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News & Features Discussion  » General: It Is What It Is

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94 posts found
  Lawlmonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 914

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

6/16/10 5:38:30 PM#21

I think it's fair for people to be concerned about getting ripped off, Richard. People can continue to say, "they're as free as you want them to be", but the fact is this: content is locked and divied up for sales in such a manner that encourages for, or in some cases punishes you for not, buying it. It's a great way for small companies to charge premium costs for a sub-standard product. Sure, there are examples that prove otherwise, and this is a generalization of the F2P experience I've personally encountered, but the whole design principle for F2P was devised to convince players to pay for something sub-par, or inadequate. That's the reason so many F2P games are related back to poorly made, asian grinders, and not DDO, or in some cases, the upcoming LotRO pay model rehash.

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  User Deleted
6/16/10 6:07:42 PM#22

Hey! Aioshi's back!

It seems people speaking critically of "his precious" finally got Aioshi to drop the "aloof and unaffected" facade he's had up. . It's fine.. We knew the real him was lurking in there somewhere. He's back in full-on pro-F2P Hyper-Nerd mode.

You know... It's perfectly understandable to have a column that covers the F2P market. Regardless of what side of the debate you land on, it's a part of the MMO scene and it's here to stay. It is worth keeping up with and knowing about what's going on. There's no denying that.

That said... the task should really be taken on by someone more qualified to do so and, dare I say, more professional.

Yet again, Aioshi completely ignores the numerous relevant and accurate arguments given against F2P on these threads - which he clearly reads, though he dare not condescend to engage in the discourse...oh no no. He might have to answer direct challenges to the BS he regularly spews out; something he's clearly averse to doing.

Well since you apparently do read the posts... You're right Aioshi... It is what it is - and many of us on these forums - myself included - have experienced it first-hand. We've played the games. Checked out the cash shops. I personally spent some money in a few of them to see how it works and feel it out. We see through the marketing and PR and aren't dazzled by the word "Free!" - no matter how many times it's repeated. We are all too aware of how F2P games are designed to get more - potentially far more - out of a given player than a subscription model ever would.... without actually increasing the value of what they're paying for. Anyone who can look at something critically, do some hands-on research and not simply buy into marketing spin can figure it out for themselves. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

Your own "knee-jerk" response to valid criticisms notwithstanding, the fact is, many arguments given against F2P are more spot-on than you apparently want to admit. Hence your continued refusal to even acknowledge, much less address them - not to mention the nerd rage that inevitably comes out over it in articles like this one.

Suffice to say... You're clearly so personally affected by criticism of the genre you love so much that you wasted an entire weekly article ranting about it instead of using the space to write something... oh I don't know... informative. Congrats. You're a true class act.

To the MMORPG.com staff... Is Aioshi *seriously* the best you could find to cover the topic? Seriously? In all the MMO scene, there's no one better you can find to cover the topic than this guy? Hell, a non-fan of F2P could do a better job of discussing it on its own merits than this glorified forum poster could ever dream of.

  Codenak

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/08
Posts: 418

6/16/10 6:10:10 PM#23

I think the art of irony is lost on some people, or they just don't expect it :)

I suspect Malcanis actually likes the Eve hybrid as it incentives CCP to produce a better game rather than more cash store items, I could be wrong though, i have been before :D

F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html

  Inktomi

Highlighted Blogger

Joined: 3/25/09
Posts: 661

Give me sparkly, twinkly...

6/16/10 7:30:53 PM#24

...and it ain't what it aint. 

 

One of my favorite sayings Richard. 

 

I am starting to understand your vision as I descend further down the rabbithole of video game economics.

 

RMT is inevitable, but it isn't horrible if its done right and players can show self control.

 

Embrace the future.

 

Play safe,

 

Ink

  qombi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 1187

6/16/10 8:25:26 PM#25

Richard is a puppet for the industry that is all. After, all he has to eat. If they paid me to  cram this scam "F2P" down people's throats untll they accepted it, I may too.

There is nothing free about these "F2P" games. They should stop calling them that. They always will end up costing the customer more than P2P .. why in the hell do you think they are migrate to this model and paying people like Richard to be the spokes person for it.

