This argument has always sounded silly to me. Games are purchased to be played as entertainment. They are not like your mother making you eat vegetables. You are not forced to buy them. I don't care how much time you think you are saving by buying pixels. Why do it in the first place? Think of all the time you would save by not even buying the game, then you wouldn't have pay someone else so you don't have to play it.

If you are so concerned about how much your time is worth, why did you buy the game if you knew this? Games are a waste of time, they are a form of entertainment. You should also start buying movies and only watching the last 10 minutes to "save" your precious time. You should pay for cable TV and not watch it to "save" your precious time. Maybe you can find a service that you can pay money for to have people give you a brief summary of what the movie or show was about.

That seems like something these guys would argue for. Who has time to waste on actually watching the movies or shows when someone can summarize if for a fee? It would make too much sense to maybe not buy the movies, cable TV, or games you do not have time to watch or play, or perhaps purchase games that are designed for a person with your precious time constraints that you don't have to buy your way out of having to actually play it.

Have you ever though of that? Have you ever thought that when you buy from these shops to make up for these time constraints you have you only encourage these type of long hour games to continue? Instead of fixing these perceived time issues in these games, you are telling these companies "Hey! I like that these games take longer than I have time to play, I would actually pay you more to skip some of it! Just think about that for a moment before you respond. If enough people are really concerned with how long these games take to accomplish things in or how long it takes to "grind", then don't buy them.

If these games do not sell, I promise they will stop being produced. You don't have to pay extra for items in a shop to make up for a game's short falls.

****ATTENTION****

For the folks who do not have the time to read this long post, I would like to offer you the sweet and short condensed version for a small fee of $2.99! Just click here < click me! >

Thank you for reading, I hope you enjoyed.

If, as you say, games are entertainment, wth do you care how we enjoy them?

People find entertainment in different forms.

Decent post, but in spirit of the new trend, I'm afraid my opinions are not free.

Sorry, folks, P2P can work both ways.

I wonder what the new MMO industry would think about that?

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Originally posted by zeowyrm
If, as you say, games are entertainment, wth do you care how we enjoy them?

---

The thing is you are not enjoying the games. You are paying for the game, expansions, monthly fee if any, and then paying extra to skip the game. Apparently you didn't have time to read the whole post or you would realize this post was meant to show if you didn't buy into this, you would get the games you want without these grinds and time constraints you want to buy your way through.

Keep buying in that cash shop, you are only hurting yourself.

Originally posted by qombi

 

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Originally posted by zeowyrm
If, as you say, games are entertainment, wth do you care how we enjoy them?

---

The thing is you are not enjoying the games. You are paying for the game, expansions, monthly fee if any, and then paying extra to skip the game. Apparently you didn't have time to read the whole post or you would realize this post was meant to show if you didn't buy into this, you would get the games you want without these grinds and time constraints you want to buy your way through.

Keep buying in that cash shop, you are only hurting yourself.

Again, if I'm enjoying the game my way, who the hell are you to tell me I'm not doing it right?

Originally posted by qombi

 

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Originally posted by zeowyrm
If, as you say, games are entertainment, wth do you care how we enjoy them?

---

The thing is you are not enjoying the games. You are paying for the game, expansions, monthly fee if any, and then paying extra to skip the game. Apparently you didn't have time to read the whole post or you would realize this post was meant to show if you didn't buy into this, you would get the games you want without these grinds and time constraints you want to buy your way through.

Keep buying in that cash shop, you are only hurting yourself.

Part of the game is fun.  Part of it isn't.  If someone wants to pay in order to skip the un-fun portions, so they can spend more time doing the fun portions, how is that hurting you?

Originally posted by zeowyrm

Originally posted by qombi

 

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Originally posted by zeowyrm
If, as you say, games are entertainment, wth do you care how we enjoy them?

---

The thing is you are not enjoying the games. You are paying for the game, expansions, monthly fee if any, and then paying extra to skip the game. Apparently you didn't have time to read the whole post or you would realize this post was meant to show if you didn't buy into this, you would get the games you want without these grinds and time constraints you want to buy your way through.

Keep buying in that cash shop, you are only hurting yourself.

Again, if I'm enjoying the game my way, who the hell are you to tell me I'm not doing it right?

Don't you see?  You're only allowed to enjoy a game in the exact same way that he is.  He clearly states that you are not enjoying the game, so it must be true!

