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News & Features Discussion  » Dark Age of Camelot: What if... Dark Age of Camelot 2

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264 posts found
  Scorch6744

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/06
Posts: 1

5/10/10 2:29:15 PM#41

While I only played DAOC for about a year shortly after launch this part really jumped out at me as something that I've known has been missing from MMO's these days but which I never could articulate until reading,

"In DAOC, not only did I know the top enemies I fought, I could tell you their names even today. This sort of thing is completely missing in MMOs today, having a sense of fame among your faction and even your enemies. Forget about a statue in town, people just want bragging rights. Another thing that benefited DAOC was keeping the servers small. Having the server numbers max out at five or ten thousand with three factions would mean only two to three thousand in a realm. The smaller numbers would give players a better social atmosphere to get to know each other."

 

So true.  I was very active in Asheron's call for a number of years and remember my time on Darktide (PvP server) well especially when I was a lower level character.  Given the fact that there were essentially no safe zones and you could be killed at any time some PK'ers (guys whod attack pretty much anybody they saw on sight) amassed some really infamous reputations in certain regions where they'd prowl for victims.  It was probably almost ten years ago and I must've been 12 or 13 at the oldest but I still remember the fear I'd feel when I'd see some of those players pop up on my radar and I fled in desperation for the safety of a level capped newb dungeon or tried to make it off to the woods before they noticed me.  I still remember the big names, Og, Fury of Napa Valley, Bill the Hill... man those were the days.  We used to have epic battles between the PK guilds and the anti-PK guilds made all the more exciting by fighting familiar enemies and nemesis' alongside your allies and clan mates.

  FreddyNoNose

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/05
Posts: 1564

5/10/10 2:30:44 PM#42
Originally posted by Torak

Totally disagree with the article. DAoC does NOT need a sequel, it needs a graphic / tech upgrade which is doable. Sequels have a HORRIBLE MMO track record

Fans do not want a new game, they want the old game with improvements and upgrades. EVE and City of Heroes are perfect examples of this. That has been made clear so many times it's not funny, only the MMO nomads want brand new sequels so they can rip them to pieces.

DAoC is made with Gamebryo engine, the newer versions of this engine have been used to make Fallout 3, Warhammer and Oblivion.

A new game would be corrupted by todays market expectations and nothing good will come of it. 

 

Upgrading DAoC would cost a fraction of a new title.

 

MMOs and sequels just don't work out that well. In the end we will end up with a buffoon game like Warhammer.

 Have to agree with this 100%.  DOAC would be a goofball game when all it needs is to be modernized.  Can you imagine how bad an EVE2 would be?  CO was pretty much the COX 2 and look at how badly people responded to that.

  Vinterkrig

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/22/07
Posts: 1713

5/10/10 2:32:49 PM#43

realm pride is a myth, get over it... its a video game

i've played 8 man squads on all 3 realms, i could care less what realm I played in as long as my squad wrecked face

  brostyn

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/04
Posts: 3120

Cynical? Me? Never.

5/10/10 2:33:49 PM#44
Originally posted by Coldren

Good article.

However, I have to agree with the previous statements that a true DAoC sequel will never be done, because it can't survive in the modern MMO space.

You spoke of Warhammer's attempt to be more like WoW, and therein lies the issue. The majority of modern MMO players expect MMO's to be like WoW in 2 key areas - Community and PvE.

I don't agree at all. Most of us are not saying we don't think it will survive. DAoC 2 done right would flourish. DAoC made like WoW will fail, because there already is a WoW, and many games like it. Sadly, that is the only game that devs are willing to make, atm.

I'm not sure what the majority of MMO players want. I'm not one. I loved DAoC, and that put me into a minority(one that would meet or beat LOTRO sub numbers and crush others besides EVE). I do know we need community and balanced PVP that doesn't require raiding.

 

  newbinator

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/05/04
Posts: 781

5/10/10 2:37:16 PM#45

Man, don't get my hopes up like this. I absolutely loved DAOC. It was my favorite game for a good 2-3 years.

