can be a chance that I make something better but I hate farming for mats for an hour or two, and then only make two items cause my luck of the draw caused me to fail 16 times in a row.

  godzilr1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/09/06
Posts: 551

7/01/10 12:42:29 PM#26

I enjoy crafting to a point.  I like it to be something simple.  I know i'm gonna get shit for this but i liked some of the crafting in WoW.  I liked makling potions because they were always needed and useful.  With the potions it was take these items and you get what you needed.  I didnt like engineering much because of all the sub combines.  I also liked the gathering in WoW.  BS/LW i found to jsut be a waste because the dungeons/raid negated anything you did.  Though i liked the idea of the armor patches and stuff like that as a side set of enhancements.  It made crafting still useful for the BS/LW professions.  i like what vanguard and EQ2 did for the process of crafting but after like 50 it just became a pain, irritating and boring to me.

  Ariste

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/05
Posts: 39

7/01/10 1:22:00 PM#27

I really enjoyed crafting back in the very early days of EQ2. First of all, the actual crafting process was at least moderately interesting. But more importantly, there was this great market for intermediate products that emerged between crafting professions. For example, as  Jeweler, I was able to make certain components that were used in recipes for Blacksmiths. I made a pretty good living off this, until they nerfed it into the ground and removed interdependence among crafters.

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

7/01/10 1:32:39 PM#28

I'm not sure I entirely understand, but I like crafting complicated and separated into different directions.  I like when making a pure crafter means making a better crafter than one can make with a crafter / fighter.  I like when making a pure blacksmith will be a superior blacksmith to a blacksmith / miner, yet inferior in lacking versatility.  Basically, I like when gameplay is diversified by choices the player has to make.  The more, the better.

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  wolfing

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/04
Posts: 150

7/01/10 1:33:21 PM#29

I like when crafting is a game in itself, like in EQ2 and Vanguard. I hate the 'gather mats and click' systems like WoW's.

I also think crafting should either be integral to an MMO or not there at all. Games that have it 'tacked on' after the fact just end up with a sorry implementation, generally only there so they can put an extra line in their marketing material.

As far as professions and what not, I'm ok with having some 4 to 6 *crafting* professions, independant from gathering. I love crafting and I hate gathering, but I know people that are the contrary. In SWG I just bought all my mats from other players as I found that gathering was becoming an extra job... let those who enjoy it, do it.

  astoria

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/08
Posts: 1685

7/01/10 1:38:32 PM#30

I like crafting that is complex. More complex than in most MMOs. I like the system in SWG, Ryzom, FE, and Vanguard to an extent.

Crafted items should always be better than dropped or NPC made. If the game has a combat gear grind, you should be able to have a gear grind for crafters. Nicer furnace, better anvil, better hammer. These should have small but additive benefits to the weapons, armorm, etc they make.

Now, that being said, I don't personally enjoy crafting. I just want more exciting options for those people that do. I want to be able to play my combat roles and have real incentive to buy an individual's crafts. I want crafters to become respected as 'the uber fletcher of eastmarsh'

I would like crafting professions to be their own classes, but unlike most games, I'd like crafters to have important combat roles since that usually is the bigger focus of a game.

I think crafters should be buffers, repairers, and builders of mounts and seige structures. For a game with mounted combat you would need crafter classes to quickly repair or heal mounts. Perhaps combat classes could do so slowly, but too slow for heat of battle.

"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga

  wolfing

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/04
Posts: 150

7/01/10 1:53:52 PM#31
Originally posted by astoria

I like crafting that is complex. More complex than in most MMOs. I like the system in SWG, Ryzom, FE, and Vanguard to an extent.

Crafted items should always be better than dropped or NPC made. If the game has a combat gear grind, you should be able to have a gear grind for crafters. Nicer furnace, better anvil, better hammer. These should have small but additive benefits to the weapons, armorm, etc they make.

Now, that being said, I don't personally enjoy crafting. I just want more exciting options for those people that do. I want to be able to play my combat roles and have real incentive to buy an individual's crafts. I want crafters to become respected as 'the uber fletcher of eastmarsh'

I would like crafting professions to be their own classes, but unlike most games, I'd like crafters to have important combat roles since that usually is the bigger focus of a game.

I think crafters should be buffers, repairers, and builders of mounts and seige structures. For a game with mounted combat you would need crafter classes to quickly repair or heal mounts. Perhaps combat classes could do so slowly, but too slow for heat of battle.

I agree except for the combat part. Problem with them being 'buffers' is that it would just make them the perfect 'mules'. Just add to the group for buffs.

