Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

There is no MMO with more content than WoW has. Please tell me if you find a MMO that has added more content over it's lifetime than WoW. Still people complain. I don't get it.

WoW has an awful lot of content, alright. The sad thing is they make it obsolate whenever a new expansion comes out, so it has a fixed amount of content to play in any given time.

It's not obsolete. At level 60 the vanilla gear is still useful for the vanilla content, for example. Yeah, gearing up on TBC greens is still better than the vanilla gear. But how do you propose adding new content without making the older content useless? It's not possible.

Lvl 60 purple gear is replaced by lvl 61 green gear... sounds obsolete to me.

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

There is no MMO with more content than WoW has. Please tell me if you find a MMO that has added more content over it's lifetime than WoW. Still people complain. I don't get it.

WoW has an awful lot of content, alright. The sad thing is they make it obsolate whenever a new expansion comes out, so it has a fixed amount of content to play in any given time.

It's not obsolete. At level 60 the vanilla gear is still useful for the vanilla content, for example. Yeah, gearing up on TBC greens is still better than the vanilla gear. But how do you propose adding new content without making the older content useless? It's not possible.

Lvl 60 purple gear is replaced by lvl 61 green gear... sounds obsolete to me.

The lvl 60 purple is still useful if your doing vanilla content. But my question was, how can you add content without the old becoming obsolete?

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

There is no MMO with more content than WoW has. Please tell me if you find a MMO that has added more content over it's lifetime than WoW. Still people complain. I don't get it.

WoW has an awful lot of content, alright. The sad thing is they make it obsolate whenever a new expansion comes out, so it has a fixed amount of content to play in any given time.

It's not obsolete. At level 60 the vanilla gear is still useful for the vanilla content, for example. Yeah, gearing up on TBC greens is still better than the vanilla gear. But how do you propose adding new content without making the older content useless? It's not possible.

Yeah, you'd either have to have old gear still worthwhile or some sort of more difficult mode for older content so it stays relevent.  That's never something WoW would do.

You could also add content that doesn't get obsolete as easily.  Other games have done it, but WoW isn't really that innovative here nor immatative, for that matter.  Random events, PvE BGs, and other sorts of things could be added to the game, but they just don't bother.  And what they do add typically is extremely unchallenging and very grindy such as the holiday stuff.  WoW started out as grind-lite, and has ended up as a grindfest.  Pretty lame, imho.

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

There is no MMO with more content than WoW has. Please tell me if you find a MMO that has added more content over it's lifetime than WoW. Still people complain. I don't get it.

WoW has an awful lot of content, alright. The sad thing is they make it obsolate whenever a new expansion comes out, so it has a fixed amount of content to play in any given time.

It's not obsolete. At level 60 the vanilla gear is still useful for the vanilla content, for example. Yeah, gearing up on TBC greens is still better than the vanilla gear. But how do you propose adding new content without making the older content useless? It's not possible.

Lvl 60 purple gear is replaced by lvl 61 green gear... sounds obsolete to me.

The lvl 60 purple is still useful if your doing vanilla content. But my question was, how can you add content without the old becoming obsolete?

The point is that lvl 51 greens do not obsolete lvl 50 purples... Yet when the put on an expansion, BAM one level destroys it all.

As for adding content without old becoming obsolete.... there's room for thousands of new low-level quests and areas... these could all be added without obsoleting anything, simply providing more options for areas and situations to experience.

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

There is no MMO with more content than WoW has. Please tell me if you find a MMO that has added more content over it's lifetime than WoW. Still people complain. I don't get it.

WoW has an awful lot of content, alright. The sad thing is they make it obsolate whenever a new expansion comes out, so it has a fixed amount of content to play in any given time.

It's not obsolete. At level 60 the vanilla gear is still useful for the vanilla content, for example. Yeah, gearing up on TBC greens is still better than the vanilla gear. But how do you propose adding new content without making the older content useless? It's not possible.

Lvl 60 purple gear is replaced by lvl 61 green gear... sounds obsolete to me.

The lvl 60 purple is still useful if your doing vanilla content. But my question was, how can you add content without the old becoming obsolete?

