Originally posted by Cephus404

 

We grew up and a lot of vets are actually enjoying MMOs today.

So they perfected a pill to bring ones IQ level down low enough to enjoy these games? I mean I don’t want any permanent IQ loss, only temporal so I can actually enjoy your games for short periods of time.

Originally posted by Ozivois

Originally posted by wykyd

I totally agree with the OP.  My expereinces have been in WoW, War, AoC, Lotro, EQ2; so I am unable to comment on others.

Strength of community has declined in recent years although the causes aren't clear to me.  Maybe it's soloable max-leveling, or maybe it's the endless grindfest for our own uber-gear.  Whatever the reason I remember when noobs were encouraged and mentored, while now they are derided and exploited (an over-generalization I know but a noticeable trend).

MMOs are not as "nice" as they once were.

 Blame the PvP element that is added to all the games now for the "nice" factor being removed.  Hard to be nice when the enviroment has been made more competitive than in the past.

 Sorry I had to, post number 2..

What? Are you joking? When did you start playing games? yesterday? Apparently... Good thing you didn't play 13 years ago or you would have quit after the first day.

Please, if you don't know what you're taling about, please don't post.

Sheeeshh

Originally posted by Cephus404

No, it's not over for most MMO vets, it's only over for those MMO vets who refuse to move on.  Most of us who started playing long, long ago no longer want the same thing out of games that we wanted back then, most of us have grown up, most of us no longer have the time or interest in sitting around in a time-wasting game, pretending it's somehow challenging.

We grew up and a lot of vets are actually enjoying MMOs today.

I'm not the same gamer now that I was when I first started in EQ1. I've grown and changed, and have adapted to the new market and to the way that games are now because hey, it's closer to who I am now anyway.

When I first started, I'd spend just as much time in Norrath as I did at work every day. Entire weekends would be sacrificed, too. That went on from EQ's launch until the Ykesha expansion. Since then, I've refused to let that kind of hardcore grind become a part of my life. I'll never go on a raid again. I'll never have the most epic armor, or the most money, or the greatest notoriety in any MMO that I'll play from now until I finally get tired of the genre. I'm okay with that.

I have other priorities now. My life isn't as singularly focused on games anymore as it was back in my 20's. I'd rather find a game that allows me to log in to an interesting world, play for a few hours at a time and show some progress, and have fun while I'm at it. All the rest  is just details, IMO.

Originally posted by Vistaakah

I took a last leap * bought Age of Conan* which is as good as any other MMO on the market* and am bored after 3 days. Log  in, kill computer generated AI rinse, repeat, and do the same thing over and over and over to what achieve max level, reroll and repeat the mind numbing format of modern day MMORPGS.

 

Step 1. Kill mobs

Step 2. Level

Step 3. Kill more mobs 

Step 4. Realize we've all been mindlessly doing it for HOW many years for me its over 12 years but no longer.

 

When i look back at how long i played some games. Most were worth only but a year max of interest but we played them back then for other reasons. Who cares about quests since they are all the same generally. Levels mean nothing and now there is no social element to MMO games like years gone by.

So we add up the wasted time and years realizing we could of been doing something different.with our lives with no regrets. We met many great friends in the process , fewer in modern day MMO's. We players are unnecessary to others in todays games. Getting the best gear is a simple achievement that means nothing in the end. Anybody can obtain it with time.

I honestly don't  think those seeking will ever find their once lost love but that is ok. Buy a Harley, take a trip with a friend. Live life? Regretfully the modern day MMO gamer will NEVER experience what we have over  the years. It was a great ride no questions there.

With that being said i'm as hard core of a computer gamer as can be but with no reservations can list myself as 

NOT looking for a game. Unplug its not so bad.

 

Well, I've been playing since UO(in at launch). I have to tell you that what I look for in a game today, is rather different than it was then. I'm more interested in cooperative, solo, small group games now.  The days of rabid PvP and sand box games are over(at least for me).  Given the trends I've been seeing, I suspect thats true of a lot of people.

We have seen only the tip of the iceberg in terms of what is possible in terms of technology.  Once game design catches up to what is possible, I suspect it will be amazing.  Until then, try to find some other hobby that will entertain you. But check back every year or two.  I wish you all the very best.

Originally posted by Thedrizzle

 

 Lol... This is a very funny post to me, "we grew up"... HA!

Agreed

 

I don't wanna grow up,
I'm a Toys eR Us kid.
There's a million toys at Toys eR Us
That I can play with.

From bikes to trains to video games
It's the biggest toy store there is!
I don't wanna growup, cuz, baby, if I did,
I couldn't be a Toys eR Us kid!

 

meh, I grew up in the 70's-80's :P

Most vet mmo gamers grew up long ago, know what is good and what is not.