I think each character should have an optional combat class and an optional crafter class (you could be pure combat or pure crafter if you want, or both, none interfering with the other), but crafting has nothing to do with the combat process just as combat has nothing to do with crafting process.

  astoria

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/08
Posts: 1685

7/01/10 1:59:59 PM#32
Originally posted by wolfing
Originally posted by astoria

I like crafting that is complex. More complex than in most MMOs. I like the system in SWG, Ryzom, FE, and Vanguard to an extent.

Crafted items should always be better than dropped or NPC made. If the game has a combat gear grind, you should be able to have a gear grind for crafters. Nicer furnace, better anvil, better hammer. These should have small but additive benefits to the weapons, armorm, etc they make.

Now, that being said, I don't personally enjoy crafting. I just want more exciting options for those people that do. I want to be able to play my combat roles and have real incentive to buy an individual's crafts. I want crafters to become respected as 'the uber fletcher of eastmarsh'

I would like crafting professions to be their own classes, but unlike most games, I'd like crafters to have important combat roles since that usually is the bigger focus of a game.

I think crafters should be buffers, repairers, and builders of mounts and seige structures. For a game with mounted combat you would need crafter classes to quickly repair or heal mounts. Perhaps combat classes could do so slowly, but too slow for heat of battle.

I agree except for the combat part. Problem with them being 'buffers' is that it would just make them the perfect 'mules'. Just add to the group for buffs.

I think each character should have an optional combat class and an optional crafter class (you could be pure combat or pure crafter if you want, or both, none interfering with the other), but crafting has nothing to do with the combat process just as combat has nothing to do with crafting process.

 Good points. I guess I was thinking as buffers as more large scale open-world PvP where they remain inside castle, trench, base, turrets. Also thinking about entertainers who seem to thrive in SWG and they are a type of 'crafter.'

"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga

  Zarcob

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/03
Posts: 207

7/01/10 2:17:21 PM#33
Originally posted by Fishbaitz

I was responding to a post on another forum on crafting, telling him my thoughts on the matter. He was for having a myriad of crafting profession and gathering professions, like mining, gathering, smithing, fletching, cooking, ect; with many levels or tiers in each category. He supported this with it meant a good economy and lots of content. I was inclined to disagree.

My thoughts on the matter is that crafting should be limited to the actual crafting professions with less or smaller levels in them. And gathering would be largely simplified as well by giving more from each resource node. I supported this with the claim that his style of crafting isn't fun and is overly grindy, and that you don't need gathering professions to support crafting professions in order to have a good economy. I also stated that crafting like that is not a lot of content.

We both claimed that the majority of the MMO community was behind us, but I got curiose and wanted to find out what other people thought about it all.

So, do you like blueprint or exploratory crafting? Gathering and Crafting or Crafting alone? Multi-combination materials or straight materials? Many tiered materials or few generic ones? I want to know your thoughts and any examples of crafting systems found in games that you like or dislike. I want to know what the MMO community wants.

 

*I would poll, but it doesn't give the option for multi answer sooo... no*

I agree and disagree with you.

 

I agree on the gathering part - I don't think gathering itself should be a profession.  At best, some games create "processing" skills that turn gathering into actual jobs.  In that situation, a player can collect raw lumber, but it needs to be processed into wooden boards before it can be used.  Even though this is fairly realistic it replicates the least interesting part of a craft and really does create virtual jobs nobody wants to do, encouraging a lot of price gouging, botting and farming.  I don't think it needs to be done, so I'm inclined to agree with you that it's better to make gathering skills pretty accessible and not require some ridiculous leveling period.  It shouldn't be a job.  I prefer spending most of my time traveling around and looking for the resources, not making a billion trips back and forth or deforesting an entire continent to make one object - gathering resources as far as the eye can see but always yielding the minimal amount is just frustratingly slow.

 

But I'm not sure I get what you were saying with crafting itself.  I like a lot of crafts, even if they don't replicate professions.  I like lots of interacting skills or classes and plenty of things to make for a variety of activities.  I even like intermediate or interdependent craft skills, such as a blacksmith making hammers for the carpenter, but it's best if it becomes easier to produce these as the player advances so there is an abundant surplus in later months.  I don't mind if it's difficult to get a single iron nail when the game is first released, but I expect barrels of nails to be available for mere pennies within a few months when enough crafters are available.

The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.