The point is that lvl 51 greens do not obsolete lvl 50 purples... Yet when the put on an expansion, BAM one level destroys it all.

As for adding content without old becoming obsolete.... there's room for thousands of new low-level quests and areas... these could all be added without obsoleting anything, simply providing more options for areas and situations to experience.

Lots of innovative ideas on how to make content that stays relevant and interesting in an MMO.  Blizzard just isn't coming up with or using any of them.

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

There is no MMO with more content than WoW has. Please tell me if you find a MMO that has added more content over it's lifetime than WoW. Still people complain. I don't get it.

WoW has an awful lot of content, alright. The sad thing is they make it obsolate whenever a new expansion comes out, so it has a fixed amount of content to play in any given time.

It's not obsolete. At level 60 the vanilla gear is still useful for the vanilla content, for example. Yeah, gearing up on TBC greens is still better than the vanilla gear. But how do you propose adding new content without making the older content useless? It's not possible.

Lvl 60 purple gear is replaced by lvl 61 green gear... sounds obsolete to me.

The lvl 60 purple is still useful if your doing vanilla content. But my question was, how can you add content without the old becoming obsolete?

That's very easy: In order to get to the new content you first have to clear the old content. There are way too many shortcuts in WoW nowdays. Anyway, I'm done with this aging kids game, so I don't really care what they'll do with it.

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

There is no MMO with more content than WoW has. Please tell me if you find a MMO that has added more content over it's lifetime than WoW. Still people complain. I don't get it.

WoW has an awful lot of content, alright. The sad thing is they make it obsolate whenever a new expansion comes out, so it has a fixed amount of content to play in any given time.

It's not obsolete. At level 60 the vanilla gear is still useful for the vanilla content, for example. Yeah, gearing up on TBC greens is still better than the vanilla gear. But how do you propose adding new content without making the older content useless? It's not possible.

Lvl 60 purple gear is replaced by lvl 61 green gear... sounds obsolete to me.

The lvl 60 purple is still useful if your doing vanilla content. But my question was, how can you add content without the old becoming obsolete?

The point is that lvl 51 greens do not obsolete lvl 50 purples... Yet when the put on an expansion, BAM one level destroys it all.

As for adding content without old becoming obsolete.... there's room for thousands of new low-level quests and areas... these could all be added without obsoleting anything, simply providing more options for areas and situations to experience.

So your basicly saying, remove all character progression? Gear wouldn't matter anymore. The only thing that would matter in a boss encounter, for instance would be if you know the tactics to defeat the boss.

Character progression is pretty key in WoW, so I don't see that happening.

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

There is no MMO with more content than WoW has. Please tell me if you find a MMO that has added more content over it's lifetime than WoW. Still people complain. I don't get it.

WoW has an awful lot of content, alright. The sad thing is they make it obsolate whenever a new expansion comes out, so it has a fixed amount of content to play in any given time.

It's not obsolete. At level 60 the vanilla gear is still useful for the vanilla content, for example. Yeah, gearing up on TBC greens is still better than the vanilla gear. But how do you propose adding new content without making the older content useless? It's not possible.

Lvl 60 purple gear is replaced by lvl 61 green gear... sounds obsolete to me.

The lvl 60 purple is still useful if your doing vanilla content. But my question was, how can you add content without the old becoming obsolete?

The point is that lvl 51 greens do not obsolete lvl 50 purples... Yet when the put on an expansion, BAM one level destroys it all.

As for adding content without old becoming obsolete.... there's room for thousands of new low-level quests and areas... these could all be added without obsoleting anything, simply providing more options for areas and situations to experience.

So your basicly saying, remove all character progression? Gear wouldn't matter anymore. The only thing that would matter in a boss encounter, for instance would be if you know the tactics to defeat the boss.

Character progression is pretty key in WoW, so I don't see that happening.

That's not what he said at all.  Wow...way to make a strawman.

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

There is no MMO with more content than WoW has. Please tell me if you find a MMO that has added more content over it's lifetime than WoW. Still people complain. I don't get it.

WoW has an awful lot of content, alright. The sad thing is they make it obsolate whenever a new expansion comes out, so it has a fixed amount of content to play in any given time.