Yeah, Richard may say he isn't a puppet for the industry but I believe other wise. No customer in their right mind would push for a system to pay more and get less.

  markt50

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/06
Posts: 131

6/16/10 9:12:23 PM#26

What a hate filled article, borderline rude in tone, insulting to sections of the MMORPG community and practically overflowing with a horrible sense of smugness. I expect it on the forums, but expected better from the Columnists.

So the article seemed to basically be saying that anyone who is against F2P is a retard and Richard failed to even provide balance in his article by maybe mentioning some of the valid objections some people may have with the F2P model and LOTRO's move to it. Ohhh but silly me, anyone who dares say anything negative about F2P must be a hysterical, tin foil hat wearing loony. Sorry, my bad.

Probably to worst article I've read in the many years I've been reading this site.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2505

6/16/10 9:51:01 PM#27
Originally posted by markt50

What a hate filled article, borderline rude in tone, insulting to sections of the MMORPG community and practically overflowing with a horrible sense of smugness. I expect it on the forums, but expected better from the Columnists.

So the article seemed to basically be saying that anyone who is against F2P is a retard and Richard failed to even provide balance in his article by maybe mentioning some of the valid objections some people may have with the F2P model and LOTRO's move to it. Ohhh but silly me, anyone who dares say anything negative about F2P must be a hysterical, tin foil hat wearing loony. Sorry, my bad.

Probably to worst article I've read in the many years I've been reading this site.

 Wow, some of you people are way too overly sensitive. Read the article, didn't find one thing rude or offensive or insulting, but then again maybe thats cause im not, as the blonde chick in Scrubs put it... a tiny girl bitch.

He didn't really claim anything close to anti-F2Pers being retarded, people do have some valid points, howeve rthe great majority of peoples anti-F2P arguments are simply ignorant and outdated. By reading many of their arguments its clear that some of them have never even played an F2P game and are basing their arguments solely on misinformation given to them by other people out of hatred for something they don't like. On top of that, many of the arguments are also based on what the F2P genre was several years ago, not the current state of the genre.

Unfortunately for you, there have been very very few valid points made by the anti-F2P crowd that are even worth pointing out in his article, so there's no need to go over them in detail when they can be summed up in a blanket statement, and actually in way fewer words than he did it. In fact, i can some up the majority of the anti-F2P arguments in 1 simple word... WRONG

  eyeswideopen

Tipster

Joined: 5/24/09
Posts: 2503

6/16/10 10:13:12 PM#28
Originally posted by MikeB

Free to play columnist Richard Aihoshi wonders at some people's unwillingness to accept LOTRO's announced change of business models.

Richard Aihoshi

After the announcement 10 days ago that The Lord of the Rings Online will become free to play this fall, it took almost no time at all for the silly reactions to begin.  Considering the hate-on some people have for anything and everything F2P, it was no surprise they didn't like the news.  But it was almost comical to see some of the spin doctoring they engaged in to try to soften or negate the impact on their tender psyches instead of simply admitting what's happening with the game and in the MMOG market. 

For example, one point of view was put forward stating this isn't an important development because LOTRO doesn't qualify as a major subscription title since it only has a single-digit share of that market.  The problem is that if we apply this particular criterion, practically every single release aside from World of Warcraft could adopt F2P, and not one of the conversions would be significant.

Read It Is What It Is.

Quote: "In a similar vein, some have contended that the best available estimates of LOTRO's subscriber base, 250,000 to 300,000, are inflated.  It's possible they are.  However, better numbers aren't available, and it does seem kind of presumptuous to make the wishful assumption that the actual figure is substantially smaller based on no facts, at least not in anything I've read. "

You don't think the numbers are inflated, when the CEO's of both Turbine and Warner Brothers stated LotRO is 8th in the NA market, when they've done nothing before to curb the "speculation" put forth by fanbois even on their own forums that LotRO was  "one of  the top 3 mmos" to try to prove how "successful" it was when rational people dared to be realistic?