  Bioturn

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/05
Posts: 21

You only live once, so live like you have a million life times.

5/10/10 2:39:06 PM#46
Originally posted by Garvon3

I would love a DAoC 2, that returned to its roots. 

 

Sadly, Mythic has proven dozens of times over the past 5 years that they are simply incapable of returning to the roots that made it great. They keep piling more junk to fix the initial junk, and bury themselves with it. They don't KNOW what made the old game great it seems. I can almost promise DAOC 2 would be a giant mess, removing core ideas, and putting in WoW ideas. Hell, they already did that to original DAoC. 

 

The stupid archery system, RAMPS in castles, putting in a quest grind with glowing ! over NPC heads, destroying immersion and group cohesiveness, instancing the hell out of everything, again destroying the social side of PvE, too many battlegrounds, breaking the balance with every expansion so that people would buy it to play the new overpowered class, removing tanks from being viable, adding teleporters EVERYWHERE, added a /map,  I'm shocked at just how many bad ideas started flowing like water after the Trials of Atlantis expansion.

 

If they just rewound DAoC to the Shrouded Isles days, gave it a new coat of paint, polished up the leveling, added in public quests, tightened up the battlegrounds, removed /map (like it was at launch), removed all the teleporters, putting back in the necklace ceremony, improving upon the naval combat aspect, that'd be sequel worthy. 

 

Two things I felt were subtle, but great things in DAoC, both involve combat.

 

When you were in a good group, you KNEW it. In a decent group, you could of course, pull higher level monsters for more loot and experience, and handle a few of them. 

GREAT groups, you could almost nonstop pull WAVES of purple+++ monsters and kill them with ease. You truly felt unstoppable, because you were mowing these baddies down so quickly, and the exp ran in rivers. 

 

And the combat in that game, it was KINETIC. You had to be right up against your opponent to hit him, none of this, stand 10 feet away and melee the air stuff in LotRO and other modern MMOs. Your sword would actually look like it hit your enemy, the enemy would flinch, or it'd do a block animation. The recoil and animations were good enough that it almost didn't seem auto attack based, especially with the quick reactionary chains. 

 

So, while you were mowing down this large group of monsters, you really felt like you were smashing them. 

A few more things, when items dropped on the ground, they displayed in the world (same for decorating your house) so if the mob dropped a sword, there it was shiny on the ground. 

 

DAoC supported a healthy balance for those who liked PvE, crafting, AND PvP. Raiding was done as recreational fun usually, not a second job, cause most people were concerned with the frontier, and items gotten from raids weren't game changing, cause you could get comparable items from crafters, the crafted items just didn't glow and sparkle. 

 

I just KNOW if Mythic got their hands on DAoC too they'd make it a WoW knock off, a game with some instanced PvP, and not a virtual world like DAoC was. The vistas and atmosphere in Albion were so immersive. I know Mythic would add in junk like quest hubs, people standing around with big ! over their head, tellilng you exactly what your reward is gonna be in a cute little box, add in some silly xbox live achievement system that doesn't tie in with the lore at all, break the world into a series of linear instances, bleck. 

 

And for those that want to know what killed DAoC... 

 

/level 20 command for anyone with a level 50, killing the incoming newb population who had no one to group with, and bloated the battlegrounds. 

ToA killed off endless amounts of PvPers who didn't want to grind another 9 months to get gear to compete in RvR, after going through the 1-50 grind. 

And the ToA gear shifted balance to the caster classes and made it impossible to survive as anything else. 

Umm, dude, look at the italics underlined part, and do a face-palm, please? Mythic is the company that MADE DAoC! It's just that the team has changed since the early years. If the old crew were to make a new DAoC with a different name, under a different company, then I'm sure that we would have what everyone these days likes to call "WoW-Killer".