It's not obsolete. At level 60 the vanilla gear is still useful for the vanilla content, for example. Yeah, gearing up on TBC greens is still better than the vanilla gear. But how do you propose adding new content without making the older content useless? It's not possible.

Lvl 60 purple gear is replaced by lvl 61 green gear... sounds obsolete to me.

The lvl 60 purple is still useful if your doing vanilla content. But my question was, how can you add content without the old becoming obsolete?

The point is that lvl 51 greens do not obsolete lvl 50 purples... Yet when the put on an expansion, BAM one level destroys it all.

As for adding content without old becoming obsolete.... there's room for thousands of new low-level quests and areas... these could all be added without obsoleting anything, simply providing more options for areas and situations to experience.

So your basicly saying, remove all character progression? Gear wouldn't matter anymore. The only thing that would matter in a boss encounter, for instance would be if you know the tactics to defeat the boss.

Character progression is pretty key in WoW, so I don't see that happening.

I lol'd :)

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

There is no MMO with more content than WoW has. Please tell me if you find a MMO that has added more content over it's lifetime than WoW. Still people complain. I don't get it.

WoW has an awful lot of content, alright. The sad thing is they make it obsolate whenever a new expansion comes out, so it has a fixed amount of content to play in any given time.

It's not obsolete. At level 60 the vanilla gear is still useful for the vanilla content, for example. Yeah, gearing up on TBC greens is still better than the vanilla gear. But how do you propose adding new content without making the older content useless? It's not possible.

Lvl 60 purple gear is replaced by lvl 61 green gear... sounds obsolete to me.

The lvl 60 purple is still useful if your doing vanilla content. But my question was, how can you add content without the old becoming obsolete?

The point is that lvl 51 greens do not obsolete lvl 50 purples... Yet when the put on an expansion, BAM one level destroys it all.

As for adding content without old becoming obsolete.... there's room for thousands of new low-level quests and areas... these could all be added without obsoleting anything, simply providing more options for areas and situations to experience.

So your basicly saying, remove all character progression? Gear wouldn't matter anymore. The only thing that would matter in a boss encounter, for instance would be if you know the tactics to defeat the boss.

Character progression is pretty key in WoW, so I don't see that happening.

No, i'm saying add more options and choices to character progression.  More unique and original content.  Not a 30 minute dungeon that you're expected to do 1000 times and consider it 30000 minutes of content.

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

There is no MMO with more content than WoW has. Please tell me if you find a MMO that has added more content over it's lifetime than WoW. Still people complain. I don't get it.

WoW has an awful lot of content, alright. The sad thing is they make it obsolate whenever a new expansion comes out, so it has a fixed amount of content to play in any given time.

It's not obsolete. At level 60 the vanilla gear is still useful for the vanilla content, for example. Yeah, gearing up on TBC greens is still better than the vanilla gear. But how do you propose adding new content without making the older content useless? It's not possible.

Lvl 60 purple gear is replaced by lvl 61 green gear... sounds obsolete to me.

The lvl 60 purple is still useful if your doing vanilla content. But my question was, how can you add content without the old becoming obsolete?

The point is that lvl 51 greens do not obsolete lvl 50 purples... Yet when the put on an expansion, BAM one level destroys it all.

As for adding content without old becoming obsolete.... there's room for thousands of new low-level quests and areas... these could all be added without obsoleting anything, simply providing more options for areas and situations to experience.

So your basicly saying, remove all character progression? Gear wouldn't matter anymore. The only thing that would matter in a boss encounter, for instance would be if you know the tactics to defeat the boss.

Character progression is pretty key in WoW, so I don't see that happening.

I lol'd :)

Good for you. I think you guys are just trying to make WoW into something it's not. It is pretty clear what WoW is all about. You can bitch all you want it's not going to change anything. So good luck finding your super-duper MMO. My guess is there is no pleasing you anyway.

Originally posted by Zoulz

Good for you. I think you guys are just trying to make WoW into something it's not. It is pretty clear what WoW is all about. You can bitch all you want it's not going to change anything. So good luck finding your super-duper MMO. My guess is there is no pleasing you anyway.

I want you to read the title of this thread.

