Originally posted by jinxxed0

I like how people that have never played this game defend it...

... But if you never played it, you can't insult people that dislike it after having played it.  

 

I currently play this game.  I have no illusions of "making it big" via the system, the system does not allow that.   I have not made money off this game.  I like the game, and think it is the future of the MMO genre.

Oh and for the record, the game is skill based.  Youve tied the monster loot in with "Skill" in such a way as to confuse the reader.  Let me undo that knot:

If monster loot was based off "skill" then it stands to reason that if you performed some uber combo on a mob you would be  rewarded with uber loot for your very skilled move.   Can anyone tell me a game that does that, or should?   Folks would just macro up a super finisher and loot epic weapons off every mob they killed.

That sounds pretty stupid, doesnt it?   Even WOW isnt this lame --- and yet this user suggests that EU go in this direction!  Some folks need to design their own MMO's just to find out how bad their ideas really are.

Originally posted by dar_es_balat

 

The investigating commission determined that the game was not gambling.  The system was at its core predictable, and a player with the right information could deterimine when the next mother lode would strike.  

You cannot tell me that you haven't heard of counting cards. Even slot machines are predictable over time. Which is why the more they are played without a jackpot, probability dictates the higher the chance of a large payout. Which is why a gambler can become violent at casinos if you take their chair for any reason. It's also why casinos watch people who win big too often and escourt them on their merry way.

And you are also right.. most courts would not refer to this as gambling. Simply because most courts do not take video games serious. Also, the game have non-gambling elements that allow you to play full time as well. Kind of like the WoW card games. You can play the WoW card game... but a lot buy the packs for the chance to get a mini-pet in game. A chance... that's what gambling is all about.

So, please understand, I  am not calling it a casino. But, if you are looking at hunting .. and are hoping for that next juicy loot drop, while you are pouring in cash for ammo (not saying you in particular)... that is gambling. My main issue with this is that the odds of the chance of you winning something with more value of your ammo should be displayed somewhere.

Oy vey.  :-)  This argument could go around and around forever.  Suffice it to say I think we differ in our perception of social responsibility.   It sounds like you object to the game because a player could use it to gamble.  I agree with that assessment, however anything could be used as a gamble.  You can speed up your car at the yellow light, hoping to make it through before it turns red and you get a $371 ticket.  Thats gambling.    You could smoke 2 packs a day for 20 years and figure you will end up like your granddad, who lived till 97, ignoring all evidence to the cotrary.  Also gambling.

I think where you and I differ is in the question of who is responsible for unhealthy behavior?  You seem to lean towards the philosophy that the developer has an obligation to create a product that on some level oversees its users and ensures their good health.    I believe a user should oversee themselves.   If they cannot do that it is not someone elses responsibility to babysit them.

There is a clear difference between gambling for financial gain and gambling as a thrill. In Entropia, it's common belief and openly advertised that you can gain money. People hope for the big prize and cash out while they are ahead. That is blatently different than speeding through that almost red light and hope you don't get a ticket.

And no.. I'm not arguing social values. I'm calling the game as it is instead of using hidden marketing terms to avoid the fact that it is not a normal MMORPG. My only problem with the developer is that they do not release the odds of which you have to "earn winnings". It's like buying lottery tickets without the odds displayed for a cash prize limit that you don't know.... or.... going to a poker table and playing a hand while the dealer never has to reveal their cards.... or... playing on a roulette table that all the numbers are missing. It's blatently wrong when the game itself is used as a gambling medium.

To clarify this - Please keep in mind that I not against gambling. I am not saying the responsibility of gambling and addiction should belong on just the developer (it does to a point when sly marketing tactics are concerned). I am also not saying that the game itself is bad (although I feel that the gathering could be improved). I am also not saying that the entire game is about gambling - However, combat does.

Originally posted by dar_es_balat

Oy vey.  :-)  This argument could go around and around forever.  Suffice it to say I think we differ in our perception of social responsibility.   It sounds like you object to the game because a player could use it to gamble.  I agree with that assessment, however anything could be used as a gamble.  You can speed up your car at the yellow light, hoping to make it through before it turns red and you get a $371 ticket.  Thats gambling.    You could smoke 2 packs a day for 20 years and figure you will end up like your granddad, who lived till 97, ignoring all evidence to the cotrary.  Also gambling.