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

5/10/10 2:41:31 PM#47
Originally posted by Bioturn
Originally posted by Garvon3

I would love a DAoC 2, that returned to its roots. 

 

Sadly, Mythic has proven dozens of times over the past 5 years that they are simply incapable of returning to the roots that made it great. They keep piling more junk to fix the initial junk, and bury themselves with it. They don't KNOW what made the old game great it seems. I can almost promise DAOC 2 would be a giant mess, removing core ideas, and putting in WoW ideas. Hell, they already did that to original DAoC. 

 

The stupid archery system, RAMPS in castles, putting in a quest grind with glowing ! over NPC heads, destroying immersion and group cohesiveness, instancing the hell out of everything, again destroying the social side of PvE, too many battlegrounds, breaking the balance with every expansion so that people would buy it to play the new overpowered class, removing tanks from being viable, adding teleporters EVERYWHERE, added a /map,  I'm shocked at just how many bad ideas started flowing like water after the Trials of Atlantis expansion.

 

If they just rewound DAoC to the Shrouded Isles days, gave it a new coat of paint, polished up the leveling, added in public quests, tightened up the battlegrounds, removed /map (like it was at launch), removed all the teleporters, putting back in the necklace ceremony, improving upon the naval combat aspect, that'd be sequel worthy. 

 

Two things I felt were subtle, but great things in DAoC, both involve combat.

 

When you were in a good group, you KNEW it. In a decent group, you could of course, pull higher level monsters for more loot and experience, and handle a few of them. 

GREAT groups, you could almost nonstop pull WAVES of purple+++ monsters and kill them with ease. You truly felt unstoppable, because you were mowing these baddies down so quickly, and the exp ran in rivers. 

 

And the combat in that game, it was KINETIC. You had to be right up against your opponent to hit him, none of this, stand 10 feet away and melee the air stuff in LotRO and other modern MMOs. Your sword would actually look like it hit your enemy, the enemy would flinch, or it'd do a block animation. The recoil and animations were good enough that it almost didn't seem auto attack based, especially with the quick reactionary chains. 

 

So, while you were mowing down this large group of monsters, you really felt like you were smashing them. 

A few more things, when items dropped on the ground, they displayed in the world (same for decorating your house) so if the mob dropped a sword, there it was shiny on the ground. 

 

DAoC supported a healthy balance for those who liked PvE, crafting, AND PvP. Raiding was done as recreational fun usually, not a second job, cause most people were concerned with the frontier, and items gotten from raids weren't game changing, cause you could get comparable items from crafters, the crafted items just didn't glow and sparkle. 

 

I just KNOW if Mythic got their hands on DAoC too they'd make it a WoW knock off, a game with some instanced PvP, and not a virtual world like DAoC was. The vistas and atmosphere in Albion were so immersive. I know Mythic would add in junk like quest hubs, people standing around with big ! over their head, tellilng you exactly what your reward is gonna be in a cute little box, add in some silly xbox live achievement system that doesn't tie in with the lore at all, break the world into a series of linear instances, bleck. 

 

And for those that want to know what killed DAoC... 

 

/level 20 command for anyone with a level 50, killing the incoming newb population who had no one to group with, and bloated the battlegrounds. 

ToA killed off endless amounts of PvPers who didn't want to grind another 9 months to get gear to compete in RvR, after going through the 1-50 grind. 

And the ToA gear shifted balance to the caster classes and made it impossible to survive as anything else. 

Umm, dude, look at the italics underlined part, and do a face-palm, please? Mythic is the company that MADE DAoC! It's just that the team has changed since the early years. If the old crew were to make a new DAoC with a different name, under a different company, then I'm sure that we would have what everyone these days likes to call "WoW-Killer".

Mythic is also the company that killed DAoC. Then killed it again. And again. And again. Sorry, I don't trust them to make a proper sequel, they'd WoW it up. 