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by zeowyrm

Originally posted by qombi

 

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Originally posted by zeowyrm
If, as you say, games are entertainment, wth do you care how we enjoy them?

---

The thing is you are not enjoying the games. You are paying for the game, expansions, monthly fee if any, and then paying extra to skip the game. Apparently you didn't have time to read the whole post or you would realize this post was meant to show if you didn't buy into this, you would get the games you want without these grinds and time constraints you want to buy your way through.

Keep buying in that cash shop, you are only hurting yourself.

Again, if I'm enjoying the game my way, who the hell are you to tell me I'm not doing it right?

Don't you see?  You're only allowed to enjoy a game in the exact same way that he is.  He clearly states that you are not enjoying the game, so it must be true!

Ooh, I get it now.  Geez, like living with my father all over again.  "That's not how you swing a bat numbnuts!" :P

What you guys are describing (skipping past the parts that are not "fun") has nothing to do with a game. Let's just skip the pretense of the word game here, shall we?

Now, since we're not talking about games anymore, then yeah, no rules or limits apply. Just have fun.

Just don't kid yourself that you are playing a game.

And what about the P2P's that deliberately stretch their grind out so you'll subscribe for another month?

Honestly, this "rebuttal" applies just as much to some P2P games as it does to some cash-shop games. The difference is that paying $15/month in the cash-shop game can get you a reduced grind so you can spend more time playing the more enjoyable parts, whereas your $15/month for some P2P's still leaves you at square one against the grind.

But yes, as always, nothing changes until we speak with our wallets.

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by qombi

 

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Originally posted by zeowyrm
If, as you say, games are entertainment, wth do you care how we enjoy them?

---

The thing is you are not enjoying the games. You are paying for the game, expansions, monthly fee if any, and then paying extra to skip the game. Apparently you didn't have time to read the whole post or you would realize this post was meant to show if you didn't buy into this, you would get the games you want without these grinds and time constraints you want to buy your way through.

Keep buying in that cash shop, you are only hurting yourself.

 

Part of the game is fun.  Part of it isn't.  If someone wants to pay in order to skip the un-fun portions, so they can spend more time doing the fun portions, how is that hurting you?

 Did I say it was hurting me? My post was a point of view, I described above how it is hurting the person do this. Why not stop supporting these games that you find parts to be unfun and play something that you enjoy all of the game? If you support these games they will take this as a sign this is what the customer wants.

This is a forum after all isn't it where we discuss things. How is your post an argument for cash shops? Your post is more of just a "Hey leave us alone post, we will do what we want!" or a "Don't tell them this, it may open some eyes! We want them to keep buying!". Convince me I am wrong. I have had people convince me I am wrong in the past, doesn't hurt my feelings.

Explain to me why someone purchasing out of a cash shop to skip some of the game is better than not supporting a game they do not like parts of so that a trend to make games they do want without having to purchase out of shop is better.

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by qombi

 

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Originally posted by zeowyrm
If, as you say, games are entertainment, wth do you care how we enjoy them?

---

The thing is you are not enjoying the games. You are paying for the game, expansions, monthly fee if any, and then paying extra to skip the game. Apparently you didn't have time to read the whole post or you would realize this post was meant to show if you didn't buy into this, you would get the games you want without these grinds and time constraints you want to buy your way through.

Keep buying in that cash shop, you are only hurting yourself.

 

Part of the game is fun.  Part of it isn't.  If someone wants to pay in order to skip the un-fun portions, so they can spend more time doing the fun portions, how is that hurting you?

 ^^^ THIS

You dont need to find every single aspect and every single second spent in the game to be fun or enjoyable to like the game overall. And your argument about skipping to the last 10 minutes of the movie are ridiculous. There is no point to a movie other than to get the story, where in a game there are dozens of other things to do besides paying attention to the story (most of which you dont need to know a single thing about the story to do), especially when the story isnt that good or you just dont care for story. If all i cared about was a story, i would go watch a movie or read a book. Im here to play the game and have fun, so if i dont want to waste hours and hours doing something that i dont feel is worth my time, and can pay a measly few bucks to get past it, then yeah ill take that route rather than putting myself through doing something i dont want to do.

