Trending Games | Guild Wars 2 | ArcheAge | World of Warcraft | WildStar

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,905,530 Users Online:0
Games:757  Posts:6,294,995
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Anyone else not going to be satisfied with MMOs until "skill" is added into the gameplay?

12 Pages First « 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 » Last Search
222 posts found
  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3469

6/23/10 5:33:48 AM#121

Define "SKILL" in a mmo..   That needs to be done first.. Until you do, everyone will dance around to the beat of a different drummer..  To some, skill is "twitch" hand / eye coordination ability.  To others mental awareness and logic is better.. A perfect example is a typical boss raid in most games.. I have seen players with excellent  twitch control, but had NO clue in logically beating the boss fight..  In most raids you need a variety of skill sets to be successful..

Just like in football.. I've seen quarterbacks with strong accurate arms that could throw a football thru an open window of a speeding car at 40 yards..... BUT couldn't read a blitz package if their life counted on it...... and vice versa..  Just look at Bernie Kosar.. One of the ugliest looking quaterback styles ever in the pros.. BUT, his mental awareness made up for any flaws in his style.. lol

So..... skill is subjective and there are different variables to take into consideration.. :)

  thorwood

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/07
Posts: 485

6/23/10 5:52:01 AM#122

I disagree that "twitch combat" is the only measure of skill.  Also, for most current MMO's twitch combat skill is often no more than low ping advantage.

Everquest required a lot of skill.  You had to know your class, your role in a group, monster resists, and time your actions to take into account internet latency.  Players developed all sorts of tactics such as fear kiting, hate kiting, charming, root and DoT, tactics for pulling single mobs from a group of mobs, minstrel interleaving (twisting) of songs in addition to the usual tank, slow and heal group work.  Everquest started in the age of dial up connections, so twitch combat was never going to work.

While servers are distant from players, I have doubts as to whether twitch combat will ever work well in MMO's due to internet connection latencies being thousands of times slower than what can be achieved on a stand alone PC.  Are we just setting ourselves up for disappointment with expectations that are unreasonable?

In recognition of internet latencies, some twitch games coming out are saying that players need to live within 1,000 miles of the server. 

Other  twitch games are taking a different approach.  The game company's server is just a lobby where players can meet other players who live relatively close to each other.  Once the players meet up the game runs on their computers and does not run on the remotely located game company's server.

  Emoqqboy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/28/10
Posts: 187

6/23/10 5:58:05 AM#123

Just sharing a thought. I feel MMOs have to be careful as well where "skill" is involved. If too much emphasis is applied to this area, you are gonna see alot of players going into the game THINKING they are skilled but eventually finding out they are not so "skill-ed" afterall and may cause alot of negative feelings towards such a game. Lets face it, in reality, majority of general players think they themselves are "skill-ed", "skill-based" gameplay may have to make sufficient players wake up and smell the flowers, to an extent a large number will be unhappy at realising the contrary truth to the matter.

<QQ moar plz. kkthxbai.>

  JaggaSpikes

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 408

6/23/10 6:16:23 AM#124

what is "skill"? does being good in tenis mean having "skill"? does being good in chess mean having "skill"? does being good in tenis mean being good in chess?

"skill" is not general set of abilities. it's specific set of abilities in regard to certain activity.

as for MMO, there is plenty of them where people of similar "level" and similar gear regulary win or lose, based on player's skill. want to talk WoW? people in blues or worst doing top-tier encounters, while others can't do it even when decked in purples and having a bonus, guides, and 10 levels of advantage. people in grays melting other people's faces.

one of the issues i have seen frequently: people with good skill can't recognize it. they think game (or anything else) is easy because they have easy time. they call anyone that can't compete at their level a retard. i have a very good friend that is like that. he's a good person, but he just doesn't want to accept that he is more talented than most people.

also, note that all games have two functions: entertainment and challenge. some people just like to throw ball with friends. it makes them happy. other people want to see how far they can throw the ball. it makes them happy. find a game that makes YOU happy. and if you can't find it: make it.

not every game and every gamer go hand in hand. there is no perfect game. there is no perfect gamer.

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

6/23/10 7:21:53 AM#125
Originally posted by Rydeson

Define "SKILL" in a mmo..   That needs to be done first.. Until you do, everyone will dance around to the beat of a different drummer..  To some, skill is "twitch" hand / eye coordination ability.  To others mental awareness and logic is better.. A perfect example is a typical boss raid in most games.. I have seen players with excellent  twitch control, but had NO clue in logically beating the boss fight..  In most raids you need a variety of skill sets to be successful..