  Mehve

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 489

7/01/10 2:40:44 PM#34

My own opinion is that crafting should provide the best gear, but the mats necessary should be obtained through a mixture of standard gathering, and mob drops, with the geography and danger of the former, as well as the difficulty and rarity of the latter set according to the value of the item. Both should involve a least some element of danger and be public, to discourage botting. Open-world harvesting/mining or raiding, for example.

Once the ingredients are obtained, the item should be a assured (given the necessary crafting skill, of course). None of this RNG crap where you might succeed, or might fail and be rewarded with nothing. Put the time sinks into the collecting of the mats, pls. If someone gives me the ingredients for an item, wanting to pay me to actually create the item, he shouldn't have to wonder if my failure to craft the item was honest, or me stealing his hard-collected mats.

Situations where you need to craft 100 of a basic item to progress to a higher level may be realistic, but if the economy can't buy those 100 basic items, it's a crutch and grind, plain and simple. And an especially annoying one, imo.

A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs:
That the means of progression would not be mutually exclusive from the means of enjoyment.

  Ariste

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/05
Posts: 39

7/01/10 3:23:49 PM#35
Originally posted by Mehve

My own opinion is that crafting should provide the best gear, but the mats necessary should be obtained through a mixture of standard gathering, and mob drops, with the geography and danger of the former, as well as the difficulty and rarity of the latter set according to the value of the item. Both should involve a least some element of danger and be public, to discourage botting. Open-world harvesting/mining or raiding, for example.

Once the ingredients are obtained, the item should be a assured (given the necessary crafting skill, of course). None of this RNG crap where you might succeed, or might fail and be rewarded with nothing. Put the time sinks into the collecting of the mats, pls. If someone gives me the ingredients for an item, wanting to pay me to actually create the item, he shouldn't have to wonder if my failure to craft the item was honest, or me stealing his hard-collected mats.

Situations where you need to craft 100 of a basic item to progress to a higher level may be realistic, but if the economy can't buy those 100 basic items, it's a crutch and grind, plain and simple. And an especially annoying one, imo.

 

Just want to say that I agree, and I like your sig :)

  Dibdabs

Elite Member

Joined: 5/29/08
Posts: 2339

7/01/10 4:01:37 PM#36
Originally posted by Gabby-air

I think very little amount of people actually enjoy crafting

I have loathed and despised Crafting in every game I have played in the last decade.  The amount of time, game currency and effort involved, simply to make junk in order to get skillups is mega-boring.  It isn't as if you end up ultimately makiing anything all that useful to either yourself or anyone else.  I'd rather games didn't feature player crafting at all, because it's just an exercise in tedium.  Guild Wars suits me fine in this regard - I salvage mats as I play and simply pay an NPC to craft something that I want.

  darthlopez

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 29

7/01/10 4:04:53 PM#37

I really enjoyed the crafting system in Pre-Moria Lotro.  It wasn't nearly as complex as crafting systems found in other games like SWG and Vanguard, but I still found it to be quite rewarding.  I tend to prefer games that make crafting a sub profession.  I like having crafting to fall back on when i'm not in the mood to quest or grind mobs.  During the Pre-Moria Lotro, top end crafted weapons and armor were on par with top of the line looted items.  During those days, gear gating wasn't as big of an issue as it is in the game today.  This change to the game was one of the primary reasons why I stopped playing.

 

However, I also do appreciate more complex crafting system like the ones offered in games like Vanguard and SWG, but I don't think those system would work in more casual MMOs like Lotro and WOW.  I would definitely like to see more games in development with the types of systems. 

  Hedeon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/05
Posts: 889

7/01/10 4:36:11 PM#38
Originally posted by Mehve

My own opinion is that crafting should provide the best gear, but the mats necessary should be obtained through a mixture of standard gathering, and mob drops, with the geography and danger of the former, as well as the difficulty and rarity of the latter set according to the value of the item. Both should involve a least some element of danger and be public, to discourage botting. Open-world harvesting/mining or raiding, for example.

Once the ingredients are obtained, the item should be a assured (given the necessary crafting skill, of course). None of this RNG crap where you might succeed, or might fail and be rewarded with nothing. Put the time sinks into the collecting of the mats, pls. If someone gives me the ingredients for an item, wanting to pay me to actually create the item, he shouldn't have to wonder if my failure to craft the item was honest, or me stealing his hard-collected mats.