Now read it again.

Now read it a third time.

Now think about how it relates to someone saying "I wish X was in WoW."

Now think about that some more.

Now a little more.

We're certainly not making it into something it is not.

As for finding my super-duper MMO, I'm enthused by TOR, FFXIV, GW2, and other stuff on the horizon.  They seem to have some very, very sound ideas on keeping things interesting at all levels.

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Zoulz

Good for you. I think you guys are just trying to make WoW into something it's not. It is pretty clear what WoW is all about. You can bitch all you want it's not going to change anything. So good luck finding your super-duper MMO. My guess is there is no pleasing you anyway.

I want you to read the title of this thread.

Now read it again.

Now read it a third time.

Now think about how it relates to someone saying "I wish X was in WoW."

Now think about that some more.

Now a little more.

We're certainly not making it into something it is not.

As for finding my super-duper MMO, I'm enthused by TOR, FFXIV, GW2, and other stuff on the horizon.  They seem to have some very, very sound ideas on keeping things interesting at all levels.

Hehe, ok. I'll keep an eye out for your 'Why I left TOR, FFXIV or GW2 forever' threads in the future. Have fun.

thread should read why you should care i left wow forever .. wahh self entitlement i = everyones opinion... wow was so 2 years ago welcome to the play a game for a few months try a new game era

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

There is no MMO with more content than WoW has. Please tell me if you find a MMO that has added more content over it's lifetime than WoW. Still people complain. I don't get it.

WoW has an awful lot of content, alright. The sad thing is they make it obsolate whenever a new expansion comes out, so it has a fixed amount of content to play in any given time.

It's not obsolete. At level 60 the vanilla gear is still useful for the vanilla content, for example. Yeah, gearing up on TBC greens is still better than the vanilla gear. But how do you propose adding new content without making the older content useless? It's not possible.

Lvl 60 purple gear is replaced by lvl 61 green gear... sounds obsolete to me.

The lvl 60 purple is still useful if your doing vanilla content. But my question was, how can you add content without the old becoming obsolete?

The point is that lvl 51 greens do not obsolete lvl 50 purples... Yet when the put on an expansion, BAM one level destroys it all.

As for adding content without old becoming obsolete.... there's room for thousands of new low-level quests and areas... these could all be added without obsoleting anything, simply providing more options for areas and situations to experience.

So your basicly saying, remove all character progression? Gear wouldn't matter anymore. The only thing that would matter in a boss encounter, for instance would be if you know the tactics to defeat the boss.

Character progression is pretty key in WoW, so I don't see that happening.

I lol'd :)

Good for you. I think you guys are just trying to make WoW into something it's not. It is pretty clear what WoW is all about. You can bitch all you want it's not going to change anything. So good luck finding your super-duper MMO. My guess is there is no pleasing you anyway.

You're right, we're trying to make WoW into a dynamic, growing game worth playing... something it isn't, and probably never will be.

Originally posted by Li-Su

Originally posted by SwampRob

I had 7 70s and then gave up when I saw that WOTLK wasn't offering me anything I wanted.   I loved Wow for a time, and as a soloer I loved that you could solo to the top level.   And then Wow is simply Raid or give up.   Bah.   If Wow ever offers me a non-grouping method to obtain the gear I want (even if it's a long and lengthy process), I'll consider rejoining.

Ah this reminds me of why I start playing WoW.

WoW is a game in which there is really a whole game for soloist, during the launch days.  A soloist got a lot of things to do, and is equally entertained, as are the groupists.  That was in great contrast to EQ, in which you can only solo something 20 levels lower than you, and if you do not have the ability to snare it, it will come back with friends.  Yes I can kite, but its not fun kiting every mob for 10 minutes.

However, once you hit the cap, soloing options are largely gone from WoW.

Why waste 15/month to play by yourself? There are many many better single player games that are better single player games than MMOS. Install an in game chat program and play a single player game, you can still chat with people.

Wow is the best Mmorpg! Ever! Why? Because all other companies that could ever compete with bliz are to lazy to make good competion. I've played many other mmorpgs and they just don't seem to take the time to be competitive... I'm hoping Bethesda get's it together and makes an Oblivion or even a Fallout3 mmorpg. But they seem to want to contract it out however.. to other deadbeat companies and wind up in legal issues. They should just take the bull by the horns and do it themselves.