Just like in football.. I've seen quarterbacks with strong accurate arms that could throw a football thru an open window of a speeding car at 40 yards..... BUT couldn't read a blitz package if their life counted on it...... and vice versa..  Just look at Bernie Kosar.. One of the ugliest looking quaterback styles ever in the pros.. BUT, his mental awareness made up for any flaws in his style.. lol

So..... skill is subjective and there are different variables to take into consideration.. :)

 

EXACTLY! 

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  Ambrosius

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/08/04
Posts: 75

6/23/10 7:56:16 AM#126
Originally posted by BioNut

This is really the crux of my issue with MMOs. They require absolutely no skill at all. I mean, there isnt a single open world MMO thats PvP or PvE  doesn't boil down to who has better gear, higher levels, better traits, etc.

 I play Jumpgate, which is an MMO that's all about twitch and skill in PvP.  How you fly your ship, how well you aim and how well you work as a team all determine battle outcomes.  Jumpgate is NOT an RPG in any way though -- more like a space sim with elements of FPS.  And while Jumpgate is technically a MMO ... it's a bit "lacking" in the "massively" component over the last few years.  But Netdevil has just dedicated some dev resource back to the game, so hopefully things will pick up.

-- Ambros.

  redOrc

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/08
Posts: 102

6/23/10 8:14:56 AM#127

Guild Wars PVP is based on "skill".

You can open max level PVP character on day 1 and play with it. Gear is of almost no importance. Anyways you can "open" all gear options (for PVP) within several days of game play.

Each guild in the game gets "rating", which matchs it's skill to the other guilds. When you enter a Guild-Vs-Guild game, an automated selector will select a guild matching your skill. Winning a match will improve your rating and loosing will decrease it. So very fast you will find yourself playing your rating guilds.

The game is a little low now, since everybody are waitng for GW2. I hope it will be the same in that respect.

  

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1358

6/23/10 8:18:44 AM#128

IMO the MMO's that require skill are the ones with a more FPS approach to attacking.

  sadeyx

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/06
Posts: 1570

6/23/10 8:26:39 AM#129

Plenty of skill required in APB :P

  orangerascal

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 52

6/23/10 8:28:28 AM#130
Originally posted by Rabenwolf

I cannot see Starcraft falling into that category since it isnt twitch based. It does require user input, and it is real time, but it features many different challenges found in the traditional MMO.

 

Starcraft is about as 'twitchy' as they come. It's not a coincidence that the best players in the world have APM's that hit 400+. (That's actions per minute for those not in the know). You know what 400 APM's are, its 6-7 mouseclicks/keystrokes per second. SC pro's go through a regiment that trains their eye-to-hand coordination to move that quickly. In korea you can hire coaches that improve this aspect of gameplay and these coaches are highly sought after.

Most newbies think starcraft is just a strategy game. It's not. Yes, there are stategic elements to starcraft like using the best units to counter your oppoenents units, but even the worst counter units can stand a chance if your micro-management is very good. Also starcraft's strategy is very limited as everyone has a pretty good idea of the best units to counter other units. Thus the game ends with whomever is the better twitch player.

-------------------------------

As for 'skills',  'skills' come in a variety of packages including

- group synergy

- situation awareness

- game knowledge

- twitch reflexes

- command experience

 

Look at any professional team like spain's football team. Each player including coaches will have great expertise in one or more of the following aforementioned attributes.

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1358

6/23/10 8:32:49 AM#131
Originally posted by orangerascal
Originally posted by Rabenwolf

I cannot see Starcraft falling into that category since it isnt twitch based. It does require user input, and it is real time, but it features many different challenges found in the traditional MMO.

 

Starcraft is about as 'twitchy' as they come. It's not a coincidence that the best players in the world have APM's that hit 400+. (That's actions per minute for those not in the know). You know what 400 APM's are, its 6-7 mouseclicks/keystrokes per second. SC pro's go through a regiment that trains their eye-to-hand coordination to move that quickly. In korea you can hire coaches that improve this aspect of gameplay and these coaches are highly sought after.

Most newbies think starcraft is just a strategy game. It's not. Yes, there are stategic elements to starcraft like using the best units to counter your oppoenents units, but even the worst counter units can stand a chance if your micro-management is very good. Also starcraft's strategy is very limited as everyone has a pretty good idea of the best units to counter other units. Thus the game ends with whomever is the better twitch player.