There are already enough toon town games out.

Originally posted by Daywolf

Originally posted by Thedrizzle

 

 Lol... This is a very funny post to me, "we grew up"... HA!

I don't wanna grow up,
I'm a Toys eR Us kid.
There's a million toys at Toys eR Us
That I can play with.

From bikes to trains to video games
It's the biggest toy store there is!
I don't wanna growup, cuz, baby, if I did,
I couldn't be a Toys eR Us kid!

 

meh, I grew up in the 70's-80's :P

Most vet mmo gamers grew up long ago, know what is good and what is not.

 Cute.. Your picture doesn't really correlate to your condescending jingle.

Again, its not about growing up, just cause the market turned to make games appease to the consumers ideals of instant gratification, doens't mean the market has matured,

I'd say a fair amount of vets arent over mmo's their is a few games out that require 0 levels. and personally I'd say the mmo world is starting to turn interesting. A fair amount of new games coming down the road. What it really souds like to me if the op has caught a case of *burn fever*. give mmo's a break awhile and come back. Sounds like ur due in for a mini break that all of us take here and their.

After playing MMO's for a number of years it's not surprising that it grows old.  Allot MMO's try to change or add some new piece or two but the basic gameplay is usually pretty much the same.  A part of me thinks that we are pretty demanding and harsh wanting some sort of holy grail when a new game comes out.  Then bashing it to shreds and nit picking on any part we don't like.  But then another part is a bit glad that gamers aren't passive about the games they play and put demands on the developers.  I know that I've been playing for quite some time and it while it does get old for me (the process) I still manage to enjoy the games.

 

On the communities I do miss the group comradery we used to have when I first started playing.  Not everyone was super nice but people weren't afraid to group.  With the Lotro F2P conversion you will hear advocates state that having more people in the low zones means it will be easier to group.  I'm a bit pessimistic on that issue.  What you may end up with is more people in the zone who still don't want to group.  It felt like in the old days a small group would do some hello's and minor discussion about the game or quests you are grouping up for.  Today it's more like a group request that you accept with a bunch of deaf mutes.  If you say hi in general you will just get a quick hi back before focusing on the quests and then disbanding.  I think that the average MMO gamer today is more focused on getting to some end point with the character and keeps and treats group chat and discussion to a minimum so as not to interfere with the process.  The exception to this in any game are the zone wide (i.e. global) chatters who usually are out grinding/tradeskilling or just bored enough to talk in global.

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by Cephus404

I'm not the same gamer now that I was when I first started in EQ1. I've grown and changed, and have adapted to the new market and to the way that games are now because hey, it's closer to who I am now anyway.

When I first started, I'd spend just as much time in Norrath as I did at work every day. Entire weekends would be sacrificed, too. That went on from EQ's launch until the Ykesha expansion. Since then, I've refused to let that kind of hardcore grind become a part of my life. I'll never go on a raid again. I'll never have the most epic armor, or the most money, or the greatest notoriety in any MMO that I'll play from now until I finally get tired of the genre. I'm okay with that.

I have other priorities now. My life isn't as singularly focused on games anymore as it was back in my 20's. I'd rather find a game that allows me to log in to an interesting world, play for a few hours at a time and show some progress, and have fun while I'm at it. All the rest  is just details, IMO.

 I agree with this. 

I'd add that when someone first starts playing an MMO (for me it was MUDs back in the 80's) there is a certain level of mystery and excitement.  Spending the time in the game to become respected, powerful, etc was a key concept for me. As the years went by, I could recapture part of this by learning new games that came out, but never to the same extent.

I still try new games, still hold out hope of finding one that recaptures my attention for more than a few months, but I've changed as much as the games have changed.  I need to spend time with the wife, kid, doing stuff around the house, etc. Thinking back about the time sinks and hundreds of hours a month spent playing an MMO?  Not possible anymore.

Some of the new games are better suited to my time constraints, some of the designs and features are certainly better than anything in the first generation MMO (and prior MUDs).  The magic of being the first MMO though that can keep you playing for years and years... doubt I'll ever find that again, but I don't think it's the game; it's me.

 

Regards,

Gabriel

Originally posted by HawaiiMike

On the communities I do miss the group comradery we used to have when I first started playing.  Not everyone was super nice but people weren't afraid to group.  

 You aren't alone.  In fact, far from it.  When it gets down to it what a lot of vets really miss is the camaraderie or the community aspect that used to exist.

Originally posted by Thedrizzle

 

 Cute.. Your picture doesn't really correlate to your condescending jingle.