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Originally posted by Mehve
And what about the P2P's that deliberately stretch their grind out so you'll subscribe for another month?
Honestly, this "rebuttal" applies just as much to some P2P games as it does to some cash-shop games. The difference is that paying $15/month in the cash-shop game can get you a reduced grind so you can spend more time playing the more enjoyable parts, whereas your $15/month for some P2P's still leaves you at square one against the grind.
But yes, as always, nothing changes until we speak with our wallets.

---

You are exactly right it would apply to what you said as well. I agree, if you don't like how long a p2p game takes as well definitely quit it. I do not support games I do not enjoy. I definitely will not pay extra in an item shop to skip a game I do not have time to play or want to play parts of.

Originally posted by Mehve

And what about the P2P's that deliberately stretch their grind out so you'll subscribe for another month?

Honestly, this "rebuttal" applies just as much to some P2P games as it does to some cash-shop games. The difference is that paying $15/month in the cash-shop game can get you a reduced grind so you can spend more time playing the more enjoyable parts, whereas your $15/month for some P2P's still leaves you at square one against the grind.

But yes, as always, nothing changes until we speak with our wallets.

 Unfortunately the wallets speaking loudest are those that don't care if their actions lead to all MMOs becoming crap.

Originally posted by qombi

 

 Did I say it was hurting me? My post was a point of view, I described above how it is hurting the person do this. Why not stop supporting these games that you find parts to be unfun and play something that you enjoy all of the game? If you support these games they will take this as a sign this is what the customer wants.

This is a forum after all isn't it where we discuss things. How is your post an argument for cash shops? Your post is more of just a "Hey leave us alone post, we will do what we want!" or a "Don't tell them this, it may open some eyes! We want them to keep buying!". Convince me I am wrong. I have had people convince me I am wrong in the past, doesn't hurt my feelings.

Explain to me why someone purchasing out of a cash shop to skip some of the game is better than not supporting a game they do not like parts of so that a trend to make games they do want without having to purchase out of shop is better.

Well, the whole vote with your wallet thing counts doesn't it?  I didn't think WoW was fun anymore, I stopped paying my sub.  I didn't enjoy RoM, didn't spend money on its cash shop.  I like DDO.  Its a nice casual game.  Can't play it for more then a week or so before i get bored, but it's fun enough during that week that I don't mind tossing Turbine 5-10 bucks.  The grinding of the same content in DDO, over and over and over again to earn enough of the currency to buy things in the shop? Not fun.  Playing through the content once or twice is fun to me though, and for that fun, I don't mind paying a little.

Lotro is a game I used to enjoy.  I didn't care for the LI grind and various other changes, but I'll definitely reinstall it when it goes hybrid and try it out.  Will I invest money in it?  Probably.  If I'm having fun.  If not, I won't.  Its very simple for me.

Originally posted by zeowyrm

Originally posted by qombi

 

 Did I say it was hurting me? My post was a point of view, I described above how it is hurting the person do this. Why not stop supporting these games that you find parts to be unfun and play something that you enjoy all of the game? If you support these games they will take this as a sign this is what the customer wants.

This is a forum after all isn't it where we discuss things. How is your post an argument for cash shops? Your post is more of just a "Hey leave us alone post, we will do what we want!" or a "Don't tell them this, it may open some eyes! We want them to keep buying!". Convince me I am wrong. I have had people convince me I am wrong in the past, doesn't hurt my feelings.

Explain to me why someone purchasing out of a cash shop to skip some of the game is better than not supporting a game they do not like parts of so that a trend to make games they do want without having to purchase out of shop is better.

Well, the whole vote with your wallet thing counts doesn't it?  I didn't think WoW was fun anymore, I stopped paying my sub.  I didn't enjoy RoM, didn't spend money on its cash shop.  I like DDO.  Its a nice casual game.  Can't play it for more then a week or so before i get bored, but it's fun enough during that week that I don't mind tossing Turbine 5-10 bucks.  The grinding of the same content in DDO, over and over and over again to earn enough of the currency to buy things in the shop? Not fun.  Playing through the content once or twice is fun to me though, and for that fun, I don't mind paying a little.

Lotro is a game I used to enjoy.  I didn't care for the LI grind and various other changes, but I'll definitely reinstall it when it goes hybrid and try it out.  Will I invest money in it?  Probably.  If I'm having fun.  If not, I won't.  Its very simple for me.

 Definitely if you find something unfun, I encourage people quit before lessening their "unfun" by paying extra in some item shop. You send the wrong signals by doing this. You tell the company that instead of fixing the unfun parts, you are okay with paying extra to skip them.