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by Zoulz

There is no MMO with more content than WoW has. Please tell me if you find a MMO that has added more content over it's lifetime than WoW. Still people complain. I don't get it.

WoW has an awful lot of content, alright. The sad thing is they make it obsolate whenever a new expansion comes out, so it has a fixed amount of content to play in any given time.

It's not obsolete. At level 60 the vanilla gear is still useful for the vanilla content, for example. Yeah, gearing up on TBC greens is still better than the vanilla gear. But how do you propose adding new content without making the older content useless? It's not possible.

Lvl 60 purple gear is replaced by lvl 61 green gear... sounds obsolete to me.

The lvl 60 purple is still useful if your doing vanilla content. But my question was, how can you add content without the old becoming obsolete?

The point is that lvl 51 greens do not obsolete lvl 50 purples... Yet when the put on an expansion, BAM one level destroys it all.

As for adding content without old becoming obsolete.... there's room for thousands of new low-level quests and areas... these could all be added without obsoleting anything, simply providing more options for areas and situations to experience.

So your basicly saying, remove all character progression? Gear wouldn't matter anymore. The only thing that would matter in a boss encounter, for instance would be if you know the tactics to defeat the boss.

Character progression is pretty key in WoW, so I don't see that happening.

I lol'd :)

Good for you. I think you guys are just trying to make WoW into something it's not. It is pretty clear what WoW is all about. You can bitch all you want it's not going to change anything. So good luck finding your super-duper MMO. My guess is there is no pleasing you anyway.

You're right, we're trying to make WoW into a dynamic, growing game worth playing... something it isn't, and probably never will be.

Is there any game that's like this now?   Has there been any game that's been a 'dynamic, growing game' in a 6 year streach?

WoW does have a problem with making gear obsolete, but it's not from expansion to expansion.  It's from patch to patch, which is worse.  By doing it this way, they make gear (and instances) obsolete within the expansion.  For example, Uldudar is obsolete now (as far as end game gear is involved) and that was launched within the WolTK expansion.

Originally posted by tanoril

WoW does have a problem with making gear obsolete, but it's not from expansion to expansion.  It's from patch to patch, which is worse.  By doing it this way, they make gear (and instances) obsolete within the expansion.  For example, Uldudar is obsolete now (as far as end game gear is involved) and that was launched within the WolTK expansion.

The problem WoW has is that they have not made gear obsolete enough yet.  When Burning Crusade did its major gear reset, it was a wake-up call.  Farming raid instances for gear was bunk and it is unfortunate that so many players are still so gear obsessed in the game when gear means less and less.  The game is becoming more and more about the player and less about the gear.  However, it still has a lot to go before the Gear Myth is finally put to rest.

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by tanoril

WoW does have a problem with making gear obsolete, but it's not from expansion to expansion.  It's from patch to patch, which is worse.  By doing it this way, they make gear (and instances) obsolete within the expansion.  For example, Uldudar is obsolete now (as far as end game gear is involved) and that was launched within the WolTK expansion.

The problem WoW has is that they have not made gear obsolete enough yet.  When Burning Crusade did its major gear reset, it was a wake-up call.  Farming raid instances for gear was bunk and it is unfortunate that so many players are still so gear obsessed in the game when gear means less and less.  The game is becoming more and more about the player and less about the gear.  However, it still has a lot to go before the Gear Myth is finally put to rest.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about how gear in WoW works.  Having "Good Gear" never is an obsolete goal, but what constitute good gear does change.  Ulduar gear isn't good anymore, for instance.  There's no "Gear Myth" and if you don't have the minimum gear necessary to do a raid, then you can't do it.  There's a bit more leeway with DPS, but all roles need minimum gear levels for all content, with the latest content having the most strict requirements and content being faster and easier with better gear.  Skill counts, of course, but the minimum gear level is if you are superemly skilled, and you still do better with better gear.

WoW is extremely gear-based and nothing is changing that, nor do the Devs have any plans of changing that.