Originally posted by vladakov

they don't have to nerf anything,  they just need to fix the shadowstep mechanic in that area of naxxramas...

 

He explains that he is shadowstepping to a creep that he spawned.  Not an exploit.  Go to the youtube video and read his description.  All of it is done with proper application of game mechanics.

Originally posted by gordunk

Originally posted by vladakov

they don't have to nerf anything,  they just need to fix the shadowstep mechanic in that area of naxxramas...

 

He explains that he is shadowstepping to a creep that he spawned.  Not an exploit.  Go to the youtube video and read his description.  All of it is done with proper application of game mechanics.

Reguardless of his reasoning he doesn't get to make the decision. If this gets up the Wow developers nose they can label it an exploit no matter what anbody else thinks.

Originally posted by vladakov

Originally posted by Kyleran

Impressive accomplishment, Blizz will either nerf it or call it an exploit.

 

are you blind? it is an exploit, he uses shadowstep to get up into the pipe all the time,

 

and shadowstep teleports you BEHIND THE TARGET enemy, but in this case it doesn't, shadowstep doesn't work accordingly at that point of naxx, so it makes it an exploit.

 

wouldn't be surprised if he'd get a ban, exploiting is illegal, read the terms of agreement...

 

Blizzards game, they are god.

 

How is this an exploit? he clearly targets one of the rats in the sewers and shadowsteps up there.

He most likely has a Macro for it. Clever use of game mechanics, blizzard prolly nerf it tough, easiest way to nerf this would be by simply removing the rats from that specific sewer, and this whole thing wont work anymore.

The only exploit here is his defeating of the enrage timer through the use of vanish, and catching him before he reaches his full heal point.

Wow!! Seriously to all the people who are yelling exploit and "that area of Naxxramas" you obviously did NOT read how he did this.

He brought an Unconcious Dig Rat, a non-combat critter you can farm in the Barrens region of pre-BC WoW. He dropped the Rat in the sewers before pulling Patchwerk from just inside his "reset" range. He then used that rat as an anchor for his Shadowstep using the very allowed macro language.

Clearly he just used some very available mechanics in a quite ingenius way. Blizzard's fault really because Patchwerk was given a VERY wide leash radius so that you can't just run/blink/shadowstep past him to skip a boss.

Blizzard could make it so that you cannot target a critter for Shadowstep, but as others have made clear, meh... who cares, old content that no one really cares about anymore for no real value other than e-peen.

What Blizzard WILL look at is if that trick would grant some unfair advantage in some new future content.

Not that it bothers or affects me in any way I just thought I'd point out to the people explaining that it's only a 'clever use of game mechanics' that an exploit is exactly that. When someone uses an exploit they use the game mechanics in a way that was not intended by the devs to gain an advantage. Sometimes this is through use of an obvious bug but other times it can simply be an unintended side effect of another feature.

If a rogue is able to effectively set himself a warp location through the use of a critter pet and shadowstep and Blizzard did not intend for them to have that ability then it is something that will be fixed.

     Guess this game isnt Lacking in Content?, Snoooooore

Originally posted by Alberel

Not that it bothers or affects me in any way I just thought I'd point out to the people explaining that it's only a 'clever use of game mechanics' that an exploit is exactly that. When someone uses an exploit they use the game mechanics in a way that was not intended by the devs to gain an advantage. Sometimes this is through use of an obvious bug but other times it can simply be an unintended side effect of another feature.

If a rogue is able to effectively set himself a warp location through the use of a critter pet and shadowstep and Blizzard did not intend for them to have that ability then it is something that will be fixed.

Hunters weren't intended to be able to Jump Shoot at all. Blizzard allowed that.

Shamans weren't intended to beef up their damage output more than 3x by using shocks between attacks, etc. Blizzard nerfed these Shamans but still allowed it.

Paladins weren't intended to be able to fill every PvE role this well. Blizzard allowed that and even buffed it.

As a previous poster stated, Death Knights weren't intended to solo 5-man Heroics. Blizzard allowed that.

