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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What would you want from new mmos that you're not getting?

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  Amathe

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/02/05
Posts: 1666

 
OP  6/02/10 8:49:42 PM#1

This is not directed to old mmos, current ones or even ones we know are coming. The idea is, if a game development company were reading this thread for ideas on something totally new, or at least something that needs total improvement, what advice would you give them?

 

I will chip in my own idea (not to say no one ever thought of it but me lol). But try to make the thread about your own wishes and not the merits of mine. *wink*

 

Personally, I would like my avatar to seem less like a clothes rack and feel more "alive." He or she should sustain wounds, be subject to illness, grow older over time, perhaps need a shave or a haircut, and so on. Items should have weight, as they used to, and weight should have an effect. The more activity I engage in, the stronger I should become, not simply as a +10 stat bonus from an item.  Armor should look more weather beaten over time and with use. My character may sustain a permanent scar that has a story behind it.

 

I'm not wedded to one particular mechanic. But the overall effect I am looking for is an avatar that feels like a living person who needs care and benefits from it (or who suffers from neglect).

 

Anyway that's mine. What is yours?

EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  VooDoo_Papa

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/21/10
Posts: 853

6/02/10 9:03:54 PM#2

Id like to see MMO's start to abandon pez-dispenser quest givers and linear quest paths.  I know its a lot easier for developers to design around linear progression, Its just becoming extremely redundant no matter what the genre or storyline is. 

I would also like to see developers go back to the MMO pioneering days when MMOs were thought of as being a role playing game on a grand scale in a world to be molded by a massive amount of players.  Lets bring back player cities and player/guild run shops. 

Aside from that, Id like to see more variety as far as game worlds go.  How about a Planescape/Rifts type game?  More sci-fi or a full blown steam punk mmo.   Until developers start thinking outside of their box that they constantly feel they need to fall into because its making another game developer money, we're gonna keep bouncing from game to game to find out its just more of the same.  Long live the MMO tourist!

  Illius

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 3905

I intend to live forever -- So far so good!

6/02/10 9:05:43 PM#3

I would like Physics to play a role in future games.  I'd like things to have weight, momentum and so on.  One of the ideas I was thinking of was the ability to lay in wait in a tree for ambush purposes.  Once my inteded victim got under it I'd be able to jump out of the tree and land on them causing them obvious bodily harm.

I just want the option to use unorthodox ways to accomplish my goals... whatever they may be.  This is one of the many things I'd like future games to have.  I'll see if I wanna add more in future posts.

No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

6/02/10 9:36:57 PM#4
Originally posted by Amathe

The idea is, if a game development company were reading this thread for ideas on something totally new, or at least something that needs total improvement, what advice would you give them?

I know some people will disagree, but immersion starts with mundanity.

When you run out of content - what is there? You can trick players into doing that same thing over and over again, til you can drop more of it in, or you can set a basis of 'maintenance-type- gameplay that will keep players hooked and too invested to leave. Case in point; housing. Some people don't get it, but until you seen a game where literally *everything* you get in game can be stashed in plain sight, you will not know the ramifications of it. It hooks people, and makes them too afraid to walk after personal investment. It's mundanity at it's best.

Hell, I was even one of the guys that said the old SWG class setup was the best yet because it let you explore classes based on lifestyles in the universe long before you were really shoved into a single combat/social role. It was good for RPers, and it was good for dudes like me that are so into the setting that they would eat it with gravy. LotRO lets you grow pipeweed and people ate it up long before it actually *did* anything. Above all, it's the little things that count, and I think that environments with more interactivity would go a long way too. I respect runescape for this, because you can click on anything and get a response. It makes a full world feel fuller to be able to click a weather-rooster and make it spin, or a grate on the ground to script some glowing eyes. I personally love how things are active in the sky and ground in games like SWG and AO, it gets noticed and appreciated every time I see a driod scoot along the ground or a swarm of bugs fly off as I get close.