And no, realm pride is not a myth, sorry if you're an exception. 

  newbinator

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/05/04
Posts: 781

5/10/10 2:53:13 PM#48
Originally posted by Vinterkrig

realm pride is a myth, get over it... its a video game

i've played 8 man squads on all 3 realms, i could care less what realm I played in as long as my squad wrecked face

 

 

What applies to you must certainly be true for everyone else.

 

  newbinator

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/05/04
Posts: 781

5/10/10 2:53:55 PM#49

P.S. - Viva La Hibernia!

  socialstatus

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/10
Posts: 72

Everyone imposes his own system as far as his army can reach.

5/10/10 2:55:21 PM#50

Great article, and I agree DAOC's RvR was amazing hopefully they make DAOC 2 :D

Playing: Ever quest 2
Played: MS,GW,EVE,LOTRO,WoW,Allods,Aion, CO,CoH,CoV,TQ Digital games, Darkfall,AoC,RS2.
Liked: Dungeon fight online, GW, Darkfall and, Runescape.
Waiting for: Link Realms(can't get my damn beta invite) KOTOR and, GW2

  mackdawg19

Tipster

Joined: 5/28/07
Posts: 868

"If men were created equal, then what happened to game developers?"

5/10/10 3:10:35 PM#51
Originally posted by brostyn


I was an avid DAoC player, and I absolutely did quit due to ToA. One week after ToA I hit the cancel button. It was buggy, and it brought raiding into DAoC. The reason I left EQ!!

DAoC 2? It will never happen. Mythic is about as close to death as a studio can be. None of the original talent is there. Not that I would even trust the original team after the debacles of ToA and Labyrinth. Even if they started development I agree with Torak. We saw what happened with WAR. They would just try to WoW it up instead of sticking to what made DAoC great; community. Just look at WAR. They are still fumbling around trying to make it easier, instead of looking for ways to bring players together.

Focus on a game that builds community instead of making a game where one can get to max level as quickly and easily as possible. DAoC had that at one point.

 

DaoC had raiding before ToA was released. ToA didn't discourage me, in fact I liked the expansion. The expansion that burned me was SI. It was what my guild called the land of waste. Nobody went there, and when they did it was just to PL people. All the dungeons in SI were horrid and half of them had respawn rates nobody in the guild wanted to deal with. What I love and still love to this day about DaoC, is the way they designed there dungeons. Public dungeons are the best way to implement dungeons. DaoC dungeons were public and huge. I could walk into any dungeon and find a farming party. It was like they were all laid out like DF but without the other side taking over and no seals. Fun stuff and it allowed you to meet with new people. Housing and crafting to an extent was also done pretty well.

  Striefer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/06
Posts: 58

5/10/10 3:18:50 PM#52
Originally posted by mackdawg19
Originally posted by brostyn


I was an avid DAoC player, and I absolutely did quit due to ToA. One week after ToA I hit the cancel button. It was buggy, and it brought raiding into DAoC. The reason I left EQ!!

DAoC 2? It will never happen. Mythic is about as close to death as a studio can be. None of the original talent is there. Not that I would even trust the original team after the debacles of ToA and Labyrinth. Even if they started development I agree with Torak. We saw what happened with WAR. They would just try to WoW it up instead of sticking to what made DAoC great; community. Just look at WAR. They are still fumbling around trying to make it easier, instead of looking for ways to bring players together.

Focus on a game that builds community instead of making a game where one can get to max level as quickly and easily as possible. DAoC had that at one point.

 

DaoC had raiding before ToA was released. ToA didn't discourage me, in fact I liked the expansion. The expansion that burned me was SI. It was what my guild called the land of waste. Nobody went there, and when they did it was just to PL people. All the dungeons in SI were horrid and half of them had respawn rates nobody in the guild wanted to deal with. What I love and still love to this day about DaoC, is the way they designed there dungeons. Public dungeons are the best way to implement dungeons. DaoC dungeons were public and huge. I could walk into any dungeon and find a farming party. It was like they were all laid out like DF but without the other side taking over and no seals. Fun stuff and it allowed you to meet with new people. Housing and crafting to an extent was also done pretty well.