Twinks were not supposed to have existed in BGs. Blizzard allowed that.

Rogue's Stun Lock was not in the first description I read near when WoW came out. Blizzard allowed that.

Flying Herbalism was not intended in Burning Crusade. Blizzad allowed that.

These are not actually "exploits". If all players only did as Blizzard intended, WoW would actually be a pretty dull game. Blizzard did not intend for a Level 18 Horde Paladin to sneak into Elwynn Forest by finding a path through the mountains, but I did that. Was that an exploit?

Let's get the definition right. An exploit is not something Blizzard did not intend in its mechanics. An exploit is the usage of a mistake in a mechanic. No one can deny that warping yourself into a location that does not follow the spell's description is an exploit, because clearly the mechanic is broken. But to cleverly use the Unconscious Dig Rat and use it as a site to teleport to was not BROKEN. It was intended to be that way. But he used it in a situation where it would be more beneficial than just teleporting to a random dig rat, as Blizzard INTENDED.

If Blizzard was NOT okay with someone doing something clever with a mechanic, then they'd patch it. They would not ban the player for exploiting, because it is not.

yeah, 4 hours.  on a boss that mattered a year ago.

nope, don't think i'm interested.

arc mages used to be able to solo naxx by spell stealing bone shield and getting the damage buff from mobs hitting you.

The guy who posted the video on how to do it got banned

creative use of ingame mechanics doesn't protect you from doing something you aren't supposed to be able to do.

4h45 to kill a mob, hardly something devs would change.

yes its exploit but 4 hours and 45mins you think about it its insane

oldest exploit was in diablo 1 where you dupe money taking 2 sec to do its 1200% badest

you will ask to do it again maybe he wont get it

usualy exploit make thing more easy its not really easy

so patch and close the thread :)

just make it impossible to go without being in raid and alone only entrance available like 30 yard near the portal

thats it :)

Originally posted by bisurge

Originally posted by Alberel

Not that it bothers or affects me in any way I just thought I'd point out to the people explaining that it's only a 'clever use of game mechanics' that an exploit is exactly that. When someone uses an exploit they use the game mechanics in a way that was not intended by the devs to gain an advantage. Sometimes this is through use of an obvious bug but other times it can simply be an unintended side effect of another feature.

If a rogue is able to effectively set himself a warp location through the use of a critter pet and shadowstep and Blizzard did not intend for them to have that ability then it is something that will be fixed.

Hunters weren't intended to be able to Jump Shoot at all. Blizzard allowed that.

They would simply adapt the class to suit the new 'mechanic' found by the player. They won't nerf it if there is another way to rebalance the situation.

Shamans weren't intended to beef up their damage output more than 3x by using shocks between attacks, etc. Blizzard nerfed these Shamans but still allowed it.

Same as above.

Paladins weren't intended to be able to fill every PvE role this well. Blizzard allowed that and even buffed it.

Since this was done deliberately by Blizzard I don't see the point... Blizzard shows extreme favouritism to the Paladin class, I don't see how that has anything to do with exploits.

As a previous poster stated, Death Knights weren't intended to solo 5-man Heroics. Blizzard allowed that.

If it was done purely through the skills already available to the player used as Blizzard intended then it's simply a sign of a good player and they won't nerf/balance it if they don't think it is conferring any sort of significant advantage.

Twinks were not supposed to have existed in BGs. Blizzard allowed that.

Given how popular twinks became Blizzard was likely aware that preventing them from competing in BGs would cause more harm than good.

Rogue's Stun Lock was not in the first description I read near when WoW came out. Blizzard allowed that.

I somehow doubt Blizzard was unaware of this before the players discovered it; I expect it was deliberate.

Flying Herbalism was not intended in Burning Crusade. Blizzad allowed that.

Again Blizzard either didn't see it as bestowing a significant advantage or otherwise accomodated for it elsewhere. They won't directly nerf something if they don't think they need to.