Also that you don't need huge text/VO dialog when an environment cann say a thousand words with props and texture swatches. Your told briefly to check out a house, upon entering you would find enough visual clues to figure out what to do, and where to go (bloodstains, toppled over knick-knacks). Even the history of an area doesn't need to be drawn on and is sometimes best left up to the imagination of the player. Like an inconspicous battlefield with no explaination, you might ponder it a bit longer if you didn't know it was a skirmish between the dwarves of ghu'thaak and elves of dir'bldroor. See how stupid that sounds? Best left to interpretation.

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  Ziboo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/05/08
Posts: 127

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.~Aristotle

6/02/10 10:05:09 PM#5

I do like the idea of your character aging/injured etc., as they 'level' or grow in experience.  The same for the hair cuts/shaves and armor starting to look used, unless you take it and have it repairs (and not instantly brand-new!).  That would give so much more of an immersive feel to the world.  I don't RP alot but how great for them that would be. 

The quests not being linear and no damn arrows pointing me in the direction! Or glowing marks above their head.  I like the hint about going to house x and figuring out by clues what occurred.  It feels less grindy.  Clickable things that may give you a quest or add to your knowledge/experience.

I like the having to eat/drink that occurs in EQ2 - it would be great if there were berries or whatever you could gather and eat or farmers that sold you food (NPCs or player driven).  Kill things and cook or your get weaker if you chose not to eat/drink.

Any MMO, I love to explore and not see the exact same wolf in every zone only in different shades of grey, brown or black, unless the zones are attached someway or the Lore supports the same species of X being in multiple places.

I'd love to do away with alot of the insta-travel.  Yes it's convenient but this is suppose to be a 'world' and you don't see it zipping from point a to b to c.  Boat or zeps or flying birds should take time.  EQ2 portals 5 minute wait (or use to not sure how they work now), but missing that as it left, now they go everywhere which ruins the game a bit for me.  Travel shouldn't be that easy.  Getting a mount should be work and come with experience.

I use to enjoy WoW's hunter pet - go find them, you had to keep them fed to be happy.  Train other skills off other animals, now it's just a yawn.

Customization!  AoC had one of the best I've seen, but I'd still like to be able to to really play with colors/texture/facial features, body size/height on a character.

Clothing/armor look like clothing armor - not painted on or clowinish.  Dye colors for all armor/cloth so if you want to look clownish or whatever you can. 

NPC that don't regenerating in 20seconds.  You burn down their camp they rebuild it.

Unfortunately most of this wouldn't appeal to the 'I want it now' crowd or those that believe the game starts at max level. 

 

 

 

 

Proud member of Hammerfist Clan Gaming Community.

Currently playing: RIFT, EQ2, WoW, LoTRO
Retired: Warhammer, AoC, EQ
Waiting: SWToR & GW2

  Cactus-Man

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/10
Posts: 573

6/02/10 10:07:47 PM#6
I don't want an avatar rather I want a character, one that has a personality and an identity, a history, a family maybe, whatever.  I want my character to feel like a whole person.
 
I would like to have more involvement in my character.  I know every time this is brought up someone always says "But RPGs are about blah blah blah" I don't think they are all about dice roles and automated stat calculations.  I am not saying the game should be balls to the wall FPS action, just that I would like to have more of a hand in whether my character succeeds or not.
 
I would like to be able to customize my experience more, not just my character and clothing and house but be able to define some role for myself.  The thing is this needs to be built into the game not just pretend, I could pretend I was a bounty hunter but it is not the same as actually having a mechanic that allows me to play as one.
 
I would like to see more fleshed out worlds.  I would say I want to live the life I am not looking for a simulation of real life though and I do not want to do a bunch of trivial crap.  Giving NPCs a history and purpose outside of handing out quests is a good start.  I would like to be able to participate in different things in the world as well, like playing cards or something.  I do not want it to be turned into a big grind that purposely wastes my time however, i.e. like crafting usually is.
 
I want an actual story.  Having a series of quests which I will not bother to read is not good story telling, and if another person says players make their own story I am going to scream.  An actual story that is driven by the player and where players can have a mostly unique narrative is what I seek.  I am not sure how you have stories and multiplayer but SWTOR is trying it so we will see how that turns out.