I agree, I'm so sick of instanced dungeons. It makes you dependant on finding a party before you head there. With it non-instanced you can meet people there and join their team. It also makes it feel a lot more alive and part of the game world.

I honestly just want a copy and paste of the original game, just modernized lol

  Telff

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/10
Posts: 1

5/10/10 3:28:54 PM#53

Going to have to agree, I would love a DAOC sequel.. Or an upgrade at the least.. Or at least have them advertise it again because we need more people!! Also, from what I've seen, DAOC is going back up again.. I wish it would reach a population larger than WoW.. For me, WoW seemed good but when I tried it, and comparing to DAOC.. I hated it so much.. :s; DAOC so far for me has been the ONLY good MMO with PVP that could keep me playing for more than 2months straight.. I wish Mythic didn't sell to EA.. =/

  brostyn

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/04
Posts: 3120

Cynical? Me? Never.

5/10/10 3:34:42 PM#54
Originally posted by mackdawg19
Originally posted by brostyn


I was an avid DAoC player, and I absolutely did quit due to ToA. One week after ToA I hit the cancel button. It was buggy, and it brought raiding into DAoC. The reason I left EQ!!

DAoC 2? It will never happen. Mythic is about as close to death as a studio can be. None of the original talent is there. Not that I would even trust the original team after the debacles of ToA and Labyrinth. Even if they started development I agree with Torak. We saw what happened with WAR. They would just try to WoW it up instead of sticking to what made DAoC great; community. Just look at WAR. They are still fumbling around trying to make it easier, instead of looking for ways to bring players together.

Focus on a game that builds community instead of making a game where one can get to max level as quickly and easily as possible. DAoC had that at one point.

 

DaoC had raiding before ToA was released. ToA didn't discourage me, in fact I liked the expansion. The expansion that burned me was SI. It was what my guild called the land of waste. Nobody went there, and when they did it was just to PL people. All the dungeons in SI were horrid and half of them had respawn rates nobody in the guild wanted to deal with. What I love and still love to this day about DaoC, is the way they designed there dungeons. Public dungeons are the best way to implement dungeons. DaoC dungeons were public and huge. I could walk into any dungeon and find a farming party. It was like they were all laid out like DF but without the other side taking over and no seals. Fun stuff and it allowed you to meet with new people. Housing and crafting to an extent was also done pretty well.

You're right. I didn't participate in them, and they weren't required for progression. In no way did not raiding hinder one's performance in RvR until ToA.

  Vinterkrig

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/22/07
Posts: 1713

5/10/10 3:58:47 PM#55
Originally posted by newbinator
Originally posted by Vinterkrig

realm pride is a myth, get over it... its a video game

i've played 8 man squads on all 3 realms, i could care less what realm I played in as long as my squad wrecked face

 

 

What applies to you must certainly be true for everyone else.

 

 

pride for something that isn't real? cool story bro

  yayitsandy

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/07
Posts: 372

5/10/10 4:00:45 PM#56

I'd proberbly play it by game card but not by giving my credit card details .

  Talin

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 825

You only live once... make it count!

5/10/10 4:04:55 PM#57

Let's keep the enthusiasm going on this one. I think this could really be a success if they did the following:

  • Pulled a 'Cataclysm' on DAOC, changing the look/content of some of the historical zones
  • Reverted back to the original DAOC landmass to consolidate the playerbase and "re-release" some of them as later expansions with new looks/functions
  • Allowed players to actually go (at least partially) into other lands and battle players (and not just the battleground); I don't recall if this was ever implemented
  • Revamped the engine to a more modern look (not I did not say replace)
  • Update the GUI
  • Re-balance classes (good luck!) with a drastic decrease in CC
  • Make the dungeons provide much better loot than the instanced/solo dungeons (or at least the chance for much better loot) to promote grouping again, or just have a few at specific level ranges and not scale as well as the existing ones do.
  • Add public quests - and not only combat-based ones! Why hasn't someone made a public quest that requires on-the-spot crafting, like a PQ about a dam that springs a leak (every 20 minutes, go figure) and the players have to gather items, craft the logs (using actual craft skills), the supports, etc, and repair the dam. Or something comparable.
  • Add in some non-combat social avenues. Very few (if any) MMOs have done this well. Add in the ability to gamble (with computer and/or players), lotto, contests with in-game voting, darts, etc etc.
  Laughing-man