These are not actually "exploits". If all players only did as Blizzard intended, WoW would actually be a pretty dull game. Blizzard did not intend for a Level 18 Horde Paladin to sneak into Elwynn Forest by finding a path through the mountains, but I did that. Was that an exploit?

I don't see how exploring is an exploit, you don't really gain anything by doing it... most MMOs actually encourage and reward exploration that defeats terrain boundaries with easter eggs and the like.

Let's get the definition right. An exploit is not something Blizzard did not intend in its mechanics. An exploit is the usage of a mistake in a mechanic.

Let's also get this right: something that Blizzard did not intend in its mechanics could also be seen as a mistake! If I wrote a script for a program and it suddenly did something that I did not intend it to do I'm pretty sure I'd want to go and fix the MISTAKE that caused it to do that.

No one can deny that warping yourself into a location that does not follow the spell's description is an exploit, because clearly the mechanic is broken. But to cleverly use the Unconscious Dig Rat and use it as a site to teleport to was not BROKEN.

Actually since you're getting into the semantics of the skill description I'll quote it: 'Attempts to step through the shadows and reappear behind your enemy...' So lets see was the dig rat the rogues enemy? No, Patchwerk was his enemy. Was the dig rat ever an enemy? No, it's an unconscious non-aggressive critter NPC. So he is using the skill in a way that defies the description and thus by your OWN definition it is broken and thus it is an exploit.

It was intended to be that way. But he used it in a situation where it would be more beneficial than just teleporting to a random dig rat, as Blizzard INTENDED.

I doubt they created the dig rat with the sole intention of it being for rogues to set down and shadowstep to. If that's the case then  low and behold it's UNINTENDED. Also if someone is able to use a feature or mechanic in a way that is unintended in order to do something that they are clearly not supposed to be able to do how can you even try to argue that it's not broken? If this rogue was now hypothetically able to go and solo Arthas would you still just sit there and say  he was doing as Blizzard intended?

If Blizzard was NOT okay with someone doing something clever with a mechanic, then they'd patch it. They would not ban the player for exploiting, because it is not.

See the response by greenbow54 two posts below yours, it makes it quite clear that you are wrong.

Just because Blizzard doesn't directly deal with an exploit it doesn't make it any less of one. Where possible they will incorporate the player's ingenuity and balance around it, especially if a large number of players have already adopted it as a 'feature'. In cases such as this, however, where the abuse of this critter pet grants rogues a significant new gameplay option that may be of use outside of the situation we've seen it used in (warping to a selected nearby location, essentially identical to the warlock spell) I can't see much other choice for them than to simply disable the ability to shadowstep to it. This isn't about the rogue defeating Patchwerk, it's about whether the exploit he's found is potentially unbalancing outside of this one rare example.

Originally posted by bisurge

Originally posted by Alberel

Not that it bothers or affects me in any way I just thought I'd point out to the people explaining that it's only a 'clever use of game mechanics' that an exploit is exactly that. When someone uses an exploit they use the game mechanics in a way that was not intended by the devs to gain an advantage. Sometimes this is through use of an obvious bug but other times it can simply be an unintended side effect of another feature.

If a rogue is able to effectively set himself a warp location through the use of a critter pet and shadowstep and Blizzard did not intend for them to have that ability then it is something that will be fixed.

Hunters weren't intended to be able to Jump Shoot at all. Blizzard allowed that.

Shamans weren't intended to beef up their damage output more than 3x by using shocks between attacks, etc. Blizzard nerfed these Shamans but still allowed it.

Paladins weren't intended to be able to fill every PvE role this well. Blizzard allowed that and even buffed it.

As a previous poster stated, Death Knights weren't intended to solo 5-man Heroics. Blizzard allowed that.

Twinks were not supposed to have existed in BGs. Blizzard allowed that.

Rogue's Stun Lock was not in the first description I read near when WoW came out. Blizzard allowed that.

Flying Herbalism was not intended in Burning Crusade. Blizzad allowed that.