I think where you and I differ is in the question of who is responsible for unhealthy behavior?  You seem to lean towards the philosophy that the developer has an obligation to create a product that on some level oversees its users and ensures their good health.    I believe a user should oversee themselves.   If they cannot do that it is not someone elses responsibility to babysit them.

The *individual* is responsible for *their own* behavior(and the consequences there of).  Any other approach leads into the various collectivist hells that history is so full of examples of.  EU isn't my type of game, but that is simply my personal choice. One has to question the ideology and agenda of those who insist that it is "gambling". That has certain knee jerk reactions to those who insist on controlling other people lives and resources. All for the "greater good" of course...

Bottom line, Mindark just has a different business model for their game than some others. If they have enough players to stay in business and make a profit, then more power to them.

Originally posted by Kaelaan21

And no.. I'm not arguing social values. I'm calling the game as it is instead of using hidden marketing terms to avoid the fact that it is not a normal MMORPG. My only problem with the developer is that they do not release the odds of which you have to "earn winnings". It's like buying lottery tickets without the odds displayed for a cash prize limit that you don't know.... or.... going to a poker table and playing a hand while the dealer never has to reveal their cards.... or... playing on a roulette table that all the numbers are missing. It's blatently wrong when the game itself is used as a gambling medium.

 

To clarify this - Please keep in mind that I not against gambling. I am not saying the responsibility of gambling and addiction should belong on just the developer (it does to a point when sly marketing tactics are concerned). I am also not saying that the game itself is bad (although I feel that the gathering could be improved). I am also not saying that the entire game is about gambling - However, combat does.

 

Omitted the first paragraph.  It was just rehashing.    Lets deal with the second and third.

First, what is a normal MMO?  You seem interested in calling things as they are -- so I will follow that lead.

• A normal MMO is a product whereby the user pays an indeterminate amount of money over time for the privilege of spending their lives looking at a computer monitor, getting fatter, lazier, and more slovenly with every piece of pizza eaten and soda imbibed.
• A normal MMO is a product where the user performs the same actions, in the same sequence, and recieves varying rewards.  These actions include pressing WASD, clicking the left mouse button, and using the numbers 1-6 repeatedly.
• A normal MMO is a timesink, where hundreds of hours are spent, maybe even thousands, as the clock governing all users lives ticks little by little toward oblivion.

Viewing a normal MMO through these categories it can be easily surmised that there isnt an MMO developer out there who gives a rats ass about their consumers health, well being, or financial status.  That being said how is Entropia any worse than any other MMO.  Its developers dont give a hoot about you, your health, or your mortgage.  They simply want your time and your money.   It is a extremely normal MMO.

As for sly marketing tactics, what MMO developer has come out and said the above, and then said "Hey so buy our product" afterwards?  I'll give you a short answer.   None.    Guess theyre all involved in sly marketing tactics.   Or perhaps you actually are a hero flinging a sword the size of a small aircraft around like a toy....

Originally posted by Kaelaan21
...

And no.. I'm not arguing social values. I'm calling the game as it is instead of using hidden marketing terms to avoid the fact that it is not a normal MMORPG. My only problem with the developer is that they do not release the odds of which you have to "earn winnings". It's like buying lottery tickets without the odds displayed for a cash prize limit that you don't know.... or.... going to a poker table and playing a hand while the dealer never has to reveal their cards.... or... playing on a roulette table that all the numbers are missing. It's blatently wrong when the game itself is used as a gambling medium.

 ...

I'm curious what kind of odds you would like the developers to release because it's not that simple. In a lottery you buy a ticket and hope for the best, same with a roulette table. In EU player skills and avatar skills affect your "winnings" by choosing the right mobs to hunt with the right weapons at the right level for example. You can't factor those skills into odds of a return rate.

Originally posted by Serpentar

... The process for getting my self unstuck was to log out, email support and then wait for their reply. It took three hours for my character to get free. ..

 

 You should have pressed "T" to wind up at the nearest revive terminal. :)

Just love reading this thread. Whine whine whine....

People always say them want new thinking, well here you go.

This game has introduced tons of new ways to play an MMORPG. But go back and play your damn wow-clones that some asian guy cut and patched together over a weekend.

I played EU on and off for 3 years. I never put a cent in and got stuff and skills worth about 5000 dollars.

Just because you are to stupid to handle your money. But please, I got room for your money too.