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3388

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

5/10/10 4:07:20 PM#58
As one of the ex DAoC players who has read this article I would just like to say. Yes, YES YES YES PLEASE YES! (I would play DAoC2 in a heartbeat if they managed to keep the RVR balanced and never threw in ToA.) Such a fantastic Idea, I really hope someone throws this thread at some Mythic employees so they can show their bosses there is a huge amount of interest in this. Keep it up folks!
  AKASlaphappy

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/06
Posts: 812

5/10/10 4:08:44 PM#59

I agree with all the posters in this thread that said there will not be a DAOC2, it would be DAOC mixed with WOW  (just like WAR). The gaming industry has changed, from the times when we were the core that the gaming industry went after. I honestly do not know one person (that is a friend or I have meet traveling) in my age bracket late 20 early 30s that plays a AAA MMO. Most play niche MMOs or have went back to single player games, Yes at one time they all had played WoW for years. I would love to see a game like DAOC again come to life and be successful. Unfortantly when I look at gaming it is not what the vast majority are looking at right now. Games now days focus on the shiny, the new sword and armor and the new cool graphics. When at one time that was just a single asspect of gaming! When you look back at the games you are fond of from your past, like Pitfall for the Atari, or Final Fantasy 1 or 2; Batttletoads; Metroid; Legend of Zelda for the Nes, or even final fantasy 7 for the playstation. I am betting that those memories just do not center on getting the new sword or armor for your character (although for a certain percentage of the population it does). There was more involved in those games then just getting a cool new sword for Link or Cloud. There was the challenge, the thrill of victory and the great story. There was the moments that made you happy and made you sad that you can see in your mind when you think of final fantasy 7. Or the thrill of defeating Ganon for the first time in Zelda. All of these moments are being boiled down to the loot drop in games now. I would love to get my hands on the coding for WoW for a week and change one sever so no items drop in any instance or raid and see how many people actually do them. Change it so that you get the items from crafting vendors like guild wars that just have items you get from killing mobs around the world. I wonder how many raiding guilds in WOW would raid with out the shiny in there to make them come to the instance. Since that aspect of gaming was so successful with WoW and Diablo it seems like all of gaming is trying to get a piece of that pie. The days of games being made with a diverse center, is slowly fading to memory.

 

I am not bashing the people that like collecting in games and play games for that aspect. I am happy you like that, it is just sad to me that is what gaming has adopted at its center for its whole reason to exist. I can not count 10 games in the last 5 years that have all the aspects that made Final Fantasy great. Or gave me the found memories of Battletoads or Double Dragon. In the end it is the reason why I get burnt out on MMOs and bounce from one game to another, it is all about the shiny. So while I look forward to the day when another game like DAOC where the shiny is not the main point to come out, I do not see it happening anytime soon.

  Laughing-man

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3388

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

5/10/10 4:12:54 PM#60
I just wanted to point out that something a lot of folks seem to think is unpopular. "Collecting" or how ever you want to put it. Making your house look really fancy with things you have gathered ect. Farmville is mostly a lot of exactly that, collecting, and it is extremely successful. You don't build your farm just to make more farmville stuff, you do it to make your farm look cool too. Clearly there is SOME demand for that aspect in a game, the problem is I don't think its been introduced into a game properly in a long time. Edit: I personally really enjoy it so I might be jaded, I loved collecting the dragon heads for my house in DAOC.
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