And then you go on to admit you don't care what the truth of the matter is, if someone slaps "F2P" on their marketing spin, then it's F2P as far as you're concerned. Don't ever try to come here with one of those "I'm on the gamers side" speeches, because you'll be laughed of the site.

And you like to think this F2P thing is just the next best thing to happen to gaming, Aihoshi? I presume you are old enough to remember how mmos started out? Pay by the minute, costing people hundreds of dollars a month being a regular occurance? And I suppose you remember why that was completely killed off ( except in asia apparently ) by the monthly sub? There is nothing new under the sun, man. This is just suits trying to regurgitate a system that was already  shown to be inferior and cast aside years ago. The trouble is, they are hoping the younger players don't know their history.

Do us all a favor Aihoshi, and stick to just writing "facts" about games themselves, and stay out of the "personal agenda" realm, because you fail at it.

-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  Morgaren

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/09
Posts: 388

For me, the gates will open.

6/16/10 10:19:00 PM#29

Wow Richard, feel sorry for you, try to do a F2P column, and the biggest news you see in a while falls out of the sky, you do more than one article on it, and as soon as you respond to what you see being talked about, your bashed like this.

I don't particulary like your writing style, you tend to use alot more statistics than I care to absorb, but you don't deserve what these people are saying. Its not low to talk about whats being said, unless people are ashamed of what they are saying, in which case they should not open their mouths, and as for this sounding like a forum post, no, its really not, its an article. Now if some of these people want to write something that everyone will read once a week, they can apply for a columnist job. besides, I don't know if your at E3, but if you are, I doubt you really care to take alot of time on your column this week.

I wouldn't either. And neither would any of these haters if they were in your shoes.

  User Deleted
6/16/10 10:20:03 PM#30

Richard, 

Thanks for saying that I've been thinking for quite some time now.

However, don't expect a warm welcome from this crowd. You'll hear the same criticisms regurgitated in every post here. Bandwagon-ing at its finest. What do you expect from people who haven't had an original thought in, well, since birth?

  RedRaptor22

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/10
Posts: 44

6/16/10 10:57:51 PM#31

I had litterally started downloading the trial about a half hour before I read about the switch to free to play, as soon as I read it I stopped the download.

After playing DDO for a week I have no interest in another turbine "free to play untill you want content and max level"

After looking at the screenshots of the market windows everyone can see that they did the same thing with LOTRO and put the interesting parts of the gamein the market place along with lots of stuff to make sure the bankrollers can litterally buy a better toon than the rest of the population.

Thats the case with most f2p mmos no matter how ignorant one may be they can't in good faith deny that someone with a fat wallet has a huge advantage, not even the ignoramous that created this column or the two posters above me.

 

 

Of course it is a choice as to whether or not one actually spends money in the game, but when you start offering content and advantages your just baiting people, not unlike 0% interest loans or cell phone plans, $30 a month but once you get done paying for features that should be standard  you end up with a $140 bill and are upset because you could have a bundle that would have only cost you $50.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2505

6/16/10 11:03:50 PM#32
Originally posted by RedRaptor22

I had litterally started downloading the trial about a half hour before I read about the switch to free to play, as soon as I read it I stopped the download.

After playing DDO for a week I have no interest in another turbine "free to play untill you want content and max level"

After looking at the screenshots of the market windows everyone can see that they did the same thing with LOTRO and put the interesting parts of the gamein the market place along with lots of stuff to make sure the bankrollers can litterally buy a better toon than the rest of the population.

Thats the case with most f2p mmos no matter how ignorant one may be they can't in good faith deny that someone with a fat wallet has a huge advantage, not even the ignoramous that created this column or the two posters above me.

 

 

Of course it is a choice as to whether or not one actually spends money in the game, but when you start offering content and advantages your just baiting people, not unlike 0% interest loans or cell phone plans, $30 a month but once you get done paying for features that should be standard  you end up with a $140 bill and are upset because you could have a bundle that would have only cost you $50.

 Cool story, problem is everything you said about DDO and LOTRO is wrong. Yes you CAN pay $ to unlock the stuff, but you can also unlock it 100% free by investing a bit of time in earning Favor points. Its up to you, time, money, or a combination of both, but nothing forces you to pay for content or levels or anything else.