All men think they're fascinating. In my case, it's justified

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

6/02/10 10:23:40 PM#7

The number of these threads over the years points to two common "truths" about the MMORPG world - we do not know what we want and developers do not listen.  We end up with a bunch of "ideas" which some like and some hate, so they do not appear and the developers go with the old standards while regurgitating the same old same old at us that we complain about but continue to play.

Some of us want endurance, fatigue, and more reality.  Some complain that they do not want that.  Some want more to do and some complain that is just fluff that distracts them from the endgame.  We go around and around, but inevitably - the developers go with what they know.

So the "first truth" is a lie.  We know what we want.  There are just so many of us and we do not want the same things.  There are more people that want the garbage that some of us complain about rather than the garbage we want that they complain about.

You can look at almost any thread on here and find people disagreeing on every little point about whether something is good or bad.

PvP.  Good and bad.  Housing.  Good and bad.  Instancing.  Good and bad.  Etc.  Good and bad.

Face it, developers and game companies are in it for the money - whether it is for profit or for the money to keep things going, it comes down to that lowest common denominator.  They often have to sell out on their dreams to make a fragment of the dream come true.  It is kind of like politics, full of compromise.

That being said, sure, why not...here it goes again:

More realistic.  Encumbrance, fatigue, crippling wounds, weather, environment, and all the rest.  If player A is a scrawny mage type, they should not be lugging around the same amount of loot as player B who is all brawn and no brains.  Even so, player B should not be able to swing their hefty two-handed axe around for several hours without wheezing a bit regardless of their conditioning.  If it is hot, it should affect the characters.  If it is cold, it should affect the characters.  Player C wearing that shiny chainmail bikini is going to shiver while trying to fight up on top of Mount OMFGCold.  Blood loss from wounds, blows to the head, and all the rest will affect how a character performs.  Granted, these characters are heroes and will be capable of far more than your average keyboard jockey...but c'mon, just because we might have the endurance to sit at our keyboards for six hours does not mean our avatars have the endurance to keep fighting hard with no downtime for all that time.

Heck, I might as well stop there - because people will complain this will create too much downtime and make it take too long to level.

Course, I would say that is because most games do not really offer the content that MMORPGs should have.  Not everything need be about endless pew pew.  With actual crafting, a genuine player economy, non-combat quests, and the plethora of things that one could be doing to advance their characters in a non-linear fashion...

But still, this would not cater to the ADHD twitch crowd.  It would kill them if I were to suggest realistic travel times, eh?

Because that would be part of it.  Taking into account current travel speeds in most games, you have to figure that most game worlds are probably smaller than a decent sized shopping mall.

I would like a game with the "starting" areas where you have the grand NPC cities, etc.  Yet these would be spread out across vast areas.  Might they have faster modes of transfer between them?  Perhaps, depending on what the current political climate is - for a hefty cost - not that often - etc.  Then again, I would prefer the idea of following a caravan that takes days to get to the next city - perhaps stopping off at various NPC/PC villages between.  Yes, the vast majority of cities, towns, etc. would be player owned and operated.  They would not be permanent, mind you.  They would be subject to attacks from other players and even NPCs.  Cities would rank up, having better guards, etc, being able to deal with increased threats.  Guilds could form alliances, nations, nation alliances, etc.

What is that?  Sounds like FFA PvP?  People hate that.  Nah, not going to happen.

I guess I really should stop there, eh?

For most of us, it would probably be easier to pick features from various games we have played that we liked, we think would be great if changed, or we hated and never want to see again.

Even here, most people will just laugh and say we need to adapt.  Since most of the features folks will point out will be from defunct games or dying games.  The thing here is, the game did not die because of those features we liked - there were usually other problems.  So give it a thought, eh?

In the end though, it is pretty obvious that the money is coming from the twitchy console kiddies as they come of age with disposable income... take a look at Champions Online.  I mean, if anybody was the least bit familiar with the Hero System, Champions, etc... and then look at the finished game - WTF?  How?  People have talked about all the various IPs they would like to see as a MMORPG, but face it - stop it, cause you know some company will just ruin it.

Most folks probably just need to stick to PnP, possibly get on Vent or the like, find some online dice roller app everybody can see, and call it quits...