Again, its not about growing up, just cause the market turned to make games appease to the consumers ideals of instant gratification, doens't mean the market has matured,

Pic works fine, it represents the "vet" gamers that think they grew up at some point, but didn't, or were stunted. I never said it matured, actually I see it as the opposite if you followed my position. It's dumbed down childish stuff compared to early releases that were for adults and challenging on many levels. Wasn't attacking your post, unless you are taking a different stance now.
 

I think if you are in a rush to get to the "endgame", it's not a very good game....  i like my MMO's to have gameplay i can enjoy, if it takes 1 month, 3 months, 6 months oh well, i was haveing a great time.... i personally hate the end game. i dont want to hit it till the expansion is almost out.. the idea of repeatables, redoing the same tired raids over and over, doesn't interest me... i lasted 2 weeks after hitting level 80 in wow... my add kicked in so hard the thought of logging in gave me a headache.... i know a lot of gamers rush to the end, and lust after the comfort of raiding familiar dungeons over and over... they know each step by heart, they never get surprised.  i am glad it works for them, i would rather run along at a steady pace, with new challenges to look forward to. Here's hoping StarWars TOR lives up to the hype

[quote]

Agreed[/quote]

Apologize.. In a blind rage of anger i failed to read the first line.

Forgive me,

-Sin

Originally posted by Thedrizzle

[quote]

Agreed[/quote]

Apologize.. In a blind rage of anger i failed to read the first line.

Forgive me,

-Sin

Ah, no worries, Bro. I added that in as an edit two minutes after you posted, but not having seen the post reply yet at that time. I didn't want anyone to misinterpret, I tend to not always be in direct attack but post agreements to subvert the opposition into confusion... lol

Originally posted by gjsfaun

 I agree with this. 

I'd add that when someone first starts playing an MMO (for me it was MUDs back in the 80's) there is a certain level of mystery and excitement.  Spending the time in the game to become respected, powerful, etc was a key concept for me. As the years went by, I could recapture part of this by learning new games that came out, but never to the same extent.

I still try new games, still hold out hope of finding one that recaptures my attention for more than a few months, but I've changed as much as the games have changed.  I need to spend time with the wife, kid, doing stuff around the house, etc. Thinking back about the time sinks and hundreds of hours a month spent playing an MMO?  Not possible anymore.

Some of the new games are better suited to my time constraints, some of the designs and features are certainly better than anything in the first generation MMO (and prior MUDs).  The magic of being the first MMO though that can keep you playing for years and years... doubt I'll ever find that again, but I don't think it's the game; it's me.

This isn't exactly true. The reason you're having trouble finding new MMOs to enjoy is because every new MMO is just a homogenized copy of the one's you've already played.

There are no new stories, no interesting lands to explore, no meaningful quests to fulfill, no unique encounters, no complex strategies... the list goes on and on.

The MMOs made these days aren't made for you and me, they're made for a 14 y/o with ADD.

No wait, lets be realistic about this by the reasoning of this thread. It’s pretty much over for all mmo’s made in the West. The only top game on the Forbs list is WoW, with 9 others from the East. So we are all dooooooooomed. Just wait until India and China really fire up the game forge, WoW will burn, BURN!!! BURN WOW BURN!!! And all it's clones we call new generation mmo's.
Ok back to reality outside of this thread.

I'm trying to figure out the growing up part as it relates to the current games.  The current games are for kiddies, they are simplistic, repetitive, and require little effort.  They are games made for folks in diapers...unless you meant that is how far the people have grown up that enjoy them - to the point they are wearing diapers again.

For the most part, the folks that have grown up - have left.  They no longer play.

There are those that are in the process of growing up - and - they are complaining a lot.

There are those still waiting for their testes to drop...and...they're having a blast!

People that I have played games for with over the past 12-13 years or so... most of them quit a couple of years back.  There are a few that still play, but they are pretty obssessive about their game play.

In the past two weeks:  I quit WoW, tried to play WAR again and quit again,  installed AO - uninstalled AO, started the download for DF's trial - but cancelled it, downloaded DDO again - but deleted before installing, did the demo of STO and tried to pretend that I had not, tried the demo of CO and looked around for a busy intersection to walk out into, fought off the urge to resub to EVE from watching the Alliance Tournament stuff, and ended up resubscribing to CoH to try out Demon Summoning since I did the preorder for GR earlier in the year.  Funny how that 3 days thing works, because though I doubt I played even an hour a day - I've uninstalled and cancelled CoH once more.

Nobody I know still plays any of those games outside of WoW - and they are all in one of those hardcore raiding guilds, so yeah - we don't talk much, lol...

...the thing is, I really do not feel any urge to try to meet folks in games.  I used to play with people I knew outside of work or even folks I worked with... nobody plays these days, everybody...grew up.