Stop crying something isnt F2P  just because you cant get a full game + max level & uber gear instantly 100% free. Youre going to need to either work for it in game, or out of game for the $ (or at least pray your parents do if your etoo young).

  Khalathwyr

Tipster

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3147

Google is your friend.

6/17/10 12:15:32 AM#33
Originally posted by Burntvet

How can someone report a columnist for trolling? :)

You can't. And this guy submits this type of "column" every other week or so. Apparently there really is nothing going on in the F2P space news worthy so he just submits a troll/rant at people voicing their opinions that differ from his. Only he's allowed to take shots and make innuendos about those people's perceived lack of intelligence. Stuff we'd get a warning or ban for.

This site is supposed to be for us. If that's true, then there should be some kinda of voting system for the columns written. If a particular columnist scores below a certain level they rotate him/her out. I never had anything against this guy (didn't even know he shared the same planet with me until he started writing for here) and don't care if people enjoy F2P games. Doesn't affect me. But when someone starts taking verbal shots at me just because I don't agree with their point of view and I can't respond in kind, yeah, that's a problem.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  GameFarmer

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/10
Posts: 20

New account. Get over it. You mean nothing outside your online fantasy and the internet.

6/17/10 1:07:07 AM#34

I had something else to say, but after reading the comments posted to this article,All I'll say is, if someone says something and you lash out all butt hurt over it, its obviously true what they said.

Or you can look at it like this;

these comments vs his article, his article speaks for itself.

  dirtyjoe78

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 407

6/17/10 1:22:08 AM#35
Originally posted by Khalathwyr
Originally posted by Burntvet

How can someone report a columnist for trolling? :)

You can't. And this guy submits this type of "column" every other week or so. Apparently there really is nothing going on in the F2P space news worthy so he just submits a troll/rant at people voicing their opinions that differ from his. Only he's allowed to take shots and make innuendos about those people's perceived lack of intelligence. Stuff we'd get a warning or ban for.

This site is supposed to be for us. If that's true, then there should be some kinda of voting system for the columns written. If a particular columnist scores below a certain level they rotate him/her out. I never had anything against this guy (didn't even know he shared the same planet with me until he started writing for here) and don't care if people enjoy F2P games. Doesn't affect me. But when someone starts taking verbal shots at me just because I don't agree with their point of view and I can't respond in kind, yeah, that's a problem.

 This ^^ The few points that Richard tried to make were lost in the condescending attitude of the article.  I find it highly unprofessional that in the last few weeks we have seen staff of this site lashing out and verbally attacking the forum posters here.  While i do not post a lot i do read a lot and i have never had anything against any of the writers here most of the articles are pretty decent or at least provoke some discussion...however uncivil it may be.  People are entitled to their opinions wether you like F2P hate it or could care less about it.  I find this article lacking in tact or any information to provoke valid discussion.

  Yoottos'Horg

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/15/04
Posts: 262

6/17/10 1:48:36 AM#36
Originally posted by eyeswideopen
 

And then you go on to admit you don't care what the truth of the matter is, if someone slaps "F2P" on their marketing spin, then it's F2P as far as you're concerned.

I really don't care for  Mr. Aihoshi's articles...like...at all, but the above point he made in this latest article really made no sense. It reminds me of the scene from Tommy Boy:

 

Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee [F2P] on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.
Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee [F2P] on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee [F2P] Fairy might come by and leave a quarter [item shop], am I right, Ted?
[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing]
Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer [money grubber]? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house [wallet] once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.
Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit [F2P game that they simply said was F2P and naming something as such does not necessarily make it so]. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed [F2P], I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.

 

It's not the best one-for-one example but the point I'm trying to make, Mr. Aihoshi, is this. Just because someone says something does not make it so. Non Sequitur argument my little-F2P-fanboi-friend of mine.

If you got nothing else out of this thread at least you got to see attractive women in bikinis.

  Yoottos'Horg

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/15/04
Posts: 262

6/17/10 1:55:32 AM#37
Originally posted by GameFarmer

I had something else to say, but after reading the comments posted to this article,All I'll say is, if someone says something and you lash out all butt hurt over it, its obviously true what they said.