...cause the games are only going to get worse for those of us that want more, while for those happy with meaningless grind - well, the games will hold their attention for a few months as they bounce between subs.

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

6/02/10 10:29:13 PM#8

A virtual world without instances, little hand holding, lots of options, a focus on social interaction and player interdependency and enough innovations so that I don't feel like I've already played the game a million times the first time I log in (WAR, WoW, AoC, LotRO). 

 

Back when MMOs were innovative, each new MMO had a bit of a learning curve because they all played differently. It was exciting. Now I get bored within 5 minutes of trying a BRAND NEW GAME.

 

Also, PvP as the primary end game. Raids and such will be included but won't be important, so they can be done for fun to take a break from PvP instead of becoming a chore.

 

Hell, just give me DAoC 2.  

  reillan

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/07
Posts: 233

6/02/10 10:32:20 PM#9

an actual community

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

6/03/10 12:42:14 AM#10
Originally posted by Garvon3

A virtual world without instances, little hand holding, lots of options, a focus on social interaction and player interdependency and enough innovations so that I don't feel like I've already played the game a million times the first time I log in (WAR, WoW, AoC, LotRO). 

 

Back when MMOs were innovative, each new MMO had a bit of a learning curve because they all played differently. It was exciting. Now I get bored within 5 minutes of trying a BRAND NEW GAME.

 

Also, PvP as the primary end game. Raids and such will be included but won't be important, so they can be done for fun to take a break from PvP instead of becoming a chore.

 

Hell, just give me DAoC 2.  

 Welcome to niche standing.

 

Since the launch of EQ1, PVE games have ruled the sub charts.  This was even before the influx of the casual WoW crowd.

 

If you are looking for a PVE game, one that ends in PVP....then I trust you are subscribed to DF.

 

I would take a re-image of EQ1 as it stood back in 06 when I left. I mean the whole game, just toning things down(focus on solo/small grps, no crazy camp times/med time/etc). Raids also would be no more than 10 or 15 folks....with 5 to about 8 being preferable.

 

I would also keep zones, as I liked how each had its own feel to it. I would also hope they help out a competing site, and put allakhazam out of business. Hated going there for info, knowing it was owned by a gold seller.

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

6/03/10 12:58:49 AM#11

When stating that PVE games dominated subs, that ignores that most of those PVE games offer PVP in some form - either heavy or light.  Yes, they have their carebear populations...but they are not exclusively carebear games.

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  Zoomzoo

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/07
Posts: 82

6/03/10 1:05:23 AM#12

I like lots of the suggestions here -

but do count me as one of the niche - porvided it is done right (3 relatively equal sides with tangible benefits to the winning side) the RvR endgame is, in my opinion, the only endgame that doesn't require constant expansions and updates by the developers to develop new and unique challenges for those at max level.

For example:  DAOC, Planetside.

Star Wars could be built around a huge massive RvR endgame.  But that's apparently not gonna happen with SWTOR, or any other upcoming MMO that I am aware of.

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

6/03/10 1:35:13 AM#13
Originally posted by VirusDancer

When stating that PVE games dominated subs, that ignores that most of those PVE games offer PVP in some form - either heavy or light.  Yes, they have their carebear populations...but they are not exclusively carebear games.

It is an add on....it isnt the primary focus of game. Dont be dense.

 

By removing FFA PVP, it keeps the tools that are playing from ganking noobs in game....thus running off potential customers.

 

Any moron, that utilizes the word "carebear", is the epitome of being "ones own worst enemy".  Farming noobs, in a feeble attempt to bolster their e-peen....all the while reducing the longevity of the title they are playing.

 

Friggen rocket scientists I tell ya.

 

I hope they dont put their shoulders out of socket by patting themselves on the back. All the while chanting "we sure showed those carebear noobs". Darkfall's 10k subs owes you 1337 individuals a thank you.

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

6/03/10 1:57:04 AM#14
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by VirusDancer

When stating that PVE games dominated subs, that ignores that most of those PVE games offer PVP in some form - either heavy or light.  Yes, they have their carebear populations...but they are not exclusively carebear games.

It is an add on....it isnt the primary focus of game. Dont be dense.