Used to download loads of pro starcraft replays and watch them with the APM counter on and think "Wow". The best in Korea get paid to play it so I think it justifies it :)

  aaradun

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 89

6/23/10 8:38:45 AM#132

I'll be honest i haven't read most of this thread, but a SKILL as you say based mmo will never truly happen. Sure there will be acouple out there but their market share will be so small then most dev will not bother doing them.

Why do i say that, well simply most people that play MMO are playign a game to have fun when skill start becoming a requirement to play said mmo people will try but 90% of the people will end up quitting after the first month simply because they don't cut it and it's not fun for them.

So a pure skill MMO like you say will probably never happen and if it does it will not really be successfull simply for the fact that they won't be able to draw out enough people to make them viable.

  sadeyx

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/06
Posts: 1570

6/23/10 8:41:59 AM#133
Originally posted by orangerascal Thus the game ends with whomever is the better twitch player.

Quoted for Truth.

 

Maps in all RTS games have a very limited 2 or 3 rstrategies, if you deviate from these then you'll just get crushed.   Once you know them its simply about micro managment, which, as pointed out is just how fast you can twitch.

I know these games are popular, but they are incredibly boring, if your doing 400 APM then it wont even be about your twitching, it will be about latency.  Desipite fast internet speeds latency is always going to be random and unreliable.   Not really a good envoiroment for determining "skill"

  RajCaj

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/08
Posts: 684

6/23/10 9:28:42 AM#134

I've been waiting since Ultima Online redesigned their itemization in Age of Shadows.

The problem, as many have stated, is that gear progression is a GREAT way for developers to lead players around through the "content" as they see fit.  It's just easier from a development standpoint to be proactive about the content if they know in advance that everyone will be doing "this" to upgrade their gear.

And of course you get all the problems with a gear progression based MMO, like STATS > SKILL, extrinsic reward system gets players doing things they don't neccessarily enjoy doing, etc.

 

The key to creating a MMO that is primarily skill based is that the item system has to be relatively common or craftable.  There were magic weapons and armor in UO but it typically something used to give you an "edge" and not a rediculous advantage. 

The other key componet is that the combat system has to be relatively simple and/or uniform.  Ultima had only 2 main base classes....Mages & Warriors.  There were slight variations of the two that allowed for some tactical diversity.....but on the whole it was an even playing field with a very unique casting system that made Mage Dueling one of the first E-Sports.

 

In a day where MMOs are trying to seperate themselves from the rest of the pack by offering MORE stats and MORE classes.....its highly unlikely that any game devloper will be able to fully balance all class types with eachother.  Instead they adopt a Flavor Of The Month system that continueously changes all the classes so that each get their 15 min in the sun of domination over the rest.

 

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7768

Logic be damned!

6/23/10 9:35:24 AM#135

Gaming is hard!

All that thumb and wrist workout... serious business. 

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  RajCaj

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/08
Posts: 684

6/23/10 10:40:24 AM#136
Originally posted by heerobya

Gaming is hard!

All that thumb and wrist workout... serious business. 

 I love the "relax, its a video game" card. hahaha

 

Once upon a time, MMORPGs were a game genere that offered a more in depth and "mature" playing experience than what you could get out of consoles.

 

The mainstreaming of MMORPGs by games like WOW might have set a lower set of expectations for many new comers to the MMO market....but some of us are still looking for a game that reminds us of why we migrated away from consoles (and other more casual game types) to MMORPGs.

  garrett

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 6/30/09
Posts: 241

6/23/10 10:42:59 AM#137

TERA definitely has skill factored into all of its game play.

  karat76

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/06
Posts: 1011

Greatest threat to society is letting casualties of puberty reproduce.

6/23/10 11:00:35 AM#138

I don't like the ideal of a mmofps would be a good fit for me. I loathe fps almost as much as I hate pvp.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7768

Logic be damned!

6/23/10 11:04:11 AM#139
Originally posted by RajCaj
Originally posted by heerobya

Gaming is hard!

All that thumb and wrist workout... serious business. 

 I love the "relax, its a video game" card. hahaha

Once upon a time, MMORPGs were a game genere that offered a more in depth and "mature" playing experience than what you could get out of consoles.

World of Warcraft is infinitely more complex and in depth then Ultima Onilne.

Trust me, I was there 10+ years ago. 

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

6/23/10 11:08:07 AM#140

Skill is relative. And is also defined differently by different people for different gameplay features. I'm satisfied playing games that my wife and son are able to play with me for the most part. I don't necessarily have to be the best at anything to enjoy it. If you want real skill-based games, you should play the multiplayer shooters that were released from 1990-2004. Though again, that is just my definition of skill. I'm sure many would argue.

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

12 Pages First « 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 » Last Search