Situations where you need to craft 100 of a basic item to progress to a higher level may be realistic, but if the economy can't buy those 100 basic items, it's a crutch and grind, plain and simple. And an especially annoying one, imo.

alot in this reply is how Im thinking.  mainly because I dont find crafting fun when you have to do 1 item with no value 1000 times...also a reason some games just add a progress bar and let you put in how many of said item you want, its just not fun to me.

as this guy prefer that the time sink should mainly be when you out harvesting, and prefered to be a mix of gathering and killing, depending on what you want to build.

now the way Id love to see gaining new recipes would be you had to find those as well....be it an NPC that you have to do a favour for or be lucky to find an ancient scroll in a dungeon...whatever, just wish it were less simple than go find your "crafter mentor"...sure a crafter mentor to get you into crafting is just great, but prefer if its not THE crafting game.

have yet to have seen a perfectly fun crafting gameplay, that in end could be enough to make some being pure crafters, simply because they have so little to offer in the usual instance grind for gear drops setup.

dont think you need to have decay on items when its like this, but if wrong could make it so that the durability is quite long and if you needed a rare kill, make it so its not a 1 time use....make it so you dont have to grind but may have to repeat it if you want the item again later, but personally would prefer it just were rare to find what you need, for the great items in game.

either way would love to see a game making crafting fun, so far ryzom´s crafting were the best Ive tried, just the fact you need to figure how drops affect your craft is great.....and no havent played SWG.

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 5751

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

7/01/10 4:40:09 PM#39
Originally posted by Dibdabs
Originally posted by Gabby-air

I think very little amount of people actually enjoy crafting

I have loathed and despised Crafting in every game I have played in the last decade.  The amount of time, game currency and effort involved, simply to make junk in order to get skillups is mega-boring.  It isn't as if you end up ultimately makiing anything all that useful to either yourself or anyone else.  I'd rather games didn't feature player crafting at all, because it's just an exercise in tedium.  Guild Wars suits me fine in this regard - I salvage mats as I play and simply pay an NPC to craft something that I want.

 Good thing for you then that there are sooooooo many games where crafting is just a afterthought so plenty of choices for you, I myself play sooooo many games that don't have crafting, yet in MMORPG I feel it's a much needed part for me to actually enjoy a MMORPG, else I just enjoy ALL those other games without crafting.

Not sure why you despise or loath crafting so much as it's very VERY limited in most current MMO's, so you should be a pretty satisfied player in the current form of this genre.

  Suraknar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 808

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

7/01/10 5:03:13 PM#40

Personally I loved Crafting in Ultima Online, and of course Star Wars galaxies which was an improvement of the UO crafting model.

The distinction these two Craftying systems have with most of other games is that Crafting itself is not part or required for Game progression on an individual basis.

Meaning that if you made a character of a given role and speciality you did not have to be also a crafter in order to be viable.

This can only be possible if the Crafting system itself, does not contain Ultra Rare and Difficult to find or aquire elements obtained by its gathering. In Ultima Online, you could Cut wood everywhere where there was trees, or mine for Ore in every single Hill side or mounten all over the map, sheath Sheep for wool and turn that in to cloth...there was no ressource hunting.

In SWG, it was the same, ressources for gathering were abundant everywhere of all its basic types, metals organics etc...it even touk gathering a step further than UO by introducing unnatended gathering, you placed a harvester and it gathered the ressources for you.

This meant that there was abundant ressources, which in turn meant that the player market was not inflated which in turn meant that someone who was not a crafter can be viable because they can afford to consume the produce of other players.

Secondly, all of the crafter produce in both of these games were normal items everyone used in a daily basis. There was no really super rare gear, and even if there was some exceptionally crafted items the different with the average items was not game breaking for anyone.

So whether the crafting system is made up for 6 harvestable basic ressources or 300 subcategories of ressources, is really not that important in the end.

What is really important, in my opinion, is how crafting is included in the big picture of the game and how it impacts the gameplay of the individual.

Example you cannot make a crafting system contain rare and hard to aquire components in agame that features involuntary loss... it will simply result in grind and encourage RMT and ultimatelly turn people off the game itself.

On the other hand if there is crafting make it fit with the game, it would be insignificant to have in a game if the crafting produce is surpassed by the droped items in the game...like for example Crafting in WoW it is good for getting some gear when leveling but at end game it is either insignificant or simply a hassle.

Crafting in Lineage2 was a huge huge GrindFest. Crafting in EVE, may seem exciting at first but its gathering is boring as hell, and it tends to be too lengthy and complex too when you include research and standings etc etc, plus, it is a game with involuntary loss...

The point is that crafting should be part of the game but not the focus of the game, unless the game itself is about Economics...such as EVE..then again, not everyone's cup of tea either.

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

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