Or you can look at it like this;

these comments vs his article, his article speaks for itself.

 

REALLY?! I mean do you seriously believe this? So if someone says Gandhi is a bigot and he isn't, but I get all “butt hurt” over it and lash out then it clearly means that he is a bigot?
 
[Mod Edit]

If you got nothing else out of this thread at least you got to see attractive women in bikinis.

  eyeswideopen

Tipster

Joined: 5/24/09
Posts: 2503

6/17/10 2:35:12 AM#38
Originally posted by Yoottos'Horg
Originally posted by GameFarmer

I had something else to say, but after reading the comments posted to this article,All I'll say is, if someone says something and you lash out all butt hurt over it, its obviously true what they said.

Or you can look at it like this;

these comments vs his article, his article speaks for itself.

 

REALLY?! I mean do you seriously believe this? So if someone says Gandhi is a bigot and he isn't, but I get all “butt hurt” over it and lash out then it clearly means that he is a bigot?
 
Where the &$%@ do you people come from with this crap?

Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing.

In your scenario, it would be Ghandi who would either get butt hurt or not. Of course, knowing that he was not a bigot and the accusation was false, Ghandi would not get butt hurt or even dignify the accusation with a response. Whether you got butt hurt or not would be irrelevent to the equation, as you were not the one accused in the first place.

So as it stands, if Mr. Aihoshi knew the accusations against his beloved F2P scheme were false, he would not make an article to attack those claiming otherwise, he would simply move on and write about some other aspect, as the F2P would make it's own case to prove the naysayers wrong.

Aihoshi could learn from another old saying: Methinks thou dost protest too much.

-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  Yoottos'Horg

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/15/04
Posts: 262

6/17/10 2:48:58 AM#39
Originally posted by eyeswideopen
Originally posted by Yoottos'Horg
Originally posted by GameFarmer

I had something else to say, but after reading the comments posted to this article,All I'll say is, if someone says something and you lash out all butt hurt over it, its obviously true what they said.

Or you can look at it like this;

these comments vs his article, his article speaks for itself.

 

REALLY?! I mean do you seriously believe this? So if someone says Gandhi is a bigot and he isn't, but I get all “butt hurt” over it and lash out then it clearly means that he is a bigot?
 
Where the &$%@ do you people come from with this crap?

Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing.

In your scenario, it would be Ghandi who would either get butt hurt or not. Of course, knowing that he was not a bigot and the accusation was false, Ghandi would not get butt hurt or even dignify the accusation with a response. Whether you got butt hurt or not would be irrelevent to the equation, as you were not the one accused in the first place.

So as it stands, if Mr. Aihoshi knew the accusations against his beloved F2P scheme were false, he would not make an article to attack those claiming otherwise, he would simply move on and write about some other aspect, as the F2P would make it's own case to prove the naysayers wrong.

Aihoshi could learn from another old saying: Methinks thou dost protest too much.

 Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing, I completely agree. Therefore I highlighted the yellow text to point out that the person referred to "something" being said. They did not specify that it was said to someone or about someone (I, however, chose to use a person as an example) they just said that something was said. Therefore, if someone happened to hear this utterance and get "butt hurt," then the utterance must have been correct.

If you believe something is false then why wouldn't you defend it? Although I dislike Mr. Aihoshi I will at least defend the intent of his article: Silence is consent.

If you got nothing else out of this thread at least you got to see attractive women in bikinis.

  eyeswideopen

Tipster

Joined: 5/24/09
Posts: 2503

6/17/10 3:24:45 AM#40
Originally posted by Yoottos'Horg

If you believe something is false then why wouldn't you defend it? Although I dislike Mr. Aihoshi I will at least defend the intent of his article: Silence is consent.

Why should you have to defend the intent of HIS article? As you say, apparently silence is consent. So since he is silent, I'd say that means he's consenting to what the rest of us are saying then according to your veiwpoint, correct?

If the man has the balls to submit his article, he should have the balls to stand up for it, right? Unless I am totally missing your point somehow.

-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-

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