Not playing anymore tells them that they must fix these issues if they want your money. If enough people feel the same as you then the current trends will change.

Now Lotro, I am okay with a game being free to play (limited access) and you pay to access all content. That is an okay payment model in my eyes. What I do not agree with is the item shop, if it is taking too long to level a person should quit not buy potions. How is anything going to be fixed correctly in these games if people buy past issues?

This only encourages more bad features to encourage players to purchase past them. It does not encourage correcting the issues in the first place. Why should a company fix that boring grind when you are buying digital items to fix it?

Originally posted by qombi

 

---

Originally posted by Mehve
And what about the P2P's that deliberately stretch their grind out so you'll subscribe for another month?
Honestly, this "rebuttal" applies just as much to some P2P games as it does to some cash-shop games. The difference is that paying $15/month in the cash-shop game can get you a reduced grind so you can spend more time playing the more enjoyable parts, whereas your $15/month for some P2P's still leaves you at square one against the grind.
But yes, as always, nothing changes until we speak with our wallets.

---

 

You are exactly right it would apply to what you said as well. I agree, if you don't like how long a p2p game takes as well definitely quit it. I do not support games I do not enjoy. I definitely will not pay extra in an item shop to skip a game I do not have time to play or want to play parts of.

Everything is relative, for some people, spending 50, or even 100 bucks is nothing (not my case btw); so your concern about them is pretty much useless. I have seen people paying just for fluffy things and they are happy, maybe you think they are unhappy because you are assuming they are in the situation where they are desperate but it can be actually the opposite.

I don't see the difference in being frustrated because somebody is time constrained or money constrained, in both cases the person feels that something out his control prevents them from arriving to his goal.  

bah write my message and argument changes before my eyes lol disregard what i said if u read it ^_^

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by zeowyrm

Originally posted by qombi

 

 Did I say it was hurting me? My post was a point of view, I described above how it is hurting the person do this. Why not stop supporting these games that you find parts to be unfun and play something that you enjoy all of the game? If you support these games they will take this as a sign this is what the customer wants.

This is a forum after all isn't it where we discuss things. How is your post an argument for cash shops? Your post is more of just a "Hey leave us alone post, we will do what we want!" or a "Don't tell them this, it may open some eyes! We want them to keep buying!". Convince me I am wrong. I have had people convince me I am wrong in the past, doesn't hurt my feelings.

Explain to me why someone purchasing out of a cash shop to skip some of the game is better than not supporting a game they do not like parts of so that a trend to make games they do want without having to purchase out of shop is better.

Well, the whole vote with your wallet thing counts doesn't it?  I didn't think WoW was fun anymore, I stopped paying my sub.  I didn't enjoy RoM, didn't spend money on its cash shop.  I like DDO.  Its a nice casual game.  Can't play it for more then a week or so before i get bored, but it's fun enough during that week that I don't mind tossing Turbine 5-10 bucks.  The grinding of the same content in DDO, over and over and over again to earn enough of the currency to buy things in the shop? Not fun.  Playing through the content once or twice is fun to me though, and for that fun, I don't mind paying a little.

Lotro is a game I used to enjoy.  I didn't care for the LI grind and various other changes, but I'll definitely reinstall it when it goes hybrid and try it out.  Will I invest money in it?  Probably.  If I'm having fun.  If not, I won't.  Its very simple for me.

 Definitely if you find something unfun, I encourage people quit before lessening their "unfun" by paying extra in some item shop. You send the wrong signals by doing this. You tell the company that instead of fixing the unfun parts, you are okay with paying extra to skip them.

Not playing anymore tells them that they must fix these issues if they want your money. If enough people feel the same as you then the current trends will change.

Now Lotro, I am okay with a game being free to play (limited access) and you pay to access all content. That is an okay payment model in my eyes. What I do not agree with is the item shop, if it is taking too long to level a person should quit not buy potions. How is anything going to be fixed correctly in these games if people buy past issues?

This only encourages more bad features to encourage players to purchase past them. It does not encourage correcting the issues in the first place. Why should a company fix that boring grind when you are buying digital items to fix it?

They shouldn't.  That grind is there to help them make a profit.  If a game doesn't make a profit, it doesn't stick around.  I dunno, maybe I'm the one who gets it and you're the one who doesn't.