Originally posted by VirusDancer

People that I have played games for with over the past 12-13 years or so... most of them quit a couple of years back.  There are a few that still play, but they are pretty obssessive about their game play.

You could only be talking about gaming in general, which is actually on the rise, or has been in recent years. People that have been playing for 12-13 years still play, because it's not just some passing phase or fad. I've been playing videogames since... I think when Star Castle was released as an arcade game (around the time of Asteroids), not counting my pong system.

MMORPG is a genre, there are other genre's, but many that stay like this genre, or the way it was before it adopted this crap CRPG get it now noobified garbage. It's the genre that came about from complex MUD gaming, so many predate the GMUD (now mmo) players by some years even. We play because we like this genre, been playing it for years, and try to put up with the influx of people that don't really like the genre, always trying to change our games from back even when Diablo was around.

So you get what you wish for, game hopping because they are no better than a shallow grave now. Maybe Cataclysm will hold your/their attention for a month or two, until that shallow grave fills up with horse crap again and all the players QQ for more WoW like games to pass the time until the next WoW content driven expansion. FUBAR.

Its not over yet but...its extremely difficult finding a group to play of people you like to play with. Dumbing down, mainstreamness, anonymity and the continuely removing of RPG features has created new communities you don't wanna be part of. Even looking for some so called highend-guilds has never ever been this hard because more and more are run by extremely voice tool whores you can join them "easily" yes, but becoming part of them without using VT for every step of your way is mandatory which sucks for those vets (made a thread for it some time ago), that prefer a more immersive style of gameplay. Making friends was easy back in the good ol' days nowadays its more like ignore list > friends list which is very very sad but you gotta deal with so much stubborn idiots its not even funny thanks to the post 2005 era. Well they can act like a bunch of 6 year old incredible idiots because there are no features with consequences anymore you can solo till max level, getting gear via stupid badges and thanks to VT (NOT) having some attention monkeys guiding you by telling you important things like "I've done some sport today and making OT jokes"...oh yes... And then we have...oh yes the hype whores fanboys following every hyped game only to find out its not their dream game and then starting flame wars, spamming and other bullshit. Another reason are soulless studios such as Sony, Mythic, Activisionblizzard companies former leaded by owners with a vision and passion for games are now beeing sold to devils like Kotick, Riccitello, Smedley and the latest Warnerbrothers. For me it drastically changed my opinion on MMORPG's and also my playtime. At the moment I'm hardly playing 10 hours a week. I've also changed my community acitivity back in the good days I used the official forums having intelligent discussions with the developers, giving feedback and discussed patchnotes nowadays with all the post 2005 crap its simple impossible. Aion used to be the best themepark outthere fully destroyed with patch 1.9 because some idiots from Wow found it to hard to play guess what? You don't need to play it head back to Wow and never look back. Anyway heres hope at some point the anti MMORPG will starting to go down and with it lots of fanboys, non mmo gamers day can't come fast enough for me.

Originally posted by Daywolf

Originally posted by VirusDancer

People that I have played games for with over the past 12-13 years or so... most of them quit a couple of years back.  There are a few that still play, but they are pretty obssessive about their game play.

You could only be talking about gaming in general, which is actually on the rise, or has been in recent years. People that have been playing for 12-13 years still play, because it's not just some passing phase or fad. I've been playing videogames since... I think when Star Castle was released as an arcade game (around the time of Asteroids), not counting my pong system.

MMORPG is a genre, there are other genre's, but many that stay like this genre, or the way it was before it adopted this crap CRPG get it now noobified garbage. It's the genre that came about from complex MUD gaming, so many predate the GMUD (now mmo) players by some years even. We play because we like this genre, been playing it for years, and try to put up with the influx of people that don't really like the genre, always trying to change our games from back even when Diablo was around.

So you get what you wish for, game hopping because they are no better than a shallow grave now. Maybe Cataclysm will hold your/their attention for a month or two, until that shallow grave fills up with horse crap again and all the players QQ for more WoW like games to pass the time until the next WoW content driven expansion. FUBAR.

No, I was talking about those that I have known since my UO days - since my Prodigy chatroom days before that - MUD days, etc.  Most have only started to give up on MMORPGs in the past 2-3 years.  Some have moved over more to console games, some have moved over to replaying old SPRPGs, and some are spending time with their spouses now that the kids have gone off to college...

...most of the people I know that quit wish for non-WoW games.  Heck, even when you get into WoW - you're going to have people that wish it was more like Vanilla, cause many of them realize that WoW keeps getting worse and worse even for what they want.  It is a game lobby... they might as well split end game off, sell it as a separate game for folks looking for that co-op game lobby thing... and take a look at what they could have done with WoW.

...but oh well, that is neither here nor there.