These are not actually "exploits". If all players only did as Blizzard intended, WoW would actually be a pretty dull game. Blizzard did not intend for a Level 18 Horde Paladin to sneak into Elwynn Forest by finding a path through the mountains, but I did that. Was that an exploit?

Let's get the definition right. An exploit is not something Blizzard did not intend in its mechanics. An exploit is the usage of a mistake in a mechanic. No one can deny that warping yourself into a location that does not follow the spell's description is an exploit, because clearly the mechanic is broken. But to cleverly use the Unconscious Dig Rat and use it as a site to teleport to was not BROKEN. It was intended to be that way. But he used it in a situation where it would be more beneficial than just teleporting to a random dig rat, as Blizzard INTENDED.

If Blizzard was NOT okay with someone doing something clever with a mechanic, then they'd patch it. They would not ban the player for exploiting, because it is not.

Obviously you weren't paying attention to Blizzard over the years.

Ensidia banned over use of saronite bombs that "bugged" arthas.

Care Bear Stare banned for killing Flame Leviathan with less than a full raid.

Exodus banned for creative use of mechanics on Yogg.

People banned for chain killing Jaina for gold

Players were banned for kiting Kazzak, azuregos, etc to the main cities

Guilds banned for Raid Instance Cascading

Alliance Guilds using DI on Razorgore that got banned

Mages getting banned for spellstealing in Naxx

Guilds being banned for kiting Broodlord into vaels room

Mindcontrolling trash mobs at VR got people banned

So yeah Blizzard will ban for an exploit, in fact they will ban an entire raid. I'm sure there is a bunch more exploits that people got banned for that I can't remember. The point is really that if you're caught doing something questionable you can and will be banned. A lot of the time people don't get banned because no one reports them but youtube videos and publicity will certainly get you banned.

The sad fact is that there is a very long list of mechanics and stategies that worked fine but blizzard nerfed them because they weren't their vision. Some got people banned and others skated by. Like the oozling debuffs on C'thun, Debuff limits on Vael, hiding behind the throne on Nef, The fire resist buff from LBRS, buff stacking, etc.

If they deem this a bannable exploit they are even bigger fools than many of us already consider them to be. Shadowstep is placing him behind the rat... Thats the target. "Working as intended" ^^ This took one HELL of a lot of planning, talent and patience to pull off.  He should get a special achievement. ^^

.... Okay, let's all remember to breathe.  In through the nose... hold... out through the mouth.  Again, in through the nose... hold... out through the mouth.

Much better !  Now, just delete Rogues and be done with the topic.

reminded me of my wow vanillia days where all hunters attempted to solo rattlegore in Scholomance.. I achieved it yay! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjt2dnYyVPY

Originally posted by PhelimReagh

I guess it's an impressive accomplishment.

 

But if I get to a point in my life where I say to myself "I want to sit at a computer screen, exploit a bug in a video game that enables me to engage in a repetitive behavior, pissing into a jar (or worse), for 5 hours, just so I can say that I did it", I hope someone will do the humane thing and drown me in the bath first.

 

I really don't see the appeal in doing this. Yes it's unique, but so are people attach their pierced body parts from hooks and hang from them. Both seem equally as sensible.

 I like my MMO's but I think you have hit the nail on the head. I choose life.

Is it an accomplishment? Not in my book. It's more like a sad sort of thing to me that someone wasted 4h45m of thier life exploiting game mechanics doing something no one else would even bother to do. I wonder how much more time he wasted figuring out how to do this because you know this isn't a first try sort of thing.

This reminds me of my nephew bragging about how he'd gotten to 10k whatever they call those xbox360 points. Meanwhile he can't cut it in regular public school so they sent him to VoTech and he's even having a hard time there just trying to put flower arraingments together....but I'm the asshole for pointing out that if he'd put all that energy he did into getting to 10k into studying that he might be back in regular high school and an A student.....whatever. I guess I'm just getting too old to see things like this as accomplishments.

Is it worth bragging about though? I'll concede, now that it's been done sure it is. I still don't see this as something to congratulate the guy about though but hey that's just me.