 By removing FFA PVP, it keeps the tools that are playing from ganking noobs in game....thus running off potential customers.

 Any moron, that utilizes the word "carebear", is the epitome of being "ones own worst enemy".  Farming noobs, in a feeble attempt to bolster their e-peen....all the while reducing the longevity of the title they are playing.

 Friggen rocket scientists I tell ya.

 I hope they dont put their shoulders out of socket by patting themselves on the back. All the while chanting "we sure showed those carebear noobs". Darkfall's 10k subs owes you 1337 individuals a thank you.

It has nothing to do with thinking one is elite or the like.  Carebears are carebears, they cry, they whine, they want everything to be easy mode, they want everything handed to them, etc.  They want all the reward for no risk.  It goes beyond the simple to PvP or not to PvP - the term applies so well to so many.

You have a lot of angst going for you there - antagonistic to the reality of the situation.  You like to extrapolate on most of your arguments, slipping in fraudulent statements as if they were fact.

I mean, look at your post there - a person that uses the term "carebear" is a moron that likes to farm noobs while trying to bolster their e-peen.  Look at everything you have attributed to a person using that term.

As for the primary focus of the game, the standard focus of games these days is an endless repetitive grind for tiered gear with no actual character advancement.  In some games, this takes place on a PvP side as well.  By removing FFA PvP, you remove any actual challenge to the game - and - would find more challenge in playing Bejeweled.

Are there means to prevent the tools from ganking the noobs?  Various games have done starting areas and the like.  They had other issues though, and thus they have gone under.  PvE will never offer the challenge that PvP does - and if you are fine with less challenging, well, you fit in well with the casual sheep out there that generate those sub numbers you are so fond of...

...Combat on the Atari 2600 was more fun playing against a person than playing against the AI.  PnP RPGs with a DM/GM were more fun than a computer/console RPG against an AI.  PvP > PvE... simple fact.

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

6/03/10 1:58:06 AM#15

BTW, with all your hate of Darkfall and the recent announcement of the actual free trial...I'm actually downloading the game now.  Thanks...

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  Coman

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 1954

6/03/10 2:09:27 AM#16
Originally posted by Moaky07

Any moron, that utilizes the word "carebear", is the epitome of being "ones own worst enemy".  Farming noobs, in a feeble attempt to bolster their e-peen....all the while reducing the longevity of the title they are playing.

Carebear is simply a personality stereotype. Someone who likes a certain-game style. In most cases a person who preferes easy mode over having to work hard to archive something and there is simply NOTHING wrong with being an carebear especially considering gaming. You should play them the way you like to play them. This however does not mean everyone like this style of gaming.

Anyhow what I would like to see? I am simply waiting for MMO 2.0! Where we the users create the content and not the publisher. Ryzom definitly made a decent start into this. 

  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1296

6/03/10 2:15:55 AM#17

For me it has to be a compelling story. Also if they could put in a few puzzles (lucasarts/film adventure game style) for some quests. Also an awesome world to be in.

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

6/03/10 2:19:12 AM#18
Originally posted by Coman

Anyhow what I would like to see? I am simply waiting for MMO 2.0! Where we the users create the content and not the publisher. Ryzom definitly made a decent start into this. 

It is kind of interesting that you mention Ryzzom, since they released Ryzom Core which includes the code for client, server, and tools.  If one had the inclination and time, one could work toward what they like from there.  Could see doing one of those miniMMO things with it for a few friends and the like...

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  Daywolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 754

Woof!

6/03/10 5:55:58 AM#19

sandbox --> 95% persistent --> grouping has the carrot.

M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demo’s & indie alpha's.

  Khalathwyr

Tipster

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

6/03/10 6:08:57 AM#20
Originally posted by Daywolf

sandbox --> 95% persistent --> grouping has the carrot.

This for the most part. More virtual world type options for entertainment. More "professions" that answer the question how/why there are this much variety in types of goods or buildings, etc. Less but more important quests. No levels, just a ton of skills (at least 50% non-combat) to choose from.

Let the skill be adventure hooks that prompt the imagination to create the character be they combat or non-combat oriented.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

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